this appears to be shaping up to be a massive collaborative effort from what i've heard.

What are we thinking, will the city be a compliment to the work started by the county / MMPI and Parkworks, or will it turn into a turf war?

 

I am hoping it will be collaborative, and this commission will be made up of local corporations, who may wind up sponsoring parts of the parks like what happened in Millenium Park.

 

That's what I was wondering.  Its great that the city is acknowledging some of the opportunities here (I had worried that it would pass them by), but some of this would have ideally been in progress since the plans are already being drawn for the mall (which funding and future plans Id think would be a determinant to what the designers are considering).

 

I'm encouraged that the idea of extending the sales tax had finally been brought up, since 16 million isn't going to go far for the mall, but corporate sponsorship would be even better (due to the more pressing needs issue). 

Definitely collaboration is in order, and that requires people being on the same page.  This is certainly a once in a lifetime opportunity.     

 

 

What are we thinking, will the city be a compliment to the work started by the county / MMPI and Parkworks, or will it turn into a turf war?

 

Don't worry, it is not a turf war at all.

Glad and relieved to hear it. 

Oh I was going to ask you guys what you thought of this statement in the article from Joe Roman:

 

".......said the business community recognizes the importance of getting the new plan right. He pointed to mistakes made in building Gateway, which he said did not adequately link the arena and baseball stadium to the rest of downtown."

 

I thought gateway was one of the best examples of an urban ballpark/arena in how it does connect to downtown or integrated into its surroundings (without tearing down the middle of downtown to build it)

 

Am I missing something here? 

I take it as the two parking garages.  No retail is in the lower level to connect the stadiums to Prospect avenue retail/restaurants.  That area still hasn't meshed.

 

If not, then we're both over reacting.

Personally, I like Tony Coyne.  He is just the right amount of 'tough' for this job IMHO.

Am I missing something here?

 

No, I noticed the same thing and thought it was a strange comment.

 

All this coordinating is exciting.  Not just for the design work, but for the funding and phasing of all too.

Architects envision Cleveland's medical mart as four stories wrapped in glass

 

CHICAGO, Illinois --

New designs for Cleveland's proposed medical mart call for four stories wrapped in glass, centered on an atrium reminiscent of downtown's traditional arcades.

"It's indoor space that can be used year-round," Rafael Vinoly, of Seattle-based LMN Architects, said at a presentation today in Chicago.

 

Read more at: http://blog.cleveland.com/metro/2010/06/architects_envision_clevelands.html

"So far, MMPI has tentative commitments from 24 companies to showcase large medical furniture and equipment, said MMPI Vice President Mark Falanga."

 

 

well... good thing everyone was all worked up about the 2 and 3 tennants lined up at memphis and new york.

Architects envision Cleveland's medical mart as four stories wrapped in glass

 

CHICAGO, Illinois --

New designs for Cleveland's proposed medical mart call for four stories wrapped in glass, centered on an atrium reminiscent of downtown's traditional arcades.

"It's indoor space that can be used year-round," Rafael Vinoly, of Seattle-based LMN Architects, said at a presentation today in Chicago.

 

Read more at: http://blog.cleveland.com/metro/2010/06/architects_envision_clevelands.html

Wow, so the Plain Dealer is now putting out articles to say that the architects have displayed designs, but doesn't bother to show said photos. Journalism at its finest.  :roll:

"So far, MMPI has tentative commitments from 24 companies to showcase large medical furniture and equipment, said MMPI Vice President Mark Falanga."

 

 

well... good thing everyone was all worked up about the 2 and 3 tennants lined up at memphis and new york.

 

I hate to say this but "tentative" is a long way for "signed and leased", but I bet those same tenants in Memphis and NYC are in CLE.  MMPI is ruthless when it comes to leasing.

 

4 Stories?  That's it?  Why not build for expansion?

^No stopping expansion north.  4 stories fits in with the original group plan as well

all tennnants at each proposed MM at this point are "tenative" i just find it entertaining that people freaked out when Memphis or New York would announce that they had 2 or 3.  I would say it is safe to say at this point with land, financing, and 24 potential tennants, design and construction documents being created we are pretty far out in front.

^No stopping expansion north.  4 stories fits in with the original group plan as well

 

Thanks for the reminder!  I forgot the County Admin Building will come down but where does the hotel go?  Or will any expansion be MM/CC space with hotel atop?  If so, it would have to be higher than 4 stories.

 

all tennnants at each proposed MM at this point are "tenative" i just find it entertaining that people freaked out when Memphis or New York would announce that they had 2 or 3.  I would say it is safe to say at this point with land, financing, and 24 potential tennants, design and construction documents being created we are pretty far out in front.

 

Well I dont know know if the MEM and NYC are tentative.  Remember that information wasn't in their papers.  It was just announced with no details.

 

I think we're in a good position.

Have we known for a while that Rafael Vinoly was going to design the MM?  Between this and the Museum of Art, his work will leave a lasting mark in the city.

Have we known for a while that Rafael Vinoly was going to design the MM?  Between this and the Museum of Art, his work will leave a lasting mark in the city.

 

It is his nephew. Seriously, they have the same name.

"So far, MMPI has tentative commitments from 24 companies to showcase large medical furniture and equipment, said MMPI Vice President Mark Falanga."

 

 

well... good thing everyone was all worked up about the 2 and 3 tennants lined up at memphis and new york.

 

I hate to say this but "tentative" is a long way for "signed and leased", but I bet those same tenants in Memphis and NYC are in CLE.  MMPI is ruthless when it comes to leasing.

 

4 Stories?  That's it?  Why not build for expansion?

 

By the way its Nashville, not Memphis......

"CHIGAGO — MMPI Inc., the developer of the planned Cleveland convention center and medical merchandise mart, said it has signed letters of intent for 12 conventions and 24 medical mart showroom spaces for the new complex."

 

http://www.crainscleveland.com/article/20100615/FREE/100619902

Was at neocon today at The Merch Mart.  Seemed like there was a lot more medical focused vendors as well as all the major contract furniture companies expanding their medical furniture offerings.  I could really picture how this could be a great thing for Cleveland.  Steelcase, Allsteel...etc could all have space there.

How is it possible that we are this far down the road with no public renderings?

There were tons of conceptual renderings done previously.  LMN I believe was selected in March. So it has only been a few months... sounds like we'll be seeing something shortly.

Developers of Cleveland's medical mart explain why they think the concept will work

Published: Wednesday, June 16, 2010, 5:00 AM   

Laura Johnston, The Plain Dealer

 

CHICAGO, Illinois -- The concept is untested: Persuade dozens of established health-care companies to build showrooms for their hospital beds, MRI machines and ventilators.

 

Then, lure medical trade shows to adjoining convention center space, where smaller companies can erect temporary exhibits, and provide cutting-edge meeting space for seminars and continuing education.

 

Chicago developer MMPI proposes to do all of the above in Cleveland, and on Tuesday company officials offered their most detailed explanation to date as to why they think the nation needs a medical mart.

 

http://blog.cleveland.com/metro/2010/06/developers_of_clevelands_medic.html

From Crain's Cleveland Business

 

Positively Cleveland urges members to help protect the group's share of bed tax dollars

 

Cuyahoga County commissioners expect to decide in the next few weeks whether to divert part of the county's bed tax from Positively Cleveland, the regional convention and visitors bureau, to help pay for the operation of the planned convention center and medical merchandise mart.

 

Positively Cleveland has e-mailed its members a draft of a letter and is asking its members — hotel operators and others in the hospitality industry — to send letters to the Cuyahoga County commissioners urging them to protect the bureau's share of the bed tax. The bed tax is a 4.5% tax on money spent on hotel rooms in the county, and it generates $11 million a year. The city of Cleveland also levies a 3% bed tax.

 

Positively Cleveland ends up with less than half of the $11 million, but the tax accounts for more than 80% of the nonprofit's $5.2 million annual budget.

 

...the county might need the bed-tax money to cover its obligation to Chicago-based MMPI Inc., the operator of the tradeshow complex. Under the development agreement signed last April, the county agreed to pay MMPI a supplemental fee of about $6 million a year for the marketing and management of the facility.

 

 

more at -> http://crainscleveland.com/article/20100616/FREE/100619882

What do you think? Should some money be diverted to subsidize MM/CC operations? Of course, if the MM/CC does well, then more rooms would be occupied in the city, thus more revenue brought in, thus more tax collected and thus CCVB's share would be larger, so some amount of the funds diverted would be offset by increased hotel activity.

What in the world does Positively Cleveland actually accomplish with all that money?  How many "employees" do they have?  Why do people like Joe Roman make over a quarter million dollars a year?

What in the world does Positively Cleveland actually accomplish with all that money? How many "employees" do they have? Why do people like Joe Roman make over a quarter million dollars a year?

 

I tend to agree.  Another way of putting it... what changes would PC be willing to make in order to get/keep this money?  Right now we're getting our PR from Betty White.  I don't think PC has done a good job of responding to attacks, and I haven't been thrilled with their promotional concepts either.  When "Cleveland+" is all you've got, it's time to try harder.

What in the world does Positively Cleveland actually accomplish with all that money?  How many "employees" do they have?  Why do people like Joe Roman make over a quarter million dollars a year?

 

I tend to agree.  Another way of putting it... what changes would PC be willing to make in order to get/keep this money?  Right now we're getting our PR from Betty White.  I don't think PC has done a good job of responding to attacks, and I haven't been thrilled with their promotional concepts either.  When "Cleveland+" is all you've got, it's time to try harder.

 

I've been preaching that for years!

That thing you do, where you call Charles Barkley and read him the riot act, that's more the kind of thing I'm looking for in a CVB.  How many Cleveland+ banners does it take to counteract one flippant remark on national TV?  More banners than we can afford, that's how many.  Unless our CVB plans to do what must be done, I'd prefer this money go toward the MM/CC.  At least that's a tangible asset.

People can form their own opinions on the way PC goes about performing this service.  But I think the root of this service is extremely important.  MMPI will market the CC for MM shows.  That is about it.  PC at its root function is in charge of attracting shows of all kinds, and promoting the city and enticing visitors from all over to promote tourism.  An average of 14 million toursits come here each year, spending roughly $6b.  I think that is an extremely important function to continue, because it is a market that MMPI won't be too interested in.  They just want to get the most medical shows they can get. That's it.  But like I said, if people don't agree with the way PC goes about their business, people are entitled to that opinion.  But lets not confuse that with the need for the root function.

That thing you do, where you call Charles Barkley and read him the riot act, that's more the kind of thing I'm looking for in a CVB.  How many Cleveland+ banners does it take to counteract one flippant remark on national TV?  More banners than we can afford, that's how many.  Unless our CVB plans to do what must be done, I'd prefer this money go toward the MM/CC.  At least that's a tangible asset.

 

Agreed and MMPI has a communictions, Media relations, (programmed) Publicy and Events group that can change the Clevelands landscape as a place to have events/conference/seminars which will be beneficial to the regions overall travel & convention businesses.

 

Knowing MMPI is running the MM/CC.  I wouldnt be surprised if airlines and hotels are sniffing around.  We've got a hub that has room to grow, thats a plus.  We've got great amenities downtown with more to come.  We've got two world class events coming up.

 

More needs to be done now.  There should be hotels going up or hotel conversion taking place NOW.  What are those folks doing?  Do they earn their paychecks?

Fully agree that the function is important and the effort must continue.  I'm just thinking of all the unemployed marketing majors in this area who deserve a shot.  If the bed tax is in flux right now, performance and change are fair issues to raise.

^very fair.  I guess my point is let's not confuse how we may or may not feel about the job that PC is doing, with the very important role of having a CVB.  Because MMPI is not going to perform that function, and I think removing money from the CVB is going down a slippery slope. 

McCleveland...I curious where that 14 million tourists a year number comes from.  Does that include, for example, a couple from Richfield with tickets to a Broadway show at Playhouse Square?

That thing you do, where you call Charles Barkley and read him the riot act, that's more the kind of thing I'm looking for in a CVB. How many Cleveland+ banners does it take to counteract one flippant remark on national TV? More banners than we can afford, that's how many. Unless our CVB plans to do what must be done, I'd prefer this money go toward the MM/CC. At least that's a tangible asset.

 

Agreed and MMPI has a communictions, Media relations, (programmed) Publicy and Events group that can change the Clevelands landscape as a place to have events/conference/seminars which will be beneficial to the regions overall travel & convention businesses.

 

Knowing MMPI is running the MM/CC. I wouldnt be surprised if airlines and hotels are sniffing around. We've got a hub that has room to grow, thats a plus. We've got great amenities downtown with more to come. We've got two world class events coming up.

 

More needs to be done now. There should be hotels going up or hotel conversion taking place NOW. What are those folks doing? Do they earn their paychecks?

 

Exactly..., I'm still surprised that there isn't a new convention center hotel being built in connection with MM.  Plus the casino should add to occupancy especially on the weekends. 

^^Great question, and I don't know the answer, that is just the number I've seen used on a consistent basis.

Positively Cleveland says the 14 million are people who live at least 60 miles away:

 

http://www.positivelycleveland.com/contact_us/about_us (under "Cleveland Plus Tourism")

Positively Cleveland says the 14 million are people who live at least 60 miles away:

 

And it's the whole county, not just Cleveland.  So someone coming from Pittsburgh to visit family in Solon that never set foot in Cleveland would be counted in that 14 million. 

Though I would have to imagine there is an identifiable way of counting them... 

is it the 7 county region?  If over a million people visit Cuyahoga county in a month, wouldn't that be more that the population of the county?

^population of Cuyahoga County is just shy of 1.4 million

is it the 7 county region? If over a million people visit Cuyahoga county in a month, wouldn't that be more that the population of the county?

 

I don't know if it's the entire 7 County region but I'm sure it's more than just Cuyahoga County.  I do remember an article in a Conde Nast publication back in 2000 (when CLE was "hip") that stated some pretty surprising numbers as far as tourism was concerned.  Apparently, the CLE region is a popular destination - much more than I would have suspected.

The Positively Cleveland website says, "We aggressively market and advertise to surrounding markets such as Detroit, Columbus and Pittsburgh and fly in markets such as Baltimore and Nashville, helping to drive nearly 14 million visitors to Cuyahoga County each year."

 

The Positively Cleveland website says, "We aggressively market and advertise to surrounding markets such as Detroit, Columbus and Pittsburgh and fly in markets such as Baltimore and Nashville, helping to drive nearly 14 million visitors to Cuyahoga County each year."

 

 

Thats the problem they've limited their reach!

 

There needs to be an international component and big city metro campaigns.

The Positively Cleveland website says, "We aggressively market and advertise to surrounding markets such as Detroit, Columbus and Pittsburgh and fly in markets such as Baltimore and Nashville, helping to drive nearly 14 million visitors to Cuyahoga County each year."

 

 

Thats the problem they've limited their reach!

 

There needs to be an international component and big city metro campaigns.

 

I'm all for that, but first let's tweak the message a bit. 

 

Come to Cleveland!  We've got... Youngstown!

In terms of tourism numbers, if you define the Cleveland market as the Cleveland DMA, then you have both Cedar Point and the Pro Football Hall of Fame in this market, too. That's going to significantly up the total.

I believe jborger pointed out the 14m number encompasses only cuyahoga county.

14 million seems like a high number, 1.16 million a month.  Does that include people traveling for business reasons?

14 million seems like a high number, 1.16 million a month.  Does that include people traveling for business reasons?

 

It would have to.

 

It's not that high of a number.  20 Million a year is a target number.  NYC, CHI SFO, LA, ATL, DAL, ORL, MIA reach that number year over year.

Long story short, you can't trust a vistation number that comes from an agency tasked with creating visitation.  We have no idea what methods were used to arrive at 14 million.  They might as well have said 1.21 jigga-zillion.