Posted July 17, 200618 yr I hoping to get a collection of absolutely ridiculous parking buildups throughout Ohio. An image would be much appreciated to accompany your thoughts/concerns. Here is one to get things rolling: This is the Tri-County Mall area (Cincy), with I-275 running across the top of the image....sorry some of it goes off the screen a little, but you get the idea.
July 17, 200618 yr Try downtown Columbus. Makes Tri-County look like Easton. "You don't just walk into a bar and mix it up by calling a girl fat" - buildingcincinnati speaking about new forumers
July 17, 200618 yr ^Oh you must mean this....good call! However, look at the distance away that the images are taken from....Tri-county still has it beat :clap: This is immediatly NE of downtown Columbus (a block or so away from bldgs):
July 17, 200618 yr True fact: "Columbus" is actually a derivation of "Cul-ahm-beh," the mound-building Indian word for "plenty of well-lit parking." http://maps.google.com/?ie=UTF8&t=k&om=1&ll=39.962714,-82.995958&spn=0.019144,0.022616 Okay, I just made that up. But the photo is real (I think).
July 17, 200618 yr ^I was gonna say, it's probably named after Christopher Columbus. Technically downtown Columbus would be a lot more dense than tri-county considering it has skyscrapers providing a lot of square footage of commercial space than a one story building in tri-county. BTW Easton still has plenty of parking lots, they're just outside of the little "village" areas, thats all.
July 17, 200618 yr This is from another parking lot thread which has other maps for the 2 Cs there. http://www.urbanohio.com/forum2/index.php?topic=8274.0
July 17, 200618 yr ^I was gonna say, it's probably named after Christopher Columbus. Technically downtown Columbus would be a lot more dense than tri-county considering it has skyscrapers providing a lot of square footage of commercial space than a one story building in tri-county. BTW Easton still has plenty of parking lots, they're just outside of the little "village" areas, thats all. Thank you, Captain Obvious ;). "You don't just walk into a bar and mix it up by calling a girl fat" - buildingcincinnati speaking about new forumers
July 17, 200618 yr Notice the parking lots flowing with the blood of the mound-building Indians. Tragic on so many levels.
July 17, 200618 yr Well, that opens casino opportunities, like Detroit! "You don't just walk into a bar and mix it up by calling a girl fat" - buildingcincinnati speaking about new forumers
July 17, 200618 yr It's not way to big. It just needs to fill in the holes and we'll be good. "You don't just walk into a bar and mix it up by calling a girl fat" - buildingcincinnati speaking about new forumers
July 17, 200618 yr Seriously, in Detroit the parking is completely horded by the Casinos. The Greektown public parking garage is being torn down, and the only place to park for under $20 is the Greektown Casino self-park, and there, you're paying $8 flat. Unfortunately there's a constant dearth of onstreet parking in the district on account of every available spot being designated for jail personnel (the Wayne County lock-up is the tallest building in Greektown; look for its imposing profile next time they pan across Ford Field on ESPN). And THAT, folks, is what you call a user-friendly entertainment district.
July 17, 200618 yr ^^ How does the square mileage of dt Columbus compare with Cleveland and Cincinnati? If we could calculate downtown square mileage per some unit of population for the cities... I wonder what the ideal amount of square mileage downtown is per person in a cities population...
July 17, 200618 yr DT Columbus needs more buildings, but seeing these Cinci and Cleveland photo-threads, I'm coming to realize DT Columbus needs COOLER-looking buildings, too. A little LeVeque Tower goes a long way, but come on, the Nationwide Insurance Building? Same architect as the Wayne County lock-up.
July 22, 200618 yr ^^ I tried to find the stats for DT Sq mileage on the three C's...but all I could find was the Sq mileage for the entire city limits for the three C's according to Wikipedia. Cleveland: Land 77.6 s miles water 4.8 sq miles DT pop 9599(and rising) Cincinnnati: Land 78 sq miles water 1.6 sq miles (no info on DT pop) Columbus: Land 210.3 sq miles water 2.3 sq miles (no info on DT pop)
July 23, 200618 yr ^ I think Cincy is over 3,000 and Columbus is over 4,500 with both figures relatively recent (I think 2004 or later). Here's something intersting I found. http://www.brook.edu/es/urban/top21fin.pdf By 2010 the projected downtown population is 5,800 in Columbus and 21,000 in Cleveland (sorry, no figures for Cincinnati, so if someone can find something please add!)
July 23, 200618 yr How did Columbus gain 300,000 people in 4 years? Was there annexation or did they expand the Metro boundaries? I love the square mile stats. Cincy is pretty dense in comparison with some of the other Metros. Sacramento, KC, and Denver, all with similar Metro pops are much less dense.
July 23, 200618 yr Cleveland: Land 77.6 s miles water 4.8 sq miles DT pop 9599(and rising) Cincinnnati: Land 78 sq miles water 1.6 sq miles (no info on DT pop) Columbus: Land 210.3 sq miles water 2.3 sq miles (no info on DT pop) That would be awesome if we could annex to 210 sq miles! I wonder if Cincy has ever tried to annex before?
July 23, 200618 yr I think this has been discussed before, but they along with places like Indianapolis and Charlotte were big winners when they went from metro areas to CSA's to define population. Look at how much land St. Louis gets - ridiculous. It also shows that Cleveland is very dense in that even with Akron, the area only covers 3600 square miles. That seems impressive to me. How did Columbus gain 300,000 people in 4 years? Was there annexation or did they expand the Metro boundaries? I love the square mile stats. Cincy is pretty dense in comparison with some of the other Metros. Sacramento, KC, and Denver, all with similar Metro pops are much less dense.
July 23, 200618 yr Okay, here's where my art degree starts showing: Please explain the top line of the data chart: 2003 CSA/CBSA 1999 C/MSA I'm thinking the "1999" and "2003" have something to do with your primitive earthling measurement of time, but what of the rest?
July 23, 200618 yr CSA - Combined Statistical Area MSA - Metropolitan Statistical Area CSA's combine multiple MSA's Example, Cincinnati & Middletown are separate MSA's I predict that in 2010 the Cincinnati & Dayton will be one CSA and look like this (with 2005 Data). Notice that Cincinnati & Dayton use less land than what makes up St. Louis' numbers.
July 23, 200618 yr ^I see the debate brewing with that stat....population vs. sq miles!!! I won't be the one to start it..only instigate it!
July 23, 200618 yr ^I see the debate brewing with that stat....population vs. sq miles!!! I won't be the one to start it..only instigate it! Hey I'll start it! I tried explaining that Canton/Massillon should be part of the Cleveland-Akron-Elyria CSA a while back in another thread but got grilled by some know-it-alls that I was cheating and trying to make my metro area bigger and that those cities are totally not a part of Clev's CSA.. ha!! You can clearly see that Cleveland is one of the densest on this list with other comparable cities having their CSA based on 2-3 times the number square miles (e.g. Minneapolis).
July 24, 200618 yr Oh, I do agree that Canton should be part of Cleveland's CSA. But again, it's all commuter stats that screw it up. "You don't just walk into a bar and mix it up by calling a girl fat" - buildingcincinnati speaking about new forumers
July 24, 200618 yr I kinda agree with C-dawg. I'm probably always going to live in the inner core of a city and will have little, if anything, to do with a city 50 miles away. That amount of driving is tedious. I do understand that people in...say...Mason could easily commute to Centerville and that it would bridge the gap between the two metros but the thought of that is just depressing and scary at the same time to me. I like areas that are close knit and I like to see tons of people walking around, with a good chance of seeing someone I know. I like looking at buildings that are crammed together (and I still haven't figured out exactly why, maybe it just symbolizes a close knit community). For that reason, CSA means about as much to me as comparing Ohio's population to Penn or Indiana.
July 24, 200618 yr You can clearly see that Cleveland is one of the densest on this list with other comparable cities having their CSA based on 2-3 times the number square miles (e.g. Minneapolis). You must also look at cities with smaller pops/smaller boundaries. Milwaukee seems to be very comparable (density) to any city on the list. Their city boundary is only 1,795 with about 1,710,000 people. If you were to double both their city size and pop it would definately beat out Cleveland in this reguard. But nevertheless, Cleveland is one of the more urban areas in the midwest, and I would doubt that many people would argue that.
July 24, 200618 yr ^ I don't know there is no significant population centers surrounding milwaukee, besides Chicago to the south. You would destroy it's density if you start adding very rural area's to the population.
July 24, 200618 yr ^ I don't know there is no significant population centers surrounding milwaukee, besides Chicago to the south. You would destroy it's density if you start adding very rural area's to the population. The stretch going from Milwaukee all the way down to Chicago is pretty urban all along the lake if I remembe correctly. But once you're like 5 miles west from the lake, then yeah. Looking at google earth theres chunks of land completely undeveloped inbetween urban centers between chicago and Milwaukee..I wonder why that is; they don't appear to be parks. Seems like developers would jump on that.
July 25, 200618 yr The space between Milwaukee and Chicago is definately not rural, at least not anything east of I-94. Most big cities on the Great Lakes have lakefront land developed further outside of the metro region, simply because it's desirable even in rural areas. However, looking at Cleveland on a map, think of what is NOT included in the CSA but is nearby: Kent, Canton, and Youngstown. Especially considering Kent and Canton are very close to Akron, which is on the CSA.
July 25, 200618 yr I'm going to attempt to get this thread back on topic. Here is one almost immediately east of downtown Cbus. The interstate running through is I-270. Just look at all of the utilized parking.
July 25, 200618 yr Could someone explain to me where 270 runs immediately East of downtown... I must have missed that exit.
July 25, 200618 yr I-270 is a loop around the city....therefore it is on all sides of the city. I wrote that the parking area is immediately east of downtown (meaning directly east....not neccessarily nearby). Maybe that is where you were misunderstanding my post.
July 25, 200618 yr Here is one almost immediately east of downtown Cbus. The interstate running through is I-270. Just look at all of the utilized parking. Uhhhh, not quite. That's Eastland Mall (which, ironically, sits on the far southeast side, close to Route 33, not immediately east of downtown). If you know Eastland Mall, you know it's not the most fashionable retail area in Central Ohio. You all know that during business hours (8AM-5:30PM), the mall doesn't have many shoppers at all. Also, depending on when the satellite image was taken, one of the anchors was closed/under renovation. Yeah, it's underutilized at times. It's a mall.
July 25, 200618 yr I-270 is a loop around the city....therefore it is on all sides of the city. I wrote that the parking area is immediately east of downtown (meaning directly east....not neccessarily nearby). Maybe that is where you were misunderstanding my post. I did indeed misunderstand your intent. My apologies. :)
July 25, 200618 yr Man, you Cbus people are sure getting defensive....my bad I will correct myself: Original statement: Here is one almost immediately east of downtown Cbus. Corrected statement: Here is one almost directly southeast of downtown Cbus. Better? If you know Eastland Mall, you know it's not the most fashionable retail area in Central Ohio. You all know that during business hours (8AM-5:30PM), the mall doesn't have many shoppers at all. Also, depending on when the satellite image was taken, one of the anchors was closed/under renovation. Yeah, it's underutilized at times. It's a mall. I dont care what the mall is like, or who its clientle are? The only point of posting it was that their is a shit-ton of surface parking there. This is the point of the thread....not the success or failure of a destination but rather the 'ridiculous parking buildups' that accompany many of the destinations people frequent. There are examples of better utilized/preserved land for these same types of developments throughout the nation. I wanted to make light of the extreme amount of land that is being wasted for surface parking lots across our great state. If you want that much parking build a garage, share parking, or whatever.....but to allow people to simply pave over our environment is unacceptable reguardless of what it is for.
July 25, 200618 yr Man, you Cbus people are sure getting defensive Defensive, or just observant of the absolutely blatant detest for anything in the central part of this state? The image posted is of a standard suburban mall built in the latter half of the 20th century; of which similar types can be found in large cities across the nation. Your posts have the sentiment that this is an epedemic strictly confined to Columbus, and that whatever recent strides in creating more suitable land uses are apparently irrelevant due to remaining mistakes of the past. If you want that much parking build a garage, share parking, or whatever.....but to allow people to simply pave over our environment is unacceptable reguardless of what it is for. Oh! What a magnanimous statement! You deserve one of them nobel peacy prizes for finding and so elloquently chastising the pure embodiment that is Columbus: our absolute disrespect for Mother Earth by our continued wanton distruction of the environment, as evident by a satellite photo of Eastland Mall. Yes, you heard it here folks: Columbus is the root of all evil! Leave now for the oasises in the Northern and Southern sections of the state, where you can enjoy a life of rainbows and butterflies amongst the most pure urban landscapes completely devoid of surface parking and cul-de-sacs as far as the eye can see! I love it!
July 25, 200618 yr There's been times I've gone to Columbus for events, especially red white and boom and couldn't find any parking downtown. We always end up parking somewhere on the west side of town off of Broad street and walk. For big events such as this, the surface lots all come in handy and I don't think events like red white and boom could attract over one million people each year if it wasn't for all of the parking spots. Unfortunately you can't have it as surface parking for events and business hours, and then suddenly transform it to great architecture in the down time. As for Eastland... When Tuttle Crossing, Polaris, and Easton got built, it completely wiped it out. You think Eastland is bad, look at Westland Mall. You don't have a reason to go into that mall anymore unless you're renewing your license plates, taking karate lessons, or to visit the hispanic coalition. Eastland is pretty old--my guess is that back then they didn't care about sprawl and efficient utilization of land, especially when they can save money. Parking structures are expensive, and as much as Eastland has gone downhill they're definitely not going to add a garage now. Those big box malls are basically a waste once they go down hill. It's not like you can convert them into trendy condos. Btw, what ever happend to Northland, anyone know?
July 25, 200618 yr ^Whoa, a voice of reason! Go David! Go David! Go David! (dives into bathtub, covers head) Oh c'mon. I'm just encouraging lively discussion with a well-balanced yet horribly snide rant :laugh:.
July 25, 200618 yr For big events such as this, the surface lots all come in handy and I don't think events like red white and boom could attract over one million people each year if it wasn't for all of the parking spots. No, people would come downtown for such large events without all the parking, but Columbus has some of the suckiest public transit this side of Detroit.
July 25, 200618 yr If the public transit was better, yes. But right now I think the remarkable amount of parking available in and near downtown without being landlocked definitely works to Columbus' advantage for events like that.
July 25, 200618 yr Well, the thing about plentiful parking is that eventually, there will be enough parking spots for everyone, but no reason for anyone to park there.
July 25, 200618 yr Defensive, or just observant of the absolutely blatant detest for anything in the central part of this state? The image posted is of a standard suburban mall built in the latter half of the 20th century; of which similar types can be found in large cities across the nation. Your posts have the sentiment that this is an epedemic strictly confined to Columbus, and that whatever recent strides in creating more suitable land uses are apparently irrelevant due to remaining mistakes of the past. Ummm...I'm not sure what your problem is, but if you actually read the entire thread next time you will realize that I also posted an image of the Tri-County Mall area here in Cincy....I actually claimed that the Tri-County Mall area had a more obnoxious collection of parking than what someone else was claiming about Cbus. Thats right, I was defending the central part of our state! I was putting Cincy down and saying that it had some worse examples than Cbus. Sooo please spare me this absolute BS that I despise central Ohio and Cbus in particular....because its an outright lie!!!!! I would also like you to attack everyone else who criticized Cbus's surface lot situation in this thread (I certainly wasnt the only one)! If you want to make brazen comments/generalizations you had better at least be informed first!!! Oh BTW, here is Broadway Commons.....a wonderful waste of land! and here is the Banks....another piece o' crap: I know/admit what areas in my city are crap and hope for their reversal of fortunes. I do not spray perfume on my city's shit.......neither should you. If it is a mall with a huge surface lot...is that good? Is an abundance of surface lots in a downtown good? I didn't think so!
July 25, 200618 yr SE of Cleveland: CMH, did you see that....an example of Cleveland. Hopefully you'll be able to sleep tonight knowing that I can admit that Cbus isn't the only place in the state with surface lot problems.
July 25, 200618 yr I would also like you to attack everyone else who criticized Cbus's surface lot situation in this thread (I certainly wasnt the only one)! Oh, my tirade wasn't meant to be directed squarely at you. Your post just happened to be the one to conveniently set off the little trigger in the back of my mind that said "set phasers from stun to kill." My appologies for creating that feeling of being singled out, like Columbus always gets :wink:. So, ummm, yeah...back to the topic at hand. Surface parking sucks.
July 26, 200618 yr ^I just mentioned on CRM that even an urban neighborhood like Olde Towne East has suburban sprawl in the form of low walkability due to everthing being spread out along Broad like that abomination of a suburban Wendy's that was built there. I did eat there once, but only because there was no place else to eat nearby. So sad that it wasn't stopped to instead have a Wendy's and other retail topped with a number of residential units and no drive thru or a drive thru with parking on side streets.
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