I'm suprised that you guys are happy about this rumor.  I understand that the Tower City site might not be the best one, but considering Cleveland has just lost National City, Eaton and now, for a while at least, the Flats, I just can't celebrate another project's being delayed.

 

I mean, what if this is the impetus to our losing the Med Mart completely.  That would be just heartbreaking.

 

Cleveland has not lost Eaton and I'm sure that the EF project will move forward, there is just too much money invested in the infrastructure.  Lastly, we do not know the implications of NCC yet.

 

So relax.  This project has been delayed in my eyes, but if delaying it to place it in the PROPER PLACE for this generation and the next, then I'm ok with that.

What has happened to the timeline on the medmart?  Has it been put on hold until after the election is out of the way?  I know they were supposed to pick a site a while ago and that was allowed to lapse, but have they put together anything?

With a half a billion dollars of secured finance on the table, Med Mart is not leaving. Why would they want to be housed in a antiquated building when they can have one built to spec? Let the county move their offices into it. The county can secure the Mall Site for a hell of a lot less then 40M. The City should give it up for some parking and tax revenue not to mention what it would cost the City in rehabilitation and maintenance. I see a glimmer of hope for greater downtown area. Maybe another class A hotel,mmmmm  :))))

Like many, I am cautiously optimistic.  I hope the current mall site gets a second look and I hope they someday build the NCTC.

Like many, I am cautiously optimistic.  I hope the current mall site gets a second look and I hope they someday build the NCTC.

 

What he said!

What has happened to the timeline on the medmart? Has it been put on hold until after the election is out of the way? I know they were supposed to pick a site a while ago and that was allowed to lapse, but have they put together anything?

 

This is what I wrote about earlier. The Medical Mart representatives haven't been able to reach an agreement with Forest City Enterprises/Ratners -- thus the delay. Their frustration, according to two sources, has led the Med Mart to the old convention center site. FCE/Ratners may come back to the Med Mart folks with a sweetened offer for locating at Tower City. And then again they may not......

I hope MMPI takes a long hard look at  East Coast projects and the way they do business,

A little bit more:  Apparently the folks at the Medical Mart were never that excited about locating at Tower City, according to a third source with the city. Med Mart reps seem to want a build-to-suit structure with special-sized floor plates and technology galore, not to retrofit an old department store.

YES! :clap:

A little bit more: Apparently the folks at the Medical Mart were never that excited about locating at Tower City, according to a third source with the city. Med Mart reps seem to want a build-to-suit structure with special-sized floor plates and technology galore, not to retrofit an old department store.

 

Great info.  I don't blame Med Mart for seeing it as they do... it isn't clear to me why the TC plan was ever seriously considered.  Square peg in a very oblong, narrow hole.  FCE needs to keep pursuing department store operators for their department store space.  As downtown residential keeps growing, they'll find one.   

I don't blame Med Mart for seeing it as they do... it isn't clear to me why the TC plan was ever seriously considered. 

 

Because the Ratners are huge campaign contributors to council members, the mayor, county commissioners, congress people, etc. etc. The Ratners also have great influence over the Greater Cleveland Partnership, which was tasked to conduct the site selection. Why did elected officials give the GCP that task? Because the Ratners asked told them to, so that GCP could favor the Tower City site.

 

Thus, money was driving the site selection, not merit. And that's why so many things get fucked up in this and other cities.

its been over 2 years

 

still no convention center/med mart

 

 

its been over 2 years

 

still no convention center/med mart

 

 

 

Man and how exactly would YOU manage this multiple faceted private/public project? 

its been over 2 years

 

still no convention center/med mart

 

Perhaps with more information, background and experience you may gain a realistic expectation on the turnaround times for publicly funded projects such as this. Do some research, though you will probably not like what you learn.

KJP, send him down to Cincinnati to check out the Banks project and he will pray the convention center doesn't take as long!

its been over 2 years

 

still no convention center/med mart

 

Perhaps with more information, background and experience you may gain a realistic expectation on the turnaround times for publicly funded projects such as this. Do some research, though you will probably not like what you learn.

 

Come on KJP you know all you have to do to get a project like this finished is think about it real hard, click your heals together three times, snap your fingers... and BAM! convention center / medical mart.  I mean that's the way it works in every other city in America, why not here?

(click, click, click, snap!)

 

Nope still nothing happening....

^ But you have to BELIEVE... :)

its been over 2 years

 

still no convention center/med mart

 

Perhaps with more information, background and experience you may gain a realistic expectation on the turnaround times for publicly funded projects such as this. Do some research, though you will probably not like what you learn.

 

Come on KJP you know all you have to do to get a project like this finished is think about it real hard, click your heals together three times, snap your fingers... and BAM! convention center / medical mart.  I mean that's the way it works in every other city in America, why not here?

 

Simple, its cuz cleveland is in a downward death spiral and nothing can be done to save the city, duh!  :evil: :roll:

Is there any recent news on the progress of this project??? Please tell me yes!!!

This thread started Dec. 2004. Talk of a new convention center started in 1994. This is a major project meant to change the entire image of the city and the downtown area. Take a deep breath and pray that MMPI has the wisdom to do the right thing. Keep pressure on your public officials. Be realistic about time tables given private influence and greed at the thought of dipping into the publics pocket to the tune of a billion dollars. Look at the quality of the city "leadership". Look at the prevalence of corruption within the county. It is good to go slow and throughly examine the process and site selection especially at this critical time of finalization.   

  Is there any possibility that the MM could be incorporated into the Jacobs property on the square, simliar to the NYC idea, then whichever site the city chooses for a convention center would be near the MM?  Am I wrong in thinking or does the MM have to be connected to the CC?

They had to hook them together because by law a convention only center would have required a vote on public financing. A pretty creative way to push a tax without the public voting. What's done, is done. 

^The voters approved such an act previously. We allowed the commissioners to act on our behalf. I'm sick of hearing people say they raised our taxes without a vote.

New York prepares its own Medical Mart

http://blog.cleveland.com/metro/2008/11/medical_mart_competition.html

Posted by Jim Nichols and Joe Guillen, Plain Dealer Reporters

November 09, 2008 06:15AM

 

A major threat to Cleveland's proposed Medical Mart is growing in New York, where developers say they are ready to start building a $1 billion World Product Centre.

Some advocates of the Cleveland-based project, including Cleveland Clinic Chief Executive Toby Cosgrove, say there's no room for both. This region, they worry, may be beaten out on what they see as its most promising economic-revival engine...

fred nance doesn't see that competition as much of a threat?  :wtf:

 

we just walked right by that site this afternoon coming back from the hells kitchen :evil: flea market & the garden center. there is nothing going on. hopefully the financing troubles keep it that way.

 

 

here's the ap blurb version of this news:

 

Cleveland medical mart backers worry over NYC plan

 

November 9, 2008

 

CLEVELAND (AP) — Advocates of a proposed medical mart in Cleveland are concerned that a similar $1 billion New York skyscraper could be built first.

 

Backers of this city’s proposed facility say there’s no room in the medical field for both facilities. The medical mart — an exhibit hall dedicated to medical products and trade shows — is part of a project designed to boost northeast Ohio’s struggling economy that includes a new convention center in downtown Cleveland.

 

“This is one of those things where only one of the facilities can exist,” said Baiju Shah, director of BioEnterprise, a University Circle incubator for health care businesses. “You want this to happen here, to boost Cleveland’s image as a leader in medical technology and a good place to do business in that field.”

 

The New York proposal’s progress should push Cleveland’s medical mart project forward, Cleveland Clinic chief executive Toby Cosgrove said.

 

The two projects differ dramatically in scale, but both would create a central place where makers of a wide array of health care-related products and technology could showcase offerings to buyers from the medical industry.

 

Both developers envision a place where competing suppliers can show wares ranging from rubber gloves, carpeting and desks to cutting-edge drugs, surgical-implant gadgets and multimillion-dollar radiology-imaging machines.

 

 

Why is it that rubber gloves are always mentioned in these articles?  How many hospital executives are running around to various global locations trying on frikking rubber gloves?  First of all, they're usually not rubber or latex anymore due to allergies, but that's another argument. 

 

I picture the Med Mart as a little more high-end than displays of cotton balls and tongue dispensers...

Let's see, NYC, the most powerful city in the world and doesn't need MM, is all set to build theirs, and yet here in Cleveland, a city that is in dire straights economically and needs it badly, is off picking it's collective nose as usual.  And despite Fred Nance's happy talk, if New York starts building before ours, we're toast... Our leaders, esp the Commissioners, are hopeless.  Tower City or the Mall: just pick a site and do the damn thing already... why always the foolish drama in this town?

Let's see, NYC, the most powerful city in the world and doesn't need MM, is all set to build theirs, and yet here in Cleveland, a city that is in dire straights economically and needs it badly, is off picking it's collective nose as usual.  And despite Fred Nance's happy talk, if New York starts building before ours, we're toast... Our leaders, esp the Commissioners, are hopeless.  Tower City or the Mall: just pick a site and do the damn thing already... why always the foolish drama in this town?

::)

^^And statements like "we're toast" aren't "foolish drama"?

 

There needs to be some urgency, and this whole Tower City gambit has slowed everything down.  FCE and the chamber should back off.  Their proposal is fundamentally flawed.  If we don't get this done now, it will be their fault.  People have pointed out for a while that the entire site selection dance-- the water testing, floating the oddball options-- all of it was designed to make the FCE choice appear objective and well thought out.  It's time for everyone to call that what it is and move forward, quickly, in the other direction.  Any stalemate at this point is perverse.

^The voters approved such an act previously. We allowed the commissioners to act on our behalf. I'm sick of hearing people say they raised our taxes without a vote.

This is exactly rationalization.I have heard him say as much. Arrogance, elitism, disdain and a perversion of the democratic process. 

And it's the law, created not by elected officials but voted in by the people. If you don't like giving the commissioners the power to increase the sales tax, why did you vote to give elected officials that power? If you voted against it, then you at least have the right to bitch -- but against your fellow voters, not the elected officials who were granted that power.

And, Hagan was not a commissioner when the initiative passed.

Tax'n Tim and Dim-ora voted for:PLJ voted no and wanted it put to the voters. I believe PLJ's to be the correct position, but it is water over the dam. Let us move forward.

They need to move forward on this pronto. Pull the trigger and go with the current convention center. The land behind Tower City will still be a parking lot and it will still be used, as opposed to the problem of an empty building/convention center in the middle of downtown . With the current economic climate and the suspension of the East Bank project, they have a half of Billion dollar project that has funding sitting there. A project of this scale will put idled workers to work and do a ton for the collective state of mind of Cleveland. Costs of raw materials are plummeting and maybe if we are  lucky we will be able to get this built for what they have collected in sales tax and have enough left over to buy everyone in the county an ice cream cone.

 

Also with fingers crossed, if we start now this project would be opening just as the world economy is picking up steam again and those companies that had been delaying purchasing medical equipment due to budget constraints will be looking to buy. Hopefully they are willing to fly to Cleveland to listen to sales pitches, browse and check things out  before purchasing.

Tax'n Tim and Dim-ora voted for:PLJ voted no and wanted it put to the voters. I believe PLJ's to be the correct position, but it is water over the dam. Let us move forward.

 

To be clear, I meant Hagan was not Commissioner when the initiative to give County Commissioners the say on such taxing matters was placed before Ohio voter's.

i was kinda waiting for curbed blog to get on this today:

 

 

Extell Tells Medical Industry NOT To Go Back to Ohio

 

Monday, November 10, 2008, by Joey

 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

 

A breakdown of the tower-to-be.

 

 

 

 

 

old copa site

 

 

 

 

The medical community of Cleveland is, like, so pissed at us right now, and it all has to do with the World Product Centre. The World Product whatnow? OK, quick refresher: The West Side Rail Yards will allegedly one day become the commercial/residential/parkland paradise known as Hudson Yards. Banking on the revival of the Far West Side, developers bought up all the land around Hudson Yards to construct their own big boys. The Copacabana nightclub at 555 West 33rd Street (at Eleventh Avenue), near the Yards and a short skip from the Javits Center, was one of the plots of land gobbled up—by Gary Barnett's Extell. The megadeveloper has plans to build a 60-story office tower called the World Product Centre on the site, and now that those plans are out in the open, that's what has Cleveland in a tizzy.

 

The World Product Centre, designed by Kohn Pedersen Fox with interiors by FXFOWLE, will be completely dedicated to the medical industry. It will have offices, exhibit space, an auditorium for presentations and "incubator" support for buyers and sellers of medical-industry products. According to the new World Product Centre website, the tower will open in the winter of 2013 (the design is currently being debated over at Wired New York). Check out the 7-train entrance in the rendering above. Snazz.

 

Now, for years Cleveland has been planning its own "Medical Mart" backed by the Cleveland Clinic and local electeds. But as the Cleveland Plain Dealer reports, the plan has had some hangups for a while, and apparently the medical industry can't support two of these things. So which will get built first? The Plain Dealer's Metro blog had this to say about the WPC:

 

But it has one huge hitch that gives its stuck-in-muck Cleveland competition an edge: financing. The proposal here has public funding accumulating at a rate of $115,000 per day, $42 million a year for 20 years that also would produce a convention center. World Product Centre is searching for private financing amid economic turmoil of historic proportions.

 

And with the slow pace of action at the Hudson Yards—there may actually be a deal one of these days—we're not quite sure lenders are rushing to pay for this tower. Cool renderings, though.

 

· World Product Centre [worldproductcentre.com]

· New York prepares its own Medical Mart [Metro]

· The GiraSole Coming to Hudson Yards? [Curbed]

 

 

http://curbed.com/archives/2008/11/10/extell_tells_medical_industry_not_to_go_back_to_ohio.php#more

 

 

PUFF!

Compare costs of living,hotel, meals,entertainment and construction. Cost and access to medical and educational facilities for incubator start ups.The value is here and that is no small consideration in the current economic climate, which is going to continue for some time. Let's look at their financing. They have none and that will be a tough nut. Sleep well. Typical developer hype. It reminds me of.....

I'm wondering if the increased hidden cost due to the instability of the Cuyahoga river bed is stalling things -- in addition to FCE's tiresome antics.  I just don't see how the MM people are going to move forward with Cleveland's project if NYC starts building; 2 such projects probably don't make sense esp in the current economic climate.  Plus, why should they continue fooling around with a Cleveland that can't make up it's mind where to build it in 3 years and sacrifice the glitz and greater market access of New York? 

Anywhere you dig a hole you never know for sure, regardless of studies,till the digg'n starts. They will continue because the financing is in place. It is not possible for NY to finance, break ground and complete before us. Look for MMPI's choice before Christmas and a vote in January. That will, in all likelihood, will put a real chill on bankers financing such a huge project in NY. I would think the problem right now is how does the city appear to act in good faith on the Mall Site with with so much public scrutiny and still keep certain benefactors happy.  and are in a tough spot along with some others who have basking in the largess

 

I suppose it's possible MMPI could figure both sites belong to morons and give up but that is not likely.

Cleveland could get screwed on this because of their slow movement on making progress.  I've been following this from afar for several years.  A page earlier, someone stated that it is typical for convention center decisions to take this long.  I disagree.  It definitely didn't take Indianapolis long to make the decision to pick a site and build its $650 million Lucas Oil Stadium (LOS) and $300 million expansion of its convention center.  With LOS across the street and linked via underground tunnel to the expanded convention center, the convention exhibit space in the combined LOS and Convention Center is about 750,000 sq. feet.    A complex of four hotels linked to the convention complex, totalling over 1700 rooms - with a 1000 room, 30 story JW Marriott is also being built right now - adding to the existing 6000 hotel rooms in downtown Indy.  The entire process of coming up with the financing plan, picking the site and building the new stadium took about three years.  As soon as LOS was completed in August of 2008, they started tearing down the RCA Dome and will begin building the 275,000 sq. foot convention center expansion (on the site of the former RCA Dome) next year.  The expansion will be completed in 2010.  The Super Bowl will be held in Indy in 2012.  I would hate to see this great opportunity for Cleveland lost - primarily due to its inability to move quickly.  And to think that the $400 million + financing plan is just sitting there waiting.  It's terrible.  If Cleveland can't get its act together real soon - it deserves to continue dying a slow death. 

Cleveland could get screwed on this because of their slow movement on making progress.  I've been following this from afar for several years.   A page earlier, someone stated that it is typical for convention center decisions to take this long.   I disagree.  It definitely didn't take Indianapolis long to make the decision to pick a site and build its $650 million Lucas Oil Stadium (LOS) and $300 million expansion of its convention center.  With LOS across the street and linked via underground tunnel to the expanded convention center, the convention exhibit space in the combined LOS and Convention Center is about 750,000 sq. feet.    A complex of four hotels linked to the convention complex, totalling over 1700 rooms - with a 1000 room, 30 story JW Marriott is also being built right now - adding to the existing 6000 hotel rooms in downtown Indy.   The entire process of coming up with the financing plan, picking the site and building the new stadium took about three years.  As soon as LOS was completed in August of 2008, they started tearing down the RCA Dome and will begin building the 275,000 sq. foot convention center expansion (on the site of the former RCA Dome) next year.  The expansion will be completed in 2010.  The Super Bowl will be held in Indy in 2012.  I would hate to see this great opportunity for Cleveland lost - primarily due to its inability to move quickly.   And to think that the $400 million + financing plan is just sitting there waiting.   It's terrible.   If Cleveland can't get its act together real soon - it deserves to continue dying a slow death.  

 

ummmm.... so it took Indianapolis just over 3 years to find a financing plan, pick a site and build a stadium.  This iteration of the convention center has been going on about 2 years, and if like mentioned a few posts up (and I've heard the same thing) that MMPI makes their case within about a month, and the commissioners vote in January... well... then we're on pretty much the same schedule as the Indianapolis project.  If there was any delay it's been the 6 months directly attributed to coddling forest city, which is nothing new in this town.

<a href="http://www.newsnet5.com/health/17965392/detail.html">Medical Mart To Further Expand City's Medical Image</a>

 

POSTED: 2:30 pm EST November 12, 2008

UPDATED: 6:08 pm EST November 12, 2008

 

CLEVELAND -- Slowly Cleveland is being redefined. The mills are gone and hospitals have emerged as greater Cleveland's biggest provider of jobs. And soon, the new Cleveland Medical Mart will help further expand this city's medical image.

 

Fred Nance, chairman of the Site Selection Committee for the Medical Mart said, "We have concluded that the river front site and the Higbee building are the best location."

 

Tax dollars are already being collected to build a national Medical Mart downtown, with a new accompanying convention center, all of it to be patterned after the mammoth Merchandise Mart of Chicago.

 

The people who run the Merchandise Mart in Chicago will be running the Medical Mart in Cleveland and they're already working on attracting major medical shows to our city.

 

Anyone from anywhere looking to buy any state-of-the-art medical, hospital, surgical or general health care products will come to Cleveland. The Medical Mart will be one-stop shopping.

 

"The feedback has been very positive. The interest in this project is very strong," said Mark Falanga, senior vice president of the Merchandise Mart.

 

Falanga explained how the Medical Mart would resemble the Merchandise Mart.

 

"The Medical Mart in Cleveland is really a version of what we have here in Chicago," Falanga said. "We're really creating a marketplace, a place where buyers and sellers can come together to conduct their business efficiently."

 

And a new convention center in Cleveland to accompany the Medical Mart would likely draw medical shows here all year long.

 

"You know Clevelanders often don't believe something good is coming their way until they see it in the ground. How much of a reality is the Medical Mart?" NewsChannel5’s Ted Henry asked.

 

Falanga answered, "Well we're 110 percent committed to it. We think there's really no probability of the project going south on us."

 

Chicago's Mart draws 33,000 people daily to its mammoth retail displays, shows and conventions. Nobody expects Cleveland's Mart to be so big, but if Cleveland draws just 10 percent of the 571 annual medical shows and conventions in America, it can be a great success.

 

Myron Maurer, senior vice president/general manager of Merchandise Mart Properties, says the biggest plus for a successful Medical Mart in Cleveland is the Cleveland Clinic.

 

"That's the real draw, and that it's feeding off of that," Maurer said.

 

It was when the Merchandise Mart people came to Cleveland from Chicago that the Cleveland Medical Mart was born.

 

"We were invited to Cleveland by Dr. Toby Cosgrove," Falanga explained. "He introduced the idea to us then that Cleveland should be the home for the first Medical Mart in this country"

 

The Cleveland Clinic's Toby Cosgrove envisioned a Medical Mart drawing more national attention to Cleveland one day, along with prestige and dollars. But his idea is not without criticism.

 

Ted Henry will have that part of the story on Thursday, Nov. 13 on NewsChannel5 at 6. He will also take a closer look at how the Cleveland Clinic and all of Cleveland's hospitals and medical research projects can enhance the success of Cleveland's Medical Mart and the city.

links..............please include links.

Chicago's Mart draws 33,000 people daily to its mammoth retail displays, shows and conventions.

 

Wow, that is some crazy number.

 

I just hope the mayor doesn't let the ball drop on this. We need a Chicago type mayor to get things done in this town, this guy is a sleep walk. Although I would prefer the mall site, we just need to get it done. Looking back it was critical that TaxinTim put the tax in place. Can you imagine trying to get financing done at this present time, it would set us back 5 years.

The title is the link :)

 

Chicago's Mart draws 33,000 people daily to its mammoth retail displays, shows and conventions.

 

Wow, that is some crazy number.

 

I just hope the mayor doesn't let the ball drop on this. We need a Chicago type mayor to get things done in this town, this guy is a sleep walk. Although I would prefer the mall site, we just need to get it done. Looking back it was critical that TaxinTim put the tax in place. Can you imagine trying to get financing done at this present time, it would set us back 5 years.

 

Are your above comments accurate?  I don't want to pounce, but before (potentially) assigning blame, please make sure you know the proper players involved and accountable for this project.

Interesting that the MMPI people didn't comment on the location... just fred nance of the forest city enterprises site selection committee.

Regardless of what Fast Talk'n and have concluded, there is no site selected yet. This is the  PR Machine working overtime.