But thats not what the petition is for and it should be

I don't understand why they are going after the tax and not after the commisioner's right to increase it.  There was already a law that passed that allowed the commisioners to raise taxes.  They should be petitioning again that law, not against a tax that the law allowed them to raise.

Somebody finally got it!

^ That can be a double edged sword, especially when someone with a petition asks you to sign to make sure county commissioners can not raise taxes without a vote. 

But thats not what the petition is for and it should be

I don't understand why they are going after the tax and not after the commisioner's right to increase it.  There was already a law that passed that allowed the commisioners to raise taxes.  They should be petitioning again that law, not against a tax that the law allowed them to raise.

 

Excellent point.

What is the difference between going after a tax and going after the commissioners' power to tax?  Their own literature claims  "This issue is not about supporting or not supporting the tax or about the convention center and medical mart – it's about our choice whether to raise our sales tax or not."

 

As you state, the commissioners obtained this power somehow.  I don't know if the county voted as a whole to give them this power, or how that came about, but just because they now have the power doesn't mean a group of people can't petition to make their voices heard.  This is the first time they have tried to raise the tax and it angered people to the point where they're getting signatures.  What is the problem?

 

Not to say I really agree with them.  They talk about believing in democratic principles where I, quite frankly, don't.  Lots of terrible things happen by a vote of the majority.  The majority is overrated.  If you think the tax is wrong and it goes to a vote and it passes, the tax doesn't suddenly become right, you just got hosed.

 

If people's attention spans were longer than their wicks they'd remember that these were the two guys that raised their taxes and vote them out.  Of course, these guys become so entrenched that it's rarely about something real like a voting record that costs them their spot.

Why aren't people as outraged when our federal taxes are raised by Congress?  I don't remember an opportunity to vote on any tax increases proposed by Congress!  This county tax increase is in the grand tradition of taxes in the US.  If people don't like it, then vote the commissioners out next time.  Personally, this is one of the few tax increases I support.

All county commissions in Ohio have this power. For some reason, I think this power is new. Regardless, the state legislature approved it (or Ohio voters approved it via a statewide ballot but I don't recall that).

Why aren't people as outraged when our federal taxes are raised by Congress?  I don't remember an opportunity to vote on any tax increases proposed by Congress!  This county tax increase is in the grand tradition of taxes in the US.  If people don't like it, then vote the commissioners out next time.  Personally, this is one of the few tax increases I support.

 

I'm not a lawyer, but I'm pretty sure Congress' right to levy taxes is vested in the constitution.

And the reason is because this is not a direct democracy where every governmental action, including new taxes, is decided by a vote of the people. Instead, it's a representative republic where we elect fellow citizens to make many of those decisions for us. Remember the whole uproar over taxation without representation?

ohhh...Civics Class!

I received this email last night.

Got. To. Do Something.

 

 

Today the Put It On The Ballot Team sent out this press release.  The Plain

Dealer has said that a story will be printed in Friday's paper.

 

We know that our blogger community has many opinions and stands on this

issue.  You are for the effort, you are against the effort or you are

neutral on the issue of the right to vote on tax issues.

 

Tim and I are asking you if you are so inclined to post the locations and

the opportunity for people to sign the petition.

 

Many people have expressed a desire to sign the petition, but they have not

had the opportunity.

 

Tim and I decided we could rely  more on the blogging communnity than to

trust that the Plain Dealer would follow through on what they said they

would do.

 

We would also ask that if you are so inclined to make sure that family and

friends also know about this opportunity since many of you are convinced

that they do not  read your blog.

 

Here is the press release:

 

 

For Immediate Release

August 23, 2007

Contact:  Councilman Zachary Reed

216-410-5734 or [email protected]

 

 

TAX REFERENDUM GROUP ANNOUNCES DRIVE-THRU PETITION

SIGNING

LAST CHANCE TO SIGN PETITIONS

 

Your last chance to put the sales tax issue on the

ballot by signing a petition will be Saturday, August

25, 2007 from 9:00 am to 3:00 pm.

 

Come join the putitontheballot.com volunteers at the

following drive-thru locations:

 

•      Main Cleveland Post Office, 2400 Orange Avenue,

Cleveland, 44101

 

•      Lakewood Post Office, 1475 Warren Road, Lakewood

44107

 

•      Cleveland Heights Post Office, 3 Severance Circle,

Cleveland Heights 44118

 

•      Cuyahoga County Administration Building, 1219

Ontario Street, Cleveland 44113

 

On July 26, a .25% sales tax increase was passed for

Cuyahoga County. The tax goes into effect October 1st

(for 20 years) unless 46,000 signatures of registered

Cuyahoga County voters are submitted by 4:30 pm

Saturday, August 25, 2007.

 

If the citizens of Cuyahoga County want to vote on

this issue they must turn out and sign the petition.

 

Tim and Gloria Ferris

Put It On The Ballot Team

Heres the article from the PD.

 

Cuyahoga County sales tax opponents must turn in petitions Saturday

Friday, August 24, 2007

Joan Mazzolini Plain Dealer Reporter

 

The group opposing a quarter-penny sales tax to build a Cleveland convention center has until Saturday to gather enough signatures to force the issue to a public vote.

 

The group had 30 days from the day Cuyahoga County commissioners approved the tax increase to collect signatures on petitions calling for the issue to be placed on the ballot...

 

 

more at:  http://www.cleveland.com

I have a feeling they are not anywhere near having enough VALID signatures.

 

Frank Russo, is looking for a future favor by allowing the office to remain open tomorrow. 

 

 

"We're not giving out any numbers," he said. "We're pretty confident we'll get the number."

 

At the same time, however, Reed said his group was debating whether to hand in the petitions if it did not have the minimum number.

 

If they were originally going for 90,000 signatures and were close to that, they would not have this debate.

 

What is the weather supposed to be like?  It has been wicked here in Chicago yesterday and today.

Rain tommorrow which is good.  I really don't see people making a special trip th the post office either.  I am for the increase, therefore wouldn't give out any hints on how to get the signatures, but have they tried suburban malls?  Do they have to stick with city owned or government owned properties to get the signatures? 

Usually privately owned places (malls, etc.) have restrictions on soliciting/canvassing.

Why aren't people as outraged when our federal taxes are raised by Congress?  I don't remember an opportunity to vote on any tax increases proposed by Congress!  This county tax increase is in the grand tradition of taxes in the US.  If people don't like it, then vote the commissioners out next time.  Personally, this is one of the few tax increases I support.

 

I'm not a lawyer, but I'm pretty sure Congress' right to levy taxes is vested in the constitution.

 

Actually the income tax(its actually a wage tax) was declared unconstitutional in the 1890's

Actually the income tax(its actually a wage tax) was declared unconstitutional in the 1890's

 

Without doing any research, relying solely on my (bad) memory, if my civics teacher informed me correctly, this was changed and amended in the constitution - which directly relates to what KJP posted.  Correct?

From cleveland.com

 

Effort to push back Cuyahoga County sales tax fails

Posted by Sarah Hollander August 25, 2007 16:11PM

Categories: Breaking News

 

A challenge to raising Cuyahoga County's sales tax has failed.

 

A group collecting signatures announced at 4 today it did not reach its goal.

 

More from cleveland.com http://blog.cleveland.com/metro/2007/08/effort_to_push_back_cuyahoga_c.html

WooooHoooooo  :clap:

Best news I've heard all week.

:) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :)

 

Now lets start complaining about the design of the soon to be actually built convention center :)

PD Headline: Brand new Convention center on the way, but its in America's poorest big city.

 

Excellent news. Now its up to the Medical Mart people.

This is definitely great news!!!!

:clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :shoot: :drunk: :drunk: :drunk: :drunk: :drunk: :drunk: :drunk: :drunk: :drunk: :drunk: :drunk: :drunk:

Excellent fcukin news!! :drunk:

Glad to hear that the funding is secured. Now it's time to decide where the convention center and medical mart should go.

 

While I understand there's merits/drawbacks of the different options, it's important for the community to make a decision in a reasonable period of time and not leave the Merchandise Mart folks in the lurch.

Awesome news!

My thoughts..

 

[youtube=425,350]ZmOQyyezwCQ

LOL!!

KS5214, were you alive when that song was released?  8-) :lol: 8-)

Nope.. it was still a good 4 years before all your lives were made better  :-D

I knew it. I graduated from High School the same year you were born.........ugh.  :-(

Me too. Hello fellow Class of '85er!!

 

Anyway, back to the subject at hand...........

"85 Alive"

 

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

 

Cuyahoga County sales tax petition drive fails

Quarter-percent increase won't be on ballot, takes effect Oct. 1

Sunday, August 26, 2007

Sarah Hollander

Plain Dealer Reporter

 

A petition drive to force a public vote on a quarter-percent Cuyahoga County sales tax has failed, assuring the increased rate will kick in on Oct. 1.

 

Petition circulators did not collect enough signatures by Saturday's deadline. They needed a minimum of 45,457, which is 10 percent of the votes cast for governor in Cuyahoga County last November...

 

http://www.cleveland.com/news/plaindealer/index.ssf?/base/cuyahoga/118811850985000.xml&coll=2

http://www.cleveland.com/news/plaindealer/index.ssf?/base/cuyahoga/118811922185000.xml&coll=2

so about a year ago i had an internship with an architecture firm who had some drawings of the apply decided poorly designed structure for going behind tower city. i was told that a lot of it was depended upon casinos.. but my point with this is that i know FOR FACT that the design is conceptual, but most likely that is the general idea of what is going to happen as far as location and function, but the design is not finished because there were plans for casinos and possible hotels etc. so it was made to be expanded but will not be.

 

hope they give us somethin good!

Me too. Hello fellow Class of '85er!!

 

Anyway, back to the subject at hand...........

 

Celebration was released in 1980.  I graduated that hell on earth, known as shaker in '84

I drove through Public Square at 5pm earlier this week, and the people collecting signatures on the tax seemed pretty lonely. 

 

And why they targeted Parma amongst all Cuyahoga suburbs is beyond me.  Maybe because there are a lot of seniors in parts of it?

 

Let's get this project on the move.   

Well here's my brief convention center wish list:

 

It looks good

 

It's not just some huge glass, concrete and steel structure plopped anywhere.

 

It integrates well into its surroundings.

 

It spurs off shoot development

 

Perhaps the longest shot, a 50-70 story convention hotel, if downtown.

{sigh of relief}  All right, let's nail this thing down, pick a location (I'm noping its Tower City, but frankly, almost anywhere DOWNTOWN would be agreeable to me).  Let's bring this baby to fruition and reap the possitive spinoffs it will birng.

Agreed, just as important as getting this convention center/medical mart built is the spin we put on it and the positive effects it will have on the city/region.  Aka market the living piss out of it.

Well if it ends up at Tower City, hopefully they can build on the "hole" at Superior/West 6th/Prospect. That would be a nice spot for a hotel - connected to the rest of Tower City and across the street from Stark's project. I agree with David Ellison - the petition drive raised awareness and hopefully reasonable scrutiny will keep things in check. Still, I have to throw one more celebratory song into the mix - be aware, it's very very gay ;-)

 

[youtube=425,350]fHF7xH_2SII

Sorry if this has already been posted.. but I came across this, Cleveland sounds like it really bends over backwards to get films shot here..

 

[youtube=425,350]T5NgSMzB2D8

 

However, how many films do we realistically think can be shot here in a year to keep the old convention center open and financially sound?

If my memory serves me, this was posted in the Spider Man threads

Well toooooo bad, because I don't know how to delete my own posts.

look whippersnapper, I wasn't saying that for you to delete your post, but to check the spider man post for more information on the downtown convention center becoming a movie studio.  Now that I think about it, you might want to check the "Cleveland in movies" thread as well.  Now respect your elders!  :whip:

And to rap up this off-threadedness with a music reference from the 80's, that convention center video music almost sounded like "Set it Off."

 

I bet there are plans already to go for this project from FC if it is decided to go behind Tower City.

MayDay I could kiss you!

 

I knew I was gay when I saw this movie!

 

My favorites scene!

 

I assume that's from The Wiz? Never saw it. Having lost 31.25 seconds of my life watching as much as I could just now, I realize I'm straight.

 

As for more important things than sexual orientation and reliving the 80s (OK, I take the second one back), my opinion is that the convention center needs to be built where it is easily reached from the airport by road and transit, is next to existing hotels with space for building more, accessible to touristy/leisure stuff, and is within an easy walk in all kinds of weather to/from shops, sporting venues and other places where visitors can spend money to get the spin-off benefits.

 

If the location of the convention center influences a conventioneer to stay in a downtown hotel, place an order at the merchandise mart, buys dinner and breakfast and gets back on the Rapid to Hopkins Airport, then the convention center was put in the wrong place. The location has to encourage more economic activity than that.

 

On that score, I think Tower City is the best place for it.

KJP I agree with you on most subjects, but on this I cant.

 

Speaking from a traveler, not a Clevelander.  Having the Convention center in its current downtown location makes no difference as most people are going to expense their travel cost anyway.

 

I can't see how walking 400 yards is going to make that much of a difference.  So what the Ritz and the Renaissance. 

 

You're talking about spin off benefits, why can't the new center be a catalyst for MORE spin off development.  I'll use Philly, DC as examples.  They expanded/built center in town, in locations that were not exactly popping.  Hotels, restaurants and other spin off development has occurred near their convention centers.

 

In Chicago, I have to hop in a cab to get to the convention center from Michigan Avenue or the Loop.  In Atlanta and Boston their centers were remodeled and hotels added with a direct conection.  Why can't a link between the Marriott and the new center be created?  If its built in its current location an additional hotel will be built. 

 

Most travelers are expensing their meals, cabs, lodging and other incidentals, so a location downtown isn't going to matter to them.  So putting the center in its current location is encouraging them to travel east, west and south - by foot. 

 

If they like restaurant on Euclid they are going to go to it, whether the CC is at TC or the current location.

 

I just don't see how putting the center in towercity is the end all say all best solution.

musky, that track is by four tet, it is called as serious as your life, from the album rounds.  it may indeed be some other song, since four tet is a guy with a computer sampling stuff.

 

on the news, reed mentioned something about further action.  but he was vague on details in a politician kind of way.  is this it, is it really settled?  or is there some sort of crummy eleventh hour move that they might pull?   

^I was approached by a signature collector in Tremont during the Verb Ballet thing on Friday.  He said something about how the tax increase might have been illegal because if all of the money from the increase goes only to the convention center, the increase is required to be put on the ballot.  Does anyone know if that's true?

KJP I agree with you on most subjects, but on this I cant.

 

I thinking more in terms of convenience, not cost. Just about everything a conventioneer might want is under a single roof at Tower City -- hotels, restaurants, shopping, transit line to/from airport, Gund Arena, available space for Merchandise Mart (at Higbee's, which requires walking past the windows of many stores). All of these are available today without the county having to build it or wait for someone else to build it.

 

The Malls are a lovely space -- in summer. I do not enjoy their windswept plazas in winter and will do what I can to avoid it at that time of the year. I hate wind. And compared to Chicago, Cleveland is the Windy-er City. Look it up.