April 9, 200916 yr Medical mart contract details how Cuyahoga County taxpayers' millions will be spent Posted by Joe Guillen and Jim Nichols
April 9, 200916 yr Before construction begins, MMPI is required to sign up 10 makers of medical equipment to lease space in the medical mart for at least three years. MMPI also must arrange for five medically themed trade shows within the first year of operation. Regarding MMPI's obligation to sign people up before groundbreaking, I thought they already had that in the bag. They aren't new to the field and have been working these contacts for a while. I don't expect it to be a big problem... and I saw nothing else in the article to justify breaking ground in fall 2010 as opposed to fall 2009. Why are we waiting? What more could we possibly need to fix after years of planning? Let's go!
April 9, 200916 yr ^I'm disapointed it'll take that long too, but considering all they'll have to get done for this project before construction can start, Spring of 2010 was what I was guessing. Consider that officially the site hasn't been selected, though I'm assuming that'll be done shortly. The property still has to be sold, which will take a few months. MMPI has to select an architect, which I assume they've already done, but if not could potentially take a few months. MMPI has to come up with some possible designs, which will take a few more months. The county has to select which design they'll go with. The city will have to review the design to ensure it meets code and then issue permits, Applications will have to be done for historic preservation credits, Contractors and subcontractors will have to be selected And a whole host of minor details
April 9, 200916 yr If the county still has to select a design to go with, is it still at all possible to have a part of the structure bridge over the rail and shoreway? The possibility of pedestrian access to North Coast Harbor made rebuilding at the mall site that much more compelling. A new cc along with better access to the waterfront made it a win-win project. Or at the very least, could the cc be built in a way to make this bridge concept a future possibility? At the very least I think we're entitled to know how much this would add to the cost. Somebody should be pushing for this. ^I'm disapointed it'll take that long too, but considering all they'll have to get done for this project before construction can start, Spring of 2010 was what I was guessing. Consider that officially the site hasn't been selected, though I'm assuming that'll be done shortly. The property still has to be sold, which will take a few months. MMPI has to select an architect, which I assume they've already done, but if not could potentially take a few months. MMPI has to come up with some possible designs, which will take a few more months. The county has to select which design they'll go with. The city will have to review the design to ensure it meets code and then issue permits, Applications will have to be done for historic preservation credits, Contractors and subcontractors will have to be selected And a whole host of minor details
April 9, 200916 yr Ugh....here we go again: Cleveland Play House property raised as option for convention center site By STAN BULLARD 2:41 pm, April 9, 2009 Add the site of the Cleveland Play House at 8500 Euclid Ave. to the mix as an alternative for the planned convention center and medical merchandise mart if Cuyahoga County and the city of Cleveland cannot strike a deal soon. [sNIP!] http://www.crainscleveland.com/article/20090409/FREE/904099968
April 9, 200916 yr Ugh....here we go again: Cleveland Play House property raised as option for convention center site By STAN BULLARD 2:41 pm, April 9, 2009 Add the site of the Cleveland Play House at 8500 Euclid Ave. to the mix as an alternative for the planned convention center and medical merchandise mart if Cuyahoga County and the city of Cleveland cannot strike a deal soon. Cuyahoga County Commissioner Peter Lawson Jones made the observation today during a luncheon speech at a meeting of the Greater Cleveland Mortgage Bankers Association trade group. The commissioners this week reached a preliminary development agreement with Merchandise Mart Properties Inc. of Chicago for the trade show complex. Mr. Jones said if the city of Cleveland and the county do not have a final agreement by next Thursday, April 16, the commissioners will begin looking at other sites for the center, including sites near the Cleveland Clinic Foundation and University Hospitals at University Circle. The commissioners%u2019 preference is for a site on downtown%u2019s Mall. The possibility the landmark Play House site might become available broke publicly yesterday, April 8, when the troupe announced plans to move to PlayhouseSquare%u2019s Allen Theater. The Play House plans to offer for sale its 12-acre site and nearly 300,000-square-foot complex. Asked how serious the Play House site, which abuts a just-finished Cleveland Clinic garage, is as an option, Mr. Jones said its availability %u201Ccreates an opportunity worth exploring.%u201D Although the Cleveland Play House and associated parking lots occupy much of a block, it is smaller than the downtown Mall site. The city of Cleveland owns the existing convention center and Cleveland Public Auditorium, which is MMPI%u2019s favored site for the complex. Forest City Enterprises Inc. of Cleveland vigorously has challenged the viability and desirability of the Mall site for the complex compared with a site it owns on Huron Road near Tower City Center. http://www.crainscleveland.com/article/20090409/FREE/904099968 This is fluff. There is NO proof that MMPI is looking at any site but the mall. Stan should be ashamed for writing that.
April 9, 200916 yr Jeebus H! As much as I've learned to hate the Tower City proposal/Forest City, I think it would make a much more suitable fall-back than this location. Both would be fitting a square peg in a round hole, but at least the Tower City location has a number of amenities built-in and nearby; that cannot be reasonably denied. This, on the other hand...maybe the Lancer Motel to be expanded as the official convention hotel? :wink: Would be an additional boon for the Healthline, but I'd MUCH rather see this site be the future location of the Clinic research facility previously mentioned. And would the Clinic really want/allow such a massive parcel of land right on the edge of their campus, ripe for their own expansion, to be taken by another user that they would have no control of, for decades to come? As much as it pains me to say it, maybe the Clinic banking this site would be the best outcome for all concerned.
April 9, 200916 yr Personally I think bridging the railroad tracks and shoreway should be a project in itself, encompassing the land between W3rd and E9th at the very least. It could really become a dynamic public space that has connections to current and future infrastructure: new convention center, possible passenger rail station, RTA station, CBS, GLSC, & RRHOF access, while covering the railroad tracks and incorporating the Shoreway boulevard or covering that as well. Idealy this could all be looked at as part of the port site masterplan even though I dislike the firm that has been chosen to do that work. Really anything north of Lakeside could use some rethinking (obviously retaining City Hall and The Cuyahoga Courthouse though). Could be an interesting site for the 2009 Cleveland Design Competition.
April 9, 200916 yr It would sure screw Frank in a election year. The County would not continue to subsidize the current center under such circumstances. It sounds like they want some site work done this construction season. If things were going well with the City, this would not be mentioned.
April 9, 200916 yr Forest City Enterprises will seek the naming rights to the convention center.... Oh, I'm sorry, I thought today was the cold day and this location was hell. "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
April 9, 200916 yr Forest City Enterprises will seek the naming rights to the convention center.... Oh, I'm sorry, I thought today was the cold day and this location was hell.
April 10, 200916 yr The arrow is pointing the wrong way. "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
April 10, 200916 yr Med Mart comments on Cleveland.com are now being withheld pending approval. I guess they have my number. My comment regarded their bias language.(secret as opposed to confidential) UPDATE: they objected to the phrase "Piss poor reporting"
April 10, 200916 yr Does anybody have a clear understanding of the cost and what is considered an overrun? More specifically: -Is an overrun considered anything over $425 million, even though the tax is expected to collect $490 million? (and what happens with this excess amount) -Does the $425 million estimate include the MMP $20 million contribution? -Is the $425 million just an estimate, and can it increase based on design, to the expected county tax intake.... possibly allowing for more to be done/extras or expansion?
April 10, 200916 yr The way I have interpreted it is: The County is coming up with 15M for cost overrun/ unknown contingencies in a separate fund. If it is not used at the end of construction, MMPI can keep it for other uses. It would be a bonus/ incentive for them to bring the project in on time and budget. pg 21 sec. 5.2a Construction Cost Reserve Fund. It does not seem excessive considering the size of the project. Anyone that has built or remodeled anything knows sh** happens. Count on it. It seems they have. No hard #'s as no architectural approvals as of yet.
April 11, 200916 yr anyone got any info on the architects/firms they are pulling in? i would love to look them up and see what theyve cooked up. (obviously we have seen renderings but there are a lot more options on the way than what we have seen)
April 12, 200916 yr Author Anyone care to speculate on the Sunday hatchet job the PD will present this week. My guess, a Chris Kennedy expose.
April 12, 200916 yr Medical Mart project is slowly taking shape; some questions answered Posted by Jim Nichols and Joe Guillen/Plain Dealer Reporter April 12, 2009 04:00AM There are still a lot of questions without answers. But last week, Cuyahoga County taxpayers began to see the outlines -- and costs -- of what it will take to build a medical mart and convention center in Cleveland. We still don't know what the complex will look like, exactly how big it will be or what the final price tag may amount to. Plus, nothing publicly released to date explains how much it will cost the county to move out of its current Administration Building to make way for the medical mart, as is expected... http://blog.cleveland.com/metro/2009/04/medical_mart_project_is_slowly.html
April 12, 200916 yr That last paragraph tells me that Forest City Enterprises is trying to poison-pill the negotiations by influencing Mayor Jackson. And as you all probably know, FCE was a major contributor to Jackson's campaign in 2005 and is likely to be one again this year for his re-election. If Jackson attempts to be fair in the negotiations, then Jackson will be put under a lot of pressure from FCE. It's time for the public to put pressure on FCE. "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
April 12, 200916 yr Frank Jackson is the wielding monkey wrench, in this. That is where pressure needs to be applied. The County should notify the City that it will no longer subsidize the Cleveland owned Convention Center after a given date. I think Jackson is putting this project is serious jeopardy. As a end game, I think it is Jackson's intention to kill this deal and eventually get the property in FCE's hands for development with financing by the City/ Squires, Sanders & Dempsey( Lou Stokes, FCE Director, SS&D Senior Counsel and County Lobbyist) controlled Port Authority. MMPI has stated they will not go behind TC. I believe them. If the City will not sell, look for MMPI to withdraw and let the City wallow in self loathing and crippling stagnation under the boot of FCE/GCP for the foreseeable future. A very bleak prospect for Cleveland. Outside investment will simply dry up because of the dysfunctional political and business climate. I still believe this
April 12, 200916 yr Medical Mart project is slowly taking shape; some questions answered Posted by Jim Nichols and Joe Guillen/Plain Dealer Reporter April 12, 2009 04:00AM Plus, nothing publicly released to date explains how much it will cost the county to move out of its current Administration Building to make way for the medical mart, as is expected. http://blog.cleveland.com/metro/2009/04/medical_mart_project_is_slowly.html Did I miss something?
April 12, 200916 yr Pressure on FCE? Pressure should be on Jackson. I prefer to not have a mayor who can be bought off. This whole thing should be under the "Pet-Peeve" thread, as, imo, this is a perfect example of the ineptness of Cuy Co, the City, and other power-brokers.
April 12, 200916 yr Medical Mart project is slowly taking shape; some questions answered Posted by Jim Nichols and Joe Guillen/Plain Dealer Reporter April 12, 2009 04:00AM Plus, nothing publicly released to date explains how much it will cost the county to move out of its current Administration Building to make way for the medical mart, as is expected. http://blog.cleveland.com/metro/2009/04/medical_mart_project_is_slowly.html Did I miss something? It is well known the the County has outgrown it's current building. There has been talk of a private developer wanting to put a hotel in it's place, but that would certainly be separate from this deal, but is exactly the type of spin off development that has been anticipated for the surrounding area. The reporter is simply trying to further muddy the waters for the already confused general public.
April 12, 200916 yr As a further note, MMPI met FRIDAY with editors of the PeeDee to try to clear up some "confusion" that their reporters are suffering from. Two days later, no mention of the meeting and they still appear "confused".
April 12, 200916 yr Medical Mart project is slowly taking shape; some questions answered Posted by Jim Nichols and Joe Guillen/Plain Dealer Reporter April 12, 2009 04:00AM Plus, nothing publicly released to date explains how much it will cost the county to move out of its current Administration Building to make way for the medical mart, as is expected. http://blog.cleveland.com/metro/2009/04/medical_mart_project_is_slowly.html Did I miss something? I was wondering the same thing when I saw that. An article the other day did mention the posibility of the Med Mart locating where the County Building is if the current site could not be bought or was too expensive..... The first I saw that option mentioned..... Of course the above does nothing to explain or clarify that.
April 13, 200916 yr I recall that at least one convention booking expert indicating that the mall site would be inferior to Tower City, because it was blocks away from the types of downtown life that conventioneers seek. Well, as it happens, I just got back from the HIMSS Conference at McCormick Place in Chicago, attended by around 30,000 health care and IT types. While there is a Hyatt Hotel at the convention center, the hotels, restaurants, culture, shopping and entertainment of the Loop and River North are a few MILES away from the convention center. I got there each day by riding one of ten shuttle bus routes from my hotel (near the Water Tower). Even moving among sessions and keynotes within the vast center (equal to approximately three Cleveland IX Centers), it felt like I was walking farther in the building than from the mall site to Public Square. The exhibit areas even have columns holding up the ceiling, another alleged disadvantage of the Cleveland Convention Center. And with all of this, they do just fine. While the distances became a little annoying after a couple days, I have to say, I did find the architecure "soaring and open." It was exciting to be in such a facility. I have to say that as a Clevelander visiting Chicago, I sensed how Gulliver must have felt in Brobdingnag. The city blocks and building sizes felt very "scaled up" compared to what I am used to. My compliments to Chicagoans for their incredible downtown with life everywhere and downtown residences some as high as 60-70 stories in every direction. Let's hope that Cleveland can do a first rate center. As an aside, I was curious as to the maximum attendence that the proposed downtown convention center could handle.
April 13, 200916 yr Medical Mart project is slowly taking shape; some questions answered Posted by Jim Nichols and Joe Guillen/Plain Dealer Reporter April 12, 2009 04:00AM Plus, nothing publicly released to date explains how much it will cost the county to move out of its current Administration Building to make way for the medical mart, as is expected. http://blog.cleveland.com/metro/2009/04/medical_mart_project_is_slowly.html Did I miss something? It is well known the the County has outgrown it's current building. There has been talk of a private developer wanting to put a hotel in it's place, but that would certainly be separate from this deal, but is exactly the type of spin off development that has been anticipated for the surrounding area. The reporter is simply trying to further muddy the waters for the already confused general public. I think most who read this board understand the County's desire to move (there is a really long thread and lots of discussion on this issue), as well as the possibility for spin off development at the Admin bldg's current site for the CC/MM. I was more remarking at the comment that the County would have to move to "make room for the medical mart." The first renderings I ever saw of the mall site contemplated the medical mart stretching along Ontario from St. Clair to Lakeside with a connected hotel on the south end of that block. However, all of the latests concepts and comments from TPTB contemplate a smaller footprint for the MM without the need to demo the County admin bldg. Just wondering if something has changed.
April 13, 200916 yr Author Sometimes I think I am paranoid thinking the local paper is trying to kill this project. But when you read that article, every fact about it is so twisted on order to picture it in the worst possible light. I really want this tabloid/FCE newsletter version of the PD to go away. If that means the paper ceases operation, so be it
April 13, 200916 yr AND IN REVIEW Cleveland Medical Mart site makes sense; many questions remain Posted by The editors August 10, 2008 04:07AM Categories: Editorial A committee of Cleveland business and civic leaders says a new convention center and Medical Mart should be built along the banks of the Cuyahoga River, and they seem to have picked the best option. More at http://blog.cleveland.com/pdopinion/2008/08/cleveland_medical_mart_site_ma.html
April 13, 200916 yr again...the Plain Dealer and editorial BS. The folks at MMPI have clearly stated they are not interested in TC. I'm so sick of people using weather as a BS excuse. Let it go folks.
April 13, 200916 yr When are they going to move on? I'm really getting sick of this crap. Does FCE and the PD think MMPI will want to work with them after this debacle. Obviously, MMPI does not want to deal with FCE. I'm really losing hope this will get done. If FCE finds a way to bury this, I think I may be done with Cleveland for a very long time.
April 13, 200916 yr Just saying, look at the date how time change things. Everything is smooth until the Mall Site. Now they want to play a thousand questions.
April 13, 200916 yr Just saying, look at the date how time change things. Everything is smooth until the Mall Site. You should put the above information in the post with that article. I totally didn't look at the date. You got my pressure up for nothing. :-D
April 13, 200916 yr It is possible their editorial board simply and honestly likes the TC site better, and they're so certain they feel they must continue to push it in that direction... no FCE influence whatsoever. Even under that scenario, the PD is still in the wrong. It isn't the newspaper's job to decide where the thing gets built. It's their job to report the news objectively.
April 13, 200916 yr I was really upset. I need to slow down and read the date next time. You can tell I'm really on edge about this project. I just want it to get done. Hopefully, Frank Jackson will not throw a wrench in the project.
April 13, 200916 yr I was looking at some old PeeDee Positions. I think there's gold in those hills ;
April 13, 200916 yr It is possible their editorial board simply and honestly likes the TC site better, and they're so certain they feel they must continue to push it in that direction... no FCE influence whatsoever. Even under that scenario, the PD is still in the wrong. It isn't the newspaper's job to decide where the thing gets built. It's their job to report the news objectively. This is the Plain Dealer we're discussing. How often in the past 10 years have they been affective in reporting the news objectively??
April 13, 200916 yr Generally, I find the obituaries mostly accurate sometimes. Will Rogers? Sam Clemons?
April 13, 200916 yr Property tax exemption will be sought for medical mart complex Posted by Jim Nichols April 13, 2009 17:33PM Cuyahoga County will ask the state to exempt the proposed convention center and medical mart from millions of dollars per year in property taxes, a county official said Monday. If the $425 million complex gets built in downtown Cleveland, it would owe $8 million a year in property taxes, Deputy County Administrator Lee Trotter estimated Monday. If lawmakers were to grant full abatement on that $8 million, it would cost Cleveland schools nearly $3.7 million annually, based on a breakdown from the Cuyahoga County auditor... http://blog.cleveland.com/metro/2009/04/cuyahoga_county_will_ask_the.html
April 14, 200916 yr It is possible their editorial board simply and honestly likes the TC site better, and they're so certain they feel they must continue to push it in that direction... no FCE influence whatsoever. Even under that scenario, the PD is still in the wrong. It isn't the newspaper's job to decide where the thing gets built. It's their job to report the news objectively. Those are words that do no occur in the Cleveland Potentially Deceased paper's vocabulary https://www.instagram.com/cle_and_beyond/https://www.instagram.com/jbkaufer/
April 14, 200916 yr Author If lawmakers were to grant full abatement on that $8 million, it would cost Cleveland schools nearly $3.7 million annually, based on a breakdown from the Cuyahoga County auditor. Other would-be property-tax beneficiaries and their annual shares include: • Cuyahoga County itself - $2.1 million. • The city of Cleveland - $1.6 million. • Cleveland Public Library - $640,000. Trotter said he isn't clear on the process, but said other county officials soon will pursue the abatement. None of the government entities would lose much, if any, of the revenue they already get That's because most, or all, of the presumed site for the new complex is already government-owned, so it isn't subject to property tax.. So in reality its not costing the schools a dime, rather if it recieved no abatement the schools and other government entities would get extra money. How many times has the PD urged the use of tax abatements and TIF for development? But now, it's sinister.
April 14, 200916 yr Yeah, I thought that was misleading, too. They're not "losing" money. It would be better if they said they were going to "miss out" on money. That argument could be used for every tax abatement ever given. Plus, if the damn thing doesn't get built, there will be NOTHING AT ALL.
April 15, 200916 yr anyone got any info on the architects/firms they are pulling in? i would love to look them up and see what theyve cooked up. (obviously we have seen renderings but there are a lot more options on the way than what we have seen) Valedio DeWalt Train Asso.http://www.buildordie.com/index2.htm You can change the music in the top right corner.
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