I can't ever remember headline banners in the PD like I saw yesterday. What's up with that?

Does Forest City own the Plain Dealer?

Cuyahoga County commissioners to hold hearing on medical mart

Posted by Jim Nichols/Plain Dealer Reporter February 04, 2009 21:55PM

 

 

I thought Jim wrote a great article, even with the quotes from the convention-business guys.  It lays out a lot of the facts and unanswered questions in a very clear and simple manner.  Something that we rarely see out of the PD.

Cuyahoga County commissioners to hold hearing on medical mart

Posted by Jim Nichols/Plain Dealer Reporter February 04, 2009 21:55PM

 

 

I thought Jim wrote a great article, even with the quotes from the convention-business guys.  It lays out a lot of the facts and unanswered questions in a very clear and simple manner.  Something that we rarely see out of the PD.

 

Except they always seem to leave out the same issues (that should be issues) every time. 

Wheres the question about the cost of not choosing the mall site (for maintaining the current facilities) or what to do with it? 

Where are the opinions of the Urban Planning experts (interesting that they quote the convention people about why the mall site is bad, but not their own Steven Litt about why the mall site is good but tower city is bad)? 

 

Why is there never any mention of why it might be good to build on Cleveland's (past and impressive) assets.... as opposed to disregarding and abandoning them....?       

People leave those issues out, because they aren't as future-oriented as urban planners. Politicians will tend to focus on the cost, event planners will focus on logistics, and downtown stakeholders will do everything they can to maximize their own share of revenue potential.

 

I have always been an advocate for the mall site, because I believe it will satisfy everyone in the end and prove to be a superior site selection. However, until the findings about the cost comparison, the strongest argument for the mall site was from a future-oriented urban planning perspective.

 

Does Forest City own the Plain Dealer?

 

Look at past friendships between the PD's former publisher and the Ratners/Millers. Even though Alex Machaskee's 20+ year reign at the PD has ended, he is still "there." Terry Egger, the new president/publisher of the PD also has some connections with the Ratners. He is on the board of the Greater Cleveland Partnership which is heavily influenced by Forest City Enterprises.

wouldn't it be a HUGE conflict of interest to have the publisher of a news paper on the board of an organization such as the GCP?  How exactly can you be impartial if you are trying to look out for the interests (as any board member should) of a particular organization.  PARTICUARLY, an organization composed of select business groups.  Dear lord.

It's a small town, there aren't enough people they could ask to be on these boards.  That's why the 10-15 capable individuals who live around Cleveland have to wear many hats.

I think you could make a conflict of interest argument for any individual who serves on a board. It isn't really a big deal. Thats how boards work.

 

You would want the publisher of the Plain Dealer on the board of the GCP, becuase it makes the PD leadership more aware of the goals and workings of the GCP.

I would agree if it didn't seem so apparent that they usually act as microphone for the GCP instead of an unbiassed news source.

wouldn't it be a HUGE conflict of interest to have the publisher of a news paper on the board of an organization such as the GCP?  How exactly can you be impartial if you are trying to look out for the interests (as any board member should) of a particular organization.  PARTICUARLY, an organization composed of select business groups.  Dear lord.

 

Thats the problem with the Plain Dealer.  The Old white 50 year old plus network.

There are limits to how much conflict is OK.  Enforce it too much and nobody can do anything, but we can't have outright self-dealing.  That's like the 15-yard personal foul conflict of interest.  FCE's influence on GCP's selection of FCE's property had a scent of self-dealing, even if it didn't quite rise to that level.

 

The line between news and propaganda has wavered for years.  GCP has an agenda.  The PD is supposed to have its own.  Even if the articles come out even-handed over time (which I think they have), an appearance of impropriety is still there.  Would we want the PD publisher on the Sewer District board?  Could we expect honest appraisals of what goes on there, if he were?   

It's a small town, there aren't enough people they could ask to be on these boards.  That's why the 10-15 capable individuals who live around Cleveland have to wear many hats.

 

 

I am SO available for these boards... and capable

It's a small town, there aren't enough people they could ask to be on these boards. That's why the 10-15 capable individuals who live around Cleveland have to wear many hats.

 

I am SO available for these boards... and capable

 

Yeah, "capable" is not necessarily even a criteria.  it's more of an "in the loop" type thing.

the more i think about this, it IS a big conflict of interest.  I mean we are talking about the ONLY major news source in town and it's publisher sitting on a board that is meant to protect the interests of the largest private employers in GREATER Cleveland.  It is nice and all that Steve Litt uses his Architecture and Urban Landscape column to tout the values of the mall site.  But is it any surprise that every "news" story written about this project accentuates what is in the best interest of private businesses and doesn't even mention the potential pitfalls of leaving the existing site?

 

Furthermore is it any surprise the one group that is NEVER called out by this news source is the private business sector?  You know the same sector that has done the single most amount of damage to the city by pulling itself, its employees, and its tax dollars out of the downtown area and off to some glassy box in a suburban greenfield?  I mean really... every single time this happens the PD is quick to point the finger at some public entity.  When Eaton leaves, the city and Wasserman get lambasted for "not doing everything they can to keep this great company".  Apparently never mind the fact that the company was asking the city to remove tax provisions that would have resulted in the cities net LOSS of tax revenue (particuarly when you know damn well every business in town would have demanded that same break), or the fact that the company, in it's race to build a suburban campus was making demands as outrageous as limiting all future development on the most valuable land we will ever have to develop... now and forever... to two stories tall?  But not one person at this paper calls out the private business for these measures (that is a member of this same organization)?  This is actually pretty outrageous.  I don't know how you can be unbiassed when you are cozying up with all the private enterprises and serving on a board that is assembled to serve their greater good.

 

I serve on two boards.  I have to fill out conflict of interest statements every year.  You can't serve on a board meant to promote private enterprise and still be unbiassed against private enterprise.  It's impossible, or should I say counter productive... or ummm... a conflict of interest.

 

ri-dic-u-lous.

It's a small town, there aren't enough people they could ask to be on these boards.  That's why the 10-15 capable individuals who live around Cleveland have to wear many hats.

 

I am SO available for these boards... and capable

 

Yeah, "capable" is not necessarily even a criteria.  it's more of an "in the loop" type thing.

 

Like so many things here in Cleveland.  That loop consists of 

• OLD
  
• White
  
• Men
  
• Over 50
  

 

This is why our region does not appear to have broad appeal.

Let's see. Stokes Nance Pinkney Forbes Jones Jackson Machaskees etc. These folks are not "out of the loop" This has got less to do with race and more to do with the ethically challenged. Money is green. There are some powerful women in this town too  With age comes experience, very few reach a pinnacle of success before 50.

Let's see. Stokes Nance Pinkney Forbes Jones Jackson Machaskees etc. These folks are not "out of the loop" This has got less to do with race and more to do with the ethically challenged. Money is green. There are some powerful women in this town too  With age comes experience, very few reach a pinnacle of success before 50.

 

They are not apart of the "old boy network"  Which is traditionally white, male and over 50.

Yes, old white males like fred nance.

Yes, old white males like fred nance.

 

I guess you skipped over the word traditionally?  ::)

Yes, old white males like fred nance.

 

I guess you skipped over the word traditionally? ::)

 

I think it's true, actually.

 

However, what I hate is that if someone made a Hispanic remark, you'd be all over it.

"Like so many things here in Cleveland.  That loop consists of

 

    * OLD

    * White

    * Men

    * Over 50

This is why our region does not appear to have broad appeal."

 

My point being that if we are going to talk about the old boy network in regard to the Medical Mart, it's worth pointing out that Mr. Nance, Mr. Jackson, and Mr. Lawson-Jones are all African American.  Some would consider them to be fairly important figures in the whole process.

"Like so many things here in Cleveland.  That loop consists of

 

    * OLD

    * White

    * Men

    * Over 50

This is why our region does not appear to have broad appeal."

 

My point being that if we are going to talk about the old boy network in regard to the Medical Mart, it's worth pointing out that Mr. Nance, Mr. Jackson, and Mr. Lawson-Jones are all African American.  Some would consider them to be fairly important figures in the whole process.

 

I completely get and understand that.  However in general business, it's who you know and the majority of the people in Cleveland's old boy network are as I described above.

 

There are rarely if ever any of the following groups at the table 

• Latinos
  
• Women
  
• Asians
  
• Gay/lesbian
  
• Under forty in any combination of the above
  

 

Now can we get back to the med/mart discussion?

It isn't reflected as well as it could be economically, but blacks hold considerable power in Cleveland.  I don't think it's an "old white guy" thing here anymore at all. 

"Like so many things here in Cleveland.  That loop consists of

 

    * OLD

    * White

    * Men

    * Over 50

This is why our region does not appear to have broad appeal."

 

My point being that if we are going to talk about the old boy network in regard to the Medical Mart, it's worth pointing out that Mr. Nance, Mr. Jackson, and Mr. Lawson-Jones are all African American.  Some would consider them to be fairly important figures in the whole process.

 

I completely get and understand that.  However in general business, it's who you know and the majority of the people in Cleveland's old boy network are as I described above.

 

There are rarely if ever any of the following groups at the table 

• Latinos
  
• Women
  
• Asians
  
• Gay/lesbian
  
• Under forty in any combination of the above
  

 

Now can we get back to the med/mart discussion?

 

That would be a good idea. You just keep getting yourself in deeper and deeper.

It does seem odd that the plain dealer didn't have nearly as much of a problem with the GCP choosing the TC site.  I don't remember anything like the scrutiny they have reserved for the Mall location.

MMPI will make their presentation at the Cleveland Public Library next Thurs. at 2:00pm. Flananga(?), without  actually coming out and saying it,  indicates private concerns are holding things up(politics) He is not a happy man. This was on NPR PUBLIC radio interview just now. 

 

CORRECTION 2:00 PM THURSDAY!!  Sorry:(

I sure hope those of you are alleging all this complicity of the PD with FCE (and frankly, that FCE greased palms of anybody who favors the TC site) push the Mall Site planners to include such things as hotels (or at least one 600+ room true convention hotel we currently lack and so desperately need), the interconnected Amtrak/regional train station plus a plaza bridge connecting the lakefront.  But planners are promising none of this while Mall-ers seem content with the current wysiwyg proposal which provides minimal improvement to what's already there.

 

Even staunch mall advocate Steve Litt, who despite PD/TC conflict accusations to the contrary, has been a major, influential editorial voice who the PD could have easily silenced or, at least, pushed way to the side if it wanted to.  Please note that even Litt uses the key would "could" when describing the possibilities of such development which I see is crucial to even begin to make the Mall site successful.  And as anyone who knows this city well, knows that in Cleveland such terms as: "could"  "Phase II" "future development" "down the road" usually mean the same thing: never.

 

I'd also like to know just how these independent convention experts who strongly reject the mall site are, too, somehow on the Ratner/Miller $$ take. 

I sure hope those of you are alleging all this complicity of the PD with FCE (and frankly, that FCE greased palms of anybody who favors the TC site) push the Mall Site planners to include such things as hotels (or at least one 600+ room true convention hotel we currently lack and so desperately need), the interconnected Amtrak/regional train station plus a plaza bridge connecting the lakefront. But planners are promising none of this while Mall-ers seem content with the current wysiwyg proposal which provides minimal improvement to what's already there.

 

Even staunch mall advocate Steve Litt, who despite PD/TC conflict accusations to the contrary, has been a major, influential editorial voice who the PD could have easily silenced or, at least, pushed way to the side if it wanted to. Please note that even Litt uses the key would "could" when describing the possibilities of such development which I see is crucial to even begin to make the Mall site successful. And as anyone who knows this city well, knows that in Cleveland such terms as: "could" "Phase II" "future development" "down the road" usually mean the same thing: never.

 

I'd also like to know just how these independent convention experts who strongly reject the mall site are, too, somehow on the Ratner/Miller $$ take.

 

 

What are YOU referring to?? " greased palms "??? People have written of influence, interconnecting relationships,investigations and such but I can not recall any talk of "greased palms". Be specific and be careful. I am sure the moderators would like to become aware of any such talk.

(and frankly, that FCE greased palms of anybody who favors the TC site)

 

Please, I know a number of people where I work that prefer the TC site for reasons such as connectivity, amenities, etc.  I do not want to discuss the benefits of the locations, I am just saying that to accuse everyone who supports TC of having "greased palms," is ridiculous. 

And as anyone who knows this city well, knows that in Cleveland such terms as: "could" "Phase II" "future development" "down the road" usually mean the same thing: never.

 

Sorta like "Tower City Phase II", or the "future" development of the Scranton Peninsula, originally proposed, what, 15 years ago and then proposed again in 2004 so the city could claim that the TC site was one of the ones being considered?  The criticism of Forest City, unfortunately, is well deserved in this town.  However, I see your point about the hotel space which has yet to be announced for the mall site.  We're gonna need it, and hopefully some type of large hotel development will be announced.

CORRECTION TO PREVIOUS POST

 

  MMPI presentation 2:00pm Thursday Cleve. Public Library

CORRECTION TO PREVIOUS POST

 

MMPI presentation 2:00pm Thursday Cleve. Public Library

 

Will you be there GreenerPastures?

  And as anyone who knows this city well, knows that in Cleveland such terms as: "could"  "Phase II" "future development" "down the road" usually mean the same thing: never.

 

Sorta like "Tower City Phase II", or the "future" development of the Scranton Peninsula, originally proposed, what, 15 years ago and then proposed again in 2004 so the city could claim that the TC site was one of the ones being considered?  The criticism of Forest City, unfortunately, is well deserved in this town.  However, I see your point about the hotel space which has yet to be announced for the mall site.  We're gonna need it, and hopefully some type of large hotel development will be announced.

 

I agree with the above.  I hope we see an announcement of the hotel, however, if I were a hotel chain I would not commit or comment until all is settled with location.

CORRECTION TO PREVIOUS POST

 

  MMPI presentation 2:00pm Thursday Cleve. Public Library

 

Will you be there GreenerPastures?

With bells on. I haven't missed one yet:)

Even staunch mall advocate Steve Litt, who despite PD/TC conflict accusations to the contrary, has been a major, influential editorial voice who the PD could have easily silenced or, at least, pushed way to the side if it wanted to. Please note that even Litt uses the key would "could" when describing the possibilities of such development which I see is crucial to even begin to make the Mall site successful. And as anyone who knows this city well, knows that in Cleveland such terms as: "could" "Phase II" "future development" "down the road" usually mean the same thing: never.

 

Litt also makes it easy for the PD to say they've played it down the middle.  I don't buy it, but I don't think their coverage has been that slanted anyway.  It is interesting that they didn't say much about the GCP conflict.  But they never cover that kind of issue.  They let the Scene do it, so that any such talk comes with porn ads and isn't taken seriously. 

CLEVELAND -- Cleveland Mayor Frank Jackson said Friday that the three Cuyahoga County Commissioners -- and not private developer MMPI -- will pick the site for a new convention center and medical mart if the preferred site on the Mall does not work.

 

Jackson's statement came two days after MMPI senior vice president Mark Falanga said that the project could be built on the East Bank of the Flats if building on the mall site proved too costly. That plan is being backed by developer Scott Wolstein.

 

While county commissioners said last month they preferred the mall site, testing will be done to make sure the existing convention center's original foundation can be reused.

 

"We don't know what Mr. Falanga of MMPI said to Mr. Wolstein about his site," Jackson said in a news release. "But no private developer -- whether it's MMPI, Forest City or Mr. Wolstein -- will determine which site is chosen.

 

"There are public dollars and the decision will be made by elected officials," Jackson said.

 

 

Here comes the monkey wrench.

Here is the link to that.

 

http://www.cleveland.com/news/index.ssf/2009/02/cleveland_mayor_frank_jackson_2.html

 

I'd also like to know just how these independent convention experts who strongly reject the mall site are, too, somehow on the Ratner/Miller $$ take.

Do these "experts" recommending Tower City shop or dine at Tower City?  I'm pretty sure their answer to this question would be the same as most Clevelanders: "No.  Tower City sucks."  But yet they recommend it for others.  Tower City is a beautiful monument, but as shopping mall retail goes, it does kind of suck to people who knew how great it used to be.  It's a better market for Dunkin' Donuts than for Coach.  I cannot see how a TC connection to McDonalds and the Renaissance is really that much better than a Mall connection to Public Auditorium and the Marriott.

Wow, the mall or nothing!  In Crains this morning.

http://www.crainscleveland.com/article/20090209/FREE/302099986/1071/TOC&Profile=1071

 

It's the Mall or not at all for Med Mart, convention center

4:30 am, February 9, 2009

 

COPYRIGHT 2009 CRAIN'S CLEVELAND BUSINESS

 

There's no backup location for the proposed convention center and medical merchandise mart that Cuyahoga County commissioners plan to construct on the Mall in downtown Cleveland. If the project can't be built at the Mall site at a cost that can be covered by the tax dollars dedicated to it, the entire endeavor will be scrapped.

 

That message is what Merchandise Mart Properties Inc., the developer entrusted with creating the project, will tell the people of Northeast Ohio this Thursday, Feb. 12, at two meetings, one with Cleveland City Council and one planned for the public.

 

In a statement for release today, Feb. 9, Merchandise Mart Properties said: “The Mall is the only site within (the) budget dictated by the sales tax collection that still meets the programming needs of the Medical Mart and convention center and which offers connectivity to downtown infrastructure and amenities.” A one-quarter percentage point increase in Cuyahoga County's sales tax is the primary financing source for the project.

 

In a separate statement released last Thursday, Feb. 5, county administrator James McCafferty said reporting that a site in the Flats on the lakefront had been chosen as a backup to the Mall site “is completely erroneous.” The Plain Dealer reported last Thursday that the Flats site is the “fallback” site should engineering problems scuttle plans for the Mall site.

 

David O'Neal, chairman of Conventional Wisdom, a consultancy in Ocoee, Fla., that specializes in convention center planning and was retained by the county commissioner, told Crain's last Friday, Feb. 6, that cost is the overriding issue in the selection process.

 

“There is only one site you can afford,” Mr. O'Neal said, referring to the Mall site. “There was only one site we could make work.”

 

Mr. O'Neal said Merchandise Mart Properties and Conventional Wisdom made 14 side-by-side comparisons of the Mall site and a competing site behind the Tower City Center complex of Forest City Enterprises Inc., looking for ways to trim project costs.

 

“MMPI knew that if they didn't come up with something that was within the budget, the whole project was doomed,” Mr. O'Neal said.

 

By December, they had whittled down the costs as far as they believed they could, Mr. O'Neal said. In the end, the best price on the Mall site was $422 million; at Tower City, it was $530 million, a $108 million difference.

 

An earlier cost comparison sponsored by the Greater Cleveland Partnership business group and released last August estimated it would cost $583 million to build on the Mall compared with $536 million at Tower City. Both were more than the $490 million tax revenue estimate set by GCP for the project.

 

As a result, Merchandise Mart Properties and Conventional Wisdom sharpened their pencils and found ways to cut costs at both sites, Mr. O'Neal said.It had the most success at the Mall location, finding two ways to cut the price tag significantly. The first was an engineering decision that they could re-use the foundation of the current convention center.

 

Mr. O'Neal said his partner, architect Richard Schmidt, has followed the engineering studies and is confident that re-using the existing foundation will work. The foundation holds back a water table under the convention center property. Osborn Engineering Co. of Cleveland has been hired by the commissioners to review the engineering studies and to take more borings to verify the soundness of the existing foundation, Mr. O'Neal said.

 

The second savings was a decision to use 80-year-old Public Auditorium on the Mall for a convention center ballroom. That, Mr. O'Neal said, saved $40 million.

 

The problems with the Tower City site were its topography, the difficulty of creating enough efficient loading dock space for exhibitors to move their equipment in and out and the need to relocate Tower City parking spaces, Mr. O'Neal said.

 

A lakefront complex near the stalled Flats East Bank mixed-use project of The Wolstein Group real estate concern is estimated to cost $367 million. However, that site has big drawbacks, Mr. O'Neal said.

 

“It's the cheapest to build, but it doesn't have the other amenities,” such as a critical mass of hotel space and restaurants within a 10-minute walk, Mr. O'Neal said.

 

Mr. O'Neal said the Flats site also is the riskiest of the three locations

 

“It's the site for the next 25 years — if you had development exploding around it,” Mr. O'Neal said.

 

 

 

 

The problems with the Tower City site were its topography, the difficulty of creating enough efficient loading dock space for exhibitors to move their equipment in and out and the need to relocate Tower City parking spaces, Mr. O'Neal said.

 

Shocking.

Wow, the mall or nothing! In Crains this morning.

http://www.crainscleveland.com/article/20090209/FREE/302099986/1071/TOC&Profile=1071

 

 

Mr. O'Neal said the Flats site also is the riskiest of the three locations

 

“It's the site for the next 25 years — if you had development exploding around it,” Mr. O'Neal said.

 

 

wow, thank goodness feb stalled out at the right time. who would have thought there was any kind of silver lining at all to that unfortunate circumstance?

 

best of all i am glad the commissioners have so firmly put their foot down on the mall site.

 

Watch the egos and pride flare up after this statement.

 

"We will not be held hostage by a company from Chicago that doesn't have the city's well-being in mind and blah blah blah." - Mayor Frank

Wolstein was just on the Feagler show talking about how well-received his proposal was.

Watch the egos and pride flare up after this statement.

 

"We will not be held hostage by a company from Chicago that doesn't have the city's well-being in mind and blah blah blah." - Mayor Frank

 

Kindof a funny statement considering most of the process has involved "being held hostage" by a few with their own agenda, and Im not talking MMP. 

MMPI will not be saddled with a loser location. I heard this rumble before. They are tired of the BS that is being shoveled at them. It is in the City of Cleveland's court. FRANK JACKSON.

Oct 8 forum

Poorly attended due to lack of publicity. 4 guys from Cleveland Building trades kissed some Roman Butt and stated their desire to see the project move forward. 2 Tower City tenants thought the Tower City Site was a swell idea. Poor Joe's cheesy Power Point presentation had equipment failure. Councilman Brain Cummins spoke to the lack of transparency, information and the failure of the City and Council to partake in the process. I spoke privately with the engineer from Osborn who assured me that any water problems were of no consequence and it was well know how to deal with them. Ol'Joe  brushed off the work of the graduate students at Levin as the work of students, while they hired professionals. He could not explain any difference between Forest City's original proposal and GCP's except for the addition of the Medical Mart taking 2 floors of the Higbee  Bldg. When Joe was asked to explain the discrepancy between GCP's cost comparisons and MMPI's statement that costs were comparable between the two sites, he dummied up. 

 

To review

Erm, what happens to the hundreds of million in tax revenue if MMPI pulls out of this thing?

They would try to find someone else to build and run the medical mart part of the project (yes, I'm being serious).

And then it would be stuck on the east bank, presuming no one else will come up with any money of their own.