no, then we'd probably go back to square one and really endanger the project.  I am looking forward to Thursday's meeting.

They will issue a apology and a check to all the County citizens for gross ineptitude and promise never to do it again. GCP and Fred will throw themselves off TC while Frank proclaims " I know nutting,Nutting! Please vote for me."

 

Seriously. Failure is political suicide for both the Commissioners and Mayor. Their credibility is on the line. It is their doom for this project to be further delayed and they know it. They have risked their total political capital. It is do or die. 

Well, that begs my original question.  The county will theoretically have all this cash from their sales tax hike.  If the homework check on the foundation disputes MMPI's findings, and they say, "Well, we don't want to be on the hook for the extra money, we're out," that indeed endangers the entire project and leaves us with a tax being collected for a purpose that no longer exists.

you are not wrong.  The bottom line, is if MMPI walks the project is in serious jeopardy and in my opinion loses a lot of credibility.  The commissioners will then try to find another company capable of running a medical mart show room and convention center (there are others out there who do this type of thing).  I'd imagine they will try to cram whichever site they prefer down the throat of anyone else coming to the table.  They'll hold onto the taxes for that purpose.  If for whatever reason the whole project goes away I have no idea what they'd do with that money.

 

Here's the thing.  The power of this actually only lies with three people.  None of the city politicians really have anything to do with this... they can huff and puff all they want.  And I think everyone knows where Hagan stands.  To be honest I'm not sure where the other two are at.

The foundation is good. Non-issue. The money can be used for anything the county sees fit to use it for, like trying to get re-elected. The Mayor is on the line to negotiate a fair deal with MMPI over the Mall. This is what will make the project a go or no go. You can look for a smooth deal or a dead deal. It will be either or. 

And Fred Nance will sit back and smile, as his financial future will look even more rosy than before.

You can look for a smooth deal or a dead deal. It will be either or.

 

Exactly. If it becomes a dead deal, I will really have no faith in Cleveland politics anymore, nor in their ability to get anything substantial that speaks of real progress done. If this thing dies, the competence of the leadership to achieve anything substantial will really be in question, I think, and it will leave such a bitter taste in people's mouths. Cleveland needs something like this right now, I think. The last thing people want to hear is another hope dashed, another promise broken.

The foundation is good. Non-issue. The money can be used for anything the county sees fit to use it for, like trying to get re-elected. The Mayor is on the line to negotiate a fair deal with MMPI over the Mall. This is what will make the project a go or no go. You can look for a smooth deal or a dead deal. It will be either or. 

 

Perhaps the only reason Jackson is making so much fuss is to pump up the city's otherwise puny bargaining position.  He knows they want this land, but they've told him they don't need it.  That's why I found the Crains article odd.  The Wolstein plan's inclusion meant MMPI didn't have to pay whatever Jackson asked.  This new line of thought seems to put all the power back in Jackson's hands.  Not clear to me why MMPI or the county would do that.

Agreed.  The only way the "city" can get in the way is if they hold things up with absurd demands for the city owned buildings.  Whatever political pressures they would face from the private sector, I can't imagine they would be willing to jeopardize this deal.  If it dies... political carreer over.

 

Here's the thing. The power of this actually only lies with three people. None of the city politicians really have anything to do with this... they can huff and puff all they want. And I think everyone knows where Hagan stands. To be honest I'm not sure where the other two are at.

 

On the contrary, it is all on Jackson at this point. How he negotiates on the City of Cleveland owned property is everything at this point. He is in the cat bird seat.

 

Here's the thing. The power of this actually only lies with three people. None of the city politicians really have anything to do with this... they can huff and puff all they want. And I think everyone knows where Hagan stands. To be honest I'm not sure where the other two are at.

 

On the contrary, it is all on Jackson at this point. How he negotiates on the City of Cleveland owned property is everything at this point. He is in the cat bird seat.

 

I disagree. Jackson is making noise because he wants to appear relevant on a major issue in an election year.

I believe I clarified in my second post. 

It just keeps getting stranger...

 

http://blog.cleveland.com/metro/2009/02/port_authority_doesnt_want_med.html

 

Port Authority doesn't want med mart on its land in the Flats

Posted by Jim Nichols/Plain Dealer Reporter

February 09, 2009 16:58PM

 

CLEVELAND — Greater Cleveland's port authority tried Monday to sink a plan that developer Scott Wolstein recently floated to build a new convention center and medical mart on the port's lakefront property in the Flats.

 

"The Port Authority has not been approached by any party to consider the Port site as a location for the prospective development," the Cleveland-Cuyahoga County Port Authority board said in a statement. "The Port site is not available for the proposed Medical Mart and Convention Center as may have been proposed by others."...

I think Mr. Johnson just got his first taste of Cleveland politics :) I bet he's more careful next time.

Wolstein had an option arranged for the Eaton project, and it sounds like he believes that option is still his.  Either it is or it isn't.

Wolstein had an option arranged for the Eaton project, and it sounds like he believes that option is still his. Either it is or it isn't.

 

This isn't his first ride on the merry-go-round. He knew he had no deal on the amount of acres required for the MM /Con project and had not flown it by the Port Authority Board.

Wolstein had an option arranged for the Eaton project, and it sounds like he believes that option is still his. Either it is or it isn't.

 

There's no comparison between the size of what they wanted to do for eaton, which encompompased enlarging the waterfront loop but containing the development inside it... to a potential convention center which stretches from the tracks all the way to the lake.  That would take up a huge chunk of the land the port wants to redevlop.  Not only that it would have added a second hulking lifeless structure on our lakefront, creating "bookends" if you will that would make for a pretty akward Lakefront neighborhood development.  I'm sure there are things about Adam Wasserman that if I knew I wouldn't like.  But the fact that this guy wants to bring in planning experts from around the globe to plan this maritime neighborhood over the next 10 years... and the fact that he has now told two major entities to stick it for trying to force the way the port should go about that... I REALLY like.  For too long Cleveland has developed for the sake of developing, they need to get that one right.  We'll only get one chance to develop that port land.

Agreed.  I had thought the pictures showed significant buildable land around this thing, particularly in front of it.  But the flats/port site is far from ideal for this while the mall site pretty much is.  I hope this becomes a construction progress picture thread very soon.

Has a date been released for the inspection existing foundation? Sorry if this has been posted but after going back several pages and reading about race and power, I've given up.

Well I'd say the Plain Dealer has outdone themselves in their negativity toward Cleveland in the following editorial.

 

http://www.cleveland.com/news/plaindealer/othercolumns/index.ssf?/base/opinion/1234258228249000.xml&coll=2

Build Cleveland's med mart where the medicine is

Tuesday, February 10, 2009

Jim Strang

They should quit putting things in downtown Manhattan too.  What an obsolete location, everything has moved up the street from it.  It's only still there because of those stupid docks.

What an idiot!

^^^BOO THAT MAN!!!

Strang, a longtime member of The Plain Dealer editorial board, retired in 2006.

 

That was probably a good idea.  :roll:

some people, will simply never get it.  I'd love to know how old Jim Strang is.

Probably as old and irrelevant as he perceives downtown to be.  :roll:

The PeeDee's credibility is 0. For them to say anything  at this point is disingenuous beyond words. This is the most asinine "editorial "piece I've ever read. Fortunately, their circulation is such that they are the bordering on irrelevance anyway. PeeDee indeed. They stopped being a plain dealer long ago. Mr. Stang should return to retirement and something productive, like look at stamps and dream of days gone by when he was somewhat relevant.

the whole notion is absurd.  I honestly wouldn't have a problem if someone wanted to build a medical mart / trade show facility in university circle... if it was completely privately financed.  Go for it.  Putting a convention center in UC makes about as much sense as Jim Strang's idea of abandoning downtown cleveland making this region a better place.  Idiot.  And the PD is worse for actually allowing him to put this crap in their paper.

The tens of thousands of office workers who once rode buses and streetcars to the jobs and centralized shopping that industry and commerce created downtown now drive their cars to jobs and malls relocated to dozens of suburbs, where they need no longer live like sardines packed on 30-by-40-foot city lots.

This line especially angered me. I guess this moron hasn't taken the time to look at how many of us are taking the bus to downtown everyday. Hasn't RTA's ridership increased the last 6 years in spite of service cuts and fair increases? Its been quite a while since RTA had any empty seats on their busses. I heard recently that Laketran's ridership is up 14% this year over last (don't quote me on that percentage) inspite of fair increases. I've heard from a handful of coworkers that live in Akron that the Summit County Metro busses running up to downtown Cleveland are packing people in like sardines everyday. Last I heard we had a hundred thousand people still working in downtown, what is wrong with this guy?

He thinks he's a member of ZZ Top? (photo from flickr.com)

^ How does he eat ribs?  I could never deal with that.

He thinks he's a member of ZZ Top? (photo from flickr.com)

 

 

Hahahahahahhah.

 

Dear Jim,

  Please go away.

 

Sincerely,

Modern Society

I actually kind of agree with some of his statements.

 

I wish people wouldn't be so quick to write things off when they don't agree with them. I think he brings up some interesting points and, agree with them or not, at least have an open mind.

 

I, for a long time, have felt that University Circle is really where anything interesting going on in Cleveland is happening. I, too, agree that the future of Cleveland is really based here .. where new technologies are being pushed and more progressive fields are being cultivated. Just because downtown is there doesn't necessarily mean it's relevant anymore.

As usual, the PD is absolutely clueless. The PD is nothing but a useless rag. The guy who wrote this article is an absolute moron. I bet you he has not been downtown in over twenty years. Also, I'm done with this whole ordeal. How come we can't get things done in this town? We have an outside company that wants to build a medical mart in our town and we are doing everything we can to screw it up. Building a new convention center should not be this hard. However, our bumbling politicians and FCE are doing everything they can to screw it up. Doesn't FCE have other projects around the country to worry about? If FCE is so worried about Tower City, they should come up with new development ideas for downtown rather than throwing their weight around on this project. Oh, I forgot FCE does not invest in markets like Cleveland.

jpop, how many conventions have you attended recently? How many have you helped coordinate? I'm asking sincerely.

If you really think that walking away from downtown will do anything except absolutely spell the end of this region, I think you need to have your head examined. 

^^^well, your post was about 10 times more persuasive and 100 times less insulting to Cleveland than Mr. Strang's rantings.

Nightlife/streetlife and massive hospital complexes do not mix.  We want this to be an all-purpose CC, not just a medical mart (whatever that actually is... a concern that hasn't come up for a while).  University Circle is very very short on amenities.  Downtown may not be where the bio-research is going on, but it's still the playground. 

Keep in mind that Strang's article didn't single out the Med Mart for University Circle - he suggested plunking the *whole* project out in University Circle.

I would have thought I was reading a Feagler column.

^Exactly. 

 

By the way, there is no model, none, in which greater cleveland survives with an abandoned downtown.

Wow, what a window into how the Plain Dealer really feels about the city.

 

They should fire everyone on that Editorial board, bring people in from out of town, who will genuinely have their socks knocked off by what a great place Cleveland and NEO actually is. 

 

Back on topic....I think convention centers are cool

This is the typical mentality of people that have absolutely no idea about creating successful urban neighborhoods/developments.  It's hilarious that the pd even gives someone like this the time of day, but I guess that reflects the caliber of the filter for this worthless paper.

And since when do former editors of news papers have any credibility to design cities?  I guess since I'm an architect I can run a newspaper...  Couldn't do worse though I suppose...

Downtown may not be where the bio-research is going on, but it's still the playground.

 

I do, incidentally, agree. But the thing is, Cleveland needs to pour more resources into areas that are interested in being progressive. I think UC is more of a beacon for that than downtown is at the moment. I don't really see downtown Cleveland as an incubator for new ideas as much as UC. I think Cleveland is more fortunate to have UC than many people realize because I think the neighborhood speaks to the future moreso than any other neighborhood in Cleveland.

 

Does that mean the MM should move to UC? I don't know. I just think it's an interesting question, and I'm certainly open to it if it would benefit the city more than keeping it downtown.

 

I'm not saying I agree with everything he had to say, and his tone has obviously made people defensive. But I just think the ideas are interesting, personally. Obviously, many here don't agree.

No, the idea is ludicrous.  You don't put A CONVENTION CENTER in university circle.

 

That is not to say UC isn't a great assest, extremely important to the future of the region, etc.  But there is one place a convention center goes here.  His whole diatribe was essentially that downtown is worthless, and we shouldn't be concentrating in fixing it up.  No downtown. No Cleveland.

It's just funny that the very people that have run this city into the ground for the last 5 decades are the ones asking to be heard.  How does this guy have any more credibility than any a-hole off the street?

^Thank you.

Does that mean the MM should move to UC? I don't know. I just think it's an interesting question, and I'm certainly open to it if it would benefit the city more than keeping it downtown.

 

Do you think MMPI means it when they say it's the Mall or their gone? I believe them. I don't blame them.The decision has been made by them. They would be running it. Keep fooling around with them. Delay another 6,12,or 18 months and this is dead. Not in the Flats,TC,The Mall,UC or any place. DEAD. 

^It would be like the ones who have been running the country for the past 8 years (you know, the ones who are greatly responsible for the financial mess we are in) trying to tell the new President how to do things.  Wait a second...

This is old news and irrelevant! I remember this discussion some time ago, the city (county?) told the MM folks downtown or bust. Move forward...