^This is really excellent news.  A very big early breakthrough.

 

The statement that the lake view is preserved appears to be a half truth.  The article describes the Convention center rising an "unspecified" amount above mall B.  They are meanwhile while touting that it won't rise more than a foot above ground level at Mall C.    I can see that the lake view would be preserved from mall C, but not from mall A and potentially not from mall B.

 

Pros on the other hand include a 25 foot tall glass wall that faces north coast harbor (could be taller in my humble opinion).

 

Anyone else?

^How many people go to Mall A now for the lake views?

^Well true in regards to Mall A, but Mall B was going to be elevated no matter what, so I took that as a given.  And I think the lake views from Mall B improve from it being elevated, no [EDIT- at least the northern half of it]?  The big threat, IMHO, was the elevation of Mall C which would have turned Lakeside into a canyon and potentially blocked views even from Mall B- I'm just relieved that this threat seems greatly diminished.

 

I think the height of the glass wall facing the lake is directly tied to the height of Mall C (the floor is more or less fixed), so I don't think we could get more than 25 feet without creating that Lakeside canyon.

The renderings are up on the cleveland.com story.  Is it just me or has this project gotten larger?  The one rendering has the convention center at 860,000 sf, but the old specs had it being 300,000 sf of convention space + 160,000 sf of meeting rooms/ballrooms.  Where's the other 400,000 sf coming from?  I know it's just a massing, but that seems like a significant increase.  Am I missing something?

^Excellent question.  As described, this seems like a net addition of the area underneath the MedMart.  Not sure how that's in the budget, but no complaint from me.

I dont know about addition.  It looks like the Mall C part takes away quite a bit as well (it looks to me that the addtion under MM is smaller than the current CC area that will become meeting rooms and ball room). 

 

On the diagram showing 860,000 sq ft, it looks like it covers the entire area, but when you look at the actual exhibit space it only takes up a small portion of that (looks like less than half)

 

Also, I wonder what kind of challenges it poses having the meeting rooms and ball room so seperate from the actual MM?

I dont know about addition.  It looks like the Mall C part takes away quite a bit as well (it looks to me that the addtion under MM is smaller than the current CC area that will become meeting rooms and ball room). 

 

On the diagram showing 860,000 sq ft, it looks like it covers the entire area, but when you look at the actual exhibit space it only takes up a small portion of that (looks like less than half)

 

Also, I wonder what kind of challenges it poses having the meeting rooms and ball room so seperate from the actual MM?

 

True about the exhibit area and ball room, but the rest of the area shown under Mall C is "meeting rooms", so it's still usable convention center space- shouldn't it be counted towards the total sf.?  Maybe this was the meeting room space that was going to be in Public Auditorium?

Obviously too early too tell, but the original diagrams had the meeting rooms on a separate level along the east and west sides of the main exhibit hall.  Not sure how that changes with this new design.

 

EDIT: On second look, it appears that the bulk of the meeting rooms on the east side are actually under Public Hall, so those are likely scraped completely.

 

On the diagram showing 860,000 sq ft, it looks like it covers the entire area, but when you look at the actual exhibit space it only takes up a small portion of that (looks like less than half)

 

You might be right.  I'm wondering if the sf figures are just full build-out numbers.  It has the MM building being 340,000 sf, which is more than twice the original figure, but the massing has the "building" going from edge to edge on the property.  Must just be the maximum square footage.

Well there is usually a number that represents the open, exhibit space, and I think that is what the 300,000+ number was (which is small by industry standards).  But the number really jumps when including the meeting rooms, ball rooms etc.

 

Meeting rooms typically dont contribute to exhibit space numbers. 

^Gotcha.  So looks like it's just a relocation of the meeting rooms.

"Also yet to be determined is the city’s future plans for Public Auditorium. The county will provide a schedule to the city stating when MMPI’s architects need to know precisely how the new convention center will be attached to Public Auditorium."

 

So is Public Auditorium still going to be attached or not?

 

Mods: Do I need to attach a link to a quote this small?

 

 

Where will the loading docks go?

Those are underground along the western edge I believe.

Where will the loading docks go?

 

If you look in the rendering on cleveland.com, they are there on the inner edge of the "L" shape of the convention center.

Thanks

For those who were wondering if the meeting rooms are too far from the med mart. I just pulled up Gmaps and from the furthest corner of the med mart (St.clair and Ontario) to the middle of Mall C on lakeside where it looks like the Meeting rooms where be is a like less than a quarter mile, 440 yards or under 500 paces for an adult. That' nothing, it's less than a 5 minute walk. We just need to keep in mind this still will be a relatively small Convention center

 

For comparison it's .27 miles to walk across the IX center diagonally from one corner to the other....

For those who were wondering if the meeting rooms are too far from the med mart. I just pulled up Gmaps and from the furthest corner of the med mart (St.clair and Ontario) to the middle of Mall C on lakeside where it looks like the Meeting rooms where be is a like less than a quarter mile, 440 yards or under 500 paces for an adult. That' nothing, it's less than a 5 minute walk. We just need to keep in mind this still will be a relatively small Convention center

 

For comparison it's .27 miles to walk across the IX center diagonally from one corner to the other....

So the two (new CC and IX Center) are about the same size?  440 yards = 1,320 feet = .25 miles

That's not too big, seems about right..

^Depends what you mean by size; the distance referenced for the new convention center crosses the open part of the "L" shape, so assuming those measurements are about right, the floor area is definitely smaller than the IX center.

 

One other minor observation: the new exhibit space configuration means the end of west mall drive because of the need to extend the elevated ceiling height west into the Med Mart footprint.  Not a bit loss- might even allow more room for creativity on the Mall B surface.

 

Also, a kind of boring update on the Nashville mart: http://www.bizjournals.com/nashville/stories/2010/05/17/daily35.html

There's a new floorplan on Clevelandmedicalmart.com that wasn't there yesterday showing the "L".

 

http://www.clevelandmedicalmart.com/assets/gallery18.jpg

Funny Nashville always seems to make an announcement when we do (they dont want to look like they are not progressing.... more....)

 

Yeah the new CC would only have about a third of the open/exhibit space as the IX, but the IX is huge.

 

I just hope it will be big enough to take back some shows that are currently at the IX center. 

 

 

 

There's a new floorplan on Clevelandmedicalmart.com that wasn't there yesterday showing the "L".

 

http://www.clevelandmedicalmart.com/assets/gallery18.jpg

 

Actually, i don't think that is the "L" plan- that shows the exhibit space stretching east-west still and meeting rooms still under Public Auditorium (among other places).

 

 

I just hope it will be big enough to take back some shows that are currently at the IX center.

 

 

 

 

I'm interested to hear about the labor deal at this new convention center.  Would the county own the negotiations with the unions, or would the city?  And how would their jurisdictions divide between the county-owned CC and city-owned Public Hall?

 

One of the biggest factors in shows going to the IX will be it's use of non-union labor.  Let's hope the city and county can convince the unions to be competitive to bring the work to them.

One of the biggest factors in shows going to the IX will be it's use of non-union labor.  Let's hope the city and county can convince the unions to be competitive to bring the work to them.

i've been to enough union-run convention centers to experience the demand that nothing, not even installing an extension cord can be done by yourself, then they charge an arm and leg to do it.

Cleveland Planning Commission approves deal to sell convention center

By Laura Johnston, The Plain Dealer

May 21, 2010, 1:49PM

 

CLEVELAND, Ohio -- The Cleveland Planning Commission on Friday signed off on selling the city's downtown convention center for Cuyahoga County's new medical mart complex.

 

Commission members also embraced the proposed layout for a new L-shaped convention center beneath malls B and C that connects with an above-ground mart at the northeast corner of St. Clair Avenue and Ontario Street.

 

But some members pushed for a redesign of the park-like surfaces of the malls. Member Norm Krumholz referenced Chicago's Millennium Park, 25 acres of sculptures, gardens and gathering spaces that opened in 2004 and has drawn masses of tourists and locals ever since.

 

"Right now the open space is virtually dead," Krumholz said. "It'd be nice if you could draw some crowds."

 

http://www.cleveland.com/cuyahoga-county/index.ssf/2010/05/cleveland_planning_commission_approves_deal_to_sell_convention_center.html

One of the biggest factors in shows going to the IX will be it's use of non-union labor. Let's hope the city and county can convince the unions to be competitive to bring the work to them.

 

 

Neither.  MMPI will own the convention center, all labor will be hired/managed by MMPI

One of the biggest factors in shows going to the IX will be it's use of non-union labor.  Let's hope the city and county can convince the unions to be competitive to bring the work to them.

 

Neither.  MMPI will own the convention center, all labor will be hired/managed by MMPI

[\quote]

 

Sorry Punch--but I don't believe for one second that the unions already installed at Public Hall and the Convention Center will be cut off from their gravy train.  Do you really believe MMPI has the power to bring in non-union labor--or convince the already in-house unions to negotiate in good faith?

Give it rest. Are we negotiating union contracts now? Gravy Train?? I don't believe half of us could could make a day as a laborer let alone skilled tradesman. Apprenticeships are 4 years of intensive training that would challenge most of us physically and mentally.

Give it rest. Are we negotiating union contracts now? Gravy Train?? I don't believe half of us could could make a day as a laborer let alone skilled tradesman. Apprenticeships are 4 years of intensive training that would challenge most of us physically and mentally.

 

You've obviously never worked with the labor force at either the IX or the Convention Center as I have.

 

I dare you to go ask the Teamsters at the Convention Center how much training they've had. ;)

Get over it.  Union membership has declined steadily for decades, even here.  In other news, real wages have followed a similar downward progression and low wage employees now have to pay for their own health care and pensions.  Employers have gotten everything they've asked for in this regard, yet the flood of non-union jobs they promised has not followed.

Let's keep this thread on topic, folks.

The 'L' shape makes sense to me.  If they ever needed to expand, and the county eventually abandoned the administration building at the corner of Ontario and Lakeside, they could expand on that parcel creating a huge rectangle of show space.  On the downside, a nondescript four story building across from both the Justice Center and Marriott is underwhelming.  Too bad they couldn't do something atop the medmart such as a hotel or offices.  That might even provide some revenue?

The 'L' shape makes sense to me.  If they ever needed to expand, and the county eventually abandoned the administration building at the corner of Ontario and Lakeside, they could expand on that parcel creating a huge rectangle of show space.  On the downside, a nondescript four story building across from both the Justice Center and Marriott is underwhelming.  Too bad they couldn't do something atop the medmart such as a hotel or offices.

 

Underwhelming or what the market can bear?  When the County building is raised, that is where the expansion can take place, IIRC.  Willard Park is also a place for a hotel as the Hilton was to be built there.  I think they built the foundation and it's been covered.

The 'L' shape makes sense to me.  If they ever needed to expand, and the county eventually abandoned the administration building at the corner of Ontario and Lakeside, they could expand on that parcel creating a huge rectangle of show space.  On the downside, a nondescript four story building across from both the Justice Center and Marriott is underwhelming.  Too bad they couldn't do something atop the medmart such as a hotel or offices.  That might even provide some revenue?

 

Yeah that would be about the only option for expansion with this plan, which I think should be considered in the current plan (area for future expansion).  I guess when/if they someday tear down the Admin. buildings for a convention hotel, they can do another section to the convention center as part of that project, if the underground loading docks etc don't pose too much of a problem.

 

Also,I hope that they will be able to incorporate more use for Public Hall for some of the events that would take place.  We are still not clear about the connection/disconnection and how that will play out.

 

As for the actual MM building, we only have some rough off the shelf sketches of....  But likely with the limited amount of funding to do many things, it wont be too impressive, but we shall see.

 

 

When the County building is raised....

 

 

Or even when it is razed.

 

You people kill me sometimes...

When the County building is raised....

 

 

Or even when it is razed.

 

You people kill me sometimes...

 

When the County building is raised....

 

 

Or even when it is razed.

 

You people kill me sometimes...

 

Maybe they are going to raise the building to be at the same level as the mall?

 

The other one that bugs me is "loosing".

Looks like the the sale of the CC to the County goes to City Council on Monday:

http://blog.cleveland.com/metro/2010/06/cleveland_city_council_set_to.html

 

I understand that council wants to know more about what will be built on the Malls- we all do- but it's not a reason to slow this thing down.  Worst case would be replicating what's there now, which would be boring and lame, but wouldn't be any worse than what we have now.

 

I didn't see this question coming:

 

•Why are there no plans to connect the city's Willard Park Garage, which nearly fills each weekday, with the county-owned Huntington Garage?

 

What's the concern here?  Are they looking for the new CC to give them climate controlled access b/w City hall and the County garage in case their own is full?  Ugh.  Maybe I'm missing something.  I'm OK letting MMP/County worry about parking for Med Mart and the CC.

Cleveland convention center and medical merchandise mart win tax exemptions

 

 

By JAY MILLER

11:40 am, June 4, 2010

 

 

The planned convention center and medical merchandise mart in Cleveland quietly won property and sales tax exemptions in a bill passed by the General Assembly early this morning.

 

Senate Bill 181 originally was introduced to speed the reclamation of abandoned mines. It was used by legislators to rush through a variety of last-minute measures, including the medical mart property tax exemptions, as the General Assembly engaged in an end-of-session marathon that lasted past 3 a.m. today.

 

http://www.crainscleveland.com/article/20100604/FREE/100609890

Strap, a developer friend in Chicago said clubs and entertainment venues are nice, but all the profit is in parking.

^That makes sense.  Maybe the question wasn't really stated correctly by the article.

Medical Mart On Track For Fall Groundbreaking

Tuesday, June 8, 2010

 

 

Cleveland City Council last night approved a deal to sell the city-owned downtown convention center to Cuyahoga County for use as part of the medical mart project. Ideastream’s Bill Rice reports the deal puts the final piece in place for an October groundbreaking.

 

The county will pay Cleveland 20 million dollars for the convention center.  Cleveland will retain the adjacent Public Hall and spend some of the 20 million to bring its heating and electrical systems up to code and perform other renovations. 

 

While the properties for the project are in place, there’s still more design work to be done.  City and county leaders say they’re encouraged that private developer MMPI is working to maximize views of the lake, and foresee eventually connecting the medical mart with the lakefront. 

 

http://www.wcpn.org/WCPN/news/31027

Who knew?

 

http://www.cardcow.com/246415/merchandise-mart-cleveland-inc-ohio/

Who knew?

 

 

although a shift from their renderings, i'm glad MMPI went with the classic retro look.

Who knew?

 

http://www.cardcow.com/246415/merchandise-mart-cleveland-inc-ohio/

I think you're being funny.  But you know that is an old furniture supply store that used to be downtown.

Who knew?

 

http://www.cardcow.com/246415/merchandise-mart-cleveland-inc-ohio/

I think you're being funny. But you know that is an old furniture supply store that used to be downtown.

 

Postcard says it was at 420 Prospect Ave., now the parking lot across from E.4th.

 

I think you're being funny.

 

MTS--of course I am!

I think you're being funny.

 

MTS--of course I am!

 

There wasn't an emoticon, so I wasn't 100% sure.  :|

keep an eye on this folks. This has been brewing for a while and now the mayor has latched on..

 

http://blog.cleveland.com/metro/2010/06/cleveland_mayor_frank_jackson_15.html

 

 

 

I'm glad that article mentioned the intermodal station.  That's the part I'll be keeping an eye on most.

What are we thinking, will the city be a compliment to the work started by the county / MMPI and Parkworks, or will it turn into a turf war?

 

I am hoping it will be collaborative, and this commission will be made up of local corporations, who may wind up sponsoring parts of the parks like what happened in Millenium Park.