I never stated that you used those words, but that are some of the replies I've received on UrbanUp and on other sites, and in real-life when I've attended these meetings to and asked questions. These people aren't interested in debate, or in reality--

 

It's hard to show bemusement on the web, but you decided to accuse me of cutting off debate because of arguments you had on other websites, or at meetings you've attended?  Interesting.

 

People who don't understand how a free market or capitalism works are the ones who complain -- and if we are dealing with people who are undereducated or uneducated, then they will be suckered by groups claiming to be legitimate -- the Southern Poverty Law Center and the Homeless Coalition, who are feeding them with crap they don't need to hear.

 

But isn't the political "market" work on similar principles?  What's the matter with groups that don't want this to happen for whatever reason, organizing enough people to prevent it?  Wouldn't they have won in the same sense as someone in a competitive business environment?  Heck, the whole reason that Model is able to do this is because they and one other company were given special dispensation by Congress to do this.  That's probably a major factor in people's complaints.

 

Man, I need a new job.  I'm spending too much time on this forum.

 

 

Politics should never enter into the discussion of relocation of renters. They are not entitled to this unit, much like I'm not entitled to my apartment in OTR. If my complex became a condo, can I file for discrimination? Can I complain to HUD? Will the Poverty Law Center come to my assistance? Or am I not newsworthy enough?

 

It's hard to show bemusement on the web, but you decided to accuse me of cutting off debate because of arguments you had on other websites, or at meetings you've attended?  Interesting.

 

No, this statement you made below is typical for individuals who do not care to debate or want to debate with false and misleading statements, used only to encourage uncivil discourse and rhetoric.

 

The fact is is that most people don't actually want their neighborhood to be diverse.

 

It's the same garbage -- unsubstantiated and unproven nonsense, that the Poverty Law Center and the Homeless Coalition uses to spread the blame around. You cannot realistically prove that charging statement, and you have no intention of doing so, and you're only rationale for providing that is to either be confrontational, to engage in a conversation that you suspect will trip up anyone who opposes it, or that you truly believe that no one wants to be in a diverse neighborhood.

 

Now, can we stick with the facts instead of this rhetoric?

My whole point is that it seems it would have been better to use one of the many empty buildings or surface lots for this project that currently exist in the area.  That's been pretty explicit in every one of my posts.

 

I think that depends largely on the condition of the Metropole vs the comparison buildings, the historic significance of each, and whether having tenants is causing the Metropole to fall into disrepair faster than nearby vacant buildings.  But that's without taking into consideration what the new buyer actually wants.  Of course 21c is interested in a building that A) is a former hotel, B) has a facade that is loaded with historic character (though I imagine any of charm of the interior is long gone, so renovation will be easier), C) is directly across the street from the Aronoff, and D) is adjacent to both the CAC and restaurants/bars.  It's a perfect location for the type of business they intend to open. 

 

So from a "what's good for the CBD" perspective, you may have a point.  But what matters most is what's good for the people actually footing the bill, 21c.  If the property is available and they want to redevelop it, I'm all for that.  In a perfect world I might prefer to see another building get some love instead, but it's also entirely possible that if the Metropole wasn't available, 21c wouldn't be interested in being downtown at all.  It's not quite as simple as saying "they should be using one of the buildings a block away".  They had that option and chose not to pursue it.  I'm just happy to see investment downtown.

 

I also agree that affordable housing is needed, but I believe that this affordable housing should still be a clean, safe place to live.  That doesn't sound like Sherman's description of the current conditions at the Metropole.

What about the prejudice against Italians here? Trattoria Roma will have to move and noone is talking about this.

The Homeless Coalition and the Poverty Law Center doesn't care!

 

You'll be hearing news regarding that restaurant and the nightclub eventually on where they could be relocated to. 3CDC is currently working with them to stay somewhere on the popular Walnut Street corridor...

^They could always move to Gateway Quarter.  :)

 

 

I've stayed out of this, and will continue to do so, but the one factor that remains a constant here is the rapidly deteriorating state of the building.  It is a mess, it will get worse, and the prior owner was never going to do anything about it.  Expecting 3CDC to buy it and maintain it, fix it, and continue with the current use is contrary to 3CDC's raison d'etre.  Not going to happen.  And did you see anyone else knocking down the doors to buy that dump for 6.25 million??  There were not a lot of options here.  It would continue to deteriorate until condemned or worse.  All squatting in the midst of a glittering example of urban renewal.  I don't argue that there isn't a place downtown for SRO's, but this was not the best for either side, and it would only get worse for the tenants as the owner skated by with the bare minimum necessary to keep the doors open and the rent checks coming in.

 

And I will leave you with this anecdote--doesn't anyone recall a few years back how someone fell through the floor/ceiling of an apartment onto a table at Roma?  Nice.

Mr. Sushi, soon to open on the ground floor of the 580 Building, could use neighbors. It'd be great to see Trattoria Roma stay in the vicinity.

Mr. Sushi, soon to open on the ground floor of the 580 Building, could use neighbors. It'd be great to see Trattoria Roma stay in the vicinity.

 

Not sure what is happening with the Terrace Hotel, but the Mejanna space is available.

I thought Mr. Sushi was going to have a traditional Korean/Japanese fare?

And I will leave you with this anecdote--doesn't anyone recall a few years back how someone fell through the floor/ceiling of an apartment onto a table at Roma? Nice.

 

This is the kind of anecdotal information I needed in order to support the redevelopment of the Metropole.  Thank you for that.

>I would also suggest that how we treat the worst among us tells us a lot about what we value.

 

The Dean likes to use the phrase "least amongst us".  It's designed to shut down debate.  

 

 

>I don't know any of these people or what they may or may not have done.  Do you have any evidence to support your claim?

 

Yes.

 

 

I'm not the Dean and i'm not trying to shut down debate.  I do believe in due process that is applied equally across the board.

 

 

This thing isn't really "free market" since 3CDC is a quasi-governmental non-profit group.

This thing isn't really "free market" since 3CDC is a quasi-governmental non-profit group.

 

"3CDC IS A PRIVATE, NON-PROFIT CORPORATION FORMED IN JULY 2003 AS PART OF THE OVERALL SYSTEM TO INCREASE THE EFFECTIVENESS AND EFFICIENCY OF DEVELOPMENT ACTIVITIES IN THE CITY OF CINCINNATI." (caps from their site, not my emphasis)

 

"The formation of 3CDC was recommended by a City of Cincinnati Economic Development Task Force. Its operations are funded privately, through business contributions as well as support from foundations and other philanthropic sources. 3CDC works collaboratively with its corporate partners as well as the City of Cincinnati and the state of Ohio."

 

"3CDC's operations are funded privately, primarily through contributions from local corporations and civic institutions. 3CDC also manages the Cincinnati Equity Fund (CEF) and the Cincinnati New Markets Fund (CNMF). These two private investment funds play an important role by providing financial support for development projects."

 

Can you detail what you mean, diaspora? I'm not seeing that anywhere.

3CDC is formed on the recommendation of the City, operates many sites that are owned by the City, receives relief in tax abatement from the city, etc.

 

Don't worry, i don't dislike 3CDC and i think they're doing a great job in places like Fountain Square, OTR and Findlay Market...but i don't think that i'd call what they do the picture of "free market capitalism" or anything.

Would you consider the countless other entities that receive tax abatements and tax-increment financing to fall within the quasi-governmental umbrella?

 

In explaining the free market, I have stated that I'm not in support of a full free market/capitalistic society, but that I'm not in support of a full socialistic society. I'm kind of with Lou Dobbs on this (before he went batshit crazy on immigration).

You guys need to create another thread about this. My new post link keeps lighting up and it's the same thing back and forth on capitalism and socialism.

we're done now, as we essentially agree on all but semantics.

we're done now, as we essentially agree on all but semantics.

 

3CDC is not a public entity. Let's all agree to concede facts, especially when they are well-supported. Threads that go on because people just want to get the last word just tease everyone else.

Boutique hotels coming to Cincinnati

Developers are celebrating the deal to bring 21c to city

 

For starters, there are the giant penguins.

 

At 21c Museum Hotel in Louisville, the recycled plastic statues are perched everywhere - a nod from an Italian team of artists to the globe's endangered Galapagos species.

 

But the precariously placed birds only hint at what sets 21c apart from your typical hotel stay.

 

Ranked No. 1 in the nation and No. 6 in the world in Conde Nast Traveler's prestigious 2009 Readers' Choice Awards, the 21c concept is coming to Cincinnati in 2012.

 

 

cont.

This may have already been posted, but here is the 21c Cincinnati webpage, with renderings:

 

Cincinnati

 

I like the way they are using Gano Alley (I think thats it) for a sidewalk cafe.  Nice. 

 

And the penguins are there, too, in yellow instead of red.

Unfortunatly, I notice they are using that "Proof on Main" brand for the bar/restaurant.  That name was a specific allusion to the Louisville distilling industry and the industries location, at one time, on Main Street (and to the source of one of the owners' fortune).

 

I'd like it if they chose something more specific  or related to Cincinnait, like, say "Soap  on Walnut". Or "Pig".  Or something like that.

Would you really go to a bar called Soap on Main?

Foam parties were so 2002.

This may have already been posted, but here is the 21c Cincinnati webpage, with renderings:

 

Cincinnati

 

I like the way they are using Gano Alley (I think thats it) for a sidewalk cafe.  Nice. 

 

And the penguins are there, too, in yellow instead of red.

 

Yellow or red? I don't think it's fair for 21C to just change important building features like this without going through some sort of review. Next thing we know the hotel will be complete and there will be lime green puffins on there! Completely unnacceptable. I think Cincinnatians need to stand up against this type of treatment by developers! Let's hold a rally! Maybe a tea party?

Foam parties were so 2002.

 

I suppose it's better than smelling like cheap beer or cigarettes.

The Metropole needs work

By Lisa Bernard-Kuhn, Cincinnati Enquirer | December 23, 2009

 

Eddie Beamon has already started packing.  In January, Beamon will move into his new one-bedroom apartment in a senior living community in Walnut Hills and out of the Metropole Apartments - a low-income housing complex in the heart of downtown's Backstage Entertainment District.  "I'm ready to go," says Beamon, 55, whose tiny efficiency unit lacks air conditioning and is only about 300 square feet. "(The Metropole) is an old building that needs a lot of work. It's time for me to move on."

 

Beamon is one of nearly 200 residents who will be relocated in the coming year as the 97-year-old Metropole undergoes a $48 million renovation. Plans call for Louisville-based 21c Museum Hotels to open a 160-room boutique hotel and contemporary arts venue at the site by 2012.

 

Read full article here:

http://news.cincinnati.com/article/20091223/BIZ01/912230375/1055/NEWS/Metropole++Some+ready+to+move+on

It's already a done deal, people are actively moving out now. What else are they expecting? More hand-outs or entitlements?

The news said the City participation passed the vote!  Bring on the hotel!

Metropole will get some public funding, it seems.  They're getting quite a bit, but I'd imagine the ROI will be spectacular.  This is a prime location.

 

---

 

Cincinnati council committee OK's funds for Metropole conversion

 

Developers who want to turn the Metropole low-income/senior apartments downtown into a boutique hotel will get help from city taxpayers - $2.5 million, plus up to $4.6 million more in loans.

 

A majority of Cincinnati City Council on Monday approved the funding request from 21cCincinnati Inc., a company that operates a similar hotel in Louisville. They did so over the objections from the Greater Cincinnati Coalition for the Homeless and tenants.

 

(More at: http://nky.cincinnati.com/article/AB/20100222/BIZ01/302220013/Funding+OK+ed+for+boutique+hotel)

The 21c sounds really cool.

It's already a done deal, people are actively moving out now. What else are they expecting? More hand-outs or entitlements?

 

I don't think anyone has asked for hand-outs or entitlements in this particular situation.  There have been organizations that have stated their concern for relocating the poor (nothing new) for a higher end use.  These are valid concerns and should be discussed.  Poor people need housing too, and we need to build our communities to supply housing and amenities for more than just the wealthy.

 

With that said, I think the things that are happened at the Metropole conversion are being done in the correct fashion, and I would love to hear that those residents who want to stay Downtown are able to somehow.

BTW, UrbanCincy writer Dave Rolfes went down to Louisville for a stay at the 21c Museum Hotel there, and got an exclusive interview with 21c Hotels CEO Michael Bonadies.  Lots of pictures included as well.

http://www.urbancincy.com/2010/02/glimpse-into-our-future-21c-hotel.html

HUD rejects complaint by Metropole tenants

Business Courier of Cincinnati - by Dan Monk Senior Staff Reporter

 

The U.S. Department of Housing and Urban Development has rejected a complaint by the Metropole Tenant Association that sought to halt the conversion of the low-income apartment property to an upscale hotel.

 

http://cincinnati.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/stories/2010/03/01/daily26.html

It's already a done deal, people are actively moving out now. What else are they expecting? More hand-outs or entitlements?

 

Poor people need housing too, and we need to build our communities to supply housing and amenities for more than just the wealthy.

 

Are you sure about that?  If that's true, then how do you explain the 20 million Americans who decided to go on unemployment when Obama got elected because they knew he'd be handing them welfare checks?

 

Seriously though, It seems like a great location that will really strengthen the area.  At least a couple of blocks downtown will be on crunk.

Poor people do have to live somewhere, but that doesn't necessarly mean affordable housing has to exist in places with extreme property values, or places where other uses could better contribute to society, or in the form of new construction. 

 

This location is far too prime to exist as such horribly conditioned apartments.  Anyways, with regards to this location specifically, it's a moot point.  3CDC owns the property and can do as they please with it.

Everyone had to expect the decision by HUD on this issue.  I can't see any legal wrongs that are being committed, and obviously neither can HUD.

 

This stretch of Walnut Street is going to be very special once the renovation is complete and 21c moves in.  Add in the possibility of closing off those alleys through there to auto traffic and making it an open-container entertainment district, and you really have something great.

Does anyone know what the details of the complaint are?  This seems pretty clear cut, much like the apartment to condo conversions that happened when the condo market was hot-- it is a privately owned building with renters and leases do not have to be renewed.  Is there some special circumstance regarding this building and subsidized rent where special rules apply?

 

It seems to me 3CDC is going above and beyond what is required of them.

I liked this comment on the Enquirer:

 

"They are RENTERS."

 

I couldn't agree more.

This stretch of Walnut Street is going to be very special once the renovation is complete and 21c moves in. Add in the possibility of closing off those alleys through there to auto traffic and making it an open-container entertainment district, and you really have something great.

 

That would really stick it to the current RENTERS in the Metropole.  "They kicked us out and now they made it open container?"

This stretch of Walnut Street is going to be very special once the renovation is complete and 21c moves in. Add in the possibility of closing off those alleys through there to auto traffic and making it an open-container entertainment district, and you really have something great.

 

Open containers is a bad idea anywhere downtown.  Too many people would abuse it.  That alley would be the new hang-out for the homeless 24/7 and the cops wouldnt be able to do anything about it.

Fountain Square does open container quite often and it seems to be a huge success.

...and these alleys have had open container events before.

Add in the possibility of closing off those alleys through there to auto traffic and making it an open-container entertainment district, and you really have something great.

Okay, wow. After looking at this block on Google Maps, I agree with you 1000%. Yes, that's one-thousand. CAC, Aronoff, and all those bars and clubs...total "no-brainer".

...and these alleys have had open container events before.

 

Touché my friend!

I liked this comment on the Enquirer:

 

"They are RENTERS."

 

I couldn't agree more.

 

Lol you're welcome

In August of 2008 I moved into the Metropole Apartments.  The walls were freshly painted and new carpet was on the floor.  The appliances were fairly new and clean.  I was fortunate enough to receive a one bedroom unit and considered myself lucky to have a decent place to live at an affordable price.

 

Honestly, I have not had any problems while living here at all.  Of course, typical maintenance issues are going to arise in any building and I feel the issues have been properly addressed since the inception of 3CDC.

 

I fully understand the concept of what 3CDC is doing and I have no problems with it what-so-ever.  Additionally, I, for one, appreciate everything they are doing to relocate tenants.

 

However, I would like it known that I am not an alcoholic, drug addict or sex offender.  Poor in pocket yes, but extremely rich in spirit!

EasyComeEasyGo,

 

As a quick plug I'd like to invite you (or any other downtown residents) to come to the Downtown Residents Council (DRC) meetings on the second Tuesday of the month at 6pm in the Main Library (3rd floor meeting room).  We're the local community council for downtown that is made up of people focused on making downtown a better place for its residents.

 

Unfortunately, I think some of the stereotyping of people living in some buildings comes from lack of interaction with different groups of people.  For this and other reasons the DRC will be working to improve diversity of membership.  If you're interested in hearing what's going on in your neighborhood and adding your voice please consider stopping in.

 

http://ilivedowntown.com/ (DRC Website)

I don't live downtown, but I work a block away from the Metropole and have walked past the building at least once a day for the better part of the last decade.  The residents have always appeared to be nice and friendly.  I have never thought of that building as the source of any of the problems downtown. 

 

I am excited about the hotel that is going into the building, because I think DT needs another upscale hotel, but I wish they would have picked a different building.

I don't think anyone here has characterized everyone in the Metropole as a drug dealer or prostitute. But it does generate some of the highest service calls in the city, and was the site of a very large prostitution/drug bust only a few years ago. When you congregate a large amount of lower-incomed people -- regardless of race (et. al.), crime will increase. The security officer that is on the first floor is there for a reason.

 

Page Tower and the towers on the west end of downtown, and the remaining projects in the West End where there are large pockets of lower-incomed individuals, for instance, generate high amounts of service calls for anything from minute fires to prostitution to drugs to gangs. The idea of the Metropole redevelopment is to provide a better living environment, and that's being accomplished by dispersing them throughout the neighborhoods in newly renovated properties.

 

While it is desirable to provide lower-incomed people units within the downtown, market forces do not necessarily work in that favor. Land values are too pricey, and no developer wants to build for the marginal buck when they can't get their return-on-investment.