This is only my unprofessional observation, but it seems pretty unlikely that MMPI is the only company that would be able to run "fill in the blank" marts. originaljbw made the suggestion that University Hospitals and the Cleveland Clinic could jointly run a Medical Mart/Convention Center, and I don't see why they couldn't.  They both run medical events through their hospitals.  This is just on a larger scale.

 

Are these marts really so hard to run that we have to hire some guys from Chicago who don't care about Cleveland?

 

If you go to clevelandmedicalmart.com you will see rendering concepts of a nice glass building on St Clair, with a raised mall with numerous entrance pavilions, and a renovated public auditorium with meeting rooms. This is what we were told we were gonna get and I don't think we should compromise for anything less.  Yes, that will require some more funding but I think it's worth it.

This is only my unprofessional observation, but it seems pretty unlikely that MMPI is the only company that would be able to run "fill in the blank" marts. originaljbw made the suggestion that University Hospitals and the Cleveland Clinic could jointly run a Medical Mart/Convention Center, and I don't see why they couldn't.  They both run medical events through their hospitals.  This is just on a larger scale.

 

Are these marts really so hard to run that we have to hire some guys from Chicago who don't care about Cleveland?

 

If you go to clevelandmedicalmart.com you will see rendering concepts of a nice glass building on St Clair, with a raised mall with numerous entrance pavilions, and a renovated public auditorium with meeting rooms. This is what we were told we were gonna get and I don't think we should compromise for anything less.  Yes, that will require some more funding but I think it's worth it.

 

Have you ever been to a merchandise mart or understand the concept?  Hell we run several trade shows, conventions, seminars, conference however, I would think twice about going up against a company that manages the venues, the marketing and production, space management and has the drawing power to bring in top notch conventions and trade shows.  The Clinic, for all it's good, doesn't have that power.

"Hagan has said that the county can't shoulder all of the costs and risk by fully financing both parts of the project and wants MMPI to commit a significant amount to startup costs." from PD article.

 

I am still waiting to see their first nickel. I want to SEE ($$$) their commitment to the project. So far, we have pictures and promises unfulfilled. We have heard what they can't do. What can they do? Make more renderings? Are these folks credible at this point?

No I've never been to a merchandise mart, but I do understand the concept. Like I said, that was just my unprofessional observation. It just seems unlikely to me that MMPI is the only company that can run a medical mart. UH and the Clinic was just one suggestion since I can't think of another company that could do that off the top of my head.

No I've never been to a merchandise mart, but I do understand the concept. Like I said, that was just my unprofessional observation. It just seems unlikely to me that MMPI is the only company that can run a medical mart. UH and the Clinic was just one suggestion since I can't think of another company that could do that off the top of my head.

What has the clinic or UH done on this scale and magnitude, that makes you think they can run a facility like the MM?

I don't know, manage tens of thousands of employee's, bring in the best of the best in medicine, build a brand name that is recognizable around the world.  i guess not much.  They may not have the people to do it on hand but with their recognition they could easily draw the right people to venture into the world of selling and marketing the products they use and probably develop, since they are on the cutting edge of everything medical.

I don't know, manage tens of thousands of employee's, bring in the best of the best in medicine, build a brand name that is recognizable around the world.  i guess not much.  They may not have the people to do it on hand but with their recognition they could easily draw the right people to venture into the world of selling and marketing the products they use and probably develop, since they are on the cutting edge of everything medical.

 

haha agreed. This is hardly rocket science. The Clinic would have little problem of making it a success. Having worked in the event marketing field in my life, most of those in charge have little credibility  but somehow manage to get it done. All in all I am not ready to panic with the challenges MMPI is facing at this point. My belief is that a ton of work is going on behind the scene and should all be resolved very soon.

^^Exactly!

 

MyTwoSense, I have never said that the Clinic or UH has done anything on that scale and magnitude but I really don't have any reason to doubt that they could.

 

But that was just a suggestion (not even mine actually). Likely, Cleveland is going too stick with MMPI and HOPEFULLY there is a lot more negotiating happening than what there appears to be.

Bringing in the Clinic or UH would just add an extra cut in the pie.  They would just go ahead and hire MMPI or a company like MMPI to run it for them.

 

 

^^Exactly!

 

MyTwoSense, I have never said that the Clinic or UH has done anything on that scale and magnitude but I really don't have any reason to doubt that they could.

 

But that was just a suggestion (not even mine actually). Likely, Cleveland is going too stick with MMPI and HOPEFULLY there is a lot more negotiating happening than what there appears to be.

 

Does renegotiating the entire contract between MMPI and the county count as more negotiating?

I don't know, manage tens of thousands of employee's, bring in the best of the best in medicine, build a brand name that is recognizable around the world. i guess not much. They may not have the people to do it on hand but with their recognition they could easily draw the right people to venture into the world of selling and marketing the products they use and probably develop, since they are on the cutting edge of everything medical.

 

haha agreed. This is hardly rocket science. The Clinic would have little problem of making it a success. Having worked in the event marketing field in my life, most of those in charge have little credibility but somehow manage to get it done. All in all I am not ready to panic with the challenges MMPI is facing at this point. My belief is that a ton of work is going on behind the scene and should all be resolved very soon.

 

I seem to recall that back in ther ealy '80s the Clinic and UH along with Forest City (as developer) were going top transform the downtown post-office into a medical mart.  They obviously couldn't fdo it then and I highly dount that they couls do it now.  By some of the rationale above ANY company could do this by virtue of the fact that they are in business already.  Reminds me of the Holiday Inn Express commercials:  "I'm not MMPI but I did stay at a Holiday inn Express last night".  These marts are what MMPI does.  The Clinic and UH are consumers of the products not marketers

All I am suggesting is lighting a fire under the arses of the MMPI. Right now they have grabbed the whole process by the 'nads and all we can do is say yessir, nosir! I would bet you if tomorrow they said "We want the medical mart out in Seven Hills" the county would start working quickly on some snazzy new land deals.

 

No I've never been to a merchandise mart, but I do understand the concept. Like I said, that was just my unprofessional observation. It just seems unlikely to me that MMPI is the only company that can run a medical mart. UH and the Clinic was just one suggestion since I can't think of another company that could do that off the top of my head.

I work in the Cleveland Clinic and have relatively low knowledge of what goes on at UH, so my exmples are from the Clinic only. I imagine UH has a lot of the same stuff in terms of infrastructure and support services.

They do reasonably large conventions fairly regularly. In 2007 the Clinic hosted the world congress of Endourology , which gathered around 2,500 doctors, hundreds of medical displays, meetings, and surgical theaters (and this was before the new buildings were open). They had to bring in a huge tent and stage to accommodate everything, but they did manage. There was also the grand opening of the Glickman Tower and the Miller Pavilion last year, which was a five day event with nighttime galas with attendance near 5,000 each night. More recently, with virtually zero dedicated exhibition space, they still managed to put on a nursing job and education fair with around 80 booths for various regional colleges and hospitals. 

 

These are three quick examples that jump into my head.

 

What has the clinic or UH done on this scale and magnitude, that makes you think they can run a facility like the MM?

I am not saying they could take over operations of a fully functional medical mart today, but give two or so years to build the whole thing they could develop and have everything in place.

I would say the strengths of having the hospitals in charge

(a) Both are large corporate-esque entities with tens of thousands of employees

(b) Permanent, dedicated and privately funded grounds crew, maintenance department, police force, media department, language translation services, power generators

© Moderate amounts of pre-existing smaller scale convention business, medical shows both in the hotels and in the Clinic itself.

(d) Cleveland Clinic Innovations - their private, in-house business incubator/small medical business mart^tm

(e) Ample Parking  :evil:

(f) Easy access to the Healthline  :angel:

 

Below is a map of the Cleveland Clinic and internal and external boundaries (orange). I have also noted out surface and garage parking (blue), actual medical and office buildings (yellow), recent and current demolitions (red solid boxes), and hotels/future hotels (green). In the top right is the Pittsburgh Convention Center just for comparative size purposes.

 

 

I dont think you kids understand what a merchandise mart is or how it functions to say that the Clinic/UH can build, run and manage one.

I dont think you kids understand what a merchandise mart is or how it functions to say that the Clinic/UH can build, run and manage one.

 

Exactly!  If it were that simple, we'd have done it without MMPI long ago

I dont think you kids understand what a merchandise mart is or how it functions to say that the Clinic/UH can build, run and manage one.

 

I agree. Then again, CC/UH could always contract with a specialty merchandiser to develop their own. And who has the expertise to do such a project? Why, the folks at Merchandise Mart, of course! :)

 

Exercise patience and let the MM/CC plan develop.

I think there's been a lot of patience exercised. The issue that I'm seeing arises when there are no clear competitive choices for the region to choose from. MMPI knows this, and they're gaming the system to their benefit. I'm not against having someone else throw out a proposal to build/run a merchandise mart if for no other reason than to keep MMPI honest, and negotiating in good faith.

True, if anything a CC/UH proposal would at least keep MMPI in line.

Unhealthy market KOs health products bldg.

 

Gary Barnett's proposed 60-story skyscraper on W. 34th Street -- cater-corner to the Javits Center -- is apparently kaput. The anchor tenant for the 1.5-million-foot tower, the World Product Centre, was supposed to take 1 million square feet, but will take advantage of falling rents and lease 300,000 feet elsewhere.

 

Read more: http://www.nypost.com/p/news/business/realestate/commercial/unhealthy_market_kos_health_products_ZQXbYxgU8wqcpjfgk3srJM#ixzz0aWl4m1LW

 

^Thanks, Bushwick for posting.  You in Brooklyn by any chance?

 

Good news for our med mart, but I don't like the sound of the WPC people looking for a 300k feet in an existing building.

 

"The advantages are we can deliver in 18 months and be considerably less expensive for our tenants," WPC CEO John Strong told a Nashville newspaper."

 

300k of affordable contiguous space doesn't exactly grow on trees in NYC though, hope it just to fizzles out.

 

 

 

 

Medical Mart "Location of the Month" Saga Continues (but this looks like good news)...

 

Cuyahoga County land deal could keep medical mart off Mall

By Laura Johnston, The Plain Dealer

December 24, 2009, 4:05AM

 

"CLEVELAND, Ohio -- Cuyahoga County is close to a land deal that could keep a proposed medical mart off Cleveland's downtown Mall.

 

By next week, the county could sign an option to buy an office building and parking garage on the northeast corner of St. Clair Avenue and Ontario Street, said the property owner's attorney, Joseph Tegreene.

 

The option would allow Chicago developer MMPI to demolish the structures to make way for the showcase of medical technology and abandon plans to build on the north end of Mall C."

 

http://www.cleveland.com/cuyahoga-county/index.ssf/2009/12/cuyahoga_county_land_deal_could_keep_medical_mart_off_mall.html

^^ Finally some good news!! That's the best location, and I'm very happy we're close to a deal.

i like the St Clair location.  This development helps in a number of ways.  it pressures the st clair owners because they no longer have MMPI over a barrell.  depending on how long the option is, it can be likely transfered to a CC hotel. 

Either way, the skys are clearing for the deal.

I hope they can also acquire that building between the county administration building and the 113 St. Clair building.

I hope they can also acquire that building between the county administration building and the 113 St. Clair building.

 

Do you mean the County Admin. Annex Bldg? I think they have that covered already.

I am curious about this "budget busting" stuff.

 

There seem to a lot of money available to get the deal done. This appears to be a very weak argument/ negotiating ployhttp://realneo.us/content/county-santa-hagan-very-good-mmpi-2009 despite what what Jones says.

this is really good news. i'm so glad its almost done and they wont have to build on the mall.

^I think the commissioners realized what a sh!tstorm trying to build on the mall would be so they stepped in to acquire the properties on St. Clair.  If this was MMPI's aim all along, then shame on them.

Medical Mart "Location of the Month" Saga Continues (but this looks like good news)...

 

Cuyahoga County land deal could keep medical mart off Mall

By Laura Johnston, The Plain Dealer

December 24, 2009, 4:05AM

 

"CLEVELAND, Ohio -- Cuyahoga County is close to a land deal that could keep a proposed medical mart off Cleveland's downtown Mall.

 

By next week, the county could sign an option to buy an office building and parking garage on the northeast corner of St. Clair Avenue and Ontario Street, said the property owner's attorney, Joseph Tegreene.

 

The option would allow Chicago developer MMPI to demolish the structures to make way for the showcase of medical technology and abandon plans to build on the north end of Mall C."

 

http://www.cleveland.com/cuyahoga-county/index.ssf/2009/12/cuyahoga_county_land_deal_could_keep_medical_mart_off_mall.html

 

Halle-frickin-lujah.

Tomorrow @ 10 am the County will announce the signing of a agreement with L&R properties for the purchase of the  113 Bldg and the corner parking lot. Negotiations for the Sportsman Restaurant are described as productive and expected to be completed in the near future.

^Wow, good news, thanks!

Very good news! YAY!

 

You know you're an urban nerd when things like this get you downright giddy!

First off, "Yay!"

 

Jesus that was one heartbreaking ugly public bluff on MMPI and the County part. Don't they know that there are those of us who follow every little development and the crap they were throwing out there was giving us coronaries!

 

So, just to recap for me, because I am easily confused.  Will the county have the rights to both the Ontario and St. Clair corners (pending Sportsman) very soon?

I believe if the reach a deal with the Sportsman the county/MMPI will now control that whole

block.

 

Well... on that block there is the County Admin building, the County annex building, the Sportsman, 113 St. Clair and the parking garage.  Isn't the parking garage part of the 113 property or at least owned by the same company?

Isn't the parking garage part of the 113 property or at least owned by the same company?

Yes

 

 

 

MMPI could break ground on a Cleveland medical mart by October

By Laura Johnston, The Plain Dealer

 

CLEVELAND, Ohio -- Developer MMPI could break ground by October on a much-anticipated medical mart for downtown Cleveland, according to a construction agreement introduced to Cuyahoga County commissioners this morning.

 

The county's contract attorney also said MMPI will abandon controversial plans to build the mart -- part of a taxpayer-financed $425 million convention center complex -- on the north end of the downtown Mall, between City Hall and the Lakeside Avenue courthouse.

 

From the article...

 

"The county plans to sign an option to buy an office building on St. Clair from L& R Investment Co., said the attorney, Jeff Appelbaum. And eminent domain could be used to transform other property into a public park.  Appelbaum did not say which property, but the Sportsman's Restaurant is sandwiched between L&R's office building at 113 St. Clair and its parking garage."

 

Huh?  First, I didn't think they'd have to use eminent domain and two, what's this public park stuff?

^Eminent domain for taking one business and giving it to another has some legal hurdles.  Taking a business for a public good, such as a park is less dificult.

 

So, the MM setback from St. Clair, roughly the length of the Sportsman restaurant will be a park....unless the owner and MMPI come to an agreement. 

I've got one, 5 times is apraised value and a 20 year rent free lease in the new facility. 

Quite correct Punch, but still a questionable approach for this site.  Why have a park abutting a park, when we can have a park abutting a park abutting a park abutting a park, right in the middle of downtown?  It's not like we're trying to encourage density.

i wouldn't read too much into it... sounds like a negotiating tactic to me.

 

sometimes I think this board is just a bunch of overzealous individuals collectively trying to watch the pot boil.  :lol:

bubble bubble toil and trouble

I say build around "the Sportsman" its only 14 ft wide or so. It has been at least five years since I have been in that place but all that I really remember is that everything smelled like smoke. I am not sure what happened after the smoking ban, but back then it didn't matter what the food tasted like becase it was over whelmed by the stale smoke.

 

Mayor, I think you have a point there...

I would have to agree with your point Mr. Mayor...for evidence go over to the Cleveland State Development thread...apparently people are or are going to be mugged left and right on East 13th Street.

I say build around "the Sportsman" its only 14 ft wide or so. It has been at least five years since I have been in that place but all that I really remember is that everything smelled like smoke. I am not sure what happened after the smoking ban, but back then it didn't matter what the food tasted like becase it was over whelmed by the stale smoke.

 

The latest news states they are very close to aquiring the Sportsman...  I didnt understand the park thing either.  I though maybe it meant behind, where the Chicago title building is, but I believe that is already owned by the county. 

Does a bench and a tree qualify as a park after MONTHS of claiming the property was need for the MM? It seems more like a blatantly transparent attempt to deprive a 60 year family business of their property rights and livelihood. This is a disingenuous argument meant to apply pressure on the little guy. A red herring similar to the "MALL D" nonsense.

More PD coverage of the NY Med Mart competition:

 

"As Cleveland settles medical mart questions, rival New York project raises new ones"

 

Full story: http://www.cleveland.com/cuyahoga-county/index.ssf/2010/01/as_cleveland_settles_medical_mart_questions_rival_new_york_project_raises_new_ones.html

 

Manhattan office rents are falling through the floor (soon to fall lower than DC according to NPR this morning) and vacancy is soaring.  Makes me worry a little more now about his proposal.

Ehh... I am not sure the deal will not result in the a windfall for the Sportsman's owners.  Perhaps they are just haggling over how much of a windfall it will be.  The threat of eminent domain use is just that IMO - a threat.  And a rather clever negoiation tactic also since, as explained above, it has some teeth

More PD coverage of the NY Med Mart competition:

 

"As Cleveland settles medical mart questions, rival New York project raises new ones"

 

Full story: http://www.cleveland.com/cuyahoga-county/index.ssf/2010/01/as_cleveland_settles_medical_mart_questions_rival_new_york_project_raises_new_ones.html

 

Manhattan office rents are falling through the floor (soon to fall lower than DC according to NPR this morning) and vacancy is soaring. Makes me worry a little more now about his proposal.

 

I'm still not overly concerned.  I think this "first to market" thing is a little overblown.  First to market was a medical mart in Alabama.  It failed.  Miserably.  What makes the "Cleveland" Medical Mart a good bet isn't "first" or "most space", it's the relationship with 3 of the nations top hospitals, a growing bio medical sector, and ability for some of these companies for manufacturing of their product in close proximity...

 

Assuming those guys get their 300,000 contiguous sf first, how close is it to the convention facilities, how do they "grow" without it being in another building... STILL where are they getting their financing from.  Loads of questions.

First to market was a distributor in Wisconsin, who offers one-stop shopping for various medical products without any sort of convention angle.  Honestly, I'm still not clear on how the convention angle meshes with the medical mart angle.  Because as far as having people go somewhere to look at health care supplies, that's really nothing new.

^Yeah, I would imagine that proximity to a shiny new convention center would set the Cleveland MM apart.  Maybe in our new age of austerity lower hotel costs will help too.  And I'm sure you're right about the financing.  No landlord is going to sign that kind of lease unless the tenant has some serious bucks behind them- which will require more than some letters of intent from vendors.  Not to mention the build-out costs. 

 

NYC is still a pretty significant medical center though (not the Clinic, but plenty of large prestigious hospitals) and it sure does attract business visitors, so I'm not counting them out yet.