mccleveland is right.

 

and greenerpastures..

 

some unimportant architect once said "god is in the details".. but for the life of me...

 

(as a fellow appreciator of sarcasm)

We are designing a SHOW space.

 

That's right...and it shouldn't look like an under ground WW2 bunker or cavern either. Lots of natural light could be a selling point..and this light does not have to be 'sunny' light...it could be cloudy outside and still have nice daylight.

The inclusion of natural light would save on energy costs too.  (you're slipping EC...)

But remember, every bit of natural light from skylights means less usable space on Mall B... Or, if they're clerestory windows, an elevated Mall B (which I think I prefer).

mccleveland is right.

 

and greenerpastures..

 

some unimportant architect once said "god is in the details".. but for the life of me...

 

(as a fellow appreciator of sarcasm)

 

Might want to reconsider that wording

Group lets keep this on topic

 

(and maybe look up the word sarcasm)

mccleveland is right.

 

and greenerpastures..

 

some unimportant architect once said "god is in the details".. but for the life of me...

 

(as a fellow appreciator of sarcasm)

 

Might want to reconsider that wording

Ludwig Mies van der Rohe? I guess you could call him important. Dull, but important.

ha of course he was important i was joking.. sorry about the sarcasm fail.

 

aaaaaaanyways what i would like to say is that natural light is great for a space, but not always great for SHOW space. companies want to put products on display and certainly do not want to be set up in a shadowy area with a competing product in a sunny area. lets look at LMN's track history of convention centers. they know what they are doing...

 

(this is what i see looking at pictures from lmnarchitects.com)

Wash State - No natural lighting on the floor space

Vancouver - Again natural light in lobby space, doesnt appear to be any in show space, though there are windows on the edges.

San Jose - Looks like they did bring in natural light for this one. It looks like they have 3 skylights, and a few completely glass walls. Though, looking at site orientation, these walls will not get much direct sunlight, only views (north and east wall, east being partly covered with a building). skylights probably diffused, looking at precedent.

LA - Hard to tell because they are in conceptual stages but it looks like they have some roof skylights to bring in some sweeping light but nothing direct. Also they have a north-facing curtain wall (which again wont get direct sunlight only bring views/soft light in)

Hawai'i - Very hard to tell with the pictures, but it appears they dont bring in direct sunlight only partially channeled/diffused light.

Duke/cinci - No direct sunlight in show space, only well lit entrance.

Dena'ina/anchorage - Skylights bring in diffused light, windows (dont know orientation), and very open entry space.

 

So we can see the trend here, LMN believes in natural light for a space, however, it is not always appropriate for show space. Therein I am going to go with this precedent and say that they will do their best to bring in natural light to the space without having direct light on the show floor. This will mean a well lit lobby space, and probably some sort of light chimney or diffused skylights. As well, it appears as there could be areas of glass which are not used as actual show space, so circulation and meeting space can have north facing (no heat gain) windows.

 

smart solution, imho.

I think LMN is boring and not very creative at all.

Also interesting to note, their Vancouver addition has an angley grass roof.  Good to see considering the Malls are the roof.  Hopefully they could show ways that could be angled over the tracks etc....

 

 

http://lmnarchitects.com/work/vancouver_convention_centre_west

Agreed that natural light in the lobby would be a good thing.  On the show floor not so much.

 

Maybe that rendering was of a lobby?

The space in that rendering is immense... seems like a lot for a lobby.  If it is, and the exhibit halls are attached to that, I guess we're digging a pretty big hole.   

 

assuming this wasn't staged by toby cosgrove, this wont help their cause..

 

 

Tenn. CEO compares Michelle Obama to chimpanzee

By Andrew McLemore

Saturday, March 6th, 2010 -- 8:21 pm

 

"I don't care who you are, ... this is funny."

 

Thus began an e-mail that Walt Baker, CEO of the Tennessee Hospitality Association, sent to to a few friends, the president of the Nashville Convention and Visitors Bureau, and several members of the....

 

 

http://rawstory.com/2010/03/tenn-ceo-compares-michelle-obama-chimpanzee/

 

The inclusion of natural light would save on energy costs too.  (you're slipping EC...)

 

Yes..I did neglect to mention that.... thanks.....That's another good point. If the windows are tinted that could filter out the blaring brightness that was a concern by someone who posted about it possibly affecting exhibits. There are many ways to capture the wanted light without having the unwanted glare...  Kind of like setting a giant pair of HD sun glasses over the mall. Such a design could possibly also cut down on companies needing to carry a lot of extra lighting equipment. Add lots of plants to the area too ala Oprey Land Hotel, IF there is room.

When was the last time you saw natural light in a theater?

 

Same concept here--except the actors on stage are the companies who lease space to put themselves on stage.  Natural light should not be included on the show floor when possible.  It negates the effects of millions of dollars invested in the flash and glitz of LED screens and hi-tech lights.

Are we still arguing over a rendering done in 2000, for a convention center that didn't even have a medical mart or lobby above ground? :)

 

why don't we just relax until we see what they come up with for this project. ;)  Shouldn't be too too much longer given the timetable.

When was the last time you saw natural light in a theater?

 

Same concept here--except the actors on stage are the companies who lease space to put themselves on stage.  Natural light should not be included on the show floor when possible.  It negates the effects of millions of dollars invested in the flash and glitz of LED screens and hi-tech lights.

 

That is a really good point.  My buddy is at NYU film school and I was asking him about sound stage use as opposed to outside filming at a legit location awhile back.  He said the same thing.  Why have millions of dollars of equipment where you can calibrate it to get what you want, both lighting, cameras, sound...

McCleveland is right however--no sense in arguing about until we see more current renderings.  I'm all for light in the lobby.  On the show floor not so much.  Let's hope the architects consider the uses of each.

 

 

http://clevelandmedicalmart.com/

 

I could be wrong but I don't remember the website having as much info on it before.  It is advertising pretty heavily that there will be 90 foot column spacing making the suspended ceiling design seem unlikely.

 

http://www.clevelandmedicalmart.com/event-planners/exhibit-halls/

 

^ im not sure but here are the floorplans

 

http://www.clevelandmedicalmart.com/event-planners/floorplans/

^The renderings and plans still show public auditorium, so I would assume that's still subject to change and the site hasn't been updated with the latest plans yet.

Cuyahoga County officials winnow med mart shortlist to four construction companies

 

CLEVELAND, Ohio -- Cuyahoga County commissioners are down to a final four construction firms vying to design and build a downtown medical mart and convention center.

 

Chicago developer MMPI will still manage the $425-million, taxpayer-financed project. But the new firm – which MMPI must select and the county must approve under a competitive proposal process -- will act as general contractors.

 

http://www.cleveland.com/cuyahoga-county/index.ssf/2010/04/cuyahoga_county_officials_winnow_med_mart_shortlist_to_four_construction_companies.html

Progress.....slowly but surely.

 

With the clinic great upping it's spending over the next 5 years, and the new health care reform passing, this concept is actually looking better and better.  40 more million Americans with health insurance should theoretically help NEO. 

 

Now let's get this concept going!

Cuyahoga County might lift $4 million cap on medical mart payments

By Laura Johnston, The Plain Dealer

April 10, 2010, 7:00AM

 

 

Thomas Ondrey, The Plain DealerAttorney Jeff Appelbaum explains the medical mart project in this file photo.

CLEVELAND, Ohio -- The private developer of Cuyahoga County's downtown medical mart and convention center wasn't supposed to get a dime more than $4 million until the company and county signed a lease.

 

But that lease is at least five months off. So now, the county might lift a $4 million cap on payments to Chicago-based MMPI and allow the developer to draw some portion of $8 million reserved for three years of construction payments, the county's lawyer said Friday.

 

http://www.cleveland.com/cuyahoga-county/index.ssf/2010/04/cuyahoga_county_might_pay_mmpi.html

<b>Dave Johnson Named PR Contact for Cleveland Medical Mart and Convention Center</b>

 

CLEVELAND - (Business Wire) Dave Johnson of Johnson Strategic Communications, LLC, has been named the public relations contact for the Cleveland Medical Mart and Convention Center (Cleveland MMCC), an MMPI, Inc. project to be constructed in downtown Cleveland with an expected groundbreaking in fall, 2010 and an opening date in 2013. Johnson will serve as the primary media contact for the Cleveland MMCC project.

 

 

http://www.earthtimes.org/articles/show/dave-johnson-named-pr-contact,1248209.shtml

How about dumping the Medical Mart and let Gilbert tie his casino/hotel to the Convention Center? Take the 600M put it in the General Fund and improve the County? It would create a great attraction and magnet.

Huh???

Cuyahoga County to borrow additional $30 million in stimulus bonds for the medical mart complex

 

CLEVELAND, Ohio -- Cuyahoga County will borrow another $30 million in federally-subsidized loans to pay for a proposed medical mart and convention center in downtown Cleveland.

 

In February, the county announced plans to use its entire $64 million allocation of stimulus bonds for the $425 million, taxpayer-financed project. Then, on Tuesday, officials announced the county won the right to issue additional stimulus bonds. The stimulus bonds are expected to reduce the county's borrowing costs by hundreds of thousands of dollars.

 

The county expects Chicago developer MMPI to break ground in October for the mart, a showplace of medical technology, on the northeast corner of St. Clair Avenue and Ontario Street and for a renovated convention center nearby, beneath Malls B and C.

 

http://www.cleveland.com/cuyahoga-county/index.ssf/2010/04/cuyahoga_county_to_borrow_additional_30_million_in_stimulus_bonds_for_the_medical_mart_complex.html

There was also this update about Nashville:

 

Nashville, Tennessee, medical mart announces second educational tenant

 

http://www.cleveland.com/cuyahoga-county/index.ssf/2010/04/nashville_medical_mart_announces_second_educational_tenant.html

 

And the new tenant, the Healthcare Information and Management Systems Society , passed up the marts proposed for Cleveland and New York City, a society official said Wednesday.

 

Instead, the Chicago-based nonprofit will open a 25,000-square-foot showcase in the Nashville Medical Trade Center, which is projected to be three times as large as the mart and convention center planned for downtown Cleveland.

 

"In our opinion this is the only comprehensive project," society Chief Executive Officer H. Stephen Lieber said in a phone interview. "The other two in my estimation are smaller-scaled."

 

Argh, the Chair-elect of this group is the IT Chair at the Cleveland Clinic.  Oh well.  We'll see if Nashville even happens.

 

Ten local firms join Cleveland convention center/med mart design team

 

By JAY MILLER

 

2:32 pm, April 29, 2010

 

MMPI Inc. announced that 10 local firms and two nonprofit organizations are joining the design and engineering team for the $425 million Cleveland convention center and medical merchandise mart project.

 

Two nonprofit organizations, ParkWorks Inc. and Cleveland Public Art, will work with MMPI to design the public spaces on the malls above the underground convention center.

 

In addition to those partners, MMPI announced nine firms that will tackle specific pieces of the massive project.

 

http://www.crainscleveland.com/article/20100429/FREE/100429784

Awesome

Have they already announced who the local Architect will be (Architect of Record)? or are they not having one?  I'm surprised they would utilize all of those local firms for engineering, or was that part of the deal?

If we had half as many announced tenants as we do "team members" I'd feel a lot better about the progress on this project.

If we had half as many announced tenants as we do "team members" I'd feel a lot better about the progress on this project.

 

Ha, I'm pretty sure they have some lined up, just not releasing the names yet.  I would think now that the Nashville one did they should follow suit.  I'm sure companies were playing the two locations off each other for best pricing.

If we had half as many announced tenants as we do "team members" I'd feel a lot better about the progress on this project.

 

Ha, I'm pretty sure they have some lined up, just not releasing the names yet.  I would think now that the Nashville one did they should follow suit.  I'm sure companies were playing the two locations off each other for best pricing.

 

also, this announcement doesn't mean a binding contract has been signed.  I didn't read the whole article, but doesn't sound like anything is "final".

So far the two tenants signed are not for profit companies that don't sell anything.  The purpose all along was to have a facility for medical device makers to show their goods. 

 

It's like having a community college in a mall, it keeps the lights on, but does not add to the shopping experience.

In Crain's today, there is a subscription-only article discussing status of getting conventions and tenants to sign up.  Hagan is quoted as "16 or 17" conventions are lined up.  And apparently, Mark Falanga, the MMPI VP, has said that they have 35 to 40 letters of intent with manufacturers.  The article goes on to say that they are keeping these things quiet as they do not want to ignite a bidding war or disclose competitive information.

 

http://www.crainscleveland.com/article/20100503/SUB1/305039963

In Crain's today, there is a subscription-only article discussing status of getting conventions and tenants to sign up. Hagan is quoted as "16 or 17" conventions are lined up. And apparently, Mark Falanga, the MMPI VP, has said that they have 35 to 40 letters of intent with manufacturers.   The article goes on to say that they are keeping these things quiet as they do not want to ignite a bidding war or disclose competitive information.

 

http://www.crainscleveland.com/article/20100503/SUB1/305039963

 

Interesting....just as I thought

One step closer... FYI, the finalization of this deal will also allow for funding of the 2nd phase of the Perk Park Reconstruction.

 

Cuyahoga County tentatively agrees to buy Cleveland's old convention center for $20 million

By Laura Johnston, The Plain Dealer

May 13, 2010, 11:22AM

 

 

CLEVELAND, Ohio -- Cuyahoga County has tentatively agreed to buy Cleveland's old convention center for $20 million, and to help pay for the separation of the mostly underground facility from the city's Public Auditorium.

 

 

The deal, announced this morning at a meeting of the commissioners, clears another hurdle for the county's plans to build a new convention center beneath the downtown malls and to erect an above-ground medical mart on the west side of the complex.

 

"We're working hard to make sure the convention center, the malls and Public Auditorium can work together for the highest benefit of the public," said Jeff Appelbaum, a lawyer hired by the county to oversee the project.

 

 

more at: http://www.cleveland.com/cuyahoga-county/index.ssf/2010/05/cuyahoga_county_agrees_to_buy_cleveland_on_the_sale_of_the_citys_old_convention_center_for_20_millio.html

 

From the above article

"The proposed new deal, spelled out in a letter of intent, contains at least one controversial  provision that would give the city and county equal shares in any proceeds from naming rights for the new complex."

 

I think the city is being a bit greedy here.  The county is buying the convention center without Public Auditorium for $20M, the original figure for both. 

Notice how the headline said not just The Cleveland Convention Center.. But they had to add "OLD"  Just seems like they cannot resist any chance to dash in any tiny bit of negative tone to something. I'm probably reading in too deeply, tough. But then again, I didn't know we had a "new" one either!  :wink:

well, technically the city owns the IX center, so that might be the new one

I am confused.  Who owns Public Auditorium right now and who will own it after this deal goes down?

^The city owns and will continue to own public auditorium.  They are selling the underground convention center to the county.

WOIO reporting that a deal has been struck with the Sportsman restaurant.

 

http://www.woio.com/global/story.asp?s=12511120

"Nobody on either side of deal is talking but sources tell 19 Action News say that the deal is done."

ha

Here ya go:

 

Cuyahoga County commissioners announce the final property deal for a proposed med mart

By Laura Johnston, The Plain Dealer

May 20, 2010, 10:34AM

 

CLEVELAND, Ohio -- Cuyahoga County this morning announced a $3.1 million option to buy Sportsman's Restaurant, the last piece of property needed to build a medical mart on the northwest corner of St. Clair Avenue and Ontario Street.

 

http://www.cleveland.com/cuyahoga-county/index.ssf/2010/05/cuyahoga_county_commissioners_announce_finral_property_deal_for_proposed_med_mart.html

More on the CC plans (some interesting alternatives). 

I was worried about the disconnection of public Hall from the convention center (since I think it would be an asset for certain convention center events), but plans call for grand staircases leading to Public Hall as well as just making Mall C ball rooms and meeting rooms (thus not requiring any drastic raising of the surface). 

Now if it will end up with an exhibit hall large enough to be competitive, or space for future expansion if necessary (the mall C alternative would likely rule out chances of expanding over the tracks)....

 

Early medical mart and convention center plans preserve lake view

By Steven Litt, The Plain Dealer

May 20, 2010, 11:00AM

 

The drawings are dry and abstract, the details skimpy. But architects working for MMPI Inc. of Chicago, developer of the proposed medical mart and new convention center in downtown Cleveland, are clearly thinking outside the rectangle. 

 

The designers have come up with an unexpected L-shaped configuration for the convention center, which has the highly desirable effect of preserving a century-old view of Lake Erie looking north from Lakeside Avenue.

 

http://blog.cleveland.com/architecture/2010/05/post.html

^This is really excellent news.  A very big early breakthrough.

The medical mart website has been beefed up.  It has much more of a sales pitch nature to it, rather than a someday, maybe project feel to it.

 

www.clevelandmedicalmart.com

 

One passage talked about the mall.  Anyone ever been to the Yerba Buena gardens in San Fran?

 

Re-engerize Mall

Cleveland Medical Mart and Convention Center provides an opportunity for the city of Cleveland to repurpose and reenergize its existing public space. A grand entrance to the Cleveland Medical Mart and Convention Center overlooking the Mall will create a warm welcome to medical professionals, convention attendees and visitors. The Mall, originally envisioned by Daniel Burnham, will be improved and expanded drawing more people to experience the beautiful park and lakefront views. This project gives the city the opportunity to emulate the Millennium Park in Chicago and Yerba Buena Gardens in San Francisco, which have been so transformative to those cities.