I think the pop up retail is a cool idea and seems to be pretty successful in that spot but it’s also somewhat concerning that such a prominent spot can’t find a permanent tenant but all the new projects continue to add more retail spaces ...

^^^^^^ this is so correct!  One of the busiest corners in downtown CLE can't find a tenant.  And there is so much more vacant space on the way as these new apartments open. Lumen will have space, Halle has open space, Statler, Athlon, Euclid Grand, and on and on and on....plus May CO.

1 hour ago, mack34 said:

^^^^^^ this is so correct!  One of the busiest corners in downtown CLE can't find a tenant.  And there is so much more vacant space on the way as these new apartments open. Lumen will have space, Halle has open space, Statler, Athlon, Euclid Grand, and on and on and on....plus May CO.

I think this is a fair question, cant find or can negotiate for a tenant?

 

This is not shade or me being condescending, but unless one of us on this board is at the table, this is speculation and what I've constantly called out in other threads, negative bias.

 

Are we aware if the landlord wants to lease the space right now? [not every landlord wants to rent their space for some unknown reason]

What are the requirements of said lease?

Could the landlord be looking for a specific tenant category?

Could the landlord be looking for a specific tenant to mesh with neighboring tenants and the building?

Could potential tenants put forth proposals that don't meet the community, financial, etc. needs of the landlord?

 

Its very easy to say X, Y & Z, but what is the real deal?

 

As I've said in other threads, it's dangerous to speculate, when we don't know all the facts.  I MORE THAN ANYONE want to see stable and needed retail on downtown streets.

 

Having said all of the above, does anyone have and knowledge as why the space is vacant?

2 hours ago, mack34 said:

^^^^^^ this is so correct!  One of the busiest corners in downtown CLE can't find a tenant.  And there is so much more vacant space on the way as these new apartments open. Lumen will have space, Halle has open space, Statler, Athlon, Euclid Grand, and on and on and on....plus May CO.

And as you say, there are numerous high profile locations about to come on-line. With that in mind retailers have choice and can be choosy about location and leases/terms/rates.  

Since that spot became available March of 2016...they sure are being REALLY picky........

2 minutes ago, mack34 said:

Since that spot became available March of 2016...they sure are being REALLY picky........

 

How can you make that state with 100% accuracy that the problem is the Landlord?

 

Let put it at a personal level.  Say you bought a home with an income apartment.  A realtor tells you the space should rent for $925 month, no less than $900.  You may not need the rental income. 

 

You have a broker list the unit, but all the offers come in under $500 would you entertain, let alone negotiate a lease?

Any truth to a rumor with Granite City closing at Legacy this leaves the huge space along with closed Charming Charlie and Zgallerie for the Restoration Hardware Gallery Store???

I think Legacy has definitely found its niche in being a furniture destination. A larger RH there now would not surprise me.

so what do people think would be the best available space for a city target?

 

no doubt one is on the way soon enough.

18 minutes ago, mrnyc said:

so what do people think would be the best available space for a city target?

 

no doubt one is on the way soon enough.

Oh boy I hope  you know something.

 

Centennial Building.  Right in the middle of things and good synergy with Heinens across the street.

3 minutes ago, Htsguy said:

Oh boy I hope  you know something.

 

Centennial Building.  Right in the middle of things and good synergy with Heinens across the street.

The smaller Targets near me all have groceries. I'm not sure Heinens could survive corporate competition just yet. 

1 minute ago, surfohio said:

The smaller Targets near me all have groceries. I'm not sure Heinens could survive corporate competition just yet. 

But the selection at such Targets is limited is it not?  Ive never been impressed with them

no, no sorry, i do not have any intel on city target.

 

i just see them popping up everywhere we go. 

 

i think it's inevitable, might as well signal good spots for them somewhere downtown.

 

i didn't think of the grocery aspect though. yeah that is kind of a problem.

46 minutes ago, mrnyc said:

no, no sorry, i do not have any intel on city target.

 

i just see them popping up everywhere we go. 

 

i think it's inevitable, might as well signal good spots for them somewhere downtown.

 

i didn't think of the grocery aspect though. yeah that is kind of a problem.

 

the little Targets are not intended to be a full-service grocery stores, to say the least, but they do have basics like pasta, coffee, cereal, frozen vegetables and some fresh fruit, etc.. I go to the one in the east village all the time. It's open until midnight. One just opened up on  the Upper East Side on 3rd Ave & 70th St. 

1 minute ago, eastvillagedon said:

 

the little Targets are not intended to be a full-service grocery stores, to say the least, but they do have basics like pasta, coffee, cereal, frozen vegetables and some fresh fruit, etc.. I go to the one in the east village all the time. It's open until midnight. One just opened up on  the Upper East Side on 3rd Ave & 70th St. 

 

Have you been to the Heinen's downtown? (Not snarky, just a general question) I'm not sure, in my opinion, if it could handle any direct competition in terms of boxed groceries or produce in the direct vicinity

6 minutes ago, YABO713 said:

 

Have you been to the Heinen's downtown? (Not snarky, just a general question) I'm not sure, in my opinion, if it could handle any direct competition in terms of boxed groceries or produce in the direct vicinity

I don't really understand the comment. Heinen's is a full-service supermarket, although the downtown Cleveland one is more limited, I think (more prepared foods also, no?). The Target stores are not mainly for groceries. Why would Heinen's be threatened by that? (if that's what you meant) 

Edited November 4, 20195 yr by eastvillagedon

3 minutes ago, eastvillagedon said:

I don't really understand the comment. Heinen's is a full-service supermarket, although the downtown Cleveland one is more limited, I think (more prepared foods also, no?). The Target stores are not mainly for groceries. Why would Heinen's be threatened by that? (if that's what you meant) 

 

Because they're actual "regular groceries" section is rather tiny when compared to most Heinen's. That, combined with the location, makes their prices a bit higher than elsewhere. So, the people that shop there either:

 

A) Come for the prepared meals at lunch/dinner, or

 

B) Live nearby without less expensive options for cereal, apples, etc

1 minute ago, YABO713 said:

 

Because they're actual "regular groceries" section is rather tiny when compared to most Heinen's. That, combined with the location, makes their prices a bit higher than elsewhere. So, the people that shop there either:

 

A) Come for the prepared meals at lunch/dinner, or

 

B) Live nearby without less expensive options for cereal, apples, etc

I see. Yeah, the prices for "regular groceries" in the Target stores can be pretty cheap, and they always have sales on cereal, and a wide variety of packaged, sliced cheese, for example. A standard size brick of the store brand of cream cheese is $1.19 (that's exceptionally low for NYC), and a lot of younger people go there for beer! I don't think Henein's is known for bargain prices, is it?

12 minutes ago, eastvillagedon said:

I see. Yeah, the prices for "regular groceries" in the Target stores can be pretty cheap, and they always have sales on cereal, and a wide variety of packaged, sliced cheese, for example. A standard size brick of the store brand of cream cheese is $1.19 (that's exceptionally low for NYC), and a lot of younger people go there for beer! I don't think Henein's is known for bargain prices, is it?

 

No, by Cleveland standard its a step above Giant Eagle & Meijer and a step below Whole Foods

Not everyone shops on price... Far from it. Weekly, my wife and I shop Whole Foods, and Heinen's for our main food purchases, Target (since in there anyway for non-food stuff) for a few bottles and boxed products and Trader Joe's and Costco also 2-4x a month. We buy different things in each store based on assortment and preference or convenience, but very little is bought at one store over another based on cost. Not saying we don't and wouldn't, but would assume we are not alone.

Edited November 4, 20195 yr by eyehrtfood

5 minutes ago, YABO713 said:

 

No, by Cleveland standard its a step above Giant Eagle & Meijer and a step below Whole Foods

I personally find better prices at Heinen's than Giant Eagle routinely.   Giant Eagle is actually super expensive.  Someone needs to pay for those "Fuel Perks" 

The two CVSs in downtown stand to lose more to a nearby Target than Heinens. The downtown Heinens already shies away from the kinds of categories that Target dominates in by having a limited selection (e.g. TP, pet food), or carries a super-premium range that a Target, or CVS, would never carry (e.g. personal care)

In addition to the report in the CAC Building thread that a commercial building permit was filed for that retail space I noticed workers going into the 1110 Euclid building (the empty retail space on the East side of the building). Not sure if that means anything but see lights on inside.

^ That’s a cool space, with an old vault still installed in the back wall. Is there any old building on Euclid that wasn’t a bank back when? ?

I use to shop at Target for groceries when they first entered that market - both at Steelyards and at Cedar Center. I've generally stopped because they never have anything in stock. Not sure if its just those two stores, or if the issues have been remedied now (though doesn't seem like it the few times I looked in the past year) I don't see a downtown City Target being a huge grocery competitor to Heinen's. What kind of serious grocery doesn't even keep milk stocked? Also, I feel like the Steelyards is close enough that if downtown residents wanted to shop there for groceries instead of Heinen's, then they already would be. 

Did I miss something? Is a Target opening in Downtown? That's great if so---where will it be?  (If not, I was misled by the lengthly discussion on how Target will affect the Heinens Downtown. I know we love to speculate and pontificate here at UO!)

@Pugu sadly no... this was just a continuation of the ongoing speculation as to where City Target would go should it ever arrive ? 

^Oh, okay, that's disappointing---I was getting cautiously excited for a moment there.

According to the address listed here, Mr. Hero and Downtown Convenience (Currently at the base of the May Co. garage) are moving down into the empty spot in the Southworth Buidling, which I believe is next to a Subway interestingly. Unless that is an error ?‍♂️ Is Edible Arrangements still open?  I assume Bedrock is clearing out the Garage for the renovation.

 

Final Design Development Approval:

Project: DF2019-072: Mr. Hero | Downtown Convenience Signage

The proposed installation of new exterior signage Project Address: 2013 Ontario Street
Project Representative: George Dragon, Cicogna Sign Co

Edited November 9, 20195 yr by mrclifton88

On 11/4/2019 at 7:21 PM, mrclifton88 said:

@Pugu sadly no... this was just a continuation of the ongoing speculation as to where City Target would go should it ever arrive ? 

City Target....

I noticed that there is now a AMAZON HUB MACHINE inside the SAVE A LOT on CLARK Ave in Cleveland.

Was at Legacy Village today, the old Charming Charlie spot says something new coming soon, and the old Zgallerie spot says tempur-pedic coming 2020, so I guess no RH GALLERIE for that massive spot.

On 12/24/2019 at 12:58 PM, osu87 said:

Was at Legacy Village today, the old Charming Charlie spot says something new coming soon, and the old Zgallerie spot says tempur-pedic coming 2020, so I guess no RH GALLERIE for that massive spot.

 

I have been wondering about that  Unnamed spot, Since there’s so much into furniture I wonder if possibly a Casper store could be going there??

2 hours ago, osu87 said:

 

I have been wondering about that  Unnamed spot, Since there’s so much into furniture I wonder if possibly a Casper store could be going there??

 

I saw the sign you reference.. My guess is nothing is signed for the space and the quite  generic "something new is coming" sign is an optimistic outlook that something will end up there in the future - a month or a year or 5 years from now, nothing more. The departed Granite City and Charming Charlie, Z Gallerie and (soon closing) Pier 1 are all closing down some or all stores nationwode = Legacy has sone challenges - on top of a big, empty old Arhaus spot ("new tenant to be announced in 2019") and other years old vacancies... And the Tempur-Pedic store you reference should only take a fraction of the 6,000+ square foot former Z Gallerie.

 

On an interesting note, the chain Coldwater Creek went out of business a few years ago, including closing a Legacy store - but is making a comeback and will be opening one of their first new stores in the former Talbot's Mens location (a spot which may have been vacant for some 10+ years since Talbot's got rod of that part of their business...)

GGP should have did more in their 2006 renovation of Beachwood Place. Had they expanded it more and maybe extended the food court wing to add more space and maybe an anchor, they probably could have staved off the more recent expansion of Eton Collection, and the construction of Pinecrest. Now we have these four retail centers, five if you include University Square competing for the same businesses and shoppers. This is not GGP's fault of course. Just throwing that out there.

Baby Gap has closed in Beachwood Mall and Gap is having a store closing sale. That's quite a big space to lose for Beachwood.

Bed Bath & Beyond at Great Northern will be closing.

 

https://patch.com/ohio/westlake/bed-bath-beyond-closing-2-ohio-store-2020

 

 

A few retailers have left the 5th Street Arcades in recent months - Little Shop of Cookies, WhatKnot Ties, Savile Lane, and DaBoro's.

16 minutes ago, MayDay said:

A few retailers have left the 5th Street Arcades in recent months - Little Shop of Cookies, WhatKnot Ties, Savile Lane, and DaBoro's.

Let's be honest, besides the little shop of cookies and boutique stores, who actually buys the stuff in the 5th street arcades? I never see anyone in the shops except maybe Johnnyville Woods and even then I wonder how that guy stays afloat. The stuff in that arcade isn't stuff alot of people are looking to buy.

 

People can downvote me but it shows the mind boggling paradox of retail downtown. No one, including downtown residents, continue going out of their way to the suburbs to shop.

Edited January 16, 20205 yr by AsDustinFoxWouldSay

I would shop there when I lived Downtown.  It was nice for gifts, but there wasn't much in there for your day-to-days.  A lot of bricks and mortar stores are also selling online, and I bet a lot of the business for those places comes from their Etsy storefronts, not their 5th St. Arcade ones.

Savile Lane is actually still open, they are just by appointment only. They have another (main) location in Fairlawn. The vacant spaces will fill as they always do. The shops definitely cater to tourists and the business lunch crowd because that is who shops downtown at the moment. 

 

What a lot of people don't realize is that the building is intentionally designed to be a great place for small retail businesses to get a start. The square footage is relatively small and the rates are reportedly more than fair. Not to mention, every single business is locally owned and operated and you are normally talking to the owner when you walk in. What other city has an in-tact, historic, one of a kind shopping center that is entirely full of locally owned and operated businesses? It's a pretty remarkable place that is consistently overlooked in favor of the many larger shopping centers with recognizable brands that exist in the suburbs. 

 

I definitely agree that the variety of shops could be better, but it's just such a unique asset that adds to the historic charm of the city. There are also some great little shops and, in my opinion, the customer service at a local shop will always be better than what you get at larger stores. 

I think it was meant more as a retail incubator, as well.  So a certain amount of churn is to be expected and healthy.  The question is are these retailers moving up or shaking out?

For sure. I know a lot of the retailers have moved around in the building, which also makes it look like more turnover is occurring. The main anchors have been pretty consistent and seem to do well overall. The newest crop were mostly the people who kept weird hours, so I can’t say I’m surprised they ended up closing. I think some have also decided to focus on their online presence, which is definitely understandable. 

Abercrombie and Buckle also closed at Beachwood Place? How did I miss that.

 

Just terrible. 

 

And poor Gap, Baby Gap, Godiva and soon Pottery Barn. Jesus wept.

Edited January 19, 20205 yr by TBideon
Retail nightmare

Wow, this is starting off to be a pretty bad year for Beachwood Place. Every year I hope we will hear something big after the NRF conference of new stores coming, but every year lately has been silence (this year too it looks like, since its now come and gone). What is Brookfield doing? The last thing announced was that outdoor movie screen area/connection to La Place. That's too small scale, in my opinion, not to mention is was announced some time ago now, without any movement. They need to be thinking big. This should be a premier property still, especially with the anchors it has. Beachwood Place is still my preferred shopping center, especially in the winter, but even I'm starting to get sick of what Brookfield is (not) doing.

The old Hollister is a big fat empty space too. Plus whatever was above Victoria Secret. Plus whatever was next to Swarovski (I miss the Sony store).

 

And still no tenants at the two restaurants. 

 

Is Forever 21 leaving too? I'm shocked they're still open. 

 

Also, there's something very odd about how Akira was built and extends into that wing. Did it absorb another space but then close off the back areas? It does feel somewhat claustrophobic inside. 

 

Just to balance all of that, Nervous Dog is my favorite east side coffee shop (cest les vie Coffee Phix and Phoenix), and the staff are great kids. I hope it succeeds. 

Edited January 19, 20205 yr by TBideon

2 hours ago, PoshSteve said:

Wow, this is starting off to be a pretty bad year for Beachwood Place. Every year I hope we will hear something big after the NRF conference of new stores coming, but every year lately has been silence (this year too it looks like, since its now come and gone). What is Brookfield doing? The last thing announced was that outdoor movie screen area/connection to La Place. That's too small scale, in my opinion, not to mention is was announced some time ago now, without any movement. They need to be thinking big. This should be a premier property still, especially with the anchors it has. Beachwood Place is still my preferred shopping center, especially in the winter, but even I'm starting to get sick of what Brookfield is (not) doing.

Yea, I'd argue the decline at Beachwood is happening faster than the declines I've witnessed of Severance, Euclid, Randall and Richmond! Was there today and noticed Buckle and Abercrombie gone. The retail environment is one thing, but the more upscale places have been a bit more resilient. A little shocking for the highest end mall in the city and the only traditional mall to serve the bulk of the east side.

Was at Beachwood Place last (Sat) night 7-8 pm - and it was depressing. Few customers (made worse by teenager ban). Many recently vacant or soon-to-be stores. No visible effort by owner to do anything about it.

Beginning to worry about future of the anchors now.

 

This place needs pressure or offer of investment by Beachwood city, if anything, as they have much to lose. Mall needs a big jolt of re-development, big-name tenants, and a super-strong PR campaign to bring customers back. 

 

I remind myself that if Eton can go from a nearly vacant center to a seemingly strong, upscale center that has kept going 15 years in current form, then a stronger mall like Beachwood sure can turn it around. But they need a plan...

Edited January 20, 20205 yr by eyehrtfood

On the other hand, I went to Beachwood Place for the second time in my life last October and the first time since the 1980s. I went with my wife who was looking for a purse. She didn't find what she was looking for, so this second visit to Beachwood Place in my life ended without a purchase.

 

On the other hand, I've been to La Place, Legacy Village, Eton Collection, Pavilion and Pinecrest more often.

I’ve often wondered if things continue at this rate at Beachwood if Nordstrom or Saks would ever jump ship and move to the west side (like Crocker Park area) ...?  Maybe not a valid concern but always been a thought in my mind.