Does anyone know if conventions like the Cleveland Auto Show would/could be moved here?  Is the IX Center still going to be the main venue for conventions? 

^^You are right. Cleveland shouldn't just focus on bringing medical conventions here. But the MM folks are supposed to bring a certain number of shows to the new CC. It is (was) to be another draw to Cleveland on top of the other attractions the city already offers.

 

Just so my position is clear, I'm more upset about the circumstances under which we agreed to the CC renovation. If the city had elected to renovate the CC independently of the MM (i.e. the city thought, without assurances from MMPI, that this might drive new business), then I'd be more understanding of MMPI's change in strategy. But the city moved ahead specifically because of those assurances from MMPI, which they seem to be trying to back out of now. We're holding up our end of the bargain, and I think the city should take a stronger stance to ensure that MMPI does as well.

^^You are right. Cleveland shouldn't just focus on bringing medical conventions here. But the MM folks are supposed to bring a certain number of shows to the new CC. It is (was) to be another draw to Cleveland on top of the other attractions the city already offers.

 

Just so my position is clear, I'm more upset about the circumstances under which we agreed to the CC renovation. If the city had elected to renovate the CC independently of the MM (i.e. the city thought, without assurances from MMPI, that this might drive new business), then I'd be more understanding of MMPI's change in strategy. But the city moved ahead specifically because of those assurances from MMPI, which they seem to be trying to back out of now. We're holding up our end of the bargain, and I think the city should take a stronger stance to ensure that MMPI does as well.

The convention center was woefully outdated. You have to have an updated convention center to compete. The convention center didn't need to be renovated. It needed to be demolished and replaced. The city didn't have the money to do this. So, to me, the Medical Mart was just a reason to get what we really needed, a convention center that wasn't so hopelessly out of date. I posted this article earlier but here's another piece of it to show that this was the right thing to do:

 

"Even two years before the city's new convention center is finished, big industrial organizations already are signing up to use it. And when they do, some shows will bring thousands of people to town, Positively Cleveland says. It wasn't that the industrial groups ever had a beef with this shrunken old manufacturing giant; there just weren't good places to hold conventions here, Positively Cleveland leaders say.

 

While the convention center, medical mart and the area's industrial base are big draws, comments from those planning to hold shows here indicate Cleveland has made other bright moves in recent times that are boosting its attractiveness as a convention center. They cite the entertainment- related development of East Fourth Street and the Warehouse District as draws, along with the hotels, sports venues and the new casino that's planned.

 

Mr. Ashburn said his iron and steel group's members, who last visited for a trade show in 2006, love coming to Cleveland, and so does he. The hotels, restaurants, nightclubs and tourist destinations are all top-notch, he said, and members want to come back. Mr. Miller of the American Chemical Society's Rubber Division agreed. “People love Cleveland, especially the international travelers,” he said. “The nightlife, the things to see, the culture, the restaurants — it's just perfect.”

 

“Every other city in our competition set has had a new convention center,” Mr. Julian said. “Now, we're the ones seeing a resurgence of activity because we're getting a new facility.”"http://www.crainscleveland.com/article/20110822/FREE/308229962

 

We need to be competitive. You can't do that with an old, outdated facility. Sprucing it up isn't good enough. The demand is there, obviously, as events are already coming back. A new convention center was absolutely necessary if you want a more stable downtown market and not just one driven by sports events. This isn't a cure all, but its one piece of the puzzle to become a 24 hour city. This is important. The Medical Mart is extra.

There are multiple positives without even considering the MM.  First, these dealings have transferred the CC and associated risk/reward on to the county.  That is a big change and one that should help us in the convention business moving forward.  The city was given an influx of cash which it used to do the Perk Park project and get the ball rolling on the much needed repairs to PA.  The malls are getting a makeover and developers have some serious interest in the structures surrounding the malls.  Infrastructure work is being done.  New ideas are being tossed about.  There is a significant butterfly effect going on here.  I don't see how, even if the MM is a total failure which I don't expect it to be, all of this is not worth the minor sales tax increase.

^Exactly...well said.

I hope you're right.

The idea that we needed a new convention center presupposes that it is worthwhile trying to compete in the convention business.  I know they ignore the psychological benefits associated with having hundreds of conventioneers roaming around town, but I'm pretty sure there are reams of economic studies that suggest that big convention center projects rarely generate a positive financial return to the community.  The Med Mart was sold as somehow changing that calculus, though even then, there was a lot of skepticism from the get go, ergo, no public vote on the tax increase.

 

I get that there are all kinds of spin-off benefits, but I question whether this was an efficient way to get those.  For instance, since the sales tax was imposed from above anyway, why not just spend the $450M on the malls, remaking public square, a bridge to the lakefront and modernizing Public Hall and just get out of the lousy convention business?  With some of that money you could even lure a department store downtown for 10 years to make 327 happy.  Ahhh hindsight...if only the commissioners then knew their political careers were over, they could have spent the money on anything without the stupid convention center figleaf.

^This

But if we had floated "this"..... do you think it would have ever got financed?

But if we had floated "this"..... do you think it would have ever got financed?

The short answer is...no.

So you guys don't think extending the sales tax increase will be on the table when the Group Plan Commission releases its financing recomendations?  You might be right, but I'd be surprised.

It might, but only because of the momentum already built towards that decision.  The 'increase' was the tough sell.  An 'extension' won't be as hard to sway opinion in favor of.

^I think the increase was the easy sell, because only two people (Dimora and Hagan) had to be convinced.  I have no idea if they could have been convinced to impose a much smaller tax to fund purely public improvements instead.

 

I should confess that I'm just as excited as the next guy for all the shiny new we're going to get downtown from this, and I was fine with this project, even though the economic benefits always seemed somewhat suspect.  I just get a little less fine when MMPI says things that hints that we may be paying even more for that shiny new than we originally thought.  And if the Group Plan commission does find a way to fund some serious downtown improvements directly, it will suggest to me that doubling down in the convention business wasn't really the only way to get some of these incidental ancillary benefits.

 

Anyway, the project's abuilding, so no changing things now.  All we can do is learn what we can and see if it helps us when the next big thing comes along.

So you guys don't think extending the sales tax increase will be on the table when the Group Plan Commission releases its financing recomendations?  You might be right, but I'd be surprised.

 

Everything that I have seen (previously) has indicated that it wouldnt be an option, although I hope that they reconsider since I think at this point it would be well worth adding a few years of sales tax in order to do the malls and surroundings in a way that people would be proud of/make for an attraction in itself. 

But if we had floated "this"..... do you think it would have ever got financed?

Thank you.

We all know the answer to this one.

^Maybe they would have, maybe not. I could forsee a situation where, with the new county government, the county and city came up with a plan to transfer control of the CC under the new desire to regionalize. As to the other things, a lot of what you're listing as a benefit in insubstantial right now. Ideas are being thrown around all the time (lakefront plan, I'm looking squarely at you), that doesn't mean they're going to happen. Developers show interest in a lot of projects (Pesht, now it's your turn) doesn't mean they'll come to fruition. How much of these ideas / plans presuppose a lively convention market with the shows the MMPI group promised as the cornerstone? I don't know.

 

I'm being a Debbie Downer, and I don't mean to be. I'm as excited about the 'new shiny' as you guys are. I'm angry (and frankly, the more we try to put a positive spin on this, the angrier I'm getting) at the situation that we're being placed in, before the project is even completed, where we're already coming up with the next best use for the MM. This isn't the result of the economy, this is a fundamental flaw in the premise behind the MM, that apparently everyone in medical equipment purchasing positions knew, but no-one at MMPI or the county took the time to understand (or maybe one or both parties did know, but went ahead with this figuring they wouldn't be around when the sh!t hit the fan). A flawed premise that we relied on to invest $450 Million dollars (or $800MM, depending on how you look at it) into. A flawed premise that was used to convince the county to execute an extremely one-sided contract with MMPI, based on the belief that the region was ultimately benefiiting from the additional CC business and the increased hotel beds, etc. that comes with them.  Now the flaw in that premise has been rooted out, MMPI admits as much, and nobody seems to think that anything out of the ordinary is occurring. The project is just 'evolving'.

 

THAT's what's p!ssing me off

Does anyone know if conventions like the Cleveland Auto Show would/could be moved here?  Is the IX Center still going to be the main venue for conventions? 

 

I haven't seen any confirmed schedules, but I personally doubt the auto or boat show would move downtown.  The IX offers and incredible amount of floor space at cheap rates.  The city/county would have to offer quite the rent deal to offset the more expensive labor, etc.

AJ - I think you kind of make my point in your first paragraph.  Had we not gotten the earth moving on this project, we would still be in the "let's toss some ideas around" stage.  It would have never gotten done.  Not in this economic climate.  The MM was a selliing point.  Gilded, perhaps, but a selling point nonetheless.  Take that away and all the grass would still be on the malls right now.

 

I feel sorry for those who feel swindled, but I have followed development in this town lomg enough to have not fallen hook line and sinker for the rosy predictions of what this project could be if all the chips fall right.

So our choice is between hot air about development projects that never will occur, or development projects that move ahead based on false presumptions? I have to be happy because we're building....something...even if it's not what we were originally promised. But I have limited to no say in any of the decisions or how the money is spent. 

 

 

Well, at least I'm not mad anymore. Now I just feel defeated, powerless...and just plain sad.

I can't tell you how to feel, but I hope we can all wait and see what happens in the coming months and years before coming to a verdict. Ultimately, none of us have much say or influence in anything that happens in something so large as a city with all of its variables bumping into each other. It's very much like the weather. We can have opinions on it, read about in a newspaper or come to conclusions about it on a message board. But it certainly won't affect it much if at all. Whatever happens is going to happen. So dress for it and make the most of it.

Does anyone know if conventions like the Cleveland Auto Show would/could be moved here?  Is the IX Center still going to be the main venue for conventions? 

Somewhere I read that the consumer type shows (Auto, Boat, Home & Garden) type shows will continue to be at the IX Center because of plentiful parking and fairly easy access to highways.  Those shows draw people from the region and only generate hotel revenue based on the number of out of town exhibitors.  The type of conventions/trade shows that are being courted for downtown are the industry shows, trade associations and manufacturing.  These bring people from across the country and internationally.  Those events create hotel and dining revenue.  While this type of event has shrunk in the past couple of years, it is still steady.  Those organizations looks for places like Cleveland to host the event because it is affordable, fairly easily accessible (hub airport) and has interest outside of the event itself (the lake, RRHOF, etc.).  When I was involved in the production of one of these events my favorite choice was Indianapolis because of the same reasons I listed, affordable, accessible, other activities.  We never used Cleveland because the Convention Center sucked!

 

That being said, the first three years will be key.  If the venue opens on time and groups get a good experience, then word will spread.  Meeting planners talk (they have their own association too) and referrals are a big part of how a location gets an event.  I'm no expert, but if the center can be booked 40 to 50% of the first year, then call it a success.  After the first year they need to be closer to 80% in order to give all the supporting businesses (hotels, restaurants, bars) continued success.

Does anyone know if conventions like the Cleveland Auto Show would/could be moved here?  Is the IX Center still going to be the main venue for conventions?

 

I heard a while back that the auto show has little chance at going to the new convention center. I'm pretty sure part of it is because they have those areas where you can test drive some of the cars, that would be nearly impossible downtown. I wish they'd move it down there though, it would be nice to jump on the rapid instead of having to drive out to the IX center, I go to the auto show every year, and it's just about the only thing like that I go to.

aren't they, or didn't they recently pour some money into the IX center?  I think they plan on keeping the big things there.

Reading these comments I had to remind myself that this was not the comment section of Cleveland.com.  The building will not even be completed for 2 years!

I get that there are all kinds of spin-off benefits' date=' but I question whether this was an efficient way to get those.  For instance, since the sales tax was imposed from above anyway, why not just spend the $450M on the malls, remaking public square, a bridge to the lakefront and modernizing Public Hall and just get out of the lousy convention business?[/quote']

 

I don't thing "get[ting] out of the lousy convention business" is a good idea for a city with Cleveland's level of stature. The ability to host a convention is basic to every major city in the world, just as the presence of hotels and corporate offices are. Whether or not conventions make money for their cities, they put cities on the global map. Who knows the impact of that? tourism, business transactions, and employment development may occur because of people's familiarity with the city---unrelated to a specific convention and thus not counted in the revenue attributed to the convention business. But all major cities in the world have to be able to host a convention. If not, they lose credibility and importance in an ever-increasing competitive world. That said, Cleveland needed a new convention center. You are right to be upset as to how it happened (if indeed the MM doesn't fulfill its end of the bargain), but at the end of the day no convention center is much worse than a convention center and a weak MM.

 

 

 

 

 

 

I get that there are all kinds of spin-off benefits' date=' but I question whether this was an efficient way to get those.  For instance, since the sales tax was imposed from above anyway, why not just spend the $450M on the malls, remaking public square, a bridge to the lakefront and modernizing Public Hall and just get out of the lousy convention business?[/quote']

 

I don't thing "get[ting] out of the lousy convention business" is a good idea for a city with Cleveland's level of stature. The ability to host a convention is basic to every major city in the world, just as the presence of hotels and corporate offices are. Whether or not conventions make money for their cities, they put cities on the global map. Who knows the impact of that? tourism, business transactions, and employment development may occur because of people's familiarity with the city---unrelated to a specific convention and thus not counted in the revenue attributed to the convention business. But all major cities in the world have to be able to host a convention. If not, they lose credibility and importance in an ever-increasing competitive world. That said, Cleveland needed a new convention center. You are right to be upset as to how it happened (if indeed the MM doesn't fulfill its end of the bargain), but at the end of the day no convention center is much worse than a convention center and a weak MM.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

It would be nice if conventions and convention centers were profit centers.  They aren't of course but what they do is to provide a marketing tool for the City.  Conventioneers and Companies come from anywhere and everywhere.  They see the City and its assets as they function in day-to-day life, not some Potemkin Village marketing package.  If after 10 years and countless conventions a few companies create a few hundred (or few thousand) new jobs, then the facility has provided a positive.

 

As far a the relative success of the MM, was RTP (in the RDU area) a resounding success when envisioned and built)?  I don't know, but success is usually not immediate or overnight.  It has to be marketed.  Prospective tenenats may just want to wait and see what the finished product is all about.  And there's the economy.  Could it be that those prosepctive tenants know that in a bad economy the consumer (them) is in the left seat.  Perhaps they holding out for more advantageous terms by not jumping in at the beginning.

Hmm:

 

http://blog.cleveland.com/metro/2011/10/changeup_in_medical_mart_plans.html?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

 

 

Im not sure how confident I am about the medical mart anymore. Im happy we are getting a new convention center. After more information comes out and If the medical mart seems like its going to be a complete bust, I almost wish the money would be directed into more focus on the convention center and malls, and maybe rethink what will occupy the medical mart site. Its mostly too late for that now. For now I will hope for the best

Hmm:

 

http://blog.cleveland.com/metro/2011/10/changeup_in_medical_mart_plans.html?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

 

Newspapers are proficient at selling fear, but lousy at predicting the future.

 

Let me know in a few years how everything turned out. Unless you work for the MMPI or major medical suppliers, there's nothing any of us can do about it anyway. So let's not let the latest attempt at selling more newspapers cause us to feel anything.

Im not sure how confident I am about the medical mart anymore. Im happy we are getting a new convention center. After more information comes out and If the medical mart seems like its going to be a complete bust, I almost wish the money would be directed into more focus on the convention center and malls, and maybe rethink what will occupy the medical mart site. Its mostly too late for that now. For now I will hope for the best

 

Again, do you know what a medical mart is? Really??!  Secondly, MMPI is a master at this all their centers are solid and generators of business and have expanded.  I dont think they will fuck us over by any means.

If MMPI just would've worked with Forest City, and crammed this thing into the back of TC, they could've switched to selling comic books and we would've never heard another word.  This witch hunt by the PD will continue for years until Forest City somehow receives their "fair share".

Somebody will always find or imply something negative to sell the newspapers.  I'd ge willing to bet some Chicago newspapers had doubts about the furniture mart when that concept was introduced.

If they can make a furniture mart work in High Point, NC, the MM in Cleveland has nothing to worry about.  I think the perception on here and in general is that the MM would be a success and fully occupied on opening day.  That is hardly ever the case. And we really don't know what is potentially in the works as far as future lessee's are concerned.  This will take time to cath-on and ramp up.

Ohhh!  I get it now, the Medical Mart is still moving along exactly as planned as sold to the taxpayers, and everything reported by the Plain Dealer is just fear-mongering?  I'm glad that's all cleared up and I feel much better about all of the free space being given away to tenants.  I'm also happy to be reminded that private entities taking on little risk using public moneys have never screwed up before.

Ohhh!  I get it now, the Medical Mart is still moving along exactly as planned as sold to the taxpayers, and everything reported by the Plain Dealer is just fear-mongering?  I'm glad that's all cleared up and I feel much better about all of the free space being given away to tenants.  I'm also happy to be reminded that private entities taking on little risk using public moneys have never screwed up before.

Ohhh!  I get it now, the Medical Mart is still moving along exactly as planned as sold to the taxpayers, and everything reported by the Plain Dealer is just fear-mongering?  I'm glad that's all cleared up and I feel much better about all of the free space being given away to tenants.  I'm also happy to be reminded that private entities taking on little risk using public moneys have never screwed up before.

 

Go ahead. Be afraid. What good is that going to do you, me or anyone else now? We're married, for richer or for poorer, and there isn't even the possibility of divorce here. So, to me, a more useful article for the PD to research, rather than write a big expose on that they got scooped by Scene, is how the community can make the best of it.

 

Shocking. A private business may have not told the full truth to yank free a shit-load of taxpayer dollars. This isn't news. It's normal.

 

One of my favorite stories is how Japan's first bullet train route was publicized as costing half of what its backers knew it would incur so the politicians wouldn't be afraid of sinking any tax dollars into an unproven concept. There was much worse public hyperbole and consequences to its backers than what we're seeing now with the MMCC. No one went to jail but a number of people lost their jobs, including the chief of the Japanese National Railways. And the project was such a "failure" that it reached its 10-year ridership goal in less than three years. By then, government leaders were so "remorseful" about their investment that seven more high-speed lines were built, and they changed life in Japan.

 

Had their backers not lied about the initial line's cost, Japan's bullet train would never have been built. Read the book "Old Man Thunder" sometime how huge public works projects get built. Or if you aren't into reading books, read this article of mine....

 

http://www.midwesthsr.org/where-is-our-old-man-thunder

 

None of this means the MMCC will be a success, anymore than it portends it will be a failure. What it does mean is that we have to take risks in order to have any chance of growing. If you were hoping for a silver bullet, they don't exist -- except maybe in Japan. ;-)

^I have admit, your post gives me borderline tea party sympathies.  Count me as someone who's not on board with the inevitability of the public getting fleeced on every big transaction. 

 

I really don't get this "fear mongering" charge.  I very much expect and want my local media to be highly skeptical anytime politicians sign us up to hand $800M in tax money to a private company for a speculative venture.  I take the point that it's too late to do anything about it right now on this transaction, but independent assessments of the project's progress are of legitimate public interest.  And pretty sure we can't trust MMPI or the county to be honest about it.

 

Anyway, we probably don't have re-argue "was this project worth it" every time news is posted about it.

At this point the convention center is all torn up, so we do have to finish that and roll with it.  But no one is forcing us build the Med Mart itself and I don't think we should.  All of its remaining goals can be met with existing office space.  Instead, we should consider putting a new county admin building on that site, using the same money.  It could even span the whole block.  Those would be some big floors, just what the county seems to need.  Alternatively, we could use the Med Mart Money to better integrate the new CC with Amtrak and the WFL, a concept MMPI has openly opposed.  This project no longer revolves around the core reason for MMPI's involvement.  We don't need a consulting firm to schedule a bunch of continuing ed seminars.  Let's part ways with them and do something useful while we still can. 

^I'd be surprised if the county had the right to walk away.  I think we're paying MMPI $600K+ per month until the contract expires or they fail to meet the CC occupancy benchmarks.  Not sure how ambitious those benchmarks are or how they measure up to what was promised.

I can agree that MMPI should at the least have to make a presentation as to why a separate building for the MM needs to and should be constructed.  Seems like that money *might* be better suited by improving the plans for the CC or the Malls or PA. 

 

But I am not saying this from a 'tax payer outrage', but rather just a practical, standpoint.  After all, it is not like this project is being funded solely by Cuyahoga County taxpayers (before responding with outrage to that comment, think about it for a minute).  And I still think the overall project is worth the bill, MM or not.

^Are you referring to MMPI's own investment in the project?

^I have admit, your post gives me borderline tea party sympathies.  Count me as someone who's not on board with the inevitability of the public getting fleeced on every big transaction. 

 

I really don't get this "fear mongering" charge.  I very much expect and want my local media to be highly skeptical anytime politicians sign us up to hand $800M in tax money to a private company for a speculative venture.  I take the point that it's too late to do anything about it right now on this transaction, but independent assessments of the project's progress are of legitimate public interest.  And pretty sure we can't trust MMPI or the county to be honest about it.

 

Anyway, we probably don't have re-argue "was this project worth it" every time news is posted about it.

 

Better get on board.

 

It's lonely being a Libertarian.

 

Look, every public/private sector joint venture is a boondogle.  If there weren't benefits external to the market system so as to justify the public investment, private industry would just raise the capital and do it themselves.  The only real issue with these things is just how much is the public going to lose?  Sometimes the external benefits flow to the public, sometimes to the polotician's cronies, sometimes it is a mix.

 

Unfortunatley, you can't sell stuff to the taxpayers that way-they can't handle the truth.

 

 

 

TEdolph

The fact that there are people on this board that are anything less than outraged by the recent news of the Medical Mart is shocking. This educational platform was not the arrangement that was agreed upon early on, and this change is hardly a slight deviation. Considering Hagan of all people is now questioning the legitimacy of the project, and he was easily the Med Mart's number one supporter and pusher, we should very much be troubled and unnerved and outraged by the MMPI's duplicity.

 

There are a lot of projects in Cleveland over the past twenty years that were publicly financed with fantastic visions of resulting economic booms and multiplier effects and gentrification and retail and restaurants popping up everywhere. But let's face it, Gateway isn't Wrigleyville; Flats line is a bigger scam than the Detroit people mover; Rock & Roll stadium is not remotely the draw we were assured; Browns stadium sits empty 350 days a year with virtually nothing of note around it; Euclid Corridor is still in its infancy but you can definitely argue both ways about it being a success or a bomb so far; yadda yadda.

 

My point: we keep getting these promises with our tax dollars, they never ever seem to come to fruition, and we should be upset instead of justifying everything i.e. oh, the Flats will run to capacity when the current project is finished, or we would have lost the Indians and Cavs if not for the Gateway District. But that justification is getting old, and with the Med Mart, it's really alarming to see both the project, which was somewhat unclear to begin with, radically altering without informing the public (thank god for the PD here) and second, that there are people saying these changes are no big deal when they absolutely are. This is our money for god's sake!

 

Reading some of these comments, it's like an abused wife looking for reasons to stay in the marriage instead of just flat out saying 'We got screwed and we need renumeration'. Sometimes you have to acknowledge that we got f&*&$d

The fact that there are people on this board that are anything less than outraged by the recent news of the Medical Mart is shocking. This educational platform was not the arrangement that was agreed upon early on, and this change is hardly a slight deviation. Considering Hagan of all people is now questioning the legitimacy of the project, and he was easily the Med Mart's number one supporter and pusher, we should very much be troubled and unnerved and outraged by the MMPI's duplicity.

 

There are a lot of projects in Cleveland over the past twenty years that were publicly financed with fantastic visions of resulting economic booms and multiplier effects and gentrification and retail and restaurants popping up everywhere. But let's face it, Gateway isn't Wrigleyville; Flats line is a bigger scam than the Detroit people mover; Rock & Roll stadium is not remotely the draw we were assured; Browns stadium sits empty 350 days a year with virtually nothing of note around it; Euclid Corridor is still in its infancy but you can definitely argue both ways about it being a success or a bomb so far; yadda yadda.

 

My point: we keep getting these promises with our tax dollars, they never ever seem to come to fruition, and we should be upset instead of justifying everything i.e. oh, the Flats will run to capacity when the current project is finished, or we would have lost the Indians and Cavs if not for the Gateway District. But that justification is getting old, and with the Med Mart, it's really alarming to see both the project, which was somewhat unclear to begin with, radically altering without informing the public (thank god for the PD here) and second, that there are people saying these changes are no big deal when they absolutely are. This is our money for god's sake!

 

Reading some of these comments, it's like an abused wife looking for reasons to stay in the marriage instead of just flat out saying 'We got screwed and we need renumeration'. Sometimes you have to acknowledge that we got f&*&$d

 

Maybe it is time to realize that the prime mover of an economy is private enterprise and while govenment can maybe help a little-it is grossly inefficient from an econmomic point of view and the best thing for it to do is get out of the way?

 

TEdolph

Euclid Corridor is still in its infancy but you can definitely argue both ways about it being a success or a bomb so far

You absolutely cannot. It's a success.

 

 

MMPI is on the hook for all cost over runs, but can keep any profits from the venture.

Convention centers are not profitable, but MMPI thinks they can make the center profitable. 

They also ponied up $20 Million, roughly the cost of the Medical Mart, to partner in this.

 

Just please wait to panic a few months before they open, until then cut them some slack.  The Plain Dealer has always treated them like "outsiders"

I am sure giving some free space away will incentivize people who are on the fence to sign the lease before it fills up

if MMPI is giving away free space in The Medical Mart complex all this does is cut into their profit margin. This doesn't seem too come up in any of the debate. 

The PD can't stop this project, or even the next project. If this project proves to be a massive failure, then the public's reaction is what could stop the next project. But we are in the what-if stage, and to form opinions based on that is to prejudge it. And that's not fair. The only fair response is to judge projects, like people, one at a time. And it's WAY too early to come to any conclusions.

 

And if we waited for private enterprise to build everything, our quality of life would be far less advanced. A private enterprise doesn't build things to benefit the public. It builds things to benefit itself and its investors.

At this point the convention center is all torn up, so we do have to finish that and roll with it.  But no one is forcing us build the Med Mart itself and I don't think we should.  All of its remaining goals can be met with existing office space.  Instead, we should consider putting a new county admin building on that site, using the same money.  It could even span the whole block.  Those would be some big floors, just what the county seems to need.  Alternatively, we could use the Med Mart Money to better integrate the new CC with Amtrak and the WFL, a concept MMPI has openly opposed.  This project no longer revolves around the core reason for MMPI's involvement.  We don't need a consulting firm to schedule a bunch of continuing ed seminars.  Let's part ways with them and do something useful while we still can. 

 

I like the way you think!