evidently the cleveland.com mutants aren't all that happy about this.  how shocking

well this is certainly a big step.  there's still a long way to go.

There were preliminary renderings of the Tower CIty site...has anyone seen any possible renderings for this site?

I may be in the minority, but I think Tim Hagan put the screws to everyone who wanted to drag it out

Woo hoo! Great news!

All is well.

Any links to renderings of the mall site?  I don't know what to think, other than I am sitting in class and should not be commenting on UO.  :-D

While they probably won't do this upfront I hope that they build the convention center with an expectation that someday it will be connected to a new multi-model station at the railroad tracks.

these were the last renderings that had been made available for the mall site.  I don't know if MMPI has taken it in a different direction during their study.  Also note there are two versions here, the west mall site, and the north mall site.  Who knows which they were thinking of.

 

http://www.conventioncleveland.com/la.html

as a person who goes to conventions, those saying that its better in tower city are entitled to their opinion, but I feel you are wrong.

 

Walking a few blocks and potentially increasing street activity is best for a site already owned by the city.

 

This is just BS.

Playing both sides of the fence? You've busted my chops from the get go. Everything I have post has been the TRUTH.

What the hell are you talking about?  I've been for the mall site since day one!

Look at this entire thread and you will see MTS has advocated  for the mall site since this thread started!

I've contacted my council person, the mayor and had an indepth conversation with a county commissioner.

Please make sure your talking points are correct before trying to nail me to the cross!

The merchandise mart for the cleveland medical mart site was changed from the information they had earlier and simply says

 

The Cleveland Medical Mart & Convention Center site is currently

undergoing exciting new developments. Please visit us again soon.

 

I was just looking at the original timetable from way back when and it statedthe convention center was to start construction in early 09'. When do you guys thing construction will start at this point?

Land acquisition, moving Co. offices to guess 6 months to a year.

I am VERY pleasantly surprised. I would love to know the backstory behind this decision.

 

While they probably won't do this upfront I hope that they build the convention center with an expectation that someday it will be connected to a new multi-model station at the railroad tracks.

 

Based on who was named ODOT director today (see http://209.51.133.155/cms/index.php/news_releases/more/all_aboard_ohio_cheers_molitoris_earning_odot_helm/), you may see this sooner rather than later.

 

Also, for those of you wondering what in the Hootenany he's talking about, see:

http://www.urbanohio.com/forum2/index.php/topic,17673.0.html

Good decision!  AAAAAA+++++++++ WOULD CHOOSE CURRENT SITE AGAIN!!111!1eleventy

Fantabulicious!!!  :-o  This is the big domino of downtown Cleveland.  Everything will start increasing in value surrounding the CC.  This decision should affect the Port's decisions which should affect Wolstein's development. These development decisions will influence Stark's decision about how to proceed on Pesht..  Cuyahoga County can start again thinking of where to relocate their workers. 

  I know of at least one company thats looking for more space to relocate in downtown Cleveland and this should push them to make a decision sooner rather than delay due to the general economy.

I see the Huntington Building being converted to county offices, unless Forest City gets a bone and the county moves into the Higbee Building.  Don't know the logistics of that, but just throwing it out there.  In the beginning of this whole conversation I was all for the TC site, but as time went on, the current site really makes the most sense.  And throw in a passenger rail hub with connection to the 2 other C's, Lorain, RTA's service, and a hopefully expanded Amtrak rail schedule...  The quicker the AmShack gets demolished the better. 

In a way I feel like Admiral Ackbar when the super Star Destroyer was vaporized in 'Return of the Jedi' but obviously there's a lot of things that need to be played out. Still, as much criticism as the commissioners have earned recently, I think they've definitely made a good choice.

wow awesome news! what excites me the most are the architectural possibilities and design issues with the mall site are so much more interesting and beautiful than all the other sites. its gonna be a deusy!

^ As one of the probably many star wars geeks on here, that just made my day.

 

The shot of Ackbar as the Executor goes crashing into the Death Star is one of my favorites of that battle.

 

 

This, combined with KJP's note about the new ODOT director gives me hopes.  Who's up for buying a bar on St. Clair to start the connection/crawl to the Warehouse District?

 

 

^ Awesome !

I have been critical of the mayors non-involvement in this from the start. I really think his recent decision to get more involved created an urgency to speed this thing up. We need this mayor to lead and get pissed when things don't happen, I applaud his efforts. Big city mayors can have a great influence on things when they throw there weight around, they hold all of the cards. Now while he his on a roll, if i was him I would go knock on the front door of the chairman of the Eaton Corp. and say...uh we need to talk...and your not leaving. But thats another thread...

YEAH!!!  Thanks to all those involved, even though the process was bullsh!t, a quality site was chosen for this town!!!!  WHOHOO!!!!!!!!!!!

:clap: I can't believe this rediculous saga is finally over.  At least the best decision was made, certainly didn't see that coming.  It's a relief to know that we're a step closer to getting the CC/MM actually built. 

This is the greatest "Hallelujah" moment I've had regarding a large scale planning decision for Cleveland in years.  Now lets see it actually proceed as planned.

I know I read it a while back but I wasn't sure. The plan is to bring down the existing convention center then or whats the plan that they had.

Call me architecturally retarded, but explain to me the renderings.  The cables go from above ground to under the mall...and that supports the mall?  The renderings look great, but I just dont get it.  The site will be under the mall?

I see the Huntington Building being converted to county offices, unless Forest City gets a bone and the county moves into the Higbee Building.  Don't know the logistics of that, but just throwing it out there.  In the beginning of this whole conversation I was all for the TC site, but as time went on, the current site really makes the most sense.  And throw in a passenger rail hub with connection to the 2 other C's, Lorain, RTA's service, and a hopefully expanded Amtrak rail schedule...  The quicker the AmShack gets demolished the better. 

 

I agree!

This is the greatest "Hallelujah" moment I've had regarding a large scale planning decision for Cleveland in years.  Now lets see it actually proceed as planned.

 

Did you do this X?

 

Call me architecturally retarded, but explain to me the renderings.  The cables go from above ground to under the mall...and that supports the mall?  The renderings look great, but I just dont get it.  The site will be under the mall?

 

It's under the mall now.  As long as they don't FU Public Hall I'll be fine.

 

 

 

 

 

ok i am very excited, and i love the shot of Ackbar! lots of good star wars references hahaha.

 

so my question is.. what effort has been announced as to how green this building is going to be?

 

the convention center in pittsburg has the most national attention because of how big it is, and that its LEED certified. what about our new convention center? thats what i want to know next

It's hard to believe that people are as dumb as those who post on Cleveland.com.

 

Borrowing from Admiral Akbar, and relating to FCE's alleged string-pulling of politicians, "We can't repel firepower of that magnitude!"  Well, I think we just did.

 

Great choice; great site.  Now, let's get it built.

Well the channel 3 news reported that Officials said the current convention center on Lakeside will be brought down and the new convention center and medical mart will be built on its foundation. What does that really mean and how are they gonna build this?

This development can help provide a true connection to the lake from downtown, right?

 

If I'm not mistaken, one of the advantages of this choice was it would allow pedestrian access across what is now train tracks, over to the Rock Hall, Science Center, Browns Stadium, etc.

"It's a trap!"

Everybody needed this after the past few months.  What a weird day though. 

 

Monrning-- Wolstien busts out surprise new plan.

By Lunch-- New plan goes from zero to totally legitimate.

Afternoon-- PD is confused but posts articles wildly.  PD is being played, or maybe there's mutiny, or both.

Evening--  Rejoicing.  I'm glad it all worked out, but I really want to know what went on in those meetings.  I would like to know what people's positions were.  We deserve an explanation.

 

Despite all that, super cool.  My favorite part of it is we get rid of that county building.  We get rid of all that crap on the mall and remake the whole thing.  Tower City will definitely get more business.  Everything's good for everyone.     

 

Unfortunately the deal is far from done. 

 

 

http://www.wcpn.org/index.php/WCPN/news/16131/

 

 

Cuyahoga County officials and Merchandise Mart Properties Inc. of Chicago have decided on a site for a new medical mart and convention center in downtown Cleveland. ideastream®'s Rick Jackson reports.

Cuyahoga County’s commissioners voted unanimously to build on the property surrounding and including the current Cleveland Convention Center - on the downtown mall between St. Clair and Lakeside Avenues.

 

After years of discussion, county commissioners spent one last day in meetings with officials from Chicago’s Merchandise Mart Properties.... who offered more detail, and their own recomendations about three potential sites.

 

Their input is critical, as MMPI will own the center for 20 years, operate the Medical Mart, and be responsible for construction cost overruns.

In announcing the decision, attorney and broker Fred Nance explained that among several compelling reasons for building there - the commissioners felt one reason stood out.

 

FRED NANCE: “The most recent cost estimates from MMPI indicated that construction at the Mall site would be approximately $108M less than construction at the Tower City site.”

 

Also crucial in the Mall C site selection was timing, said MMPI Senior Vice President Mark Falanga.

 

MARK FALANGA: “We plan to re-use the auditorium, and in re-using that, we could get to market very quickly with that.”

 

Getting to market quickly is important because developers in New York City are rumored to be considering a similar project. Falanga says having the possibility of small shows coming to Cleveland in one year… will give Cleveland a great advantage.

 

But there are contingencies to the selection.

The engineering process that will allow builders to use pre-existing foundations must be verified, and the county still must purchase three parcels of property that are in private hands.

 

On that matter, Commissioner Tim Hagan was adamant that negotiations not be allowed to grow contentious.

 

COMMISIONER TIM HAGAN: “We’re not going to be wedded to that site, we’ll move somewhere else if the property owner tries to hold us up - that’s what we’re addressing here. This is after all, in the end, public money. And if these individuals who own property want to see this city and the county thrive, they ought to be a part of that without gouging the public.”

 

Commissioners passed a one quarter percent sales tax in July of 2007 that will fund $400 million dollars of the new downtown facility. The total price tag currently stands at 425 million, which they say could change as the project progresses. They hope to break ground by the end of the year.

 

^if my info is correct, the "3 parcels" refers to the land where the non-descript office building on St. Clair is. This is the generic building to the immediate north of the Marriot Hotel. It might also include the Sportsman's Grille. MMPI wants to put the medical mart at that location. I don't know if they wanted to tear down that building and build anew or if they would just retrofit it. I'd guess that they'd rather build a new structure that conforms to their specific needs.

 

I haven't heard anything about MMPI needing to use the land where the County currently has its offices recently, but that idea was thrown around awhile back.

Downtown, you sure do know how to make a guy lose his woody!  However, this is nothing we didn't already know.

 

The media is horrible for putting NYC into this.  Who cares, they can't get funding, its not a competition.

Well, I was excited until I saw THAT. Thanks, killjoy! ;)

Everybody needed this after the past few months. What a weird day though.

 

Monrning-- Wolstien busts out surprise new plan.

By Lunch-- New plan goes from zero to totally legitimate.

Afternoon-- PD is confused but posts articles wildly. PD is being played, or maybe there's mutiny, or both.

Evening-- Rejoicing. I'm glad it all worked out, but I really want to know what went on in those meetings. I would like to know what people's positions were. We deserve an explanation.

 

Despite all that, super cool. My favorite part of it is we get rid of that county building. We get rid of all that crap on the mall and remake the whole thing. Tower City will definitely get more business. Everything's good for everyone.

 

I don't really think with the Mall selection that Tower City would see enough new business to make a huge difference. After hearing so much from both sides of the argument, I became pretty indifferent to the site selection. There are definite potential benefits to the City with each location. To think that one site was SO much better than the other is short-sited. I do think that TC would have attracted more conventions, but the current location is somewhat better from an urban planning standpoint (what would we have done with that white elephant ??). I have become rather bored with the anti-Forest City bent and the conspiracy theorists on this board--in the end I'd much rather have a site that is best for the City. If that site would have benefitted FCE as well, then so be it.

 

Downtown, you sure do know how to make a guy lose his woody! 

 

As a straight man " not that there's anything wrong with that" I will take that as a compliment.

 

Why is it that the "major" media outlets in this town are usually incapable of reporting important parts of a story? We know the PeeDee is not keeping it out of the story to give the story the most optimistic outlook.

 

I believe MMPI basically told the three stooges "THIS IS THE CHOICE" and not "Here is what you should consider." I would love to see Forrest City put a pro vs. con list together for both sites. It would be very comical.

 

 

 

 

 

Great choice by the city. let's not waste any more time and get building!!!!

 

COMMISIONER TIM HAGAN: Were not going to be wedded to that site, well move somewhere else if the property owner tries to hold us up - thats what were addressing here. This is after all, in the end, public money. And if these individuals who own property want to see this city and the county thrive, they ought to be a part of that without gouging the public.

 

 

I wouldn't worry about that. A politician always keeps their options open.

See my Realneo cross-posting:

 

Mall location picked for Med/Con

http://realneo.us/content/mall-location-picked-medcon

 

 

Although many still have doubts as to the actual benefit or success a Med Mart/Convention Center investment will have, the fact that the damn location decision has been made is a relief...particularly given the fact the Mall site prevailed.

 

Let's move on as we keep an eye on the broken public process this has experienced to-date and work to demand and affect improvement in the processes as well as begin to focus on other important economic and workforce development issues that need broad community and regional support.

 

Those of us who worked on the Put-It-On-The-Ballot effort are still awaiting the actual County/MMPI development agreement (hopefully quickly forthcoming) and specifics of the plans/costs.

 

The City’s Administration and our Council must be prudent in our role in the project, being stewards of this important asset. If the Med/Con is going forward, I am happy that we'll see our existing facility rehabilitated (the Public Auditorium and all of its amenities) – see the DH Ellison Co.’s web site dedicated to the Group Plan and check out the photos of some of the remarkable features of the spaces inside the Public Auditorium. (one of my personal favorites is the Little Theater which is situated adjacent to and west of the Music Hall):

 

http://groupplan.dhellison.com/buildings.php?ss=ConventionCtrPhotos

Clearly this is a watershed moment in the arduous and poorly executed Public/private process and it will not be a done deal until the doors are opened.

 

I hope to see plans and engineering docs to be revealed soon.  I spoke to Council President Sweeney before the announcement and the County Administrator right after the announcement and am anxious for the City to finally play a substantive role in this project of which we represent more than a third of the tax revenue that will pay for this.

 

I assume that historic tax credits will be pursued for the Public Auditorium component, and like others have heard that plans for the primary convention facility will be to completely gut and construct from scratch a new facility, underground in replacement of the existing facility.  The exciting potential as mentioned in other posts is that of a rail connection and the potential utilization of the overlook to Lake Erie. 

 

There needs to be additional work on other potential funding sources as this is a major public investment that is building or re-building on our City's historic Group Plan, so we have to do everything we can to get this right!  The fact that the Mall site was picked is a good beginning and re-birth of this very long anticipated project.

 

Sincerely,

Brian Cummins

Ward 15, Cleveland City Council Rep.

[email protected]

216-459-8400

 

I don't really think with the Mall selection that Tower City would see enough new business to make a huge difference. After hearing so much from both sides of the argument, I became pretty indifferent to the site selection. There are definite potential benefits to the City with each location. To think that one site was SO much better than the other is short-sited. I do think that TC would have attracted more conventions, but the current location is somewhat better from an urban planning standpoint (what would we have done with that white elephant ??). I have become rather bored with the anti-Forest City bent and the conspiracy theorists on this board--in the end I'd much rather have a site that is best for the City. If that site would have benefitted FCE as well, then so be it.

 

 

Amen!

Random question for English majors related to the structure:

 

On the Auditorium, the words "builded by her citizens..." are enscribed.  Usually, the past tense of "to build" is "built," just as the past tense of "to found" is "found," not "founded."  Thus, I am assuming there must be some rule that I am unaware of.  Anyone know it?  :|

It's old, British English, or you could find it in the Bible.

 

http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/builded

Well I feel really stupid now. I got off work early yesterday soon after the anouncment that there was no anouncement and moped around most of the evening and didn't look at UO out of frustration over getting my hopes up.

 

To some degree I agree with those of you that had stopped caring where they build this darn thing. I prefered the current site, but I really just wanted a decision made. I'm a little surprised that they made the right decision, pleasantly surprised.

 

^^Builded is an archaic word that means the same as built. I thought it looked wrong the first time I read it too.

says his is "concerned" about the foundation at the Mall. Why is he? It is not his or the city's problem. It is MMPI's problem. They are responsible for cost overruns.

His problem is how to avoid PAYING MMPI to take it off the city's hands.(joke)

It is his duty to get the best deal for the city period.

yee old english

Call me architecturally retarded, but explain to me the renderings.  The cables go from above ground to under the mall...and that supports the mall?  The renderings look great, but I just dont get it.  The site will be under the mall?

Can you post, or post a link to the renderings? Thanks

Well the channel 3 news reported that Officials said the current convention center on Lakeside will be brought down and the new convention center and medical mart will be built on its foundation. What does that really mean and how are they gonna build this?

 

I have the same question? He (the reporter) made it sound as though the Public Hall/Music Hall would be "coming down" too, isn't the convention center portion under ground?

Call me architecturally retarded, but explain to me the renderings.  The cables go from above ground to under the mall...and that supports the mall?  The renderings look great, but I just dont get it.  The site will be under the mall?

Can you post, or post a link to the renderings? Thanks

Well the channel 3 news reported that Officials said the current convention center on Lakeside will be brought down and the new convention center and medical mart will be built on its foundation. What does that really mean and how are they gonna build this?

 

I have the same question? He (the reporter) made it sound as though the Public Hall/Music Hall would be "coming down" too, isn't the convention center portion under ground?

The center is under the grassy Mall. They will pop the top,do what needs to be done and put it back on. The 113 Bldg gone. 101 St.Clair gone. Parking lot on corner gone County Admin. Bldg gone. This is where the 4 story MM will go. Public Hall will remain and be reto fitted. The grassy Mall is currently supported by pillers. They will be removed and the roof will be supported similar to a suspension bridge.