^ something new on the mall site makes more sense, but let'em put the mm in higbees if they are hell bent on reusing a building. that would also throw forest city a bone.

 

why can't people just walk, trolley, bus, cab or ride the waterfront rapid over to tc from the mall site to visit the mm? people walk and take transit away from cc's to go to other convention sites spread around other cities (mccormick/navy pier isnt near the chi mm/ javits is in the serrapes, etc) -- why is that ok everywhere else except in cle? why trap visitors in tc all day?

^Did you look through the MM presentation. They prefer to use existing building stock for their Marts. There is no building near the current center that is suitable for their purpose... except maybe City Hall. Hmmmm...

 

There is the old Chicago Title office building on St. Clair across from the Marriott Key. But I suspect the low cielings won't work (unless they remove every other floor!). Or, there's always Public Hall!

 

why trap visitors in tc all day?

 

That comment right there is why Forest City executives' mouths are watering, and why their wallets are open to local pols willing to help them.

What does everyone think about Merchandise Mart people running the CC?  I think it might be more efficient than city hall/county government.  If they do run it, I really hope there is a fair lease and perhaps the county can get its investment back

 

Theoretically, I'd love for MM to run the cc. A for-profit enterprise will be motivated to bring in as much business as possible.  Is this done in other cities?

 

I'm fairly sure that convention centers need subsidies to run. Just think about how often they are used/filled and how often they sit vacant. Like Monday through thursday of even the busiest season.

 

(again, pope reiterates, let a casino build one and operate it, they will gladly operate it at a loss assuming its connected to their casino)

The MM could be accomodated at the current CC location, and probably better than by wedging it into the old Higbee's. The current county admin block could be demolished, and a new MM could be built on that site, with the CC going over the lake, and the Mall extended over the CC, all the way to the Lakefront, and the convention hotel built over the tracks, fronting onto East 9th.. The real question is if the powers that be will give that option a chance.

 

that's a good point, but it appears that MM would like to get into Higbees pretty soon. I doubt that they would want to wait for the county land to become available.      EDIT--I just read a conflicting report saying that MM wouldn't come in until the the new cc is built. That contradicts everything we've heard up until now.

Not that this is the gold medal answer, but what ever happened to the film studio discussion as a re-use option?

 

The Greater Cleveland Film Commission recently updated their website and are definitely still pushing the existing Convention Center as a free production facility (see http://www.clevelandfilm.com/). The Film Commission is currently going through some transitions, as Chris Carmody is stepping down from the helm. That being said, I think both the Commission and the Mayor's Office are still interested in seeing this as a potential use.

I just read a conflicting report saying that MM wouldn't come in until the the new cc is built. That contradicts everything we've heard up until now.

 

It might be a scare tactic to help push the tax through

 

 

When was it published? and from who?

^Did you look through the MM presentation. They prefer to use existing building stock for their Marts. There is no building near the current center that is suitable for their purpose... except maybe City Hall. Hmmmm...

 

What?  You mean that they don't know that newer=better?

pd:

 

Medical Mart provides growth potential for Cleveland

The doctor who had the idea and the entrepreneur who wants to implement it tell why this city is a good fit for a Medical Mart

Sunday, July 15, 2007

 

Christopher Kennedy, president of Merchandise Mart Properties Why here? Because a Medical Mart would strengthen Cleveland.

 

When Merchandise Mart Properties Inc. was approached in early 2006 with the idea of a Medical Mart, our initial reaction was enthusiastic and supportive. Cleveland has long enjoyed an outstanding leadership position in the field of medicine simply by being the home of the Cleveland Clinic, University Hospitals, MetroHealth Hospital System and Case Western Reserve University School of Medicine. Thousands of supporting companies have grown up around these institutions. In many ways, Cleveland is the medical capital of the United States. We believe, however, that a Medical Mart is just the tip of the iceberg. Cleveland should set a much higher goal: becoming the medical trade show capital of the world.

 

 

more at:  http://www.cleveland.com

pd:

Medical Mart would offer Cleveland a shot in the arm

The doctor who had the idea and the entrepreneur who wants to implement it tell why this city is a good fit for a Medical Mart

Sunday, July 15, 2007

 

Delos M. “Toby” Cosgrove, M.D., chairman and CEO of the Cleveland Clinic Why? Because a Medical Mart would play to Cleveland's strengths

 

Health care is one of the fastest-growing industries in the U.S. economy. It is predicted that by 2011, health care services and

supplies will comprise 17 percent of the gross domestic product, and medical expenditures will reach $2.5 trillion.

 

This unprecedented growth is fueling the largest hospital construction boom in 50 years, both within the United States and abroad. Over the next decade, an estimated $200 billion will be spent in the United States to expand or replace hospitals. For every hospital constructed, the well-accepted formula is that a third of the total cost will cover medical equipment to be installed in these new facilities...

 

 

more at:  http://www.cleveland.com

Have they decided whether or not the tax increase will go to voters.  If it does, I beleive the media, city, and county has done an excellent job thus far in educating the people of Cuyahoga county of the financial benefits and spin-off job creaion from this facility.  It seems as though an article on this proposed development is printed on a weekly basis.  The positive is that the articles don't simply point toward the disagreement between commissioners and the bickering at City Hall.  They simply focus on the big picture of the medical mart. 

I think that if the county leadership knows what's best for them, they should put it to a vote. I keep hearing how this Medical Mart project is supposed to add a jolt to the local economy. What if it doesn't? It'll just add another black eye to the leadership of the region. I think it would be unwise to do this without a vote from the people.

I understand this as something the voters of the state already approved some time ago: the ability of the county to impose a sales tax.

This is what they are suggesting, and according to the law, the public has the right to collect the signatures to remove the tax.

 

 

So, if you are downtown these next couple weeks, read the fine print before signing anything....and don't just sign something for a I heart Cleveland t-shirt. 

What we would like to build is a Medical Mart alongside a trade show facility that would accommodate 250,000 square feet of exhibitor space

 

250,000 sq. feet?  Wasn't the proposed center behind terminal tower 350,000?

 

I guess I could just scroll back a few pages......

...from pg. 9 of this thread

 

To support greater Cleveland’s existing hospitality industry, the CFA determined that new convention facilities should be built in downtown with:

 

    * 300,000 square feet of exhibition space;

    * 100,000 square feet of meeting rooms, and

    * 35,000 square feet of ballrooms

Unless you are for the tax, then don't sign anything

Musky, you sure do like posting articles twice!!

...from pg. 9 of this thread

 

To support greater Clevelands existing hospitality industry, the CFA determined that new convention facilities should be built in downtown with:

 

    * 300,000 square feet of exhibition space;

    * 100,000 square feet of meeting rooms, and

    * 35,000 square feet of ballrooms

 

isn't 250,000 just for the medical mart alone? I think the above numbers consider only a non-medical mart affiliated structure.

Musky, you sure do like posting articles twice!!

 

Where did I do that?

Am I that brain dead today? (I stayed up late watching Godfather again on AMC)

 

 

^ How could you pass Rocky 1 up for the Godfather.

I think you just answered the question yourself.

 

I think you just answered the question yourself.

 

 

I cannot believe you have an emoticon for that.  Now I've seen it all!

Once upon a time, when the decision for the CC was still up in the air, Forest City said that if they were granted the building they would develop housing for Scranton Peninsula.  They even put up some drawings of what the development would look like.  It included pedestrian briges from Scranton to the CC/TT buildings on the other side of the river as well as a mock up of a new hotel just south of the new courts building.

 

While I had preferred the current site and even the one proposed on the Port Authority land over theirs, once they made that offer I leaned heavily towards the TT site.

 

I hope that now that the MM is involved, they don't forget about that offer and let Scranton still sit there undeveloped.

 

 

 

^FC already has stated the offer is null and void

musky,

 

Thanks for letting me know.  I would not have expected anything else from them.

Musky, you sure do like posting articles twice!!

 

Where did I do that?

Am I that brain dead today? (I stayed up late watching Godfather again on AMC)

 

 

I humbly apologize to the capo di tutti capi. I see that the two articles posted above are, indeed, different. Please spare me, your paisan in omerta, the fate suffered Luca Brazzi.

 

(P.S. that was the absolute best emoticon of all time.)

Musky, you sure do like posting articles twice!!

 

Where did I do that?

Am I that brain dead today? (I stayed up late watching Godfather again on AMC)

 

 

I humbly apologize to the capo di tutti capi. I see that the two articles posted above are, indeed, different. Please spare me, your paisan in omerta, the fate suffered Luca Brazzi.

 

(P.S. that was the absolute best emoticon of all time.)

 

 

Fa'getta 'bout it.

Someday - and that day may never come - I'll call upon you to do a service for me. But until that day, accept this justice as gift...

 

Now... Leave the gun... Take the Cannolis.

I have a problem with the tax increase to Cuyahoga County residents. Unfortunately, the region has sprawled to cover a number of counties, but Cuyahoga county residents are footing the bill for the amenities that everyone in the region benefits from. This is just another situation where regionalism would make sense.

 

So what do you propose as a solution?

^ While I agree with your ideas on regionalism, I don't think that is a short term solution.  Medical Mart would give up on Cleveland by the time we put together some sort of regional structure.

I have a problem with the tax increase to Cuyahoga County residents. Unfortunately, the region has sprawled to cover a number of counties, but Cuyahoga county residents are footing the bill for the amenities that everyone in the region benefits from. This is just another situation where regionalism would make sense.

 

I understand what you are saying, but all the sales and profits of said business stay in Cleveland/Cuyahoga county.

 

For instance with the NBA Finals.  Not much of the money spent by folks going to games and such was spent outside of cuyahoga county.  People came into the city to party, hang out, dine, and visit other venues.

 

That money and the taxes generated from it, stayed within Cleveland/Cuyahoga county.

 

Its a catch 22.  However, as more amenities return to the core of the city and tax abatements decrease, the city ends up the winner.

There are some methods for multi-county taxation, such as a Joint Economic Development District (I believe Akron has one in place already) or joint Regional Arts and Culture Districts. The problem you face is political will. I think you face difficulty convincing voters as they reside further and further from whatever you're building, renovating, etc. It seems like these tax-sharing districts would work better for non-capital improvements, such as marketing the region to immigrants, grants for small business generation, etc., that could be captured by anyone in the district. Even with a sales tax not going to the voting public, I think you would have difficulty garnering the support of outlying county commissioners. These elected officials represent individuals who live in the exurbs because they want to avoid high rates of taxation and are not as enticed by urban amenities ... I can't imagine, for instance, a Geauga County commissioner, recommending that Geauga County increase its sales tax at all, let alone to support a medical mart in another county altogether.

A Web site promoting a new convention center and medical mart for Cleveland debuted today.

 

The site www.AShotInTheArm.org

and a blog, too:

http://clevelandmedicalmart.wordpress.com/

You make good point about the trouble of getting regional support for capital projects. How is Cleveland+ funded?

 

Cleveland+ is a privately funded initiative - it is being championed by the Convention and Visitors Bureau of Greater Cleveland, the Greater Cleveland Partnership and TeamNEO, three nonprofit organizations that happen to all have a regional focus for their efforts.

I merged the Medical Mart and Convention Center threads, and removed some duplicate posts. Carry on...

I brought it up a few pages ago, but maybe we should just change the title.

Should you pay to bring a medical mart here?

 

Thursday, July 19, 2007

Joan Mazzolini and Sarah HollanderPlain Dealer Reporters

 

If Cleveland is to land a Medical Mart and the potential for jobs, revenue and visitors, it needs to raise more than $25 million a year, area leaders say.

 

The money is needed to build a convention center, which is a must for the project to go forward. The convention center would cost $400 million or more...

 

http://www.cleveland.com/news/plaindealer/index.ssf?/base/cuyahoga/1184833835148930.xml&coll=2

 

Ah, so we have a date.

That's good to know.

Assuming a group of citizens doesn't collect enough petition signatures to force the issue at the ballot...

And does anyone know if this has begun?

I imagine if there were, there will be a group of them downtown this weekend for Ingenuity.

 

I understand why people are upset with raising the sales tax w/o a public vote but come on...It's $.25 extra per $100!  It's chump change!  Maybe I'm too young/naive and haven't had to deal with the "horrible" taxes of Cleveland and vicinity but this seems like it's more of a reason for people to b*tch about something--"they see tax increase" and it's, "off with their heads!"  It's ok though, because everyone commuting 30-50 miles r/t each day can pay +$3.00/gal for gas... :roll:

For the record - I can afford $.25 for every $100 spent.

I understand why people are upset with raising the sales tax w/o a public vote but come on...It's $.25 extra per $100!  It's chump change!  Maybe I'm too young/naive and haven't had to deal with the "horrible" taxes of Cleveland and vicinity but this seems like it's more of a reason for people to b*tch about something--"they see tax increase" and it's, "off with their heads!"  It's ok though, because everyone commuting 30-50 miles r/t each day can pay +$3.00/gal for gas... :roll:

 

That's what I'm like. People probably lose this much change everyother day or while washing clothes, and now they are going to bitch about it? I could see if it was .25 per dollar, but come on.

 

Of course I haven't really heard too many complaints from the general populace, just news outlets like Negative Nineteen and the PD, who spin it as "The poorest city is about to get poorer."

Well, the negative I have heard, and I can understand where they are coming from, all stems around the idea that that, although the city/county will benefit as a whole, this appears to benefiting a private component of the region. Thus, they should be the ones who pay for it.

 

I understand, but I disagree.

The problem isn't that it's chump change (which it is), it's that the residents of Cleveland and Cuyahoga County feel they have have been fleeced and taxed ad nauseum. Jacobs Field, Q Arena, the Rock Hall, Browns Stadium have all been touted as "for the greater good", but their projected ROI hasn't been met. We're talking about billions in taxpayer dollars that went to projects which were mismanaged, etc. One big problem is that the same person (Tim Hagan) promised back in the early 90s that Gateway would be a huge moneymaker for the city. I'm not saying it hasn't had spinoff, or that it hasn't had some great benefits to the city - but the tens of thousands of jobs, and the hundreds of thousands in revenue never materialized. In some cases, the city's lost a ton of "chump change" because of how these projects were handled. The Cavs have never paid a dime in rent to Gateway (the non-profit running the arena) because of sweetheart deals. So here's Tim Hagan again pitching a mega-project that will be what? And how will the project be built? Ah yes, there has to be millions footed by taxpayers. He doesn't have a good track record, and honestly if people put him under scrutiny, I don't blame them a bit. I can sneeze at $.25 for every $100, but I want that money managed well - and I don't see a good history here.

 

I'm not the biggest fan of Roldo Bartimole, but he does a good job sizing up why people in Cuyahoga County have every reason to be leery of yet more tax dollars going to a project that promises the kind of spinoff the Med Mart does:

 

Scroll to the bottom, where he has one of his earlier columns about Gund Arena (now the Q), and look at how much corporate welfare was handed out by Tim Hagan (and others):

http://lakewoodbuzz.com/RoldoBartimole/RB-101806-ClevelandPlatinumWorldatQ-LakewoodOhio-RoldoBartimole.html

 

http://lakewoodbuzz.com/RoldoBartimole/RB%2002-19-06%20Gateway%20Garages%20Cuyahoga%20Cleveland%20Lakewood%20Ohio%20Roldo%20Bartimole.html

^I agree completely that the major projects of the 1990's did not have the economic impact that they touted, and I wish a different alternative comes around for the financing of the Medical Mart.

 

However would I vote again to pay for & build those major projects?  Yes.  Would I vote for the increased tax even though I want an alternative?  Yes.

 

The projects from the 90's are beacons and symbols that the average citizen can be proud of, and the Medical Mart has the potential to be great for the economy - something that we need.

I would hate to think about how downtown would look if we didn't build Gateway. Considering our economy, you have to take into account the amount of jobs that we retained because of this project as well as the new ones gained.

I agree with MayDay.

 

I think what MayDay might also be alluding to is the amount of jobs immediately felt.  Gateway promised XYZ in 9/10 years, its taken almost 15 and I don't think the area is at the initial target number of jobs promised.

 

However, spin off development in the are has picked up and as Wimwar (sorry 3231 I'm feeling nostalgic right now) states, the city would be dramtically different if Gateway had not been built.

^^^Ok

^^Agree

^Agree