well if gilbert was totally invested in the city instead of detroit, no wait, make that if he was a local billionaire like gund instead of a mere multi-millionaire with only sideline interests in the clev, i might listen closer.

 

i mean if the pd wants rich guy opinions why all this focus on gilbert? where are the local richie riches like the gunds, lerners, etc.? i bet an honest survey report of all their rich guy opinions wouldn't be so one-sided. even if they all said "no comment," like jacobs probably would, someone from the pd should have at least asked them all to round this out.

 

aww, what am i saying? i'm just sinking deeper into the peedee's muck pile.  :-P

 

 

 

Exactly .. which really makes me question the PD's unbiased reporting on this topic. They only print what appeals to their own itching ears and agenda.

Well, they just delivered my Scene Magazine. Excuse me while I wipe by fanny with it.

 

"How We Got Screwed" Tim Hagan's Road to Becoming Med Marts Chief Fixer by Dan Harkins

Well, at least the Scene is consistant, trash everything about Cleveland all of the time

 

I just spouted off a response online

I give Gilbert credit for having the cajones to say something.  Even if his choice for the location is self-serving, at least the man is letting his voice be heard.  What other of the city's "leaders" have come out and said something (I realize Maron and Jacobs but that was after the fact)?  Where is the freaking mayor.  This is what I can't stand about the guy, as not one shred of him is a leader.

http://clevelandmagazinepolitics.blogspot.com/2009/04/positively-cleveland-president-we-have.html

 

The Cleveland's a Plum People speak. as they are funded by the hotel tax and 33% goes to the Rock Hall, I can not find the dollar figure. Any help out there? I think 1.5 -2M

^Last page had something saying  Positively Cleveland gets about 60% of the tax.  if Positively Cleveland gets 5.5 mil, that means there's a little over 9 mil. total.  There's about 3 mil going to the rock hall, and the rest who knows...

Plum People are taking credit for EVERY visitor that comes to town. With that line of thinking, without them there would be no one.

 

"Roche and Joe Roman, president and CEO of the Greater Cleveland Partnership, got together and brainstormed ways to join forces in order to even more effectively market the Cleveland area. The result was Cleveland Plus, a regional brand composed of Positively Cleveland, Team NEO and the Greater Cleveland Partnership."

 

Look what I found. The hand of the infamous GCP.

I give Gilbert credit for having the cajones to say something.  Even if his choice for the location is self-serving, at least the man is letting his voice be heard.  What other of the city's "leaders" have come out and said something (I realize Maron and Jacobs but that was after the fact)?  Where is the freaking mayor.  This is what I can't stand about the guy, as not one shred of him is a leader.

 

I could'nt agree more

Plum People are taking credit for EVERY visitor that comes to town. With that line of thinking, without them there would be no one.

 

"Roche and Joe Roman, president and CEO of the Greater Cleveland Partnership, got together and brainstormed ways to join forces in order to even more effectively market the Cleveland area. The result was Cleveland Plus, a regional brand composed of Positively Cleveland, Team NEO and the Greater Cleveland Partnership."

 

Look what I found. The hand of the infamous GCP.

 

They've got to be some sort of mutant human-octopus hybrid for all the places they've got their hands.

The president of "Positively Cleveland" makes $340,000/yr!!!!

 

And he was able to keep his job after renaming the convention and visitors beaurau (HIV)Positively Cleveland??

The president of "Positively Cleveland" makes $340,000/yr!!!!

 

And he was able to keep his job after renaming the convention and visitors bureau (HIV)Positively Cleveland??

 

Come on folks, sounds like we are on a witch hunt.  Can the 340k be justified?  Do any of us know what his job description is and entails?

 

I'm not saying his salary is justified, but before we say it's too much, or he doesn't deserve it, what is too much for his position and duties??

 

To put it in perspective, that like me saying Punch makes $100k and he helped build/was a contractor on a tacky subdivision in Solon.

MTS, when you add in benefits and payroll taxes on that amount, he nearly costs the group 10% of its entire budget.

If hotel room bookings go down with the recession and they do not bring in 5.5Million for next year, one person could cost the group over 10% of its budget.

That is out of whack no matter how you look at it.

MTS, when you add in benefits and payroll taxes on that amount, he nearly costs the group 10% of its entire budget.

If hotel room bookings go down with the recession and they do not bring in 5.5Million for next year, one person could cost the group over 10% of its budget.

That is out of whack no matter how you look at it.

 

Again, is that salary in check with his peers?  What are his duties and what do they entail?  You cannot just look at a dollar amount.

The president of "Positively Cleveland" makes $340,000/yr!!!!

 

And he was able to keep his job after renaming the convention and visitors bureau (HIV)Positively Cleveland??

 

Come on folks, sounds like we are on a witch hunt. Can the 340k be justified? Do any of us know what his job description is and entails?

 

I'm not saying his salary is justified, but before we say it's too much, or he doesn't deserve it, what is too much for his position and duties??

 

To put it in perspective, that like me saying Punch makes $100k and he helped build/was a contractor on a tacky subdivision in Solon.

 

If these are hotel tax dollars he is being paid with (and I don't know that) I've got more questions.

I posted a link to the 2007 Annual Report for Positively Cleveland in the thread titled "Positively Cleveland"

I posted a link to the 2007 Annual Report for Positively Cleveland in the thread titled "Positively Cleveland"

 

I would love to find where it is buried.

The president of "Positively Cleveland" makes $340,000/yr!!!!

 

And he was able to keep his job after renaming the convention and visitors beaurau (HIV)Positively Cleveland??

 

That belongs in my Cleveland Nomencature thread.  What a stupid, stupid name.  And what a stupid salary to pay him, unless it's for him to buy a bus to physically ship people in here.

Actually, this salary discussion belongs in the Positvely Cleveland thread. Let's keep this to the convention center project, not the organization.

I think there is a huge problem trying to to sort these things out due to the inability to identify the interconnectivity in one place. What a tangled web they weave, when they try to deceive.

 

Even the old timers who know the history of things, have a hard time putting it all together.

And what a stupid salary to pay him, unless it's for him to buy a bus to physically ship people in here.

 

Haha

Actually, this salary discussion belongs in the Positvely Cleveland thread. Let's keep this to the convention center project, not the organization.

The hotel bed tax was made a public issue by the Mayor in Convention Center negotiations, and as such should be a part of this thread, but should not dominate the intercourse.

The hotel bed tax was made a public issue by the Mayor in Convention Center negotiations, and as such should be a part of this thread, but should not dominate the intercourse.

 

bed + intercourse.  Great way to tie that into the discussion!  ;)  he he he he.

I wonder what the Sunday PD hatchet article will be about this week. 

Frank and Joe are astute political animals. They know where the money comes from. Fortunately for the citizens, moneyed support as important as it is(the milk of politics) does not equal votes. We are blessed this is a election year. Frank wants to be Mayor. Joe wants to be a future Congressman. There are bad vibes in Ward 13. He could wind up Former Councilman with too much involvement. Same for Frank'n crime. Frank was able to balance the budget with the discounted early payoffs from numerous projects. Okay for now, but a problem down the road. The City needs revenue. The Mall is cash + parking + increased tax base for City coffers. Frank walks a fine line. He rightly needs to get a good deal for the property. He now knows there are other interests besides FCE/PeeDee, whose influences are fading. He can not appear to have lost this project.  He can not lose it. It would be a financial disaster for the City. 

 

With the $800,00 non compliance fine over City hiring practices and the $10M traffic ticket class action lawsuit,  negotiations are in full swing. Frank says it will put the city in deficit not default if forced to pay the 800K. He has only kept the City in black with the deep discounted early payoff of loans due the City. Combine that with it being a election year, I think he is getting serious, because he is starting to smell the coffee.

No PD article!  I get to spend a Sunday not all fired up

Since the site by the convention center wants an additional 7 million, and the city concil will not oblige what are the chances of it being built by Tower City?

Since the site by the convention center wants an additional 7 million, and the city concil will not oblige what are the chances of it being built by Tower City?

 

WHAT?  What are you talking about??  :wtf:

Not really about the med mart but interesting, no other place to post really.....

 

 

Medical mart exec reported to be considering run for U.S. Senate

Posted by Jim Nichols/Plain Dealer Reporter

April 28, 2009 22:15PM

 

Christopher Kennedy, who brought life to the idea of a medical mart and convention center in Cleveland, might be ready to try to move into the other family business by running for Senate in Illinois.

 

That shouldn't hang out to dry the $425 million medical mart complex, two Cuyahoga County commissioners said Tuesday...

 

http://blog.cleveland.com/metro/2009/04/medical_mart_exec_reported_to.html

 

that was suprisingly non-tabloidesqe.  It was kind of complimentary to MMPI.

No Sunday hatchet job, now this?  Maybe Cosgrove threatened to pull all clinic advertising from the paper.

 

Either way, its a nice change

Well this is going to be interesting..

 

http://blog.cleveland.com/metro/2009/04/cuyahoga_county_commissioners_5.html

 

Cuyahoga County commissioners give Cleveland a deadline for accepting ther final offer for the downtown convention center

Posted by Joe Guillen April 29, 2009 13:49PM

Cuyahoga County commissioners have set a Friday deadline for the city of Cleveland to accept their final offer of $17.5 million buy the convention center for the medical mart project.

 

Commissioner Peter Lawson Jones said the county will consider other sites, including the University Circle area, if an agreement isn't reached by then.

 

The county's offer includes costs for land, relocation of city employees who work in the center and lost parking revenue...

what the hell?????

 

Is this just more PD shock and awe or there really a chance the med mart will not go on the Malls??

What a sad, sad situation.  We've spoken on it in this thread before, but it seems the mayor is definitely in Forest City's pocket.

I wonder how the Mayor will spin this? The city is facing possible budget shortfalls, and he is going to let an antiquated, mostly empty convention center just sit there? Explain that to your constituents, Mr. Mayor. Honestly, I just want the project done. I don't even care where it is anymore.

This is starting to embarass this city more than the Browns! 

Honestly, I just want the project done. I don't even care where it is anymore.

 

This is really how the average citizen gets screwed.  We get so fed up with all the bs going on, we acquiesce to the foolish wants of the people in power.  I totally agree with you, btw.  If it's TC MM v. no MM, I choose the former.  I mean, would absolutely any good be derived from not having the MM?

 

 

---------------

Did anyone post this yet?

 

http://www.coolcleveland.com/index.php?n=Main.MedMartSnafuContinues

 

 

Med Mart Mess Continues Our Civic Sleaziness

 

 

 

A friend wrote me to say she had one drink at an E. 4th new street restaurant. The bill: $13. She questioned it. The server proclaimed, "This is DOWNTOWN." Downtown? Downtown Manhattan, you mean?

 

 

I bring this up only because E. 4th Street's development rests upon oodles and oodles of tax subsidies. And now one of its principals, Ari Maron, has inserted his mouth into the Medical Mart situation.

 

 

The Plain Dealer is welcoming all to this civic food fight. Its front page is wide open to manipulation. Developers aren’t missing a chance.

 

 

Everyone wants to get into the act. Maron has now attacked Dan Gilbert for backing the Tower City site.

 

 

He - as all developers - knows how generous government can be.

 

 

The city put fancy curbing and a brick road to service Maron’s East 4th development and closed the street to traffic, making it a private estate. The County had to reduce property valuations on Euclid Ave., thus taxes, to help with tax incremental financing for this development via a $9.2-million bond issue ($12.8 million with interest) from the City of Cleveland to subsidize building rehabilitation. (Council heard this legislation for 14 hours one day. A councilman, a lawyer, voiced his frustration of the lack of details saying, “After 14 hours, I can’t comprehend this information.” Just give us the money, cheapskates.

 

 

Across the street from East 4th at the Old Arcade subsidies also flowed: $8.26 million in a historic tax credit; $6.45 million in property taxes diverted to its fix-up; a city 30-year loan of $1 million with zero interest rate for 20 years and two percent thereafter; another $3 million loan for 20 years with a 6 percent interests and a 20-year County loan at 2.5 percent interest. Anything else you might want?

 

 

Cuyahoga County had to reduce some property tax values to help with the House of Blues in the East 4th & Euclid development. No problem.

 

 

Why even the bowling alley at the East 4th Street development got $1.5 million from the city. Economic development, don’t cha know.

 

 

So Maron understands the game. His opinion shouldn’t be given Page One exposure as an independent voice. However, the Plain Dealer is fueling the fight over where the new complex will go. Does Sam have an in there?

 

 

Developer John Ferchill also chirped in to counter arguments by Dan Gilbert of the Cleveland Cavaliers. Gilbert decried the Mall site. Ferchill decried Gilbert’s theory about sites.

 

 

Ferchill, however, has long had his sights on the historic Cleveland Board of Education administration building. It sits not uninterestingly right across from the city’s convention center and opposite Mall A from the Marriott. Ferchill wanted to spirit away the Board of Education building and a plot of school land behind it to build – guess what – a luxury hotel. His plot in the early 1980s fell apart. Dreams, however, linger forever with developers.

 

 

There’s more honey in this one than you can guess.

 

 

Sleaze is oozing by the ton here in Cleveland as that mountain of Cuyahoga County dough – up to $1 billion in cost to the taxpayer – sits around for a so-called Medical Mart and convention center.

 

 

The grabbing is so unappetizing. (Laugh here).

 

 

Is there a single business entrepreneur in town that will risk his or her own money? Not when the pols are giving it away so readily. Thank you again, Tim.

 

 

You’ll remember that the Tower City Gang – Sam Miller and Al Ratner and company – desperately wants to MM/CC (Medical Mart and Convention Center) in the backyard on its land (price $40 million or so).

 

 

So they brought out Dan Gilbert, Cavalier team owner, to cry against mall site. (The Mall was selected by the County Commissioner along with MMPI. The deal is not dotted and crossed yet.)

 

 

The Jacobs Gang is in favor of the Mall. It wants the $1 billion or so spent nearer the Marriott hotel, as evidenced by Sunday’s newspaper ad by son Jeff Jacobs. The ad – full-page – says that the Mall site is best. It just happens to be across from daddy’s project – Key Center and the Marriott, and the underground garage under Mall A given Dick Jacobs by George Forbes and George Voinovich. The Georges, as council boss and mayor respectively, were a tag team of delivery boys to Jacobs.

 

 

The Plain Dealer reported that Jacobs has sold his interests but still operates and manages the properties. Good enough for me to indicate family interest.

 

 

Further, Jacobs built the Key/Marriott complex on the north side of Public Square.

 

 

He got the same sweet deal from the two Georges to build on the west side of Public Square. That site remains a parking lot. Jacobs knocked down a number of office buildings that occupied that site in the late 1980s.

 

 

So the site sits conveniently diagonally across from the Key/Marriott complex.

 

 

Jacobs in 1989 planned to build a second office building and a Hyatt Hotel. The real estate market declined and the site remained empty.

 

 

Awaiting a market change.

 

 

It would be a block from the MM/CC. Still advantage Jacobs.

 

 

The battles between Jacobs and Sam/Ratners have a long history. They fought to get Cuyahoga County to buy buildings for a new headquarters. You’ll remember Jacobs’ E. 9th and Euclid Avenue Ameritrust corner won out over Sam/Ratners’ Higbee’s building as the future home for County government. The County choose Jacobs.

 

 

They both fought a battle never settled for development of the Bluffs area, west of Jacobs’s Galleria. That fight, too, awaits another time.

 

 

Now they are fighting again, despite the lack of direct ownership at the Marriott.

 

 

Our Sleaze characters have perfected how to glom up public subsidies. They are on the trail of another bonanza.

 

 

Time to take another look at the rapacity. I try to keep it a simple accounting. Know, however, that you helped pay for it.

 

 

Here are some of the goodies given to Jacobs and to Sam & the Ratners:

 

 

DICK JACOBS:

 

 

- $3.5 million for the Galleria. (This and others below are loans that typically last 20 years and carry no interest with payment due at the end of the 20-years. A number were cashed in early at reduced rates.)

 

 

- $10-million for Key Center.

 

 

- $10-million for the Marriott Hotel.

 

 

- $2.5 million for the Mall A underground parking facility in front of the Marriott.

 

 

- Tax abatement for Key Center, Marriott Hotel and Mall A parking facility.

 

 

- Managing partnership at Chagrin Highlands on city land, a $530-million project. (For more on this, click here)

 

 

- A $138-million road improvements at I-271 to Chagrin Highland development.

 

 

- $181-million for Jacobs Field (now Progressive Park).

 

 

- Rights held for years to build on city properties at E. 12 & St. Clair. Never built and had to return land to city.

 

 

- $22-million from Cuyahoga County for the East 9th Street corner (with added costs expected to be a $37.4 million cost plus $4 million for asbestos removal).

 

 

- The County agreed to honor Jacobs with a metal plaque to be placed on any new building at this site. It would read:

 

 

“Richard E. Jacobs – Mr. Jacobs has consistently and selflessly devoted his insight, skills and resources to the development, redevelopment, and preservation of Downtown Cleveland and Cuyahoga County. This complex, which includes the historic Rotunda, symbolizes the legacy that Mr. Jacobs has established through his leadership in development and owning many of this County’s major commercial, retail, and recreational facilities.” How nice of Tim Hagan, Jimmy Dimora and Peter Lawson Jones.

 

 

SAM MILLER & RATNERS:

 

 

- $10-million for Tower City retail building.

 

 

- $2.7-million for Tower City III renovation.

 

 

- 2.04-million for Tower City IIIa renovation.

 

 

- $7.9-million for Ritz-Carleton hotel.

 

 

- $9.2-million Tower City-Old Post Office building renovation.

 

 

- $9.2-million Halle Office Building on Euclid Ave.

 

 

- $69-million RTA Waterfront line serving Tower City.

 

 

- 20-year, no interest tax abatement on Ritz-Carleton hotel.

 

 

- $10-million from RTA as a result of a lawsuit as Forest City acted as construction manager for RTA’s station in FOREST CITY. (Add $1.7-million ruled by an arbitrator who tacked on $708,000 with an interest rate of $16.5).

 

 

- $13-million by RTA for walkway from Gateway into Tower City.

 

 

- RTA pays about $1 million a year to Forest City for common area maintenance at its Tower City station. Then Forest City charges $75 a month (may have gone up) for rubbish collection; and tens of thousands of dollars for electricity, heating and air conditioning (2000 figures).

 

 

Sam and the Ratners have asked, as far as I know, for no plaques. Just give them the money.

 

 

I guess we’re still going to spent $1 billion on an unnecessary convention center because our Civic Leeches can’t think of what else to do.

 

 

The Economist Magazine took a look at Cleveland in the late 1990s in an article appropriately entitled: “Has Cleveland mortgaged its tomorrows?” I’d say Cleveland just gave tomorrow away.

 

 

The article ended this way: “New buildings look good, but often money is better spent on people. Oddly, the city’s earlier barons knew that. John D. Rockefeller poured his millions into education (In Chicago, however, since our leaders spurned his offer). The Mathers, of coal fame, put theirs into hospitals. And even the Van Sweringens, who ran a huge railway trust and were great builders, had a different view of urban development. They financed a whole new suburb, Shaker Heights, early this century. And they did it without a public subsidy.”

 

 

Now, the private interests simply line up for a swig and the swag at the public trough.

 

 

Human pigs. Very big appetites.

 

 

Free Health Care For 42 Years, George Says "No" to Us

 

 

 

George Voinovich has been on government health care for 42 years. Guess who won’t vote to extend health care to us?

 

 

Oh, yeah. George Voinovich, part of the Republican “NO” team that wants to stop President Barack Obama’s extended health care legislation.

 

 

All Republicans are presently considered “no” votes on a reasonable health care legislation. They are planning to filibuster the Obama plan.

 

 

The Republicans are indeed planning to obstruct the U. S. Senate to keep Americans from having reasonable health care legislation this year. See the New York Times story here.

 

 

 

There are now more than 46 million people in the United State without health insurance, including many children. See information here.

 

 

 

The Voinovich family hasn’t had to worry a bit about such troubles for the last 42 years thanks to the taxpayers.

 

 

YOU PAID THEIR HEALTH INSURANCE!

 

 

Our George first went on the health care dole in 1967 when he became a state legislator. He’s remained on it and presumably as a retired U. S. Senator he will for the rest of his life.

 

 

Call Sen. Voinovich’s office and tell him to stop denying health care to his constituents. His home office number is 216-522-7272. It’s best to call this office to tell him your opinion. You can e-mail him here.

 

 

 

C’mon George, finally do something for someone else – someone not wealthy

 

^This is an example of the kind of journalism that dumbs things down. Flash the "public subsidy" examples in peoples eyes and get them to believe that all developers are evil. It would help to have a healthy conversation on the plusses and minusses of public subsidy and how it has impacted Cleveland and the local economy. Instead, Cool Cleveland decides to demonize anyone who uses public financing in order to fool readers into lending it some sort of journalistic credibility. Why would you call Maron out for the comments that he made? His comments were based upon sound city planning principles. But no, CC doesn't mention the substance of his comments at all. They just mention how the City made improvements to E.4th Street to help kickstart his development. Sure he benefited from it, but so has Cleveland. Did you expect the Maron's non-profit arm to tackle the E.4th project. C'mon CC, don't be naive.

Well, they gave a column to Roldo.  'Nuff said.

Well, they gave a column to Roldo.  'Nuff said.

 

I agree with 3231.  X, I don't think the casual reader or person not familiar with what is going on in Cleveland proper  will get it. They'll see dollars and cents and think that the developers are trying to get away with something.

^This is an example of the kind of journalism that dumbs things down. Flash the "public subsidy" examples in peoples eyes and get them to believe that all developers are evil. It would help to have a healthy conversation on the plusses and minusses of public subsidy and how it has impacted Cleveland and the local economy. Instead, Cool Cleveland decides to demonize anyone who uses public financing in order to fool readers into lending it some sort of journalistic credibility. Why would you call Maron out for the comments that he made? His comments were based upon sound city planning principles. But no, CC doesn't mention the substance of his comments at all. They just mention how the City made improvements to E.4th Street to help kickstart his development. Sure he benefited from it, but so has Cleveland. Did you expect the Maron's non-profit arm to tackle the E.4th project. C'mon CC, don't be naive.

 

I completely agree... that article was a rancid sack of garbage.

Roldo is the reason I stopped reading cool cleveland

 

I would like to see if the tone of the Kennedy for Senate story will be continued in the PD, or was it just a momentary slip up.

^I'm glad I'm not the only one who stopped reading cool cleveland because of Roldo. I thought I was being too harsh on the old guy.

^I'm glad I'm not the only one who stopped reading cool cleveland because of Roldo. I thought I was being too harsh on the old guy.

 

Same here

Not sure if this was posted earlier, if it was I missed it- does anyone have an idea of what the city was asking for the convention center?  Just curious how far off the 17.5mil offer really is

Frank & The Council put a poison pill in last November by extending the Park Corp. lease on the IX Center KNOWING that when the new Center was build they would have to payoff only about a year and with the new lease it is substantially more. WHY?

 

My advice to MMPI is:

 

If you can't secure the Mall Site get the hell out of here. I'm right behind you. The City is it's own worst enemy and is committed to suicidal behavior.

Not sure if this was posted earlier, if it was I missed it- does anyone have an idea of what the city was asking for the convention center? Just curious how far off the 17.5mil offer really is

 

They want $25M.

 

Commissioners set Friday deadline for Convention Center deal

 

CLEVELAND -- There's another possible snag in the plans to build a Medical Mart and new Convention Center.

 

Cuyahoga County Commissioners met Tuesday in executive session and came out issuing an ultimatum. They're telling Mayor Frank Jackson and the city a deal to sell the Convention Center to the county for the Medical Mart project must be done by Friday.

 

If it's not done by then, Commissioner Peter Lawson Jones said, "We will consider other sites."

 

Those sites include some close to University Circle and big hospitals. MMPI originally favored building the project there, but commissioners decreed it must be built downtown.

Frank & The Council put a poison pill in last November by extending the Park Corp. lease on the IX Center KNOWING that when the new Center was build they would have to payoff only about a year and with the new lease it is substantially more. WHY?

 

My advice to MMPI is:

 

If you can't secure the Mall Site get the hell out of here. I'm right behind you. The City is it's own worst enemy and is committed to suicidal behavior.

 

I wondered that myself!  :wtf:

What leverage does Frank have? If this falls through, he becomes the fall guy and the city misses out on 17.5 million. There has to be a compromise here. I can't imagine Frank just sitting on this "valuable asset", especially when there are no other suitors. Either way, this has become terribly embarrassing.