why wasn't this done A LONG TIME AGO? Why are they waiting until now when the decision has supposedly been made?

 

Take your pick:

 

A)  Because they're not trying to help, they're trying to force the project to FCE.

 

B)  They're dumb.

 

I think the PeeDee is giving FCE their last waltz. This has no merit but could be a pain in the keister. The County throws them a undeserved bone so they save face.The PeeDee is in survival mode and they risking further alienating a shrinking customer base to continue this nonsense.

I think the PeeDee is giving FCE their last waltz. This has no merit but could be a pain in the keister. The County throws them a undeserved bone so they save face.The PeeDee is in survival mode and they risking further alienating a shrinking customer base to continue this nonsense.

http://uk.video.yahoo.com/watch/193683/526405

If I didn't know better, this was a "read"!  A line has been drawn in the sand.

 

---

 

Cuyahoga County Commissioner Tim Hagan rips Plain Dealer coverage of medical mart project

 

 

Posted by Joe Guillen/Plain Dealer Reporter March 26, 2009 13:49PM

 

Categories: Breaking News, Medical Mart, Real Time News

 

Cuyahoga County Commissioner Tim Hagan criticizes Plain Dealer

 

CLEVELAND — Cuyahoga County Commissioner Tim Hagan today accused The Plain Dealer of attacking him in its coverage of the medical mart project.

 

As evidence of the attacks, Hagan cited questions raised in the paper about his relationship with the Kennedy family and a comment made on a radio show by an editorial writer.

 

At today's commissioners' board meeting, Hagan defended his close ties to Chris Kennedy, as detailed in a recent Plain Dealer story. Chris Kennedy is president of Merchandise Mart Properties, Inc., a Chicago company partnering with the county on the medical mart project. Hagan is godfather to the daughter of Kennedy's sister, Kathleen Kennedy Townsend...

 

http://blog.cleveland.com/metro/2009/03/cuyahoga_county_commissioner_t_1.html

 

Note:  I didn't post this in the MM/CC thread, because I believe this is bigger than that thread and we'll see/hear more later.

It's unprofessional to call anyone a pimp like that, but the metaphor has merit.  And the family connections are fair game to question.  Hagan has every right to call them out on it and defend himself.  But there needs to be more open questioning and criticism going on.  I'm surprised the PD hasn't really gone after one or more of these guys.  They went after McFaul and that seems to have been effective.   

^You have got to be kidding.  The PD has not gone after these guys?  Where have you been the past year.  And the manner in which they have done it is so sophomoric that it blinds the public to legitimate concerns and issues we should have with the Board.  They are clearly biased when it comes to the Board and lack any credibility, as far as I am concerned, when they go on the attack given the manner in which they do it.

 

 

True.  And you're right about them sucking at it.  As illustrated yesterday, they don't do their homework well.  When it comes to outing corruption, the Scene/FreeTimes have done a better job recently.  The key is getting at the records and really tearing into them.

 

It seemed to me like the PD only jumped on them after the weeklies and the feds did.  They should have been years out in front.  This is a core function of the local press and they don't even seem that interested, to me.   

Cuyahoga County Commissioner Tim Hagan rips Plain Dealer coverage of medical mart project

Posted by Joe Guillen

I hate when Tim's right. The PeeDee should run a large ad apologizing to both Hagen and the community. Mr. Evans should be suspended.

I gotta say, that I like what Hagen said about the PD.  Thanks Tim!

Sorry-i know this partially off-topic, but a PD article today stated the innerbelt bridge got stimulus funding. Does anyone know where we can find a full list of all projects to be funded?

Check out the Transportation section of this forum.

 

Specific discussions regarding the stimulus funding for ODOT sponsored project are at:

http://www.urbanohio.com/forum2/index.php/topic,4500.msg381085.html#msg381085

Cuyahoga County sued by Citizens for Sunshine director for access to medical mart records

Posted by Joe Guillen/Plain Dealer Reporter

March 27, 2009 22:09PM

 

 

A Strongsville man sued Cuyahoga County on Friday under the Ohio Open Records Law for access to records related to the medical mart project.

 

The Plain Dealer threatened a similar lawsuit last week and reached an agreement with the county to obtain drafts of its development agreement with Merchandise Mart Properties Inc., the county's private partner in the $425 million medical mart project...

 

"Although I think the county is dead wrong, if Mr. Bardwell doesn't present [his case] right, the county could create a distinctively bad precedent."http://blog.cleveland.com/metro/2009/03/cuyahoga_county_sued_by_citize.html

 

---

 

Smells like a Atlantic Yards Gambit

This thread isn't about any other projects that FCE is dealing with - keep it to the Convention Center/Medical Mart.

Chris Kennedy of Merchandise Mart Properties says Cleveland lacks strong leaders

 

Posted by Joe Guillen/Plain Dealer Reporter March 28, 2009 20:44PM

Categories: Cuyahoga County government, Medical Mart, Real Time News

Chuck Crow/The Plain DealerChris Kennedy, right, CEO of MMPI, addresses questions in the Cuyahoga County Commissioners Chambers after announcing that the Mall site will be the site where the Medical Mart will be built.

 

Kennedy said he is struck by how negative the people and the media are in Cleveland. He also stated that MMPI is committed to the medical mart project.

 

More at http://blog.cleveland.com/metro/2009/03/chris_kennedy_of_merchandise_m.html

 

 

^There is so much hyperbole in that article I don't know where to begin.

"Downtown core barren" - I guess that's the negativity Kennedy was talking about. Honestly, Kennedy is right. This whole process has opened my eyes to how petty the business community in this town can be. He raises some decent points. Why does Cleveland suffer from this self-defeating attitude? This idea "it can't happen here" is getting really old. Why is one of the largest corporations in town trying to bury the project because they didn't get it? I can't figure this out. Ok, the med mart/convention center will not be attached to your property. I understand you may be a little frustrated, but this idea that you need to kill the project because you didn't get it is nonsense. Are they that spoiled? Do they run around the country doing this? Probably not, so why are they doing it here? These are all questions that need to be answered.

^^^It's a bitter pill for some to swallow, but I am glad someone finally is shaking these people up and saying what needs to be said.  It's a little overboard on generalizations, but overall it's the truth about the big picture of what goes on in this town.

And where is the Mayor and the CCCs to respond?

 

THEY WONT.  We have no PR Strategy to counter (ie we're not dead or @ssbackwards) or go after the PD for it's "editorial" slant, so Kennedy is partially correct.

 

Kennedy said what he said, to send a signal to FCE.  He purposely insults the PD (Joe Guillen is an example of how the PD incorrectly portrays Cleveland and sways public opinion and exactly what Kennedy is referring to) along with the very company causing problems - FCE.

 

Hopefully the GCP will implode and some new, diverse and progressive blood will be able to move the region in another direction.

 

This should have been said long ago!

 

Back to the CC/MM

 

 

 

"Who's got the juice in that town?" Kennedy wondered, granting exceptions for Hagan and Cleveland Clinic President and Chief Executive Toby Cosgrove. "We would not invest there if it weren't for Tim Hagan.

"Who else could get us to come there?" he said. "Nobody's doing business in Cleveland."

 

Man, I was pretty good with just hating FC and the PD in this whole scenario, but Kennedy made himself sound like a real d!ck.  Yeah, it must be tough to do business in a town where they agree to build you a $450 million facility that you will receive all of the profits from.  I really want this thing to get built on the mall and soon but I feel like we got nobody to cheer for.

"Who's got the juice in that town?" Kennedy wondered, granting exceptions for Hagan and Cleveland Clinic President and Chief Executive Toby Cosgrove. "We would not invest there if it weren't for Tim Hagan.

"Who else could get us to come there?" he said. "Nobody's doing business in Cleveland."

 

Man, I was pretty good with just hating FC and the PD in this whole scenario, but Kennedy made himself sound like a real d!ck.  Yeah, it must be tough to do business in a town where they agree to build you a $450 million facility that you will receive all of the profits from.  I really want this thing to get built on the mall and soon but I feel like we got nobody to cheer for.

 

dude, you're really simplifying it aren't you?  It's MMPIs power that will bring clients and they are assuming all overages.

 

Oh, so the county will receive some of the profits generated from the medical mart and MMPI will definitely pay for some of the construction.  I guess I haven't been following this closely enough, thanks for the correction.

I know the idea is to stay focused here with the MM but this project  is a typical example of the systemic problems of the revitalization and development of our community. We all know the the players. As a community we need to stand and demand more from the business  and political "leaders". This is a important forum to effect that change. You can watch the PeeDee, business and politicians react directly to the thoughtful discussions and comments on this forum. I would encourage all to support UrbanOhio as you are able. This is a important voice of the community. 

The whole Medical Mart process has been like a showcase for dysfunction at every level of politics, journalism, and business.  I'd like to think that when the torch is finally passed from this current generation of vain "leaders" to a new generation, projects like this won't turn so inevitably farcical.  So, I think I agree with you GP.

Now that I think about it a little more, I am on the fence about my earlier post.  The Cleveland biz community still definitely needed to hear this but....

 

I guess I should also add, being in the design industry, MM is certainly not some bastion of creative thinking either, I deal with that place quite a bit.  Personally, I bought a glass wall system from a showroom there for my own condo, and hired a local moving company to pick it up for me.  Turns out, this normal reputable company was non-union, and the MM union workers made it as diffiicult as possible for my movers to get this stuff out of there.  Made them wait to park the truck at the bay...even though 80% of the slots were open, and the union elevator operator made us wait an hour to bring it down.  Then they gave us shit about the paperwork, which was all in order for removing something, when the truck tried to leave the garage.  I actually thought I was going to have to bribe the girl to let them leave.   

 

Merchandise Mart is a top heavy, union stronghold of old business practices.  After I thought about it more, this guy is used to Chicago, and the shady deals that get done daily(or should I say Daley) with no public input.  Anyone remember Miegs Feild and Daley ripping it up in the middle of the night?

 

I think he is used to things that just "get done" in his own town, and the Cleveland biz community is also...but not from an outsider.  There is definitely old school practices going on with both sides of this deal.  Cleveland definitely needs to lighten up a bit, but an outside company in Chicago would probably go through way more hoops than this.  Saying that nobody wants to do business in Cleveland was kind of a cheap shot given that Chicago is probably way worse for outsiders.

Now that I think about it a little more, I am on the fence about my earlier post.  The Cleveland biz community still definitely needed to hear this but....

 

I guess I should also add, being in the design industry, MM is certainly not some bastion of creative thinking either, I deal with that place quite a bit.  Personally, I bought a glass wall system from a showroom there for my own condo, and hired a local moving company to pick it up for me.  Turns out, this normal reputable company was non-union, and the MM union workers made it as diffiicult as possible for my movers to get this stuff out of there.  Made them wait to park the truck at the bay...even though 80% of the slots were open, and the union elevator operator made us wait an hour to bring it down.  Then they gave us sh!t about the paperwork, which was all in order for removing something, when the truck tried to leave the garage.  I actually thought I was going to have to bribe the girl to let them leave.   

 

Merchandise Mart is a top heavy, union stronghold of old business practices.  After I thought about it more, this guy is used to Chicago, and the shady deals that get done daily(or should I say Daley) with no public input.  Anyone remember Miegs Feild and Daley ripping it up in the middle of the night?

 

I think he is used to things that just "get done" in his own town, and the Cleveland biz community is also...but not from an outsider.  There is definitely old school practices going on with both sides of this deal.  Cleveland definitely needs to lighten up a bit, but an outside company in Chicago would probably go through way more hoops than this.  Saying that nobody wants to do business in Cleveland was kind of a cheap shot given that Chicago is probably way worse for outsiders.

 

You're in the design industry, do purchasing for your personal condo at the commercial only Merchandise Mart and supervise the truck loading by the incompetent union workers that you contemplate having to bribe to do their job in the corrupt Democratic stronghold of Richard Daley because you are a "outsider" and that voids Kennedy's observations as he is a Democratic from Chicago with union workers. Still, Chicago thrives.  Is that really your story?? You sold me

Good for Kennedy telling it like it is.

 

This battle about the MM is like that cartoon where two starving guys in a snow-bound cabin are fighting over a pea. While they fight, the mouse snuck in between them and devoured it.

You're in the design industry, do purchasing for your personal condo at the commercial only Merchandise Mart and supervise the truck loading by the incompetent union workers that you contemplate having to bribe to do their job in the corrupt Democratic stronghold of Richard Daley because you are a "outsider" and that voids Kennedy's observations as he is a Democratic from Chicago with union workers. Still, Chicago thrives.  Is that really your story?? You sold me

 

I am not sure what you are getting at....but yes, I mean that business/politics/media and shady practices are no different here in Chicago, and probably worse.  I've lived in Chicago for 12 years and have many stories about what goes on from friends in all types of situations.  It is not easy to get things done or deal with city hall at all.

 

I do business at the mart, yes...I previously worked for a large architectural firm.  It is a very old school organization, and when you go into a showroom they only treat you well if you can whip out a business card from a big firm.  As for my personal story, that was me dealing with it first hand.  I bought a glass wall conference room system from a well known contract office showroom that was tearing it down as a display to remodel for neocon.  The transaction was completely legitimate...however my non-union movers were hassled like crazy by the union MM staff for the simple reason that they were non-union.

 

I am not negating what he said, the Cleveland community definitely need to hear it.  The more I thought about it though it is like the pot calling the kettle black. 

You're in the design industry, do purchasing for your personal condo at the commercial only Merchandise Mart and supervise the truck loading by the incompetent union workers that you contemplate having to bribe to do their job in the corrupt Democratic stronghold of Richard Daley because you are a "outsider" and that voids Kennedy's observations as he is a Democratic from Chicago with union workers. Still, Chicago thrives.  Is that really your story?? You sold me

 

I am not sure what you are getting at....but yes, I mean that business/politics/media and shady practices are no different here in Chicago, and probably worse.  I've lived in Chicago for 12 years and have many stories about what goes on from friends in all types of situations.  It is not easy to get things done or deal with city hall at all.

 

I do business at the mart, yes...I previously worked for a large architectural firm.  It is a very old school organization, and when you go into a showroom they only treat you well if you can whip out a business card from a big firm.  As for my personal story, that was me dealing with it first hand.  I bought a glass wall conference room system from a well known contract office showroom that was tearing it down as a display to remodel for neocon.  The transaction was completely legitimate...however my non-union movers were hassled like crazy by the union MM staff for the simple reason that they were non-union.

 

I am not negating what he said, the Cleveland community definitely need to hear it.  The more I thought about it though it is like the pot calling the kettle black. 

 

Metrocity, I've purchased things at the Chicago mart as well as others.

 

I fail to understand what your personal experience with the union workers on a delivery out of one of hundreds of showrooms, has to do with the operations as a whole at the Chicago Merchandise Mart.

 

 

 

A bit off track here but I use to work in Chi and found the Aldermen more than helpful. After 12 years I would think someone would have shown you the ropes. LMAO

I fail to understand what your personal experience with the union workers on a delivery out of one of hundreds of showrooms, has to do with the operations as a whole at the Chicago Merchandise Mart.

 

Sorry if I was not clear.  I have dealt with the operations there many times on a professional level, and IMHO I feel that the things he complains about...while true, are no different than business as usual in his organization or the city of Chicago.  It needed to be said, but the cheap shots at Cleveland and nobody wanting to do business there were unwarranted.  Just my opinion

Unfortunately, I think Kennedy was right.  While Chicago may be as corrupt as Cleveland, things get down.  Hell, just compare the two cities. 

 

Also, I have heard that there are developers who refuse to work in Cleveland bc of the level of difficulty.  Steelyard, for example, took about a decade to work out. 

Now, I am confused.

 

"I feel that the things he complains about...while true,"

"It needed to be said, but the cheap shots at Cleveland and nobody wanting to do business there were unwarranted."

 

WHILE TRUE, IT NEEDED TO BE SAID, BUT IS UNWARRANTED ??? I saw no cheap shots. It is a fact that a lot of people do not want to do business here because of the political/business climate. It is a fact that needs to change.

Under way right now......

 

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE:

March 31, 2009

News Advisory

Mayor Jackson, Mayor Zanotti, Councilman Cimperman and Key Leaders to Give a Current Statement on

Medical Mart/Convention Center

 

CLEVELAND – Mayor Frank G. Jackson will be joined this morning by Mayor of Parma Heights Martin Zanotti, Ward 13 Councilman Joseph Cimperman and other key leaders in making a current statement on the Medical Mart/Convention Center.

WHO: Mayor Frank G. Jackson, City of Cleveland

Mayor Martin Zanotti, City of Parma Heights

Councilman Joseph Cimperman, Ward 13

Kurt Treu, President, U.S. Bank and Chair of Positively Cleveland Board

Dennis Roche, President, Positively Cleveland

Joe Roman, President & CEO, Greater Cleveland Partnership

WHAT: Statement on Medical Mart/Convention Center

WHEN: Tuesday, March 31, 2009

10:15 AM

WHERE: Mall Side of the Convention Center

500 Lakeside Avenue

 

- 30 -

OK, so what is going on?

Just got back. It was Joe Roman's Dog and Pony Show staring Frank Jackson & Martin Zanotti. Rather than ask their questions in a private business like manner, they have taken the tack of brash public skepticism, while trying to appear reasonable, to further the FCE/GCP agenda. Afterwards, Frank invited the press into Public Auditorium to show them how throw a Rock'n Roll Party with a million dollars of taxpayer money. 

Just got back. It was Joe Roman's Dog and Pony Show staring Frank Jackson & Martin Zanotti. Rather than ask their questions in a private business like manner, they have taken the tack of brash public skepticism, while trying to appear reasonable, to further the FCE/GCP agenda.

 

What was the point of the press conference?

 

Let's just have the City sell the current convention center and Public Hall to FCE and then let FCE sell it to MMPI. Wouldn't that just be easier?  ;)

The gist of it was the Mayor's would like cost figures analized by "independent" experts.( no. I did not misspell }

Yes, because Turner Construction Co. isn't independent.  They only do work with MMPI.  This could be a bigger waste of time than the GCP site location study.

The gist of it was the Mayor's would like cost figures analized by "independent" experts.( no. I did not misspell }

 

And this is a bad thing?  Without "editorial" or "negative" comments, can you tell us what was said?

MTS, I have to say, this is fairly ridiculous.  When MMPI made their presentation to the public their construction estimates for both sites were conducted by a couple of the largest and most widely used construction companies on the planet.  I'm not exactly sure what they are implying by stating they need an independent analysis, other than almost accusing MMPI of being shady.  Meanwhile... the FCE "estimates" must have come out of thin air because as far as I know they did their own cost estimates for their site.  This is ridiculous.

here is the PD version:

 

http://blog.cleveland.com/metro/2009/03/cleveland_mayor_calls_for_clos.html

 

Cleveland mayor calls for close monitoring of medical mart project

 

Posted by Joe Guillen/Plain Dealer Reporter March 31, 2009 11:49AM

 

CLEVELAND — Mayor Frank Jackson stated his support for a downtown mall site as the future home of the medical mart project this morning, but he stressed that Cuyahoga County's contract with a private developer to build the complex must be closely monitored.

 

 

I did not take notes and arrived for last 10 min as I only found out thanks to KJP. ^^^( I live close)

MTS, I have to say, this is fairly ridiculous.  When MMPI made their presentation to the public their construction estimates for both sites were conducted by a couple of the largest and most widely used construction companies on the planet. I'm not exactly sure what they are implying by stating they need an independent analysis, other than almost accusing MMPI of being shady.  Meanwhile... the FCE "estimates" must have come out of thin air because as far as I know they did their own cost estimates for their site.  This is ridiculous.

 

Gotcha, I was unaware of that.  Now I understand.  Thanks for clearing that up. 

here is the PD version:

 

http://blog.cleveland.com/metro/2009/03/cleveland_mayor_calls_for_clos.html

 

That actually sounds pretty straight forward and reasonable.

I love how Cle.com insists on using a cold, gray, snowy, and empty picture of the Mall/CC!  :roll:

Cleveland mayor calls for close monitoring of medical mart project

Posted by Joe Guillen/Plain Dealer Reporter March 31, 2009 11:49AM

 

CLEVELAND — Mayor Frank Jackson[glow=red,2,300] stated his support for a downtown mall site [/glow] as the future home of the medical mart project this morning, but he stressed that Cuyahoga County's contract with a private developer to build the complex must be closely monitored.

 

More at

http://blog.cleveland.com/metro/2009/03/cleveland_mayor_calls_for_clos.html

 

---

 

Notes/Unanswered questions:

What was the stuff GP was talking about?  This doesn't sound, to me, like he is calling for an independeant appraisal.

[*]Mr. Guillen hasn't edited his previous article or addressed any emails

[*]show us Mr. Kennedy's letter

 

 

It is amazing that the Med Mart was mentioned on Cle.com and there was not instant bashing of it.  However, once is a mistake twice is a trend.

MTC

 

Notice the reporter said 6 concerns, but did not list them. I expect them to piecemeal them out to keep the public jumping. Frank seems to be trying to throw a little water on the fire.(very little, but I'll take it) Frank does not want any Election Day problems. This should move slowly forward till then. I can assure as I was there and heard it. Afterwards, I asked someone from the County if they they had received a letter prior to this, from the  Co. Mayor's group expressing concern about the numbers and he indicated not. I told him if there were concerns about it I did not understand why it wasn't brought up weeks ago privately instead of at a news conference as the public was already inflamed.. He assured the reporter there, that I did not work for the county and I was just a concerned citizen expressing my view.

 

 

My guess is the Mayor and the other mayors were at the Convention Center to promote the Rock Hall show and knew the media would ask about CC/MM.  He may have just tried to get ahead of the reporters.