City West photo update, 11/10/07

Building Cincinnati, 11/15/07

 

Activity has slowed at the City West site in the West End, though one townhome building is under construction on Cutter Street.

 

Unfortunately, some idiot decided it would be fun to smash out all of the lower-level windows. Yeah, dude, you're a real badass.

 

City West is a massive HOPE VI redevelopment of the former Lincoln Court and Laurel Homes sites that includes mixed-income townhome and rental units and retail.

 

Also included is a photo of Cincinnati Public Schools' new Hays Elementary, which is on the other side of Cutter Street.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

http://www.building-cincinnati.com/2007/11/city-west-photo-update-111007.html

 

City West = GOOD  :-D

 

New Hays Elementary = BAD  :x

Philly has some seriously horrendous school building from the late 60s and 70s, they look like prisons. This just looks like a warehouse.

It would be one thing if they build one school that looked like Hays, and said "Wow that looks like crap; let's not do that again", but they're building dozens of them.

 

I've never seen any of Lakota's schools, but Fairfield HS shows that Cincy doesn't have a monopoly on this stuff.

My sense is that these schools were dominate the 'burbs more than the city at the moment. The new PRidge and Clifton/Fairview seem pretty good, with Clifton quite an improvement on what was there before.

It would be one thing if they build one school that looked like Hays, and said "Wow that looks like crap; let's not do that again", but they're building dozens of them.

 

I've never seen any of Lakota's schools, but Fairfield HS shows that Cincy doesn't have a monopoly on this stuff.

Yeah, they have this crazy thing called a budget. I don't think its too much to ask that they have a lot of windows though. We really need to learn how to engage nature with architecture. Embrace natural light so less internal lighting (electricity) is required. That's a no-brainer.

and now back to City West....

City West project recreates West End

1940s-era housing replaced with market homes

BY TOM DEMEROPOLIS | CINCINNATI BUSINESS COURIER

April 25, 2008

 

WEST END - The largest housing project in Cincinnati since World War II is on the cusp of completion.

 

City West, which includes 686 rental units, 211 for-sale homes, 20,000 square feet of retail space and a park on 14 acres of land, has transformed the blighted, low-income area of the West End into a mixed-income development that is breathing new life into the region.

 

Click on link for article.

^I think it has a lot more to do with demographics than the storefront design(s).

^Which is the difference between Calhoun and Linn.

How do the economics work behind the best designed retail space and an area that has bad demographics for retailers?  With the way raw materials continue to rise in price...and the decreasing spending power with our economy you will continue to see this issue in just about every retail project.  Cheap designs, high price/sf, and few takers.

It would interesting to break out City West from the West End when it comes to crime data.

I hate when they give crime stats like this: "Crime was a major neighborhood concern. In 1999, police got 13,559 calls. There were 932 Part 1 crimes, such as murder, rape, aggravated assault, auto theft and larceny."

 

The actual breakdown looks like this:

 

West End

calls 10,952

crimes 657

murder 3

rape 11

robbery 67

assault 52

burglary  128

larceny 327

auto theft 69

And as of the first 3 months of this year, west end is on pace to have about the same crime as last year and District one has the lowest crimes of any district

Living in City West, I can honestly say that most people in this neighborhood are extremely nice and want good things for themselves and their families.  As a homeowner, I have very few problems with any of the people who live in City West.  I woudl make a similar statment about former places I lived in the burbs.  I can walk to downtown to eat, make a quick drive to Newport for a movie, and stand on my deck waving to the neighbors without feeling threatened.

 

What is hard is many of us feel like an island out here.  The city and country were to busy fighting over who should have jursidiction over City West to actually keep an eye on it.  We are surrounded by similar projects to the ones that City West replaced on many of our borders and the OTR on the east. 

 

Has this stop us from enjoying our homes or apartments?  No.  We are all hopeful that things will continue to change and that this experiment in mixed income housing will continue  to succeed.  There are still homes yet to be built in our neighborhood and then with the potential for new homes at the museum center, I think this neighborhood is ripe for positive growth.  I have enjoyed getting to know my neighbors. 

 

I wish they would tear down places like the Jet-in Market and the two worn strip centers on the west side of Linn.  I think those being torn replaced could help change a retailers perspective on taking a chance down here.

 

Honestly the only time I feel uncomfortable is at night.  I live in the city and expect that as a part of living in the city.

Has this stop us from enjoying our homes or apartments?  No.  We are all hopeful that things will continue to change and that this experiment in mixed income housing will continue  to succeed.  There are still homes yet to be built in our neighbrhood and then with the potential for new homes at the museum center, I think this neighborhood is ripe for positive growth.  I have enjoyed getting to know my neighbors.

 

And as each new day turns the future looks brighter and brighter for a potential streetcar to link over through the West End terminating at Union Terminal.  Just imagine how that could improve the lives/property values for residents of City West.

Does anyone have any photos of the retail portion of this project?

CMHA close to property deal

Board member says housing agency in talks with nonprofit developer

http://cincinnati.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/stories/2008/09/08/story4.html

 

The Cincinnati Metropolitan Housing Authority is negotiating with a local nonprofit to redevelop dozens of West End properties it acquired as part of its massive CityWest redevelopment project.

 

Click on link for article.

I don't know anything about Community Revitalization Agency.  Anyone know their history?

I want to give this thread a little bump.

 

I will be finishing up school in the next year, can't believe how fast 5 years can pass! I hope to be working downtown and looking at different options. I am looking at purchasing a home in City West because I like the thought of being close to downtown and having a brand new, energy efficient home. I know that the METRO runs right through the neighborhood, huge plus. But, how is the neighborhood coming along? Do neighbors walk and talk to each other? How is safety? Could I sit in front of my house without problems at 9 p.m.?

 

I really like the neighborhood because for the money, its the best thing near downtown, but I don't want to move in and feel I made a mistake. I would love to get involved in a community that is need of change and leadership, and between OTR and West End, it looks like this is more of an option. Also, any news on CityLink, as this could be a deal breaker for a home owner.

I would love to get involved in a community that is need of change and leadership, and between OTR and West End, it looks like this is more of an option. Also, any news on CityLink, as this could be a deal breaker for a home owner.

 

OTR still needs people with vision and leadership (not that the West End doesn't either). 

 

Citylink is still on track.  Recently Darrick Dansby (formerly with 3CDC) was hired as the executive director.  There has been some minor site work/testing done on site, but as far as I know no groundbreaking date or plans filed yet.

 

Are there rental properties/apartments available in the city west development? I've only come across one rental site that lists them so I wasn't sure.

There are rental properties in City West.  The leasing office is in the Senior building off Linn and Clark.  The Townhomes/Rowhouses lining Ezzard Charles, Laurel Park Drive, Cutter and a portion of Court are all owner occupied condos.  Everything else is rental.  The rental properties is a mixed market rate and subsidized houisng.  The subsidized housing has higher eligilibilty restrictions than what is associated with the section 8 program.

 

I have enjoyed living in City West and would be happy to answer anyone's questions about my experience here.

AndrewN-- Do you know what is up with the neighborhood association? I've heard mixed reports. We moved into City West about 8 months ago. We're market renters, and we mostly have been quite pleased living here. I'd love to hear more of your perspective on how things are going. The best deal downtown for a three bedroom you will ever find for sure!

I am going to assume you mean the City West Homeowners Association.  The asssociation board is still under the power of the developer (Drees)and declarant (CMHA) until more of the homes are built and sold.  This is not unusual.  The Association president is a homeowner.

 

Last November after a serving several terms, the president moved which means a new president was elected.  The transition was rather sudden and some important history was lost.  The new president is doing a great job pulling things back together.  We have monthly meetings ( 4th Thursday of the month) at the Regal Manor.  The last meeting had the neighborhood liaison from the Cincinnati Police.  GOOD NEWS---crime has dropped for the 1st quarter significantly for the entire West End neighborhood.

 

She is having discussions with the board to make some neighborhood improvements that will ad more value to our homes.  Additionally, she is forming committess to work on projects, a welcoming committee, and a social committee. A monthly newsletter is now going out (this started in March).

 

So I would say things are getting better after a bumpy transition---more residents are starting to get involved. 

 

I haven't heard much from the West End Neighborhood Association lately---and I am unsure of the City West Resident Council for the renters.  I will see what I can find out.

 

The first year I live here, I wasn't able to truly enjoy my surroundings for health reasons.  I am now walking to fountain square, qateway quarter, and coffee emporium regularly.  I love the fact I live in what would be a "suburban" house layout in the middle of the city.

 

 

I haven't talked to the developers in a long time on this, but how is the development holding up? You noted that crime decreased significantly; were they having trouble with gangs or drug use (etc.) previously? How has maintenance been kept up in the development? And will they be constructing additional units in the near future, or are they waiting for the market to start rebounding?

Sherman:  I clarified by response about crime----that was for the entire west end neighborhood.  I can honestly say that most crime against homeowners are minor---and we do keep a good watch out for each other.  The biggest complaints from homeowners are trash getting blown around (result of being near fields and an elementary school) and kids running around without their parents watching them.

 

As far as building---Drees is currently building a unit out in my building.  Some buildings still have shell units in them---Drees won't build new buildings until those units are sold.  There are only a few left which is a good thing.  This is not unusual---especially in this market.

As for maintenance, the exterior of the older units (before Drees) just got repainted and the HOA is working to address some landscaping issues with the older units.

 

 

 

will add that the City West project has been successful in making it clear that historically-inspired renewal is the only way for Cincinnati going forward in the West End.  I would like to see Liberty and Ezzard transformed and the street grid reconnected, naturally making way for more prominent development and commerce.

 

I'm not sure how successful City West has been, other than at least in concept, its a great idea to reclaim the west end with something that at least looks somewhat like what was lost to Laurel Homes. 

 

Yet, I drive through there and it doesn't appear to be a mixed community at all.  I drive through similar Hope IV projects in Chicago and see people of all races, yet when I go through City West it seems all black.  I did some deeper digging and it seems there are managerial problems including safety and maintenance issues with the site:

 

http://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2010/12/01/lenders-start-foreclosure-action-at.html

 

and

 

http://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2010/12/30/cmha-calls-for-ouster-of-city-west.html

 

and

 

http://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/print-edition/2010/11/05/with-defaults-is-city-west-still.html

 

Its a real shame, I'd love to see the west end regain some of its old grandeur, and I've seen similar projects in other parts of the country that are successful and highly desired due to their close proximity to downtowns.

Nellworms -- your comment about successful urban-areas adjoining other downtowns was an interesting one.  If possible, would you share what you remember about these areas?  This information might lend itself to a Google Earth look/see.  Thanks.

I'm the most familiar with Chicago because I'm living there.  Here are a couple examples:

 

A large chunk of Cabrini Green has been redeveloped, the project stalled due to economic issues, but that happened all over the country. Here is a google representative of what the neighborhood looks like: http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=West+Evergreen+Avenue,+Chicago,+IL&sll=41.897869,-87.629442&sspn=0.01495,0.056562&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=W+Evergreen+Ave,+Chicago,+Illinois&ll=41.899942,-87.644376&spn=0.003737,0.014141&t=h&z=16&layer=c&cbll=41.899942,-87.644376&panoid=aUEAvxoKdhTyc1tPtv_l_g&cbp=12,92.94,,0,1.04

 

Business is solid there, even some clients I work with in the futures industry have located to this general area, something quite different from the abandoned stretches of retail along Linn street.

 

"ABLA" - now basically the projects that were near UIC which is this terrible post war monstrosity that removed a bunch of late victorian neighborhoods from near the loop (Downtown). The projects were torn down then renamed Roosevelt Square,  Here is a map:

 

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=West+Evergreen+Avenue,+Chicago,+IL&sll=41.897869,-87.629442&sspn=0.01495,0.056562&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=W+Evergreen+Ave,+Chicago,+Illinois&ll=41.860997,-87.648802&spn=0.007479,0.028281&z=15&layer=c&cbll=41.860997,-87.648802&panoid=6Oq_e4_lCowKK9rAifwc3g&cbp=12,25.4,,0,-3.47

 

There are more examples I'm sure, particularly on the North, Near West and Near South sides - the architecture kind of gives them away, but I need to do a bit more digging to verify which ones of these were former projects.

 

Not everything was successful in Chicago, but the ones near downtown were. Its kind of shocking, but in Cincinnati the idea of downtown living is (surprise surprise) 20 years behind everyone else, things are literally just starting up, where as in Chicago the problem is over-gentrification and actually being able to afford living near downtown unless you're rich or know the right people and find a good deal.

 

All of these "projects" have stalled with the real estate bust, but I get the feeling from riding around them and looking at signs of who lives in them and the retail that surrounds them, that they are more successful than the Cincinnati ones.  There are numbers to back it up on the ones near the UIC where property values went up 5x+ after the projects were removed and new places put in their place.

 

A lot of it may also be culture in Cincinnati.  Cincinnatians are more afraid of integrating.  On my own street there are subsidized houses at the end of the street for lower income Latinos.  Surrounding it are new condo buildings (which are IMO generally a step above the quality seen in City West in the new but looks old dept - I need to start a thread on this sometime) and even a multi-million dollar house of new construction that was previously foreclosed but now is being remodeled and will be inhabited when done.  There are BMWs on my street, working class Latinos who remain from when the area was solidly working class Puerto Rican, and young hipsters fresh out of college.  While my neighborhood is not a new mixed income development, I'm sure this integration also applies to these mixed income developments as well, so long as they are in desirable parts of town.

My sense is that development in the City West area south of Ezzard Charles is quite a bit more integrated than north.

City West has done a tremendous job in reshaping a nice chunk of the West End.  Unfortunately, as has been touched on, the commerce in the area is limited at the time.  Linn south of Liberty going west is where any potential big payoff for the City would be if Cincinnati ever pursues redeveloping that chunk of land due to the wide space available for molding.  The area surrounding Union Terminal is abysmal in almost every sense.

Other than the obvious problems of the economy, and the known problem of mismanagement, one thing that might be retarding the growth of the retail is the fact that there are still remnants of the projects immediately across Linn St.  I wonder why these didn't get torn down like the others?

Thanks, Nellworms. for the Chicago W. Evergreen Ave (and environs) links;  they were eye-openers when combined with your commentary about your own neighborhood.

I'd say part of the problem with the retail vacancy is the fact that each iteration of the west end has been less dense than the last.  The 1930s and 40s low-rise public housing was a lot less dense than the original row house neighborhoods, and the current rather suburban townhouses are even less dense than those.  Despite being new and of a better overall form than the previous typology, the lack of density is a big problem for supporting much retail. 

That and there is nothing to support it across the street. City West by itself is okay, but what is surrounding it to the north and west drags it down.

 

Found out I have coworkers and a friend who live in City West: one on Linn and the other off of Ezzard Charles. One rents; her apartment is randomly inspected monthly, and they check everything from drugs to the serial numbers on the appliances. She is not section 8 but is essentially treated as being in one. Her biggest complaint is the noise; it is loud pretty much all night and the litter that abounds is disgusting.

 

The others have a town home. They have witnessed shootings from their deck into the alley where they park their cars, and have had people climb onto their second level deck and wander in their house. And people have of course broken in.

 

But it's damn cheap considering the location. I wish that there was more middle incomed people living at City West. It's tilt towards subsidized housing drags the area down and te whole notion of mixed income is nothing more than a punchline.

all-in-all i'm really happy with citywest. i think in a city where suburbanites are skeptical of downtown neighborhoods it shows them that an urban neighborhood can be extremly pleasant and they left enough yards for future development of maybe larger building for higher density without just cramming all the low income people into a slum. i always thought once they start later streetcar phases they should go to union terminal via 5th or court to linn street to help support growth around 5th and linn and the retail on linn but i guess a streetcar system that far advanced would support that strip just fine from ezzard charles. plus that alignment would be more advantageous to later expand to price hill. i do wish we could see a similar project try to blend architecture like that with existing rowhouse style building to the north near the sam adams brewery so once findlay is revitalized theres not a run down neighborhood across the parkway but now im getting carried away (and possibly was with the whole post lol.)

I would not consider the rowhouses @ City West suburban, particularly because the development is nowhere near complete.  Many of the buildings in the original West End were single-family or dual family anyway.  The fact that Cincinnati's central neighborhoods were built for a million people has something to do with the death in the air that sweeps through the inner city.

Found out I have coworkers and a friend who live in City West: one on Linn and the other off of Ezzard Charles. One rents; her apartment is randomly inspected monthly, and they check everything from drugs to the serial numbers on the appliances. She is not section 8 but is essentially treated as being in one. Her biggest complaint is the noise; it is loud pretty much all night and the litter that abounds is disgusting.

 

The others have a town home. They have witnessed shootings from their deck into the alley where they park their cars, and have had people climb onto their second level deck and wander in their house. And people have of course broken in.

 

But it's damn cheap considering the location. I wish that there was more middle incomed people living at City West. It's tilt towards subsidized housing drags the area down and te whole notion of mixed income is nothing more than a punchline.

 

These kinds of issues are exactly the sorts of things that the articles I posted from the Business Journal were eluding to in the city's complaints towards mismanagement of this project.  That really doesn't make this sit well with me.

 

I'm worried that unless something is done to remedy these issues, over time this part of town will be a prettier, less dense version of the run down projects it replaced.

Just looked at two properties over there for purchase. One is 2600 SF for $149,000, the other is 2400 SF for $115,000. Respectively, they sold for $180,000 and $150,000 back when they were constructed. They are nice on the inside, a little cheap on the exterior finishes, and the rear is nothing to look at. Both have a one car garage, plenty of space and worth the price - but the key issues remain. Will the price continue to drop on City West or has the bottom been reached? What about crime, has it gone up appreciably? What about the near non-existent retail on Lynn?

 

Corrected prices.

More of the usual bad news...

 

http://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2011/01/20/city-west-residents-resist-removal-of.html

 

I think its really sad that such a well designed project that has at least made the west end look a bit more like it used to has failed so much to attract market rate renters/buyers.

 

 

It was the hopes that City West would have been fully realized, with the completion of the original phase of City West, and the extension of the development westward towards Union Terminal that might have been too great and ambitious, but was done during the whole credit boom of the 1990s and 2000s. Now, we have the "Art Apartments at Music Hall" with appropriately themed crap decorating government lawns that doesn't do a damn thing in fixing what has been broken for so many years.

 

I ended up not even considering the properties in City West because I'm afraid of the property devaluations. How much further can they go down, since some properties have dropped by $100k already? What if there is another riot? I am packing for one in Northside...

It is sad but true... there are just too many "behavior problems" in City west.  Unfortunately the demo of the older structures released way too many of these problems to other neighborhoods as well.  The whole damn city, outside of a few choice neighborhoods, is starting to get pretty rough around the edges.

It is sad but true... there are just too many "behavior problems" in City west. Unfortunately the demo of the older structures released way too many of these problems to other neighborhoods as well. The whole damn city, outside of a few choice neighborhoods, is starting to get pretty rough around the edges.

 

WHOA! I cannot tell you how much I disagree with the above statement concerning the state of the City. But to keep things on track it would seem that you would advocate the concentration of all persons you deem necessary to a singular neighborhood- when in fact the dispersal of persons from such conditions has been shown to be highly beneficial to so called "behavior problems" as well improving a persons' state of mind.

Studies by urban research firms continue to show that ease of mobility and a diversity of neighborhood incomes and positively affect the psychological state of residents.  The problem with the the West End continues to be one of diversity and mobility, until then it will seem as though they are purposefully concentrated (ghettoized) as your statement seems to suggest.  And despite the contemporary use of the term, ghettos start from concentration of persons not from their behavior or "roughness"

Judge orders new management at City West housing

By Dan Monk

 

A Hamilton County magistrate has ordered a management change at City West, a 686-unit apartment community in the West End.

 

City West is a $200 million mixed-income community where market-rate housing and retail space has failed to attract tenants. The Business Courier has been reporting on problems facing the 10-year-old community since early November.

 

News of the order came in a weekly update for board members at Cincinnati Metropolitan Housing Authority, which has been trying to oust The Community Builders as property manager at City West. Interim CMHA Director Ted Bergh said a court hearing on Wednesday led to an order for Towne Properties LLC to act as receiver for “three phases of City West.”

 

 

 

An update on things at City West:

 

City West dispute heating up

 

Business Courier - by Dan Monk

Date: Tuesday, July 26, 2011, 1:18pm EDT - Last Modified: Tuesday, July 26, 2011, 1:29pm EDT

 

They are a long way from friendly, the two sides battling for control of City West.

 

The $200 million mixed-income housing community in the West End is caught up in legal controversies that pit the Cincinnati Metropolitan Housing Authority against The Community BuildersbizWatch , a Boston-based nonprofit. Both were involved in developing City West, which was an attempt to replace two of the city’s oldest low-income housing projects with a vibrant new neighborhood that would attract all races and income levels, home owners and renters.

 

Any word on the management situation here?

I've heard they've "settled/come to an agreement" and it will remain with the same management.

 

Also, I heard that there was some work going on in the one building that was still a shell. Hopefully development starts up again on the Condo portion.

My quick sketch of what the West End could become if I-75 was demolished and converted into an urban boulevard. One can dream, no?  8-)

 

My quick sketch of what the West End could become if I-75 was demolished and converted into an urban boulevard. One can dream, no?  8-)

 

 

nice. alternatively it could be buried. in a world where money wasn't an issue. the flow of the city would change completely. imagine coming out of union terminal and seeing the city. very cool.