"Seems to be a pretty high stakes game of medical mart chicken going on..." - Hilarious commenter

The Nashville rendering looks cooler.

The Nashville rendering looks cooler.

I strongly disagree. I actually think it's butt-ugly.

The Nashville rendering looks cooler.

The Nashville rendering looks cooler.

I strongly disagree. I actually think it's butt-ugly.

Does it really matter?  Do they have funding?  Do they have signed leases?

 

The answer to all three is a big fat NO.

 

Honestly, this is what their center looks like to me!

 

from med city news

 

City, county to sign Cleveland medical mart contracts Thursday

 

http://www.medcitynews.com/2010/11/city-county-to-sign-key-medical-mart-agreements-thursday/

Beautiful

They used the old rendering

Here's something important from the article...

 

"MMPI has secured letters of intent from 41 tenants for showroom space at the medical mart. Those LOIs cover about 89,000 square feet of space, Johnson said. Plans call for about 100,000 square feet of showroom space to be available."

 

That's GREAT news, even though nothing is yet set in stone.  We're moving forward!!

So many projects close to groundbreaking. Its exciting, i cant wait till one actually happens. And wouldn't it be great to see the medical mart and malls, flats east bank, and casino under construction all at the same time.

 

Edit: and it would be great to see other smaller but still important projects get going like the schofield building

So did we set our sights too small?  To have 89% of the space already occupied suggests that there is much more demand than planners anticipated.

^Quality not quantity.  Letter of intent are not the same as a signed lease.

 

I trust MMPI, they know the business.  If they know they can rent more space, I am sure expansion plans will be in the works

 

 

I wonder how many workers will be on site?  The MM will help out businesses as soon as next year.

So did we set our sights too small?  To have 89% of the space already occupied suggests that there is much more demand than planners anticipated.

 

It's not occupied, there are no signed leases.  These are just letters of intent - which are not binding.  It is not a contract.

 

Either party can back out.

 

IIRC, there was some discussion that the MM will be built in this way, following other MMPI developments.  They build out one building then start work to add a next phase.

Ive seen no plans for future space or future phase.....  so not sure where a future phase would go. 

Cuyahoga County Building.  worst building in DT.

Cuyahoga County Building.  worst building in DT.

 

Which is why Im saving that site for a grand convention hotel.

^My gut tells me the hotel will go in the WHD lots.... or maybe even Jacobs' lot.  I think most developers know that there is a fast rising market for a larger hotel downtown (as much as existing hotels will fight that) and there will soon be a competition to see who can build one.  The County building lot is, IMO, not a good location for a grand hotel.  I agree with the notion that it would be perfect for future (as in 10 years down the road) expansion of the MM.  The County is in no position to move any time soon.

About five years after the project was proposed, commissioners approved land purchases, a lease and operation agreement with the county's private partner, Chicago-based MMPI. The board also imposed a 1 percentage point hike in the hotel bed tax to help pay for operations.

 

MMPI also today secured cost guarantees from design-builder Turner Construction Co. Under the agreement, Turner will compete the design and construction for $348 million.

http://blog.cleveland.com/metro/2010/11/post_396.html

 

 

Im pretty sure the author wanted to say "complete the design and construction for $348 MM"

One down, two to go!!!

 

This is great for Cleveland!

^Casino and Flats East Bank??

^Yep.

i have to admit this comment on cle dot bomb make me laugh:

 

 

neoguy November 18, 2010 at 3:48PM

 

They had all this time and collected all that tax money and THAT is the design they came up with? A big square? And plain as it is, it STILL costs $465 million?!? Bleck! Throw some checkerboard paint on an old RTA bus garage and save yourself a bundle.

 

 

Spin off hotel being planned 4 Euclid Ave using historic tax credits.

That is in addition to the E Bank hotel. Wolstein is completing finance before end of year.

That is in addition to the E Bank hotel. Wolstein is completing finance before end of year.

 

Link? Or are you talking about JHB?

Let's just get shovels in the ground on this one!! It has been far too long of a wait.

There are three spinoff hotels being looked at along Euclid - JHB, Schofield, and now this talk of the CAC.  I guess Schofield is technically on E. 9th, but it owns that corner with Euclid.

There are three spinoff hotels being looked at along Euclid - JHB, Schofield, and now this talk of the CAC.  I guess Schofield is technically on E. 9th, but it owns that corner with Euclid.

 

JHB?

around 1100 Euclid Ave

around 1100 Euclid Ave

 

Why didn't you just say the John Hartness Buildings?  :?  I read the thread and am now up to speed.

 

I read the thread. I am up to speed now.

 

Congratulations to us all.

i have to admit this comment on cle dot bomb make me laugh:

 

 

neoguy November 18, 2010 at 3:48PM

 

They had all this time and collected all that tax money and THAT is the design they came up with? A big square? And plain as it is, it STILL costs $465 million?!? Bleck! Throw some checkerboard paint on an old RTA bus garage and save yourself a bundle.

 

 

Well you're not going to get much for that price.  I've always wondered what they would get for $465MM.  Seems cheap to me.

I trust MMPI, they know the business. If they know they can rent more space, I am sure expansion plans will be in the works

 

Plus, if you're a medical supply company and you say, "Gee, I'd really like to be a part of that medical mart project in Cleveland but I got shut out," well there's some parking lots just west down St. Clair I could sell you...  Well, not me personally, but the land owners...

 

My point is that the MedMart could be the center for "Class A" medical suppliers.  However, if it's successful, I think there could be opportunities for Class B and Class C suppliers to find other places within the city.  Sure, you might not have permanent showroom space IN the medical mart, but you could probably participate at shows in the convention center and have your permanent showroom somewhere else in the city. (District of Design?)  Yes, the main selling point of the MedMart is everything under one roof, but if it works and buyers from around the world are coming to Cleveland to see this stuff, how hard is it to jump on the HealthLine to check out another company?

 

Heck, it might even be BETTER for the city than if the med mart was 2-3 times as large.  As long as it's big enough to make Cleveland a destination to begin with.

Yeah I thought about that too Jborger.  If medical suppliers get shut out, there is plenty of space for them to lease downtown to set up their own showroom. 

is the current building design open to expansion?

is the current building design open to expansion?

 

Thatws what I was asking earlier.  There is certainly no provision for it in the plans, but poissibly on the north side....?

I am not sure if it has been specifically mentioned, at least lately, but I am nearly certain they have the ability to expand northward. 

They are building a small plaza between the MM and the County building.

More encouraging news for Cleveland....  (Sounds like one down and one to go!)

 

I found this line especially encouraging in regard to the remaining competition:

 

Future uncertain for proposed medical mart in New York City

Published: Friday, November 19, 2010, 9:00 PM    Updated: Saturday, November 20, 2010, 4:44 AM

 

"Planned as a 12-story, 1.5-million-square-foot trade center, the privately financed Nashville project would be much larger than its Cleveland counterpart. Market Center Management has signed two tenants, Daugherty said, and more will be announced in the coming weeks. He said 60 to 70 must be signed for developers to get financing."

 

Only 2 of 60 - 70 needed to get financing....  it could be a while for them, and with Cleveland's momentum here, I think they will have a hard time getting there...

 

http://blog.cleveland.com/metro/2010/11/future_uncertain_for_proposed.html#incart_hbx

 

 

 

For those of you just tuning in, Litt does a nice summary of the history of the MM/CC

 

Now it's a real deal: Cuyahoga County and MMPI Inc. sign closing documents on Cleveland medical mart and convention center

 

http://blog.cleveland.com/architecture/2010/11/now_its_a_real_deal_cuyahoga_c.html

http://yourchangingcleveland.com/

 

This website is an interactive website created to help define the new group plan ideas for the mall above the convention center and medical mart.  I think we should/could all benefit sharing our ideas to continue shaping the future of our city.  I for one am pleased to see the city wants our input.

Getting Closer. County/City agreements signed. http://www.woio.com/Global/story.asp?S=13596057

I just came across this interview from a few weeks ago with the developer of the Nashville Medical Trade Center: http://www.smartplanet.com/people/blog/pure-genius/nashville-to-build-worlds-largest-medical-trade-center/4817/

 

Here's the Nashville center's developer's take on the vastly different scale of their project and MMP's Cleveland mart:

 

The other project is the one that’s been announced for Cleveland. It’s quite small—130,000 square feet. That’s one floor of the project we’re developing in Nashville. In Dallas, for example, we have 6.5 million square feet.

 

If you look at the health care industry I’d contend it’s different than the apparel industry. Isn’t it one-sixth of our economy? Scale is vital. Without scale you can’t create critical mass. They want to be able to come into an environment, and when they make that capital purchase, feel comfortable they’ve surveyed the market.

 

I have no reason to doubt MMP's business plan, but it's clearly somewhat different in ambition from the one for Nashville.

 

EDIT: Goes with out saying that the Nashville plan is still a big "if" considering their need for private financing, so I'm not viewing this is threatening.  Simply interesting that two competitors could have such different visions of a similar type of project.

As has been mentioned before, there is nothing stopping MMPI from expanding its "permanent" showroom space if the market demands it do so.  Until one of these is up, running and successful, I am going to predict that Nashville is overreaching more than a bit.

Well, the thing that might stop the expansion is leaving enough on the table for someone else to make a go of it with their own, larger facility.

True, but still better than overextending yourself, and consequently failing, from the start.

My guess, if expansion was warrented, parts of the convention center could be made into temporary showrooms. 

This is not MMPI's first rodeo, they will figure it out.

It appears nashville wants to try the "build big, they will come" line.

 

Most merchandise marts are built in phases.  Again, have any of you been to a working Mart before?

 

This is just fluff....NEXT!

While I haven't, and I doubt anyone else here has, I would hope that we are still allowed to think for ourselves and hold our own opinions based on what we do know.  Is that OK with you, MTS?

Play nice!

 

113 Bldg is clearing out. Sportsman will close Dec 10.

While I haven't, and I doubt anyone else here has, I would hope that we are still allowed to think for ourselves and hold our own opinions based on what we do know.  Is that OK with you, MTS?

 

NO!  Now back under the stairs!  :whip:  :whip: