June 20, 200717 yr Well this is probably a great place to discuss how you raise the 300 to 400 mil. to build a convention center without any new taxes. Anybody have some good (and practical) ideas. Like mentioned above, it is not like the powers that be have failed to give it some thought the past 10 years.
June 20, 200717 yr Well this is probably a great place to discuss how you raise the 300 to 400 mil. to build a convention center without any new taxes. Anybody have some good (and practical) ideas. Like mentioned above, it is not like the powers that be have failed to give it some thought the past 10 years. Casinos! No seriously, grant a casino license on the basis that they must provide an XXX Sq Ft convention center, and they will. that also takes care of the public finance drain that operating a convention center is.
June 20, 200717 yr If you get an Indian tribe to desire the banks of the Cuyahoga as a justifiable part of their reservation (by citing history -- and they can), they can petition the U.S. Department of the Interior to declare it as such. If that happens, the tribe can set up a casino on the reservation as a means to sustain the tribe. Ohio voters can pass the strictest anti-gambling measure in world history and it won't mean boo against the USDOI declaration. "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
June 20, 200717 yr They will raise the sales tax by a quarter in october. Could someone break down the sales taxes,whats the percent that the state gets and what percent does the county use,and for what? Would love to put a ballot up in november to cut the sales tax by 2 percent.
June 20, 200717 yr Your sales tax may be going up Hike would pay for convention center linked to Medical Mart Wednesday, June 20, 2007 Joan Mazzolini Plain Dealer Reporter The Cuyahoga County commissioners plan to raise the local sales tax by a quarter of a penny on each dollar, starting Oct. 1, to pay for a $350 million convention center. The increase would raise Cuyahoga County's sales tax, already the highest in Ohio, to 7.75 percent. It would raise the tax that consumers pay by 25 cents for each $100 and add about $42 million a year to the county's coffers. More at cleveland.com http://www.cleveland.com
June 20, 200717 yr "Otherwise we'll be watching our demise." Give me a freaking break. First the county building , now this. Those two jokers should be fired on the spot. thank goodness for PLJs!
June 20, 200717 yr So, in other words, Dimora is calling the convention center a "silver bullet project." That quote is going to come back and bite him in the ass, and probably often. When are these guys going to realize there is no such thing as a silver bullet to cure what ails this city or any other?? It's become clear to me that the urgency expressed by Dimora and Hagan toward this project is most likely driven by campaign contributions from Forest City Enterprises. FCE has been heavily pushing this project and pouring lots of dollars into the campaigns of Dimora, Hagan, Jackson and others to get them to advance it. I would vote against it, if for no other reason, to send a message that these megaprojects intended to benefit a select few well-moneyed self-interests aren't helping this city. In reality, they may be distracting it from the less-glamorous, nitty-gritty, sometimes-unpopular work that has to be done on a daily basis over many decades to revitalize the local economy. "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
June 20, 200717 yr I support it because they are being pro-active in getting something done. Until Jones comes up with a better way, I support this. Just can't sit around and talk about it though. MM wants to see a clear definitive way on how to finance it.
June 20, 200717 yr Look if medical mart is so profitable,then charge them a percentage of there gross. Perhap I should open up an Medical showroom in cleveland. I know a few doctors and a few enginers.
June 21, 200717 yr Convention center plan gains suburban backing Thursday, June 21, 2007 Joan Mazzolini and Thomas Ott Plain Dealer Reporters Suburban mayors generally support a plan raising the sales tax for a new convention center if it will land a Medical Mart in downtown Cleveland. And while some said they would prefer voter approval, many view the Medical Mart as a critical project and some praised the commissioners for showing leadership. More at cleveland.com http://www.cleveland.com
June 21, 200717 yr kjp or anybody was this true? from cle dot com. 19172.2. thank geo forbes by grumpygramp, 6/21/07 9:12 ET Re: Sales Tax Going Up by ajta, 6/21/07 Regan transferred the old post office to city for a medical mart in the 80's but geo forbes pres of city council held up its transfer to forest city.why? read between the lines
June 21, 200717 yr exactly, poor writing aside that's why i ask. if true, i had no idea there was a prior history with getting a med mart.
June 21, 200717 yr why would they wait over 20 years to put one in Cleveland? because the only way to pay for it is via a tax hike, Jeez, didn't you listen to the county commissioners?
June 21, 200717 yr sounds like forest city was going to do a med mart for free in the 80's before forbes got mad at them -- or whatever the heck that mysterious post was aluding to.
June 21, 200717 yr let us see Silver bullet,high taxes.an out of state company makes money,county gets the left overs. how silly [move]we must get rid of dimora[/move] [glow=red,2,300]the roof is on fire,let dimora burn[/glow]
June 21, 200717 yr I agree that we need to get rid of Dimora, but I think that you're applying some cliche logic for a unique project.
June 21, 200717 yr Ok so how many voters do we need to have a recall vote???? If we start to recall him ,I think he would get a little scared :whip: :strong: :bang: :speech:
June 22, 200717 yr I am not against a sales tax increase, BUT, I really do not like the way they are going about raising it. So, now, no matter what, the people aren't going to want or like this project. Instead of marketing it to the people, they come out with statements like this, "the decision was made to increase the sales tax without a vote because it likely wouldn't pass at the ballot." Just does not make sense. Kinda makes you mad too. And for a town that wants to attract retail back, they have to remember sales tax plays a role in it. I just don't get it.
June 22, 200717 yr I am not against a sales tax increase, BUT, I really do not like the way they are going about raising it. So, now, no matter what, the people aren't going to want or like this project. Instead of marketing it to the people, they come out with statements like this, "the decision was made to increase the sales tax without a vote because it likely wouldn't pass at the ballot." Just does not make sense. Kinda makes you mad too. And for a town that wants to attract retail back, they have to remember sales tax plays a role in it. I just don't get it. Ahhh, you're not alone! 2 of your 3 county commisioners don't get it either!
June 22, 200717 yr All very valid points. I very much agree that the commissioners are not going about this in the correct way. But here's where I differ regarding the sales tax: are the communities on the fringes of Cuyahoga country really hurting for retail dollars? Westlake has a huge tax surplus. How's Solon doing? How about Mayfield? If we were talking about Garfield Hts, East Cleveland or Bedford, then I'd feel differently. I'm not about to worry about the .25% increase and the effect that it will have on those outer ring suburbs.
June 22, 200717 yr I don't like a new tax. Don't like bypassing the voters, to a degree. However, if this becomes a political football, it will go down to defeat just like Issue 2. You know that. I wish more creative funding could be found, but what choice is there? Are we better off with no Medical Merchandise Mart/new convention center, a struggling Tower City and near empty500K+ sq ft retail/office structure like old Higbees in the center of town?
June 22, 200717 yr Jackson gets behind county sales tax hike Urges support for commissioners Friday, June 22, 2007 Joan Mazzolini Plain Dealer Reporter Mayor Frank Jackson yesterday threw his support behind increasing the county sales tax to land a Medical Mart and build a new convention center, and he asked suburban mayors to join him in supporting the plan. "A convention center in and of itself is a losing proposition," Jackson told mayors at the county's annual meeting with the Mayors and City Managers Association. "But a center with the Medical Mart that may have one trade show a week will bring a lot of money directly into our economy. More at cleveland.com http://www.cleveland.com
June 27, 200717 yr Can it work in Cleveland? Chicago's rich retail heritage lies behind the city's successful Merchandise Mart. A Medical Mart in Cleveland might be able to feed off our health-care prestige. Wednesday, June 27, 2007 Sarah Hollander Plain Dealer Reporter Sit. Recline. Pat the upholstery. Confer with colleagues. For hours on end, throngs of taste makers and potential buyers tested office chairs during a recent trade show at Chicago’s Merchandise Mart. The one-on-one time could eventually land a company’s 2008 model behind hundreds of desks in new or renovated office buildings. To picture the Medical Mart proposed for Cleveland, replace ergonomic desk chairs with stethoscopes or MRI machines. The company that operates the massive Merchandise Mart thinks a smaller mart featuring health-care products would succeed in Cleveland. And that the mart, in return, could help resuscitate the city. More at cleveland.com http://www.cleveland.com
June 27, 200717 yr If the city's leaders want the public to embrace this project...MORE SO the $.25/$100 tax increase, THEY NEED AN ACCURATE REPRESENTATION of Chicago's MM!!! :x What the hell were those pathetic 1994 computer looking renderings?!?!?!?! And who the hell approved those? That is nothing like Chicago's MM showrooms. That rendering made Value City Furniture look like it's better than MM! AAHH!! Preachin' to the choir huh?!
June 27, 200717 yr Uh, what photos are you referring to? Are they in the PD? Isn't it the PD who would have secured those photos?
June 27, 200717 yr Maybe this http://www.cleveland.com/business/wide/index.ssf?/business/wide/med_mart1_0627.html? That would have been done by the PD's graphics people.
June 27, 200717 yr Hi all - It seems like they're hellbent on building the convention center behind Tower City. I'm new to the forum and was curious as to what's going to happen to the old convention center site?
June 27, 200717 yr Welcome to UrbanOhio! As has been suggested, I'd love to see it used for movie sets.
June 27, 200717 yr Welcome to the forum - and you've asked the million-dollar question. Your guess is as good as ours, unfortunately. I imagine they'd try to find some way to re-use the space but I'm not sure what would work there. They've used the space for film staging in the past. clevelandskyscrapers.com Cleveland Skyscrapers on Instagram
June 27, 200717 yr What we are doing is pandering to corporate branding. Just like we pander to sports brand name. We had the good standard oil, winton, chef boy ar de. Then we have the incompetent Jacobs and Ratners. Tower city failure and galleria and world trade center failure. Until Ratner pays back the loans thecity gave for tower city.we should not be dealing with forest city. I would give K&D a 80 percent tax break to move the corporate headquarters to the flats.
June 27, 200717 yr What we are doing is pandering to corporate branding. Just like we pander to sports brand name. We had the good standard oil, winton, chef boy ar de. Then we have the incompetent Jacobs and Ratners. Tower city failure and galleria and world trade center failure. Until Ratner pays back the loans thecity gave for tower city.we should not be dealing with forest city. I would give K&D a 80 percent tax break to move the corporate headquarters to the flats. WHAT? Again, your author another post that is not clear! Wow is towercity a failure? I love how people blame towercity as being a failure instead of looking at the root of the problem - the actual tenants (business that signed leases to occupy squ. footage in tower city) of towercity and their financial status.
June 27, 200717 yr I have to admit, I read that post and channeled Scooby-Doo when he says "arf?!?" ??? clevelandskyscrapers.com Cleveland Skyscrapers on Instagram
June 27, 200717 yr What we are doing is pandering to corporate branding. Just like we pander to sports brand name. We had the good standard oil, winton, chef boy ar de. Then we have the incompetent Jacobs and Ratners. Tower city failure and galleria and world trade center failure. Until Ratner pays back the loans thecity gave for tower city.we should not be dealing with forest city. I would give K&D a 80 percent tax break to move the corporate headquarters to the flats. WHAT? Again, your author another post that is not clear! Wow is towercity a failure? I love how people blame towercity as being a failure instead of looking at the root of the problem - the actual tenants (business that signed leases to occupy squ. footage in tower city) of towercity and their financial status. Tower city states that they get 6 million visitors. 2 majors hotels are connected to it.Plus the federal court system. The best retail is ann taylor and brooks brothers. GIve me a break its bad management from the top to the bottom.
June 27, 200717 yr What we are doing is pandering to corporate branding. Just like we pander to sports brand name. We had the good standard oil, winton, chef boy ar de. Then we have the incompetent Jacobs and Ratners. Tower city failure and galleria and world trade center failure. Until Ratner pays back the loans thecity gave for tower city.we should not be dealing with forest city. I would give K&D a 80 percent tax break to move the corporate headquarters to the flats. WHAT? Again, your author another post that is not clear! Wow is towercity a failure? I love how people blame towercity as being a failure instead of looking at the root of the problem - the actual tenants (business that signed leases to occupy squ. footage in tower city) of towercity and their financial status. Tower city states that they get 6 million visitors. 2 majors hotels are connected to it.Plus the federal court system. The best retail is ann taylor and brooks brothers. GIve me a break its bad management from the top to the bottom. W-T-F?
June 27, 200717 yr What we are doing is pandering to corporate branding. Just like we pander to sports brand name. We had the good standard oil, winton, chef boy ar de. Then we have the incompetent Jacobs and Ratners. Tower city failure and galleria and world trade center failure. Until Ratner pays back the loans thecity gave for tower city.we should not be dealing with forest city. I would give K&D a 80 percent tax break to move the corporate headquarters to the flats. WHAT? Again, your author another post that is not clear! Wow is towercity a failure? I love how people blame towercity as being a failure instead of looking at the root of the problem - the actual tenants (business that signed leases to occupy squ. footage in tower city) of towercity and their financial status. Tower city states that they get 6 million visitors. 2 majors hotels are connected to it.Plus the federal court system. The best retail is ann taylor and brooks brothers. GIve me a break its bad management from the top to the bottom. W-T-F? Its info that Tower city put out. Its kinda dishearting :-( :-o :-(
June 27, 200717 yr Edsiou, when you hit the quotes thingy, can you post your reply OUTSIDE the quote brackets Very confusing
June 27, 200717 yr PD Graphics: http://www.cleveland.com/business/images/med_mart2_0627.gif http://www.cleveland.com/business/images/med_mart1_0627.gif
June 27, 200717 yr this is a bad explanation of how the chicago merchandise mart works. I pretty sure, based on the way that was written, the writer (and or reseacher assigned to the story) have never set foot in the CMM!
June 27, 200717 yr Hi all - It seems like they're hellbent on building the convention center behind Tower City. I'm new to the forum and was curious as to what's going to happen to the old convention center site? Welcome rbabb16! The desire for the Tower City site is motivated by Forest City Enterprises putting on the full-court press with city and county elected officials, including substantial campaign contributions. Standard MO for a business trying to get it's way with a major public works project. As for the old convention center, I don't any plan has been specifically stated for its reuse. But 3231 is right that movie/television/commercial sets is something likely, as the Cleveland Film Commission already has the OK to market it to producers for such purposes (and has been doing do). But somehow I don't think that's an efficient use of that space unless there's A LOT of film production going on down there. And that's not happening, at least not yet. "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
June 27, 200717 yr MMP produces 60 trade shows a year. There was talk of producing up to 50 shows a year in cleveland. How many people would go to each show ,and how much space would be needed for each show. See i belivee if Forest city get a convention center built behind them ,then they will give a major break to medical mart on the lease to higbees. Right now each floor is $70,000 per month.
June 27, 200717 yr this is a bad explanation of how the chicago merchandise mart works. I pretty sure, based on the way that was written, the writer (and or reseacher assigned to the story) have never set foot in the CMM! please tell us how cmm works?????
June 27, 200717 yr See i belivee if Forest city get a convention center built behind them ,then they will give a major break to medical mart on the lease to higbees. Right now each floor is $70,000 per month. Of course, it's the "you scratch my back, I'll scratch yours"
June 27, 200717 yr Yes, MyTwoSense--I agree and that's what I meant in my earlier post today. Today's article-ESPECIALLY the image was the poorest representation of MM that anyone or anything could have created! The first couple public floors of MM are gorgeous with designer showrooms. In simplest sense, it's a mall for interiors, not some crammed warehouse like the PD graphic indicates. Why would anyone in their rightmind believe that a medical MM is critical for Cleveland-and that Chicago's MM is something to write home about-based on the graphic? Oh, and Cleveland doesn't have the appeal of a metropolis??? WTF?!?! Megalopolis we aren't (although some may argue that) but metropolis I think we are... :roll: I also didn't know that Chicago, Boston, and NYC have great weather, gambling and notorious beaches! I missed the boat again! Geez, thank you media for the update... Again, leave it to the PD to take something good (cleveland and the MM concept) and totally skew it to become something completely different. Why am I complaining to all of you?
June 27, 200717 yr Yes, MyTwoSense--I agree and that's what I meant in my earlier post today. Today's article-ESPECIALLY the image was the poorest representation of MM that anyone or anything could have created! The first couple public floors of MM are gorgeous with designer showrooms. In simplest sense, it's a mall for interiors, not some crammed warehouse like the PD graphic indicates. Why would anyone in their rightmind believe that a medical MM is critical for Cleveland-and that Chicago's MM is something to write home about-based on the graphic? Oh, and Cleveland doesn't have the appeal of a metropolis??? WTF?!?! Megalopolis we aren't (although some may argue that) but metropolis I think we are... :roll: I also didn't know that Chicago, Boston, and NYC have great weather, gambling and notorious beaches! I missed the boat again! Geez, thank you media for the update... Again, leave it to the PD to take something good (cleveland and the MM concept) and totally skew it to become something completely different. Why am I complaining to all of you? dont feel bad...I've been in a "funk" all day. My nephew drop a bomb of bad news on me, I almost get into a physical confrontation with some 18 year old punk on the train then I have to decipher post here! it's just one of them days
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