Love how FC gets involved in this and pushes the project that they are the saviors but it must be done immediately and on their property and oh yeah we need more money to keep the Merch Mart people happy.  Such crap.

Didn't FCE buy some more property along the river?

 

I still think Higbees is a good candidate for the medical mart

 

I want 10 points for calling this one

Is there anyway we can insist on building a land-bridge over the railroad tracks at Mall C in trade for having Forest City get the convention center?  Maybe TIF off of the project?

Does anyone know what (if any) impact this will have on GCP and CVB's imminent move to the ground-level space in Higbee's?

It shouldnt have any.  I talked to the people at the CVB about this months ago.  They were well aware about the possibilities of the Higbee building as potentially becoming the Medical Mart.  At least they didnt seem concerned about it.   

Strong editorial in today's PD:

 

A Medical Mart

It would take a large public investment and a lot of work, but it could be just the trade show magnet Cleveland needs

Thursday, April 05, 2007

We have heard lots of ideas, schemes and proposals for revitalizing the economy and spirits of Greater Cleveland over the last few years. But none has been as comprehensive and compelling as what Christopher Kennedy and his Chicago-based Merchandise Mart Properties are suggesting.

 

More at:

http://www.cleveland.com/editorials/plaindealer/index.ssf?/base/opinion/1175762567203130.xml&coll=2

We have heard lots of ideas, schemes and proposals for revitalizing the economy and spirits of Greater Cleveland over the last few years. But none has been as comprehensive and compelling as what Christopher Kennedy and his Chicago-based Merchandise Mart Properties are suggesting.

 

I think it's a great concept that sounds like it would have a great economic return (although I'd like to see some specifics about the price tag). Comprehensive? Yes. The most compelling proposal for revitalizing Greater Cleveland? I think that's overstating its value, and it's also downplaying how important other strategies (such as targeted venture capital, wireless infrastructure, manufacturing alliances, regional no-poaching agreements, etc.) are for our long-term business environment.

 

It would be a lot easier for me to embrace these plans if there wasn't such a silver bullet mentality among the upper stratas of the business community. If you oversell, I start questioning whether there's a reason you're having to oversell.

^good points.

 

I'll say this:  a combination Medical Mart/Convention Center is much more appealing to me than a combination Casino/Convention Center.  I think the potential economic benefits are far greater with the Medical Mart.  But, to your point 8Shades, I also want to see more details around the price tag before I'm onboard.

This is a specific project with the potential for significant regional economic spin-off.  It is not a comprehensive economic development strategy.  Of course, FC wants it so the PD sells it to the public for whatever they think they can get away with.

Really surprised by the light buzz on this most important development.  Guess since most UOers don't like FCE; don't like Ratner/Miller-Tower City; and want redev of the current underground site, they simply are sulking and don't want to talk about it... disappointing... very Cleveland.

^Whatever (regarding your "disappointing... very Cleveland." remark). I think its just folks don't want to get excited over something when A) They haven't seen info or quantitative data on how this helps Cleveland and B) living in a city that has a broad recent history of Silver bullet projects that have cost millions, heh, billions, yet not rewarded the region as much as promised.

 

I'm excited to hear about this and it maked sense for us to capitalize on what we've got (excellent med centers) to try and turn the economy around. I hope they fast track this because we need it. Looking at current demographic trends the city needs all the help it can get right about now.

^there are no silver bullets and the PD, which I often disagree with, makes that clear in its editorial.  And yes, people like DaninDC very logically question the viability of convention centers as being comeback vehicles for distressed cities and the convention biz, in general, is rather stagnant...

 

However, what we do know about this particular project is this: if it's funded, we put in place a narrow, yet potentially lucrative market: medical merchandize.  We revitalize our empty, crumbling 13-story Grand Dame Higbees building with 500K sq ft of medical showroom/convention space -- sure, I'd love for a downtown dept store to comeback to Higbees, but the MM proposal sure beats a gigantic, empty building on Public Square.  And, as Chris Kennedy correctly notes, w/o a hint of hyperbole, Cleveland is the medical capital of the nation, with CC and UH based here.  We’d probably get a new hotel and/or a room expansion of the Renaissance.  And, yes, we could pump life into somewhat moribund Tower City.   And we can put a convention center at Tower City without the casino gambling that died at the ballot box last Nov.

 

And, no, I don’t buy the idea that this project will discourage people and retail to stay indoors in Tower City.  E. 4th, Gateway and the WHD are growing, esp E. 4th, and this is the traditional corridor of retail in this town – the iron is hot to reignite this corridor once again.  And yes there are other potential uses for the current convention center space.

 

There are no silver bullets to downtown business revitalization.  But I’d rather hitch my wagon onto a couple viable horses like Chris Kennedy and Chicago’s Merchandize Mart than pop-off guys like Bob Stark, who talks a good game and has nothing (yet) to show for it-- and is now publically trashing other Cleveland developers -- like this is what we need.  In a City like Cleveland, the status quo = death.

 

While I agree this is not the typical silver bullet project like the stadiums, malls or museums that have sprang up in the past two decades, we the people still have to be cautious about where our limited economic development dollars go. Remember weren't all the projects i mentioned before supposed to bring Cleveland back? Like I said in my previous post this sounds great and I hope they stop talking about it and just build the damn thing. This city does so much talking, which when talking about huge sums of money isn't neccesarily a bad thing, but can't we just skip to the nitty gritty for once. The region needed this 7 years ago. Why has it taken this long for the folks with the money and sway to realize this and move on it?

The only issue I have with this whole thing is the part where FCE is acting like they are in the catbird seat.  I see them steering this project so that they get full advantage.  I'd feel MUCH better about this if FCE was an independent developer with no vested interest and no hidden agenda.  I would love to see objective oversight that the project isn't being finalized behind closed doors only to be dropped in Clevelanders lap as a take it or leave it proposal.  Just because something is in FCE's benefit doesn't mean its in Cleveland's benefit.

After reading and rereading the PD article they are doing nothing but selling this as a Silver Bullet for Cleveland's economic woes.  It may or may not be a good investment, that has to be studied before we should pony up public dollars (which the PD did say).  I find the PD's coverage of this and Miller's recent comments to be a little fishy.  They seem unusually boosterish for these ideas all of a sudden. 

 

That said, the inclusion of the Medical Mart shouldn't make the TC/FCE site a foregone conclusion- the Med Merchandise site could be accomodated on the site of the current county administrative offices, for example, with the CC on the current site.

Really surprised by the light buzz on this most important development.  Guess since most UOers don't like FCE; don't like Ratner/Miller-Tower City; and want redev of the current underground site, they simply are sulking and don't want to talk about it... disappointing... very Cleveland.

What exactly is new?  This is the 18th page of this discussion, and this "important development" has been speculated on and discussed extensively.  For instance, I am still waiting for an admin to award me my ten points :)

I find the PD's coverage of this and Miller's recent comments to be a little fishy.  They seem unusually boosterish for these ideas all of a sudden. 

 

I agree. There seems to be a bit of mutual back-scratching going on here.

I find the PD's coverage of this and Miller's recent comments to be a little fishy.  They seem unusually boosterish for these ideas all of a sudden. 

 

I agree. There seems to be a bit of mutual back-scratching going on here.

 

I think you mean Ass Kissing!

So let me get this straight (and qualify the following opinion with by saying I am as critical of the PD's reporting as much as anyone), whenever they fail to report on a subject, or report on it 2 weeks after the fact (because KJP usually beats them to the punch) they suck ass; they are the the worst of Cleveland has to offer; they most be in cahoots with some entity; selling some snake oil with their 2nd grade writing to the partially illiterate masses.

 

But when they are right on about something; breaking the news before anyone from UO new anything about it; calling people to the carpet who are obviously full of it; admiting when they are wrong; providing a new, out-of-the-box perspective on things (and I am in now way suggesting they are in this case); or simply saying "hey, this a good idea that needs further exploring." or something to that extent, they must be in someones pocket. There has to be some sort of back-scratching or ass kissing.

 

Am I right, or am I right?

 

Seriously!

 

That being said: I respectfully call you all out on this one. This possible "silver bullet" (words never mentioned by the pd) is the only true economic development project that has been proposed in many years. I do not count North Coast Harbor, Gateway, etc. I would count Euclid Corridor and before that, the West 25th reconstruction among the "silver bullets" I would put in the true economic development column.

 

If this powers that be are able get the MM and CC in one place (I have previously made my argument for wanting the convention center behind tower city), good things will follow.

 

Oh, and Punch, I think I get the points for this one. Although the timing was wrong, I called this one in January.

 

If it wasn't for the PD's series on Forest City Enterprises last year, I wouldn't have given any of this a second thought. If it wasn't for FCE's large financial support of Frank Jackson's 2005 mayoral campaign, or the campaigns of Commissioners Tim Hagan and Jimmy Dimora, I doubt I'd be casting a wary eye on the whole convention center process. If it wasn't for the PD's failure to fully weigh the pros and cons of the former Higbee's site vs. the current county adminstration building site for the Medical Mart, then I doubt I'd be doing much doubting.

 

But put all these together, and I smell some linkages between FCE, Jackson and the PD's publisher. Maybe I'm just too skeptical/critical. And I'm not even saying these linkages are bad, because you've got to get the big players together to make something big happen. I'm not attaching any positives/negatives to my suspicions, just stating my suspicions.

OK, I'll buy that argument from you - but what about the rest of you?

 

I kid.

 

We all know how long it takes to get things done in this city - especially with all of the little fiefdoms and their leaders who will do everything possible to keep power. But if there is somebody (i.e. Hopkins Commissioner), or a group of people (Private Developer/Mayor/PD) who are taking the initiative to accomplish something that will (IMO) better the city/county/region then they should go for it and we should encourage them.

 

Unless everyone prefers their toast buttered with committee/commission process that adds to much time to any project.

 

I don't know. I feel like this is incoherent rambling and I am not making my point clear... so I will stop.

What KJP said, plus I feel that they are downplaying the economic impacts of the Lakefront Vision, Voices and Choices, Euclid Corridor, the Capital Improvements Plan.  Any of these are in my mind more "comprehensive", though not as narrowly focused on jobs as building a CC/MM project.  And of course they never say "Silver Bullet" (as that is a term used by critics, not boosters), but it seems to me that this is what they are implying this project will be (the RX for Cleveland?).  It seems like a way for FCE to make a lot of money from the public till has been presented, and the PD has stepped up, poste haste, with the sales pitch.

^ I agree. As I posted in my brief b*tching session above, I don't have a problem with this project per se, although I would like to see numbers, and I would like a more transparent process for what could result in a sizable sales tax hike without voter approval (as the commissioners can add, I believe, up to a half-cent more without voter consent).

 

My main beef with the article is the editorial's choice to describe this project as the most "comprehensive and compelling" economic development strategy in the last several years. While they don't use the word "silver bullet", the piece does seem to indicate that Cleveland's best ED hope is to invest in a single, large-scale public investment, which I think belies the ROI offered by all sorts of more grassroots projects taking place across the city.

 

This appears to be a great project, and I think it has a lot of promise, but I also think that recruiting venture capital to biotech start-ups, creating a dense product design district and positioning the city to be a hub for the manufacturing and design of green technology (just to name a few) are equally "comprehensive and compelling". They just oversold a great idea, IMO ... whether this oversell is indicative of some backroom nepotism, I don't know.

THis has silver bullet written all over it. For the Forest City Group. For there stupidity and ignorance,they cast there line for public money. I bet medical mart people are getting a very large discount on rent. ( rent at the higbees is $70,000 per floor per month.) Furthermore 6000 per show only shows me that the old convention center is perfect. at 200 square feet per person more than effecient amount of space.

 

Now if cost per show does cover the 30 year mortgage then build  it.

THis has silver bullet written all over it. For the Forest City Group.

 

The fact that this was Toby Cosgrove's idea should speak volumes against the naysayers.

 

I think that people are reacting against this because of "old" reasons.

For my part, I am not reacting against the project, just the way that the PD had lined up with the sales pitch for it, and of course panned all the other things that are happening in our city.  I also disagree with the way it now seems that the TC site is a done deal, even though the planning studies indicated that the CC site was more adequate.  And yes, I've noted that this was Cosgrove's idea.  I'm becoming very impressed with his vision for the Clinic and Cleveland.

I am already growing tired of the cute little catch phrase "silver bullet".....one person uses it..now everybody does....maybe we should just say a new convention center would help Cleveland to "bring sexy back"....enough already! 

 

On a side note..is there ANY project that would attach itself with a convention center project that would make the masses the least bit happy?  Nay to casino gambling...Nay to the medical mart..nay to ____

^I don't think anyone is upset by the medical mart.  For me, I don't like the idea of the CC going behind Tower City because there simply is not enough room for it.  It is like shoving 10 pounds of sugar into a 5 pound bag.  It will close off one of the cities waterfronts, the river, and do nothing for the lakefront.  The current site would at least improve lakefront connections to downtown.  But this has all been said before.....

I am already growing tired of the cute little catch phrase "silver bullet".....one person uses it..now everybody does....maybe we should just say a new convention center would help Cleveland to "bring sexy back"....enough already! 

 

On a side note..is there ANY project that would attach itself with a convention center project that would make the masses the least bit happy?  Nay to casino gambling...Nay to the medical mart..nay to ____

 

I don't mind the medical mart, nor do I mind a convention center behind tower city. What I don't like is that the paper is making it seem as if the day this thing opens Cleveland is officially "back". In his defense though, Sam Miller did say this is just a small piece in a larger puzzle that will aid in Cleveland's economic development.

I am already growing tired of the cute little catch phrase "silver bullet".....one person uses it..now everybody does....maybe we should just say a new convention center would help Cleveland to "bring sexy back"....enough already! 

 

On a side note..is there ANY project that would attach itself with a convention center project that would make the masses the least bit happy?  Nay to casino gambling...Nay to the medical mart..nay to ____

 

I don't mind the medical mart, nor do I mind a convention center behind tower city. What I don't like is that the paper is making it seem as if the day this thing opens Cleveland is officially "back". In his defense though, Sam Miller did say this is just a small piece in a larger puzzle that will aid in Cleveland's economic development.

 

Again, what is wrong with the current space?  A space that can be updated at a lot less cost and the spin off development greater for MORE people, not just the Rats!  the Marriott has said they would upgrade and expand; we would get a brand new 700 (IIRC) hotel; we would have have a improved green space and improved transit connection.

 

Punch is dead on point, if the center is built behind TC we would only be setting the city up for the same problem we have now, a small outdated location that cuts off river and can't be expanded in say 50 years.

 

KEEP THE CC UNDER THE MALL!

^when did i say that?

^when did i say that?

 

opppsie....I ment "punch" not "pope".  Those damn P's!

Is the visitors bureau going to take up the entire first floor of the Higbee's building.  When I was home last week, it looked like some serious demo was going on.

what the hey? are they gonna put this med mart on the square facing first floor of higbees? you gotta be kidding me. if so i hope it's temporary until a real med mart building is built...or something.

The proposed (or whatever you wanna call its status) med mart and whats going on with the convention and visitors beureau @ Higbees are two seperate projects.

Well, the medical mart is going to go into Higbees.  It looks like the entire first floor has already been gutted.  I know the CVB was going into the first floor, what I was wondering is how much of the first floor they are going to take.  And I guess I was speculating that if the CVB was only taking a small corner, then maybe the medical mart is quietly starting regardless of the convention center.

 

But, I haven't been able to find the info on how much space the CVB is going to take.

^ Is this for certain, Punch?  What's your source?

Trade shows: new Rx for city?

Medical Mart wants showroom in old Higbee building, but the project hinges on a new convention center

Wednesday, April 04, 2007

Sarah Hollander and Joan Mazzolini

Plain Dealer Reporters

 

The entire article is on page 17 of this thread

Talks on merchandise mart to include Petro

 

By JAY MILLER

Crain's

 

6:00 am, May 14, 2007

 

The Cuyahoga County commissioners have hired former Ohio attorney general Jim Petro, himself a former county commissioner, to help in the effort to bring to Cleveland a medical merchandise mart that would be operated by Chicago-based Merchandise Mart Properties.

 

More at crainscleveland.com http://www.crainscleveland.com

I have a question...

IF the new convention center and Medical Mart end up near the Tower City complex, what kind of space could occupy the current convention center (Public Auditorium)?  I know people have mentioned something about Hollywood using the space for movie production??? but I'm talking about a program that would generate activity in the immediate vicinity.  I've heard mention of an aquarium but I'm thinking some preservationists will not want to see any fenestrations on Pub. Aud. (There would have to be some sources of natural daylight.  Not for the fishes but for us!!!).  Anyways, while I agree with many of you that expanding the existing space and connecting it with a new "Central Station" would be a great idea, I don't think it'd be a shocker if Forest City got their way.  The design of their new complex will be an entirely different issue when/if it solidifies...

 

Anyways, it's a shame that this great space isn't as occupied as we'd hope.  If there's to be development around the periphery of the Mall, regardless of Public Auditorium, maybe the Mall would be the backyard for thousands of residents and we wouldn't need some other attraction.  Oh, does anyone think Public Auditorium could be the main terminal for a future station connecting to the adjacent tracks through cool corridor (a la ORD or DTW underground tunnel?)  I don't know...just throwing some ideas out there...

 

GO CAVS TONIGHT!!!!!

 

 

We need a big cat(republicans) to kills the rats(ratners).

Look at it this way,we now know that two of the commissioners are going to have a hard time to get relected after this brauer affair.We must make everyone notice about how much is beign wasted.33 million dolars could have gone to metro.

 

  :-D

^and by metro you mean..........MetroHealth?

Can someone tell me what this medical mart is really all about, because I don't really understand the concept.

Can someone tell me what this medical mart is really all about, because I don't really understand the concept.

 

go look at the chicago, dallas or Atlanta merchandise mart.  then imagine one in cleveland that concentrate on the medical field.

Cuyahoga officials set hearings on tax hike

 

  RELATED LINKS 

 

  Cuyahoga County

 

 

 

By JAY MILLER

 

2:01 pm, June 19, 2007

 

 

 

Cuyahoga County commissioners today took the first step toward a one-quarter percentage point increase in the county sales tax to finance a new convention center that would have a medical merchandise mart attached to it.

 

No vote was taken on instituting the new tax. Rather, the commissioners took the legal action necessary to begin the process and voted unanimously for public hearings to air the issue.

 

At this point, the commissioners are split on whether to go ahead with the added tax. Commissioners Jimmy Dimora and Tim Hagan favor getting the ball rolling so, if the increase is approved later this summer, it would go into effect before the end of 2007.

 

More at crainscleveland.com http://www.crainscleveland.com

“There’s no other way to go."

 

Those guys love their absolutes.

True. I thought the first rule of politicians is to keep your options open.

Well, it is not like this hasn't been studied for the past decade

If they're going forward on this tax increase, they'd better have a deal with Medical mart in their backpocket because I believe that's the only way the public swallows this.

It's the only reason I support doing it now.

^^I agree.  However, to state that the ONLY way to pay for a Medical Mart is by raising taxes is what I've come to expect from the likes of Dimora and Hagan. :-(