July 8, 201113 yr Ha, I think they used those same panels on the Death Star! http://lmnts.lmnarchitects.com/fabrication/mm-fabrication/#more-652 a new article is posted regarding the panel fabrication for the medical mart. There is a great photo of a full scale mockup of the panels with the windows of how the finished product will look.
July 9, 201113 yr Ha, I think they used those same panels on the Death Star! http://lmnts.lmnarchitects.com/fabrication/mm-fabrication/#more-652 a new article is posted regarding the panel fabrication for the medical mart. There is a great photo of a full scale mockup of the panels with the windows of how the finished product will look. You say that as if its a bad thing!
July 13, 201113 yr Ha, I think they used those same panels on the Death Star! http://lmnts.lmnarchitects.com/fabrication/mm-fabrication/#more-652 a new article is posted regarding the panel fabrication for the medical mart. There is a great photo of a full scale mockup of the panels with the windows of how the finished product will look. You say that as if its a bad thing! Well the Death Star was blown up twice!
July 14, 201113 yr Thanks Hts121. Those are fascinating photos to study. "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
July 15, 201113 yr Crews poised to pour the concrete foundation for Cuyahoga County's medical mart CLEVELAND, Ohio -- Construction crews will pour 3,300 cubic yards of concrete early Saturday to create the foundation for the medical mart. About 330 trucks will haul loads of concrete to the site, at the northeast corner of St. Clair Avenue and Ontario Street, around 3 a.m.. "This is a significant milestone," said Dave Johnson, a spokesman for MMPI, which is developing the project. "This is the building block for the future medical mart." http://www.cleveland.com/medicalmart/index.ssf/2011/07/medical_mart.html
July 17, 201113 yr From Friday the 16th, various views from the Library and street level. They poured the concrete pad later that night.
July 17, 201113 yr There's something very impressive about that third picture, mrclifton88. Thanks! "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
July 17, 201113 yr Does anyone know if the esplanades will extend into Mall A? I wonder how/if the tree wells are possible. It would be great to have all the Group Plan buildings powerwashed to bring the buildings to a uniform color.
July 21, 201113 yr Does anyone know what is to become of the building next to the Medical Mart? Do you think they will eventually build a hotel? What do you all think of the design of the Medical Mart? Why do we not have a video representation of the MedMart like Nashville?
July 21, 201113 yr jbee1982, welcome to the forum. Which building next to the medical mart? East or west? If to the west, that's the Cuyahoga County administration building. To the east, its Public Auditorium. No convention hotel is planned, but several hotels nearby are planned and and existing Sheraton hotel is being renovated. See other threads for discussion on those projects. Existing hotels have occupancy rates in the 50-60 range percent, so the existing plus the planned new hotels will likely be able to handle the expanded number of visitors. Do a search for commentary on the design, which has been discussed extensively here in this thread. Here's a couple of public videos. They do have a video they provide to prospective tenants, which I saw on display at the MM/CC offices in the Penton Building.... Cleveland Medical Mart, One of a Kind - Video Cleveland Medical Mart - Living Spaces - Video And I think this is a very interesting video by a construction/demolitions industry publication. Did you know that the old convention center and associated demolished structures are being recycled into the Inner Belt and Flats East Bank construction projects..... http://www.cdrecycler.com/Content.aspx?content_id=2567 "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
July 21, 201113 yr Also, keep in mind that depending on the success of the MM, they have mentioned expansion possibilities which Im guessing would go in at least part of that space (where the County buildings currently are). Also, depending on the success and demand of the CC and MM, they may still need a true convention sized hotel in the future, so this would make an ideal spot. It would be nice to see something more grand in that spot thats for sure.
July 21, 201113 yr jbee1982, welcome to the forum. Which building next to the medical mart? East or west? If to the west, that's the Cuyahoga County administration building. To the east, its Public Auditorium. Technicality, but the admininstration building is directly to the north of the MM. Instead of a hotel, I think that lot is prime for an expansion of the MM if it is as successful as we all hope it will be. There are plenty of other lots for a convention sized hotel if one is needed at a future date..... and it would probably be better IMO to place that hotel in a more central area anyways, such as a WHD parking lot.
July 21, 201113 yr That's true. And the Cleveland Board of Education is also next to the CC/MM site, on the east side. "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
July 21, 201113 yr jbee1982, welcome to the forum. Which building next to the medical mart? East or west? If to the west, that's the Cuyahoga County administration building. To the east, its Public Auditorium. Technicality, but the admininstration building is directly to the north of the MM. Instead of a hotel, I think that lot is prime for an expansion of the MM if it is as successful as we all hope it will be. There are plenty of other lots for a convention sized hotel if one is needed at a future date..... and it would probably be better IMO to place that hotel in a more central area anyways, such as a WHD parking lot. Disagree on the Convention Hotel being on a separate property. Usually the whole point is to have the hotel and the convention space connected. Placing the hotel in a spot other than the current CCA bldg. wouldn't make as much sense. And I would hope that the BoE bldg gets turned into a boutique hotel not a convention hotel.
July 21, 201113 yr ^Perhaps, but as I said, I think the higher value of that particular parcel is to hold it for possible expansion of the MM. At least wait to see how the concept works out. As nice as it would be to have a convention sized hotel right at the CC/MM's doorstep, it would be even more vital for the MM to not be parsed up in a non-contiguous fashion. I also have to think that any such hotel would want to split the distance with the casino(s).
July 21, 201113 yr How big is a "convention-sized hotel" supposed to be? Isn't the Marriott at the MM/CC's doorstep? That is a pretty large hotel.
July 21, 201113 yr I've never understood this either. You've got the Marriott and whatever will be in the Crown Plaza right next door to this facility. Then you've got the Renaissance and the Ritz, and the Hyatt all a block away. Apparently that's not enough? I guess we need a big (BIG!!) hotel nearby as well. At the rate we're going with all the hotels I'm hearing proposed, we're going to be overstocked pretty quickly. Maybe we need them all at peak times, but what about during off convention periods (I'm going out on a limb and guessing the facility isn't going to be 100% booked 100% of the time). Do we build to peak demand, or what the average run rate will be?
July 21, 201113 yr I think Marriot has less than 400 rooms and a 'convention-sized hotel' would probably be double that.
July 21, 201113 yr That's my understanding too -- a convention-sized hotel is 800 rooms. But to accommodate large conventions, you need 2,000 rooms "close by." SOURCE: http://impactnews.com/central-austin/news/10598-downtowns-hotel-shortage-may-stunt-convention-business-revenue "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
July 21, 201113 yr :-o Wow 800? What's the biggest hotel downtown... Wouldn't it be the Marriott or the Renaissance? I think both of those only have around 400 rooms.
July 21, 201113 yr The article about the Crowne Plaza renovation states it's built to operate 472 rooms but has only been operating at a fraction of the capacity. The Marriott I've always seen listed as 390ish and the Renaissance I've seen listed at 490ish.
July 21, 201113 yr Aren't there also a few buildings that are currently empty (on Euclid) or under construction (Schofield Building) that are going to be turned into hotels?? I think that the total of all of the current rooms in the area and then these new hotel rooms that will be built would be enough to handle a convention. All of these places are close enough for a 3 block walk, a hotel shuttle or a $2 cab ride to get to the CC & MM, so I would think that they could/should be considered "close by". I'm thinking along the lines of AJ93, that having multiple hotels "close by" the CC & MM would be better than having one large hotel that takes business from the other ones currently downtown, but then is periodically empty because there isn't a convention in town.
July 21, 201113 yr That's my understanding too -- a convention-sized hotel is 800 rooms. But to accommodate large conventions, you need 2,000 rooms "close by." SOURCE: http://impactnews.com/central-austin/news/10598-downtowns-hotel-shortage-may-stunt-convention-business-revenue One property that houses 750-800 rooms plus at least a minimum of 10k square feet of meeting space is considered, "convention sized" I've never understood this either. You've got the Marriott and whatever will be in the Crown Plaza right next door to this facility. Then you've got the Renaissance and the Ritz, and the Hyatt all a block away. Apparently that's not enough? I guess we need a big (BIG!!) hotel nearby as well. At the rate we're going with all the hotels I'm hearing proposed, we're going to be overstocked pretty quickly. Maybe we need them all at peak times, but what about during off convention periods (I'm going out on a limb and guessing the facility isn't going to be 100% booked 100% of the time). Do we build to peak demand, or what the average run rate will be? Being across or nearby doesn't make it a convention size or oriented hotel. In addition, those are various properties not one single property. It has to be one single property. Most convention centers have one property attached and at many times share meetings although one party controls booking the meeting space. For instance in ATL. The Westin, the Marriott Marquis and the Hyatt are all categorized at convention sized properties although they are not next to the convention center. The Omni, which is attached to the convention center was just a regular hotel. When they renovated and built their second tower, it then was categorized as a convention property. Its not always about being overstocked, which I feel we wont be, it's about having choices. Currently if a corporattion has a preferred brand, they dont even look at Cleveland because we dont have a full menu of hotels like Chicago, Boston, Philly and DC do. Even Minneapolis has better options. Say I wanted to book a convention and our preferred travel partners were SPG & Kimpton. I bypass Cleveland. We need more brands so that the convention space as well as leisure traveler has choices. That is were Marketing Cleveland and all her offerings comes into the play. Right now SPG, with W Hotels, Luxury Collection and Westin brands; Hyatt with their Grand Hyatt, Andaz and Park Hyatt brands and Kimpton with their Palomar, Monaco and new Eventi brands are not even in Cleveland. Not to mention Sofitel, Lowes, Four Season, Fairmount or other boutique brands are not here. I think we're in a situation in which Philly/Boston & DC were in 8/10 years ago. Philly had very few hotels, no nice properties at that. DC hotels were old and strictly for the business traveler, then Kimpton moved in. Those cities properties improved upon new/renovated CC spaces.
July 21, 201113 yr Aren't there also a few buildings that are currently empty (on Euclid) or under construction (Schofield Building) that are going to be turned into hotels?? I think that the total of all of the current rooms in the area and then these new hotel rooms that will be built would be enough to handle a convention. All of these places are close enough for a 3 block walk, a hotel shuttle or a $2 cab ride to get to the CC & MM, so I would think that they could/should be considered "close by". I'm thinking along the lines of AJ93, that having multiple hotels "close by" the CC & MM would be better than having one large hotel that takes business from the other ones currently downtown, but then is periodically empty because there isn't a convention in town. That not exactly what happens. most properties have towers, executive level accommodations so even if the hotel is not booked up they can move people around based on status so that they maximize the experience for elite travelers. In the hotel business variety and option is key.
July 21, 201113 yr ^^I see what you're saying, and that makes sense. But by the same token I have to wonder how the financing for all these hotels is going to come about. Hotel financing isn't easy to begin with, then you're looking to construct based not on existing demand, but on projected. That kind of if/come financing is doubly hard to get. Maybe larger brands have better access to construction funds, but I'm guessing it's tough everywhere. If I'm underwriting one of these deals, my concern isn't with options for conventioneers, but what does occupancy dive to during the in between periods. Will the income generated during peak times be sufficient to cover the down?
July 21, 201113 yr ^^I see what you're saying, and that makes sense. But by the same token I have to wonder how the financing for all these hotels is going to come about. Hotel financing isn't easy to begin with, then you're looking to construct based not on existing demand, but on projected. That kind of if/come financing is doubly hard to get. Maybe larger brands have better access to construction funds, but I'm guessing it's tough everywhere. If I'm underwriting one of these deals, my concern isn't with options for conventioneers, but what does occupancy dive to during the in between periods. Will the income generated during peak times be sufficient to cover the down? That where you look at bookings per square feet. Also remember that even with a modern facility we do a fair amount of convention business and our room rates are considerably lower than our DIRECT competition in Minnie, Chicago, DC, Philly and Boston*. These are cities that have new cc and hub airlines. *not a hub but a big focus city for various airlines and has non international service on several airlines.
July 21, 201113 yr Thanks for the reply's MyTwoSense. When you put it that way, I do see that having the ability to move travelers around and upgrade them is an advantage. But my thinking was that too much availability would be bad for the existing hotels and some of the newer small boutique hotels. Just wanted to make sure that building a large "convention sized" hotel wouldn’t put 5 other smaller hotels out of business. In an ideal world multiple conventions and increased tourism would fill up every empty room that we have downtown, but we all know that we're not living in an ideal world!!! :-D
July 21, 201113 yr Thanks for the reply's MyTwoSense. When you put it that way, I do see that having the ability to move travelers around and upgrade them is an advantage. But my thinking was that too much availability would be bad for the existing hotels and some of the newer small boutique hotels. Just wanted to make sure that building a large "convention sized" hotel wouldn’t put 5 other smaller hotels out of business. In an ideal world multiple conventions and increased tourism would fill up every empty room that we have downtown, but we all know that we're not living in an ideal world!!! ;D How is it bad for the existing hotels? IMHO, either they have what travelers want or don't? What "newer small boutique" hotels do we have? Again, convention business is a part of hotels, Leisure travelers are a big part of travel.
July 24, 201113 yr Lest we venture too far into the "this-or-that hotel" debate, here's a pic of the construction: clevelandskyscrapers.com Cleveland Skyscrapers on Instagram
July 25, 201113 yr Looks like the webcam is back up. Hopefully it stays. http://www.clevelandmedicalmart.com/about/live-web-cam/
July 28, 201113 yr A couple of shots form the CCMM website. Nice to see they are continuing to work into the night :-). These appear to be a mat foundation for something....doesn't appear to be the Medical Mart. Actually the webcam shows it already completed, just below and next to the MM. https://www.instagram.com/cle_and_beyond/https://www.instagram.com/jbkaufer/
July 30, 201113 yr Note the mockup panel for the Medical Mart facade on the right: clevelandskyscrapers.com Cleveland Skyscrapers on Instagram
August 2, 201113 yr I see a red crane at the MM/CC!!! I feel like I'm bird-spotting.... look, there's a crane! Get it? Bird? Crane? "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
August 2, 201113 yr And here I was thinking cranes of all colors were endangered these days... It's good to see a flock of them have settled around Cleveland. :) As mammoth as that hole looks in the picture, it seems even larger driving or walking past. Good times!
August 14, 201113 yr Great picture, I had no idea I could save 15% in 15 minutes. Man, you have good eyesight. p.s. Mayday that is one majestic shot you have there!
August 15, 201113 yr You should have run down into the pit and continually shot pics until they tackled you. But even so, wow!
August 16, 201113 yr is there a construction calendar backthread somewhere? you know, one that has all the general site prep, demo, pour, re-roof, interiors, landscaping, etc. finish dates listed? they got a lot of pouring to do and i am curious as to when they will start to put the lid back on.
August 16, 201113 yr is there a construction calendar backthread somewhere? you know, one that has all the general site prep, demo, pour, re-roof, interiors, landscaping, etc. finish dates listed? they got a lot of pouring to do and i am curious as to when they will start to put the lid back on. I'd like this info, too. I can't even remember what the tentative ribbon cutting date is!
August 22, 201113 yr Have there been any updates regarding the Nashville Medical Mart? Is this still a viable project or has it gone the way of the New York Medical Mart?
August 22, 201113 yr The latest news I could find on Nashville's Medical Mart: http://www.medcitynews.com/2011/08/nashville-medical-mart-adds-clinical-services-firm-specialtycare-as-tenant/
August 22, 201113 yr If I needed medical treatment, there are at least 10 places I'd go to before I would even think of Tennessee. However, Nashville must be emboldened lately by the Wall Street Journal's recent article, "Where the Action Is. Across the country, new industry hubs are drawing entrepreneurs and investors—and offering start-ups support and safety in a turbulent economy", which labeled Nashville as a growing healthcare hub. Perhaps the Journal already considers CLE a healthcare hub, so no need to mention in the article. http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424053111903341404576484240498824846.html
August 22, 201113 yr If I needed medical treatment, there are at least 10 places I'd go to before I would even think of Tennessee. However, Nashville must be emboldened lately by the Wall Street Journal's recent article, "Where the Action Is. Across the country, new industry hubs are drawing entrepreneurs and investors—and offering start-ups support and safety in a turbulent economy", which labeled Nashville as a growing healthcare hub. Perhaps the Journal already considers CLE a healthcare hub, so no need to mention in the article. http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424053111903341404576484240498824846.html Considering that Minnesota, Boston, the Research Triangle and San Diego (and Cleveland) were also not mentioned, its obvious that this article is pointing out places that people wouldn't normally expect to be biotech players.
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