August 6, 201014 yr Those are some big sea gulls on page 27! Ok just so I have this straight in my head, there appears to be a large ramp in the entry of the actual MM that leads down to the exhibition level (page 9). Is that what everybody else takes that to be?
August 6, 201014 yr I very much prefer the unified idea. The split idea doesn't even leave much of a view open. And can they please not plant stupid tall grasses everywhere so that people can at least use the lawn. :)
August 6, 201014 yr http://www.cleveland.com/cuyahoga-county/index.ssf/2010/08/cleveland_planning_commission_postpones_vote_on_med_mart_designs.html Looks like the planning commision liked the plans on the CC but postponed the vote to get more detail on the actuall MM portion.
August 8, 201014 yr O.K. for those of you(and me) who could spend way to much time going over minute details of the med mart. Here are 3 pdf's that I don't think have been posted yet. Enjoy. spaces - http://blog.cleveland.com/metro/2009/04/spaces.pdf functions - http://blog.cleveland.com/metro/2009/04/functions.pdf systems - http://blog.cleveland.com/metro/2009/04/Systems.pdf
August 8, 201014 yr FYI, the article below has a hyperlink to the full design summary of the convention center in PDF form. Just click on "conceptual designs" in the article. Has a few nice diagrams. http://www.cleveland.com/cuyahoga-county/index.ssf/2010/08/cleveland_planning_commission_postpones_vote_on_med_mart_designs.html Looks like the planning commision liked the plans on the CC but postponed the vote to get more detail on the actuall MM portion.
August 10, 201014 yr As I mentioned earlier, Im a bit concerned about the deminished exhibition space on the main floor with the elimination of the spaces below mall c, and instead the overabundance of meeting rooms (something that Public Hall would have incorporated much of. But now (not mentioned in the PD article) for budget reasons they also cut the extentent of exhibit space that would have gone below the MM building. I just think this could really limit some of the functions and bringing some of the shows that are now at IX and other places back downtown (as well as being very small by industry standards). From the crains article: "Committee members were concerned that compromises made — in part to keep the project on budget — could make the trade show complex less competitive with other convention centers. The plan still includes the roughly 300,000 square feet of space upon which the city, the county and developer MMPI Inc. have agreed. However, the plan now lacks the full 270,000 square feet of prime exhibit space originally envisioned. Instead, it has 232,000 square feet of prime space, which is defined as having 30-foot ceiling heights and 90 feet between columns, as well as about 125,000 square feet of flexible space that can be used either to expand exhibition space or broken down into meeting rooms. Part of the reason for the loss of 38,000 square feet of the more desirable exhibition space, Mr. Reddington said, was to keep the project within budget." http://www.crainscleveland.com/article/20100806/FREE/100809883
August 10, 201014 yr It's OK. I still think the cable suspended ceiling from very early renderings with the cable piers poking out above ground was the most elegant solution. All sight lines preserved. I wonder why that was abandoned.
August 10, 201014 yr You're confusing two different issues. The suspended cables were not a solution to the entrance issue.
August 10, 201014 yr Tedolph, I think you're thinking of the very early design, when they thought they were going to dig up the current CC foundations and dig out the extra depth needed to have 30' ceilings. That was significantly more expensive, and it was decided (years ago) to keep the current foundation. This is what necessitates all the contortions to try to keep views of the lake and not make Mall B into a raised space cut off from street level.
August 10, 201014 yr I guess the question I have if whether it is possible within the current budget (or possible at all) to prep the space under the MM for future expansion (if there is a need and the $$ can be found due to the need). In other words build to Ontario and somehow monthball the area. I would imagine it would be almost impossible to extend the space to Ontario once the MM is built without disrupting things upstairs. Could they engineer such a monthball spaced and would it need little to no maintenance? Again I just do not know.
August 10, 201014 yr ^It would be possible to prep the space under the MM for expansion, but it would come at a significant cost that is not within the current budget.
August 19, 201014 yr new further renderings posted on the medical mart website of the LMN design http://www.clevelandmedicalmart.com/development/architecture/
August 19, 201014 yr One of my biggest questions is - a major problem with the current convention center are the loading docks, well the lack thereof. When you have limited loading docks, exhibitors and show producers have to pay the overtime that racks up from the trucks idling while waiting for their delivery/pickup. I believe the current total of loading docks is two - now, is it just me, or am I only seeing maybe ten at most*? Sure, it's better than what's there now but from what I understand, the ideal is in excess of twenty. *I'm not an engineer but I'm pretty sure the "sawtooth" area to the right of the blue boxes represents the loading dock area, and if this is similar to other schematics I've seen of other centers, each "notch" represents one loading dock.: clevelandskyscrapers.com Cleveland Skyscrapers on Instagram
August 19, 201014 yr ^I think you're looking at the wrong level. The loading docks should continue under the "blue boxes". It appears that there are closer to 20 loading docks.
August 19, 201014 yr While there are certainly deficiencies with the center for one reason or another (of course keeping within the budget is a major factor), square footage perhaps being one, I really think Cleveland is fortunate given the nature of the facility. That is the fact that the facility is underground. Unlike many other major American cities we will not have what is basically a huge box or warehouse with blank walls in the center of our downtown. Even many convention center where design was not an after thought (which are really rare) tend to be hulking structures which impede street life in the general area of the facility.
August 19, 201014 yr I agree, it is one of the major factors in why I have always supported this location.
August 19, 201014 yr http://www.clevelandmedicalmart.com/development/architecture/ Note that- Public Auditorium is still shown being used in the plans. "Event Planners" ---floorplans---meeting rooms.
August 19, 201014 yr ^danmc, those floorplans have not been updated to account for the "L" shaped exhibit space that extends below the MedMart building, and were created back when Public Auditorium was an option. They are a bit out of date, alas.
August 19, 201014 yr Hootenany & MayDay, thanks for the schematics and the informed discussion. That sort of discussion and data is what I've come to expect here at UO. Question: I'm having trouble orienting the schematics shown above. What street is at the right of the schematic that has the entrance to the loading docks? "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
August 19, 201014 yr ^ That is the existing driveway that begins at W. 6th Street and hugs the north side of the Huntington Park Garage. You can see it in this view.
August 19, 201014 yr ^ That is the existing driveway that begins at W. 6th Street and hugs the north side of the Huntington Park Garage. You can see it in this view. Nothing loaded at Bing -- apparently I need an update! But I know the location you speak of. To the right (north) is where the intermodal transportation center may go. EDIT: as a part of the intermodal transportation and its pedestrian linkages to North Coast Harbor, I remain hopeful that safe, attractive, round-the-clock, public-access pedestrian routes will be available through the convention center from north to south. There is something very attractive to me about me being an out-of-town visitor attending a trade-show sponsored event at the rock hall in the middle of winter, and walking back to my hotel on/near St. Clair or Superior without having to go outside. Or, there's a advanced manufacturing or technology-related event at the Science Center and I can head back into downtown through this facility. Or I'm leaving from my hotel room late in the evening and catching a train back home or vice-versa. "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
August 19, 201014 yr There is something very attractive to me about me being an out-of-town visitor attending a trade-show sponsored event at the rock hall in the middle of winter, and walking back to my hotel on/near St. Clair or Superior without having to go outside. Or, there's a advanced manufacturing or technology-related event at the Science Center and I can head back into downtown through this facility. Or I'm leaving from my hotel room late in the evening and catching a train back home or vice-versa. I totally agree. It was unpopular when discussed a year or two ago, but I would support a system of underground connections that linked the MM/CC all the way to Tower City if it were affordable (which it probably is not). I wouldn't necessarily use them, but I imagine they would make the city a whole lot more appealing for winter conventions.
August 19, 201014 yr Even if it didn't go all the way under Public Square, that's fine. But there's going to be a revamped subterranean space built downtown. It'd be a shame if it wasn't publicly accessible for access between the center of downtown (perhaps as far south as the Arcade) and the lakefront attractions. "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
August 19, 201014 yr I'm not in favor of any underground connections. This is a big city and "impressions" on the street is what marketers are looking for and area's around convetion centers are key locations. Build more things at NCH and between NCH and the revamped center and people probably wont complain about the walk.
August 19, 201014 yr huh.. well with the intermodal transit hub comes covered access from the convention center to the lakefront. a good situation IMO.. that crummy bridge (though by the free stamp) is stampeded by tourists daily. that whole promenade could use a serious tune-up.
August 19, 201014 yr I'm going to take this over to the Mall design thread since Coyne's task force is looking at ways of improving pedestrian flows there..... http://www.urbanohio.com/forum2/index.php/topic,22937.msg507113.html#msg507113 "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
August 20, 201014 yr This is also borderline "Mall Renovation" thread, but great news to finally hear about this momentum. Cleveland Planning Commission grants convention center preliminary approval Published: Friday, August 20, 2010, 1:11 PM Laura Johnston, The Plain Dealer CLEVELAND, Ohio -- The Cleveland Planning Commission today conditionally approved the design for a downtown convention center, giving the go-ahead to slope the mall between Public Auditorium and a to-be-designed medical mart. Members have not yet signed off on the mart building, the other half of Cuyahoga County's $425 million, taxpayer-financed project, because they haven't seen detailed drawings. They also want more information on the square footage and layout of the underground convention center and more frequent meetings with the county's developer, Chicago-based MMPI. But their approval allows the county to move forward with its plans, including breaking ground as soon as October. http://www.cleveland.com/cuyahoga-county/index.ssf/2010/08/cleveland_planning_commission_grants_convention_center_preliminary_approval.html
September 1, 201014 yr MMPI posted a construction manager position on Careerboard on 8/30. I will link when I am on a PC. Anybody interested. That's a good sign at least.
September 1, 201014 yr MMPI Inc. sees interest grow in Cleveland medical mart and convention center project 2:07 pm, September 1, 2010 It appears interest is growing in the planned medical merchandise mart and convention center in Cleveland. MMPI Inc., the Chicago-based developer behind the project, said it has received its 32nd signed letter of intent from a tenant for permanent showroom space in the medical mart. MMPI said it also has 16 letters of intent for conferences, conventions and trade shows at the complex. Both numbers represent significant increases in letters of intent from a June announcement highlighting 24 permanent showrooms and 12 conferences, conventions and trade shows. READ MORE AT: http://www.crainscleveland.com/article/20100901/FREE/100909983 "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
September 4, 201014 yr I can't say I'm impressed with the new updated design. Anyone else? http://www.clevelandmedicalmart.com/development/architecture/
September 4, 201014 yr I did not observe anything new. Am I missing something? Could you please direct me.
September 5, 201014 yr Does not appear to be anything new. Keep in mind that the MM is just a massing, I believe..... although it appears the footprint has expanded a bit since the first renderings for the Mall CC/MM were put on that site. But the detailed design of that building has not been released... and may not even be finalized yet. I remember MMPI saying a year or so ago that it would be a cutting edge design. The rest of the renderings on the website were released a few weeks ago and can be found upthread.
September 8, 201014 yr I know they're still early designs, but I hope the giant "CLEVELAND CONVENTION CENTER" sign on the south side of Lakeside gets changed... And picture #9 with what looks to be a four story wall of glass... Which direction is that facing? At first I thought it was the northern most point, but looking outside, there's buildings and some sort of grassy area... Is that facing west towards the county complex between Lakeside and St. Clair? If so, I didn't realize how much glass windows there would be on the sides.
September 8, 201014 yr ^That's a view southeast from the med mart (not from the convention center) towards St. Clair and Mall A.
September 8, 201014 yr I also believe that particular rendering is severely outdated. I think that was released during a time when they contemplated the main entrance to the CC being though the lobby of the MM, no?
September 8, 201014 yr ^That particular rendering may be outdated, but I believe there will still be a major entry to the CC through the MM lobby. One of the benefits of adding the Lakeside entry is to allow for two simultaneous events.
September 8, 201014 yr MMPI president Kennedy still behind Cleveland med mart and convention center By JAY MILLER 10:44 am, September 8, 2010 While whom he reports to may change, MMPI Inc. president Christopher Kennedy says he's still strong on Cleveland and the planned convention center and medical merchandise mart his firm is working on developing in the city's downtown. “In Cleveland, our commitment to the success of the Cleveland Medical Mart and Convention Center continues only to grow stronger,” Mr. Kennedy said in a statement e-mailed to Crain's Cleveland Business. “Tenants love it, show organizers are enthusiastic, community support is outstanding and every day strengthens our belief in the success of the project.” A report in the current issue of Crain's Chicago Business said Vornado Realty Trust, MMPI's New York-based parent, has put the showroom real estate operator on the market. In an update, Crain's Chicago yesterday reported that Vornado this summer had an offer of $1.25 billion for most of MMPI's assets. However, that offer, from Cohen Bros. Realty Corp., a New York firm that operates four home design centers, was not completed for undisclosed reasons. A groundbreaking for the trade show complex on the mall is expected before the end of the year. http://www.crainscleveland.com/article/20100908/FREE/100909888
September 8, 201014 yr Crains also had a great editorial about this project by brian tucker... however it requires a print/email subscription.
September 8, 201014 yr another article from Crains. http://www.crainscleveland.com/article/20100907/FREE/100909910
September 20, 201014 yr Apparently convention center reconstruction isn't due to start anytime soon. This is on City Council's docket tonight.... Ord. No. 653-10 By Council Members Cimperman, K. Johnson, Cleveland, and Sweeney (by departmental request) Authorizing the Director of Parks, Recreation and Properties to amend the lease agreement between the City of Cleveland and Nehst Creations, LLC to extend the lease term up to an additional year and to make other changes to allow access to certain portions of the Convention Center and Convention Center Garage, for film production purposes. Remarks by Director of Parks, Recreation and Properties Department: See Legislation. Remarks by Director of Law Department: There is no legal objection to the passage of this legislation if amended. "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
September 20, 201014 yr The corner of St Clair/Ontario will be cleared first (ribbon cutting) Annex, Parking lot and Sportsman will allow for staging room to bring the 113 Bldg down. This will provide "Showtime" for MMPI, The County and City Officials to puff the Project. Look for late Oct or early Nov start. Weather is no factor to demolition.
September 22, 201014 yr A little bit of Nashville trying to say why it's better: http://www.medcitynews.com/2010/09/why-cleveland-doesnt-rock-qa-with-nashville-medical-mart-ceo/
September 22, 201014 yr A little bit of Nashville trying to say why it's better: http://www.medcitynews.com/2010/09/why-cleveland-doesnt-rock-qa-with-nashville-medical-mart-ceo/ PR chatter. .......In contrast, Nashville must find private financing, so it must lease about 65 percent of its showroom space to secure a loan. So far, though, it’s only publicly announced two tenants — and none since April NEXT!
September 22, 201014 yr yeah i dont see nashville being able to get everything together including financing and to get it built by 2013.
September 22, 201014 yr I hadnt heard much about the NY Mart either, but the last question is another hopeful sign for Cleveland Q: Do you consider the New York medical mart project to be dead? A: From all that we’ve been told, I think their employees have been terminated. Plus, we’ve not heard any announcement from them for awhile. For them, I think it was just a cost issue of trying to construct something like this in Manhattan.
September 22, 201014 yr ^Hmm...comments posters on this board were saying about New York over and over months ago while others (PD among them in there own headline grabbing way) were wringing their hands. It is just common sense...you don't even need inside information.
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