I took a spin around town yesterday to get a quick and up close look at the ongoing projects. Stopped by the Mart for a bit.

 

Right now it looks like the east facing, main entryway is going to be stunning; by far the most interesting and engaging part of the building imho.

 

One of my pet peeves in CLE are north/lake facing buildings which do not capitalize on the views. Medical Mart will be in this category, the window to wall ratio is pretty low. However, I think it's fairly likely that the planners envisioned a new, larger building would be built just north, blocking the lake views anyhow.

 

 

 

 

I agree with you, but the group plan building were as such that they dont allow that.  But where I disagree, please remember what the main use of this particular facility.  I know the majority of you have never been into a merchandise mart, but they are big bland boxes, that are customized by each owner.  They generally have few if no windows. 

But how old is your building?

 

 

My building was built the same year I was.

 

"Choose your next witticism carefully Mr. Bond. It may be your last." -- Goldfinger

Ken, neither of us would be considered "new" construction, nor would your building.

 

I'm guessing that a well engineered facility could have a water feature on the roof with little chance of leaking even if it were exposed to the winter in Cleveland. On the other hand, if a water feature were designed by an artist just to look pretty, it might be beautiful but leak just like the pool in your building was probably designed by a building manager, contractor or architect without the proper engineering knowledge and experience. I don't recall hearing about any leaks in the garage under mall A and it has had a water feature for years.

But how old is your building?

 

 

My building was built the same year I was.

 

"Choose your next witticism carefully Mr. Bond. It may be your last." -- Goldfinger

Ken, neither of us would be considered "new" construction, nor would your building.

 

I'm guessing that a well engineered facility could have a water feature on the roof with little chance of leaking even if it were exposed to the winter in Cleveland. On the other hand, if a water feature were designed by an artist just to look pretty, it might be beautiful but leak just like the pool in your building was probably designed by a building manager, contractor or architect without the proper engineering knowledge and experience. I don't recall hearing about any leaks in the garage under mall A and it has had a water feature for years.

 

Thats because the Mall A feature was repaired and refurbished when Society tower was built.  It has been maintained and operated by Jacobs and the Key Tower.

I took a spin around town yesterday to get a quick and up close look at the ongoing projects. Stopped by the Mart for a bit.

 

Right now it looks like the east facing, main entryway is going to be stunning; by far the most interesting and engaging part of the building imho.

 

One of my pet peeves in CLE are north/lake facing buildings which do not capitalize on the views. Medical Mart will be in this category, the window to wall ratio is pretty low. However, I think it's fairly likely that the planners envisioned a new, larger building would be built just north, blocking the lake views anyhow.

 

 

 

 

I agree with you, but the group plan building were as such that they dont allow that.  But where I disagree, please remember what the main use of this particular facility.  I know the majority of you have never been into a merchandise mart, but they are big bland boxes, that are customized by each owner.  They generally have few if no windows. 

 

Good point.

 

Re: future construction at the current County Admin building...didn't some plans call for large hotel space there? Maybe I'm not remembering right. But that would surely block Med Mart on the north side.

The actual Med-Mart showrooms which is on the 5th floor of the facility actually has no widows at all, since it is strictly for "showrooms", so they really want a controlled environment. 

 

Well a convention hotel was identified as the most likely use for the spot due to its proximity and ability to connect with the facilities.  Whether or not that would materialize is likely dependent on how successful they are in drawing people and shows etc. 

 

The actual Med-Mart showrooms which is on the 5th floor of the facility actually has no widows at all, since it is strictly for "showrooms", so they really want a controlled environment. 

 

Well a convention hotel was identified as the most likely use for the spot due to its proximity and ability to connect with the facilities.  Whether or not that would materialize is likely dependent on how successful they are in drawing people and shows etc. 

 

 

I have to believe that the pending walkway bridge to the Lakefront makes that spot even more desirable for a hotel. That's got to be some valuable real estate the County is vacating.

The actual Med-Mart showrooms which is on the 5th floor of the facility actually has no widows at all, since it is strictly for "showrooms", so they really want a controlled environment. 

 

Well a convention hotel was identified as the most likely use for the spot due to its proximity and ability to connect with the facilities.  Whether or not that would materialize is likely dependent on how successful they are in drawing people and shows etc. 

 

Showrooms are on floors 2-5, not just 5.  However, you're correct they do want a controlled environment, as they will change at least 2 a year.

 

With the open atrium, and show rooms on 3 sides, instead of 4, I have a suspicion the building was built not only to view the mall but to improve chances for an addition.

 

The actual Med-Mart showrooms which is on the 5th floor of the facility actually has no widows at all, since it is strictly for "showrooms", so they really want a controlled environment. 

 

Well a convention hotel was identified as the most likely use for the spot due to its proximity and ability to connect with the facilities.  Whether or not that would materialize is likely dependent on how successful they are in drawing people and shows etc. 

 

Showrooms are on floors 2-5, not just 5.  However, you're correct they do want a controlled environment, as they will change at least 2 a year.

 

With the open atrium, and show rooms on 3 sides, instead of 4, I have a suspicion the building was built not only to view the mall but to improve chances for an addition.

 

I thought 2-5 as well, but I was just going by the graphic here.

http://www.clevelandmedicalmart.com/about/architecture/

 

 

The actual Med-Mart showrooms which is on the 5th floor of the facility actually has no widows at all, since it is strictly for "showrooms", so they really want a controlled environment. 

 

Well a convention hotel was identified as the most likely use for the spot due to its proximity and ability to connect with the facilities.  Whether or not that would materialize is likely dependent on how successful they are in drawing people and shows etc. 

 

Showrooms are on floors 2-5, not just 5.  However, you're correct they do want a controlled environment, as they will change at least 2 a year.

 

With the open atrium, and show rooms on 3 sides, instead of 4, I have a suspicion the building was built not only to view the mall but to improve chances for an addition.

 

I thought 2-5 as well, but I was just going by the graphic here.

http://www.clevelandmedicalmart.com/about/architecture/

 

 

 

Boo-Boo.....The entire building is showrooms, with exception to the ballroom.  LOL

I am surprised that nobody said this already, but they started to put up the floor to ceiling windows on the grand ballroom facing the lake, of the Convention Center this week.

Nice

I am surprised that nobody said this already, but they started to put up the floor to ceiling windows on the grand ballroom facing the lake, of the Convention Center this week.

 

Right! Noticed that on the drive in today. The windows look great. Visually prominent and I imagine the views from inside CC are going to be outstanding.

 

In other window news, they're stacking them up inside another prominent structure arising along the Shoreway.

I drove past both the Medmart & FEB projects today at lunch.  Up close, the progress of both is very impressive.

I drove past both the Medmart & FEB projects today at lunch.  Up close, the progress of both is very impressive.

And no pictures??

I know, it's beautiful out.  My phone takes lousy pictures and I didn't have my camera. 

I know, it's beautiful out.  My phone takes lousy pictures and I didn't have my camera. 

 

Excuses...excuses.    To the gallows with you!

I know, it's beautiful out.  My phone takes lousy pictures and I didn't have my camera. 

 

Excuses...excuses.    To the gallows with you!

 

 

+1    :-D

http://www.clevelandmedicalmart.com/clevelandmedicalmart/index.cfm/about/live-web-cam/

From this afternoon...

 

Bu-tee-full!

Hello everyone,

 

I am fairly new to this site and am currently writing my Master's Capstone (kind of like a thesis) on the Medical Mart/Convention Center. The synapsis of my paper follows:

 

"A case study on the process of change using large, semi-public projects in other cities (possibly the Merchandise Mart in Chicago, among others) as a comparative analysis to the Cleveland Medical Mart. Using an economic development framework (this part of the paper could change..), the paper will investigate how other cities have made large visions with the capacity to change into successful, concrete projects, and how the Medical Mart can potentially adapt, harnessing the concept of sustainability to help assist in creating an overall "health and wellness" culture in Cleveland. The paper will explore the consequences of the politics surrounding the project, i.e. the effect of the corruption Jimmy Dimora had on the project and the new influence of Ed Fitzgerald, the controversy surrounding the Scene Magazine article and the apparent change in vision/strategy, and particularly how leaders can successfully capitalize on such a change in vision."

 

I would appreciate any and all advice anyone could give me in this endeavor, including resources, journal articles and advice on how to structure my paper. I should mention that I am aware of and exploring the Cleveland Group Plan (especially the YouTube video) and how that can be incorporated into the final vision.

 

I thank you in advance!!

Welcome to UO, and good luck on your project.  My only advice would be that it looks like you are covering a number of aspects related to this project, and that you might be better off if you keep it to one or two things- Economic Development, Politics of redevelopment, Sustainability, promoting a "health and wellness" culture, maybe some relationship between two things.  Believe me (voice of experience, here), the more moving pieces you put in, the more likely you'll have trouble wrapping the thing into a coherent whole and ultimately finishing it!

Not to get lost in the weeds, but....

 

As you can see, this thread was started nearly 10 years ago (by yours truly :) ) and at the time the convention center was already a 20 year discussion without a lot of results. 

Sometime around that time Peter Lewis of Progressive fame, who had been a benefactor of many Cleveland institutions, said he would not give out any more money unless Cleveland institutions started to collaborate and not be islands to themselves.  In my opinion, that was a catalyst for some of the institutions to look past their borders. 

At the Clinic, Floyd Loop (I think) retired from the CEO job, and Toby Cosgrove came in.  He was a more public face of the Clinic than his predecessors.  Among other things, he starred in a 'Believe in Cleveland" commercial, highlighting what would be called the Healthline.  It was called that thanks to him having the Clinic partner with University Hospitals to buy the naming rights to the line.

It was in that spirit that he approached the commissioners about the idea of a medical mart. 

Tim Hagan, one of the commissioners, was interested. He also had a friendship with the Kennedy family who ran MMPI.  So, he floated the idea to him and the MMPI people liked it.

 

 

I said all that to say this.  The convention center rebuild would not happen without the concept of the Medical Mart.  The Medical Mart would have never got off the ground without the strong backing of the Cleveland Clinic and the interest from MMPI.

 

Sounds to me like it's time for Peter B to make a re-appearance and put (more) money where mouth was...

See the red circle? That's the hotel component of the original Forest City proposal:

 

I would have preferred this design over the current one it add to the river and has a sort of uniqueness to it imo

See the red circle? That's the hotel component of the original Forest City proposal:

 

I would have preferred this design over the current one it add to the river and has a sort of uniqueness to it imo

 

Whats unique about our center is its location and design.  In every major city their convention center is a big box that sticks out like a sore them.  The CC center is hidden underground and there for not visually clutter in our city as you would find in say, DC, Philly, Atlanta, NoLa, Dallas or Houston.  They are also "dead zones". That it's hidden under the mall group plan is genius and unique at the same time.  No other city in the world can say that.

I was able to get a lot of pictures around the whole site yesterday.  Hope you enjoy!  One thing of note: As you can see Public Auditorium's mall side is being refurbished and already has completely new doors which look great.  The Lakeside entrance also seems to have brand new doors that seemed to me to be brand new copies of the historic originals.  However the E. 6th and St. Clair sides of the building are in pretty rough shape.  The doors are in terrible condition and there are other facade issues.  Im wondering, does the rehab of Public Hall end with just the Mall side and Lakeside Entrance?  I hope not!  It would be so disappointing.  I'm also curious what the Ballroom overlook will look like when competed since the railroad tracks are right in front of it.  Will there be some kind of barrier or landscaping?  Hopefully it will be something a little more exciting than its current state!

^ Great shots!

thanks...  great for us out of towners...

From what Ive read it sounds like there are no plans to upgrade the doors to Public Auditorium on the East 6th and St. Clair sides.  As you can see from my pics above, the new doors on Lakeside look great.  Why in the world can't they just upgrade the whole thing?

^I am just guessing but maybe the doors were put in place early in preparation for the RockHall inductions. If the others are not eventually replaced I can see where they would be restored in some way. Also I have not seen any indication that the E6th/St.Clair doors would be functional. Maybe as exits but not entrances.

I sure wish the E 6th awning facade was restored to its original glory

http://csudigitalhumanities.org/exhibits/items/show/4495

I sure wish the E 6th awning facade was restored to its original glory

http://csudigitalhumanities.org/exhibits/items/show/4495

 

Aside from the missing Central Armory at right (now THAT was a loss), that built environment hasn't changed much.

I sure wish the E 6th awning facade was restored to its original glory

http://csudigitalhumanities.org/exhibits/items/show/4495

 

Aside from the missing Central Armory at right (now THAT was a loss), that built environment hasn't changed much.

KJP why was it removed,  I'm trying to remember, but I thought it was do to reconstruction and updating when the cc and PA was joined with the CC

It is a bit complicated, but under the agreement with the city, county and MMPI, the city owns Public Hall, and the county/MMPI own the convention center.

As part of the deal, MMPI will pay for all of the costs to separate the two structures for things like electrical and HVAC.  Also, the new design for the CC, called for the removal of the 1960s addition.  So the removal and restoration of that facade was paid for by MMPI.

 

 

The hall will often times be "rented" by the CC for events that need it, so it will act like one structure, but it will have seperate utilities.

 

So, the city would have to pay for the awning on E. 6th, and I don't if that is a priority right now.  I just hope the city does not advocate a skyway from the hotel into the facade of Public Hall.

I would guess that that awning was removed to make it easier for deliveries to be made on E 6th. The loading docks for public hall are on that side.

It is a bit complicated, but under the agreement with the city, county and MMPI, the city owns Public Hall, and the county/MMPI own the convention center.

As part of the deal, MMPI will pay for all of the costs to separate the two structures for things like electrical and HVAC.  Also, the new design for the CC, called for the removal of the 1960s addition.  So the removal and restoration of that facade was paid for by MMPI.

 

 

The hall will often times be "rented" by the CC for events that need it, so it will act like one structure, but it will have seperate utilities.

 

So, the city would have to pay for the awning on E. 6th, and I don't if that is a priority right now.  I just hope the city does not advocate a skyway from the hotel into the facade of Public Hall.

 

Since when does MMPI own any part of the complex?  The center is owned by the county and MMPI is the exclusive manager.  If I am wrong or this has changed, please show me.  thanks.

 

IIRC, the Eastside was changed for trucking and shipping because the West side trucking entrance was eliminated when the 60's addition was built and rebuilt in the late 80s.

 

Why would we need a walkway?  When did that come up?  There is already a tunnel that goes from City Hall to the CC, they could just expand that.  BUT WHY WHEN THE DAMN HOTEL IS ACROSS THE STREET?  That proposal would make no sense!

MMPI is the owner of the complex.  After 20 years the ownership reverts back to the county, or if MMPI fails to meet its minimum commitments.

 

All the details are in this thread, spring of 2010 timeframe.

 

 

I'm no fan of the walkway idea.

^That's definitely right.  MMPI owns the complex, and then I believe leases it back to the city, who then subleases it back to the MMPI, or something like that. I think the funny structure was driven by the bond financing.  I had some "fun" untangling it a couple years ago.

 

MTS, the skywalk was specifically proposed by the developers bringing in the Westin and was discussed in the hotel thread. They've dropped it for now though, I believe.

Praise Jesus!!  Skywalks are awful!!!

^That's definitely right.  MMPI owns the complex, and then I believe leases it back to the city, who then subleases it back to the MMPI, or something like that. I think the funny structure was driven by the bond financing.  I had some "fun" untangling it a couple years ago.

 

MTS, the skywalk was specifically proposed by the developers bringing in the Westin and was discussed in the hotel thread. They've dropped it for now though, I believe.

 

While I don't support the skywalk idea (especially if it doesn anything to deface Public Hall) I can see why a "convention" hotel would want this.  It's much easier to sell their clientele on a coat-free walk to the show floor than bundling up and having to deal with inclement weather. 

 

But even if they did a skywalk, I'm not sure how it would attach to Public Hall.  On the Music Hall side you have the entrance lobby, theatre house, and shared stage house with Public Hall.  On the Public Hall side the entire second floor is taken by the balcony seating and concourse entrances.  I suppose they could enter the concourse, then figure out some way to make a secure walkway inside around to the convention floor?  But this would have the attendees hiking all the way up to Lakeside, down a block then down 2-3 stories.... Also something conventioneers are not known for being thrilled with....

^That's definitely right.  MMPI owns the complex, and then I believe leases it back to the city, who then subleases it back to the MMPI, or something like that. I think the funny structure was driven by the bond financing.  I had some "fun" untangling it a couple years ago.

 

MTS, the skywalk was specifically proposed by the developers bringing in the Westin and was discussed in the hotel thread. They've dropped it for now though, I believe.

 

While I don't support the skywalk idea (especially if it doesn anything to deface Public Hall) I can see why a "convention" hotel would want this.  It's much easier to sell their clientele on a coat-free walk to the show floor than bundling up and having to deal with inclement weather. 

 

But even if they did a skywalk, I'm not sure how it would attach to Public Hall.  On the Music Hall side you have the entrance lobby, theatre house, and shared stage house with Public Hall.  On the Public Hall side the entire second floor is taken by the balcony seating and concourse entrances.  I suppose they could enter the concourse, then figure out some way to make a secure walkway inside around to the convention floor?  But this would have the attendees hiking all the way up to Lakeside, down a block then down 2-3 stories.... Also something conventioneers are not known for being thrilled with....

 

The buildings are across the street from one another.  Anyone who cannot walk (those without disabilities) the length of the building is a Lazy F---!  This is not some monstrosity like the Javitz center or the Vegas Convention Center.

 

We addressed this in a CSU APA meeting with Tony Coyne; the developer has mentioned looking into both a skywalk and an underground tunnel.  They have yet to propose either to the Planning Commission, and the planning commission will be very critical of any skywalk proposal.  That being said, Tony said these 2 things:

 

A) having a hotel directly connected to the convention center (which would be accomplished by linking it to the PA) would greatly assist the CC, as many conventions won't even look at facilities without a direct connection... I'm with MTS here... if you can't walk across a street, God help you.

 

B) due to the amount of infrastructure under that road... an underground option would be almost impossible. 

So build a hotel where the current county headquarters are. All problems solved.

Isn't there already a tunnel?

Isn't there already a tunnel?

Yep.  Yet I dont know how far it extends.  To me it's a waste of money.  Now, when the County Admin. office is vacated and what ever development is placed there, that should be directly connected.  But connecting the Westin via bridge or tunnel (both add to the cost and will need to be maintained) is a waste of money!

Thanks Cleburger for describing the practical difficulties of the elevated walkway.  Gives me some comfort that it won't ever happen.

 

IMHO, the East 6th axis view to City Hall is the most successful part of the Group Plan, and a walkway would pretty much wreck it.  So aside from any general distaste for elevated walkways, which we definitely don't need to rehash here, this idea should be a total non-starter for urban design reasons alone.

 

As a reminder, here's some Cleveland.com coverage of the issue: http://blog.cleveland.com/metro/2012/02/cleveland_council_committee_ok.html  Note Cimperman's take  :roll:

Rumor: Nashville Med Mart Dead; Cleveland the Winner... of Something (Updated)

Posted by Kyle Swenson on Mon, Apr 16, 2012 at 1:20 PM

 

http://www.clevescene.com/scene-and-heard/archives/2012/02/23/rumor-nashville-med-mart-dead-cleveland-the-winner-of-something-updated

 

 

Also, while in the concessions line at Public Auditorium for the Rock Hall inductions I snapped a couple of pictures of the CC progress below.

 

 

Thanks for the photographs.  I am disappointed in the streetlamp fixtures.  I wish they had either gone with what was originally chosen or went with the historic euclid streetlamp style