I am sure giving some free space away will incentivize people who are on the fence to sign the lease before it fills up

 

I don't know if I agree with that.  I think giving free space away could potentially devalue the space.  I'm not sure it will raise the demand on the remaining space.

Reminder: Mr Casey was quoted as saying (in the 9/28/11 Scene article) that "in two or three months, everything will make sense," so by the end of the year we will all achieve enlightenment.  Standing by!    :-D

Business conditions change therefore MMPI must change it marketing and planning.  Companies are not spending capital right now. Commiting to leasing space a the MM is probably not a priority right now.  And even if the MM part is a failure, we have a brand new CC at the end of the day that can be used to attract other conventions (which is apparently what they are doing).  Remember, CLE has convention demand and the new CC will enable the region to satisfy that.  I seriously doubt that MMPI would have commited to this had they not expected success.  I'm sure they did research to assess the level of demand for such a mart. The local press was not exactly supportive of this venture from the get-go and anything potentially negative must have them salivating.  Trust but verify as they say, but don't be in such as hurry to write this off as a failure. 

^Are you referring to MMPI's own investment in the project?

 

Nope.  Let me put it this way, my Dad (who lives in Charlotte) has unwittingly contributed to this project on more than a few occasions.

^Ah, right, the bed tax.  I don't have the numbers in front of me, but I think its only a small fraction of the project's financing.

An article from last spring that's worth reading, and suggests a future direction for the MMCC..........

 

From Rust to Riches: Medical Device Manufacturing in Ohio’s Northeast

Author:  Bob Michaels

 

With an established industrial infrastructure, a growing network of medical device startups, and renowned research institutes, Cleveland is poised to become one of the nation’s major medical device manufacturing centers

 

 

Decades of industrial decline have taken a toll on Ohio, one of the hardest-hit Rust Belt states. Between 1990 and 2007, for example, Ohio’s manufacturing employment fell more rapidly than the nation’s as a whole, plunging from approximately 22% in 1990 to about 14% in 2007. The Great Recession beginning in late 2007 wreaked further havoc, causing manufacturing employment to fall 12% from mid-2008 to mid-2010.

 

But dismal statistics and grim portents for the state’s future notwithstanding, at least one economic branch is flourishing between the Ohio River in the south and Lake Erie in the north: the medical device industry. And fueling this hothouse growth is the state’s northeast—with the old manufacturing city of Cleveland at its heart. If the last few years are any indication, this region’s burgeoning medical device manufacturing capability may yet help the Buckeye State to sand off the old rust.

 

READ MORE AT:

http://www.qmed.com/mpmn/article/rust-riches-medical-device-manufacturing-ohio%E2%80%99s-northeast

^Ah, right, the bed tax.  I don't have the numbers in front of me, but I think its only a small fraction of the project's financing.

 

That too.  I was actually thinking of the sales tax.  You buy something in Cuyahoga County for $100, regardless if you are a resident of Cuyahoga County or not, you are going to contribute about a quarter towards this project. 

I am sure giving some free space away will incentivize people who are on the fence to sign the lease before it fills up

 

I don't know if I agree with that.  I think giving free space away could potentially devalue the space.  I'm not sure it will raise the demand on the remaining space.

 

Again, I'll ask, do you have any idea what a Merchandise Mart is?  You cannot compare this type of space with traditional office space for lease.

 

I think some people are jumping the gun and asking for construction to stop, without having all the details or a full understanding of the functions of a merchandise mart and it's niche/unique leasing.

And after reading the article which I just posted here (now on the prior page), when the media complains that only local companies are signing up I realize that's actually a good thing. That will give them much greater exposure to a much larger market and promote this region's medical/health care manufacturing prowess. This could accomplish two things: 1. encourage more out-of-town companies to sign up and 2. encourage more out-of-town companies to establish manufacturing operations here.

^It may be a good thing for those local companies (especially if it's free space), but if improving their prospects is now the main focus of the MedMart, it's a radical departure from MMPI's and the county's business plan.  Doesn't mean it's bad, just means it wasn't what the commissioners signed on to and due diligenced.

Not so sure about that Strap.... the "radical departure" comment.  I seem to remember reading quite a bit about the MM acting as an incubator for biomed companies in the Cleveland area.

 

On a related note, the outrage on this board has not yet hit Columbia Bldg proportions.  Step your game up, guys.

^MMPI was pretty explicit all along that this was first and foremost about revving up our hospitality industry, though you're right, there has always been the hope for less direct "secondary effect" if Cleveland's reputation as a medical mecca took off.  But small local businesses in the med mart is really not much of a sweetner for convention business, I'll wager, so I still think it would be a pretty big break from the original plan.

 

This PD article nicely summarizes the pitch: http://www.cleveland.com/medicalmart/index.ssf/2009/03/mart_backers_goal_make_clevela.html

 

[note this part which is consistent with the recent news (though I doubt anyone who read this was thinking Tri-C): "The pump primer: MMPI pledges $19 million of its own money for huge rent discounts to land the first 25 mart tenants. Some may be existing tenants at its furniture and merchandise marts."]

 

I'm not remotely outraged, just slightly worried that at the end of the day we'll still have the highest sales tax in the state but not a lot of extra economic umph (or enough downtown improvement) to show for it.  And slightly annoyed we didn't toss out the commissioners a decade earlier.  It's not going to keep me up at night though, because like most of us here, I place a much higher value on the shiny new stuff than most county residents.  Once we find a way to raise and spend even more money to actually build something on the Malls, I'll be a happy guy.

I am sure giving some free space away will incentivize people who are on the fence to sign the lease before it fills up

 

I don't know if I agree with that.  I think giving free space away could potentially devalue the space.  I'm not sure it will raise the demand on the remaining space.

 

Again, I'll ask, do you have any idea what a Merchandise Mart is?  You cannot compare this type of space with traditional office space for lease.

 

I think some people are jumping the gun and asking for construction to stop, without having all the details or a full understanding of the functions of a merchandise mart and it's niche/unique leasing.

 

I'm sure I have a better idea of what it is than a majority of those who are blindly supporting it and hoping that our government leaders and the developers aren't going to screw it up.  That's certainly not stopping them from entering the discussion, now is it?

Not so sure about that Strap.... the "radical departure" comment.  I seem to remember reading quite a bit about the MM acting as an incubator for biomed companies in the Cleveland area.

 

On a related note, the outrage on this board has not yet hit Columbia Bldg proportions.  Step your game up, guys.

 

From the MedMart website:

"With the ability to conduct business more efficiently, Cleveland MMCC is the new home for healthcare clinicians, suppliers, purchasers, specifiers, service providers and administrators worldwide."

I wasn't saying that was the focus.  I was just saying that it was always in the discussion, at least as far back as I have been following the story.

"The discussion" was broad, but so what.  The selling point wasn't.  The selling point was a retail model similar to the furniture version.  That retail model was going to drive convention traffic, as well as its own traffic.  The presence of so many buyers would then help to build our local device and biomed industries.  While the continuing ed theme is a nice one, and likely to generate traffic, the retail element was key to delivering more than just hospitality growth.  Education doesn't move products.  We didn't hire an education company to run this thing, or even a convention center company.  We hired a retail company.  The plan unmistakably revolved around selling merchandise.

 

It's not clear why we need a new building (or a new CC) for this new plan.  And I don't think the county ever intended to buy a medical school run by furniture salesmen.  Hagan has already suggested as much.  If the contract was worded broadly enough for MMPI's product to be whatever MMPI feels like delivering, that would be quite a screw up on our end.  Hopefully not, and hopefully Fitzgerald has people poring over that contract to figure out what our options are. 

The fact that there are people on this board that are anything less than outraged by the recent news of the Medical Mart is shocking. This educational platform was not the arrangement that was agreed upon early on, and this change is hardly a slight deviation. Considering Hagan of all people is now questioning the legitimacy of the project, and he was easily the Med Mart's number one supporter and pusher, we should very much be troubled and unnerved and outraged by the MMPI's duplicity.

 

There are a lot of projects in Cleveland over the past twenty years that were publicly financed with fantastic visions of resulting economic booms and multiplier effects and gentrification and retail and restaurants popping up everywhere. But let's face it, Gateway isn't Wrigleyville; Flats line is a bigger scam than the Detroit people mover; Rock & Roll stadium is not remotely the draw we were assured; Browns stadium sits empty 350 days a year with virtually nothing of note around it; Euclid Corridor is still in its infancy but you can definitely argue both ways about it being a success or a bomb so far; yadda yadda.

 

My point: we keep getting these promises with our tax dollars, they never ever seem to come to fruition, and we should be upset instead of justifying everything i.e. oh, the Flats will run to capacity when the current project is finished, or we would have lost the Indians and Cavs if not for the Gateway District. But that justification is getting old, and with the Med Mart, it's really alarming to see both the project, which was somewhat unclear to begin with, radically altering without informing the public (thank god for the PD here) and second, that there are people saying these changes are no big deal when they absolutely are. This is our money for god's sake!

 

Reading some of these comments, it's like an abused wife looking for reasons to stay in the marriage instead of just flat out saying 'We got screwed and we need renumeration'. Sometimes you have to acknowledge that we got f&*&$d

 

True that. This is a hard, honest look at where we are and it does suck.

 

 

I'm confused.  Is it just the usual, par for the course going overboard panic button reactionaries.... or will there not be any retail component in the MM?

I'm confused.  Is it just the usual, par for the course going overboard panic button reactionaries.... or will there not be any retail component in the MM?

 

There was never planned for one.  Marts are wholesale operations, which at times are open to the general public.

I'm confused.  Is it just the usual, par for the course going overboard panic button reactionaries.... or will there not be any retail component in the MM?

 

Great question. The Scene article seems to make a logical case of why the retail component isn't workable. At this point I'm just a bit shocked by how this is playing out.

 

Unlike with other mechandise ie furniture or electronics, the greater public at large has absolutely no interest in syringes or MRI equipment. I always wondered how that aspect might put MM at a disadvantage in relation to the other Marts.

 

 

I'm confused.  Is it just the usual, par for the course going overboard panic button reactionaries.... or will there not be any retail component in the MM?

 

There was never planned for one.  Marts are wholesale operations, which at times are open to the general public.

 

Agreed, I think "retail" is the wrong word.  But the mix between product vendors and medical education seems to be what's in flux.  It's not really a mart at all if the critical mass of vendors isn't there.  Ultimately, I really don't care what's in the building if really does fill the convention center with a constant flow of out-of-town guests, because that's the only real benefit (beyond downtown beautification) I ever expected.  It just seems somewhat more likely now that MMPI's mart expertise may be an irrelevancy and that we may not end up being so distinguishable from the long list of peer convention cities struggling to fill their centers.  At least not till we get the sky-walks to the casino.  I kid.  Until it happens.

dear lord.... everyone really needs to re. l. a. x.

 

not to channel mts but does anyone have any idea how a "mart" works? it is not retail. in my "previous life", i went to some. You don't go and buy anything. you go and learn about product offerings... and then go home. and then if you like what you saw, you call a rep. there has to be an educational component, and I believe we are talking about giving space to 3 educational institutions for free out of how many spaces? 60? 70?

 

I think in one of those articles the mmpi guy said something along the lines that he thought his comments were being blown out of proportion. I agree.

dear lord.... everyone really needs to re. l. a. x.

 

not to channel mts but does anyone have any idea how a "mart" works? it is not retail. in my "previous life", i went to some. You don't go and buy anything. you go and learn about product offerings... and then go home. and then if you like what you saw, you call a rep. there has to be an educational component, and I believe we are talking about giving space to 3 educational institutions for free out of how many spaces? 60? 70?

 

I think in one of those articles the mmpi guy said something along the lines that he thought his comments were being blown out of proportion. I agree.

 

You can channel me anytime!  The Mayor gave a simplied experience at a Mart.  One of the only times the general public can come into a Mart to buy goods is when they have an "open house" that coincides with an industry event/conference or when they are changing out products line.  (TIP:  For those renovating a home, this is the best time to get HIGH END goods at rock bottom prices.)

 

dear lord.... everyone really needs to re. l. a. x.

 

not to channel mts but does anyone have any idea how a "mart" works? it is not retail. in my "previous life", i went to some. You don't go and buy anything. you go and learn about product offerings... and then go home. and then if you like what you saw, you call a rep. there has to be an educational component, and I believe we are talking about giving space to 3 educational institutions for free out of how many spaces? 60? 70?

 

I think in one of those articles the mmpi guy said something along the lines that he thought his comments were being blown out of proportion. I agree.

 

I dont know, in another article he is quoted as (agreeing) that its likely at least 50%, which was news to the other supporters. 

 

So if its just us not knowing how a Mart works then why is pretty much everyone else involved in the project in the dark and surprised by this....  Isnt MM supposed to know how a Mart would work? 

this isn't about the mart not having a retail component. It's about the Mart not having a reason for being. By MMPI's own admission, the concept is flawed.

 

I'm with 327 that we need to re-think what the point of the MM building is going to be, if we even need it. The agreement with MMPI needs to be re-opened as well. MMPI is giving me an oatmeal raisin cookie when they sold me chocolate chip, and they're trying to tell me it's the same thing because both are brown with little dark things in them.

 

We don't need MMPI just to operate a convention center. Positively Cleveland can do that just fine, and for terms far less onerous than those with MMPI.

The confusion about what a mart is is a red herring.  Condensed, collected summary:

 

The overarching concern is that MMPI is having trouble attracting a critical mass of high quality vendors that are crucial for a medical mart model to work.  The weak list of LOI tenants kicked off that concern (this was listed as a tenant, no joke: http://alscourt.com/).  The educational focus buzz is just the latest part of that concern.  It is definitely early in the game and MMPI was candid from the beginning that it would offer free space to meet its early performance benchmarks.  Definitely no reason to panic at this point.  Never too early for healthy skepticism though, as long as it doesn't undermine the chance for success, and despite the fact there's nothing we can do to change the project for the time being even if we wanted to.  Anything more hysterical or more confident is speculation.  We should know a lot more in a few months per MMPI's man the ground.  In the mean time, we have construction to watch: http://www.clevelandmedicalmart.com/about/live-web-cam/

thats fine... but we reach a point when the healthy skeptism has been drawn out about as far as it can go. The same people on whichever side of the opinion fence they stand can only hash and rehash their same comments so many times before we just continue to run in circles with everyone stating their same opinion (which i'm guessing won't change any time over the next 18 months or so until opening). I think we are reaching that point... a few pages worth.

 

One thing I am pretty sure of, is that no amount of talk on urban ohio is going to halt work at the medmart convention center. as since no one has a crystal ball, and this is being built, we might as well just see how things shape out.

Cleveland's guilty until proven innocent mentality is well illustrated in this thread.

^^Agreed.  A web sociologist would have a field day with threads like this.  Much of the repetition is in response to people caricaturing arguments (on both sides), either accidentally or disingenuously, which tends to invite defensiveness, clarification and...repetition.  Which is boring for everyone.

 

^For example.

^Hey, I just glad the alledged lack of parking around CSU did not creep into the thread :-)

Really? You all thought that little of my cookie analogy? I thought it was clever. Nobody likes oatmeal raisin cookies, but they make you eat it because it's 'better' for you! Eh?

 

I am guilty of regurgitating my argument ad nauseum on this thread, which isn't something I typically look to do. I'll stop now. Probably better for my blood pressure anyway.

^You got one of those slight chuckles from me AJ.... and I might just steal it for future use in other settings.

^^If you're lucky, they'll have both kinds of cookies at the med mart outpost of Al's Courtyard Cafe.

OK, can we please move on to news to report about this as a CONSTRUCTION project, which it still is and will be for many months?

 

If there is no construction news or progress to report or photograph, then it's past time to let this thread quiet down (which is better than an involuntary lock-down).

OMG, this thread makes me ill. Where is the ban hammer when you need it. All I can say is alot of you got "hooked" by one article in the scene and then a copycat one in the peedee. What, 19Action News and Harry Boomer didn't want any of this?

What I don't understand is that if this Medical Mart was a big money-maker, why is there any need at all for the taxpayers to step in and fund it?  I mean wouldn't private companies be tripping over themselves to take on the financial risk to be the ones to bring such a concept to this city?

 

The convention center I understand for the most part.

What I don't understand is that if this Medical Mart was a big money-maker, why is there any need at all for the taxpayers to step in and fund it?  I mean wouldn't private companies be tripping over themselves to take on the financial risk to be the ones to bring such a concept to this city?

 

The convention center I understand for the most part.

 

People, this is a public-private PARTNERSHIP. MMPI is on the hook financially too

That's true, but it's really not a partnership when one side is paying the other for a service.  The deal doesn't revolve around them owing money.  Instead we give them money and they're obligated to do something... something they now say can't be done as promised.  Like Darth Vader at dinner, they are altering the deal.  But we can do more than pray they don't alter it any further.  The county isn't powerless in this, and no medical mart has been built yet.  The future is not set in stone.

 

I agree that every point has pretty much been made on this story.  Obviously I don't agree that it should be forgotten or ignored, but I doubt we've heard the last of it anyway.   

 

 

Pre-dic-shaun

 

MMPI will build. MMPI will fail to meet benchmarks. MMPI is GONE. We have a new Convention Center.  Developer steps in gets MM+ County Admin Bldg. CASINO!  FCE gets nice payoff from Gilbert. County consolidates facilities. County Admin signs long lease with FCE.

Almost everybody's happy.

^You forgot the the necessary step that would need to be taken to get approval for a casino to be built on that site.  Not gonna happen.  We will never build a casino on plot.

^Yes for the simple reason that it would require a constitutional amendment (vote of entire state) as happen in Columbus which wanted to move their casino to the west side of the city from downtown after the first referendum.  Things are not easy as they seem or you or others would like.

So just to recap

 

The positives:

-A brand new convention center, one that was talked about for over 20 years,

-Renovated existing convention center, Renovated Public Hall

-Upgraded Mall

-New Westin Hotel(s), and potential for other hotel developments (shared spin off with Casino)

-Marketing buzz of world's first "Medical Mart"

-A convention center operator that has incentive to keep the facility booked all year, since they get to keep the profits

-The construction is so far on time and on budget

 

The negatives:

-Free space was given to CSU and CCC for an educational area in the Medical Mart

-The Medical Mart is not 100% leased 25 months before opening

 

 

So just to recap

 

The positives:

-A brand new convention center, one that was talked about for over 20 years,

-Renovated existing convention center, Renovated Public Hall

-Upgraded Mall

-New Westin Hotel(s), and potential for other hotel developments (co-shared spin off with Casino)

-Marketing buzz of world's first "Medical Mart"

-A convention center operator that has incentive to keep the facility booked all year, since they get to keep the profits-The construction is so far on time and on budget

 

The negatives:

-Free space was given to CSU and CCC for an educational area in the Medical Mart

-The Medical Mart is not 100% leased 25 months before opening

 

 

Pretty good summation, especially in bold.

Fitzgerald says plans for medical mart have NOT changed

 

Fitzgerald held a meeting today with the Medical Mart's leadership team.

 

"What they have assured us is that any space they end up using for local educational institutions, whether it's Cleveland State or Case or Tri-C or whatever it is, it will not take away from the fundamental mission of providing space for medical equipment," said Fitzgerald.

 

Read more: http://www.newsnet5.com/dpp/news/local_news/fitzgerald-says-plans-for-medical-mart-have-not-changed#ixzz1ap5Ov7LL

Well, alright then.

Here is an article from Inside Business magazine from June, 2009 just before construction started.

 

It shows that MMPI had a plan from the beginning, and is sticking to its plan

 

 

MMPI's eventual goal is to attract 60 medical trade shows and 100 smaller medical conferences to Cleveland every year – 10 percent and 5 percent, respectively, of all such events in the country. That, Falanga estimates, would mean 300,000 visitors to Cleveland, spending $330 million a year in the city....

 

However, no one expects the project to meet MMPI's goal right away. Starting the Medical Mart – getting the first manufacturers to lease showrooms – will be the greatest challenge.

 

"We believe we will need to subsidize those showrooms heavily to get them to try something new," Falanga told a Cleveland City Council committee in February.

 

Bookings may start slow, but will build on each other, Falanga predicts. "It's going to take many years for this to ramp up," he says, "for Cleveland to prove itself to the medical community."

 

The venture's worst-case scenario is spelled out in MMPI's agreement with the county. If the company can't book five medical trade shows and lease 10 showrooms within a year, the county can back out. In a moderately bad scenario – if the mart and center book a steady but meager stream of traffic – the county could reduce MMPI's annual fee for managing the facility. In the most severe situations, the county could fire MMPI and void its lease.

 

http://www.ibmag.com/Main/Archive/Affairs_of_the_Mart_11372.aspx

 

From Crain's:

 

Cuyahoga County creates panel to work with convention center/med mart developer 

By JAY MILLER

 

Cuyahoga County Executive Ed FitzGerald has announced the creation of a panel to work with the developer of the new Cleveland convention center and medical mart project.

Mr. FitzGerald, in a telephone interview with Crain's, said the role of the group, which includes Mr. FitzGerald, Cleveland Mayor Frank Jackson and other civic and medical leaders, will be to review the business and marketing plans of project manager MMPI Inc. and “to help develop reasonable performance benchmarks” for the MMPI sales and marketing staff.

 

“It's formalizing (a) relationship that should exist” with the region's major medical institutions, Mr. FitzGerald said. He said he believes those institutions can use their clout to help attract tenants to the medical mart and conventions to the convention center.

 

http://www.crainscleveland.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20111020/FREE/111029969

 

(edit: formatting)

He's right, those relationships are a given and should already be established.  Same with benchmarks, really.  I thought we already had those.  So does this mean the benchmarks will change?  If so, will they change up or down?

He's right, those relationships are a given and should already be established.  Same with benchmarks, really.  I thought we already had those.  So does this mean the benchmarks will change?  If so, will they change up or down?

Thats what I was thinking...

http://www.medcitynews.com/2011/10/nashville-medical-mart-pushes-back-opening-date/?edition=ohio

 

Nashville medical mart pushes back opening date

 

 

The property developers behind Nashville’s medical mart have finally publicly admitted what’s been obvious for awhile — the project isn’t going to hit its slated opening date of 2013.