please for the love of god find me any facility that is 300,000 Sq feet (or whatever size this ends up being) that takes only 10 people to run....

 

I am talking about the management to run medical mart.. the 300,000 facility jobs are already here in the convention center that we have now,plus the IX center if you want to add them. 

 

Me too. Edsiou is entertaining, if nothing else. Better not ban him, or I'm going to Cleveland.com for my daily "WHHATT?"

 

Hey when are you going to bring professor Melis and take on calabrese. He is already doing pro bono work in Ireland for there transportation woo's

I've been rendered speechless.

I've been rendered speechless.

 

  Utopia!

In no particular order

 

1. Security

2. Shipping and receiving

3 Maintenance

4. Human Resources

5. Sales staff

6. (Union) Electrical workers to set up power for displays

7. (Union) Movers to set up the displays

8. Consessions

9. Sales people per each company displaying goods

 

That is off the top of my head.  My guess is a few more than ten.  Especially if people decide to move a large portion of their business here, because a large chunk of their sales come from people purchasing their stuff here.

blah blah blah.

 

 

  Job numbers= 10 jobs to run the the whole show.Management.

 

  This facility is for exhibition.

 

  The fifty to eighty sales people are medical devices comapnies that want to sell there product to the clinic. Every producer of product must sell there product to a user. Take for example Philips makes a few dif. x ray maichine,so they set a sales meeting at the clinic with  head of radilology.and push there product. Now there are over 15 departments at the clinic.SO each has four to  five sales man come in to sell a product withing there department.Do you understand???

 

I think the clinic and university host between 40 to 50 conference at the omni hotel on medical advances,etc. 

  

  I am just saying there is right now a building within walking distance of the present day convention center that is right ready to renovated.

 

 

 

Thats impossible and a flat out lie that the clinic host 40-50 conferences at the omni hotel! 

 

10 Jobs?  You said there are medical devices sales people are selling there wares to the clinic.  That is just ONE segment of sales people COMING TO THE CLINIC.  This facility would allow them to based their sales office and show room here.  So in addition to those "sales" staff there would be wholesalers/retail product specialist here based in the building showroom (3 to 5 people per showroom X (I'm making this number up) 60 showrooms) 24/7.   That means the clinic and other companies would do one stop shopping in the medical mart. 

 

Edisou, the staff that runs the new convention center would most likely run the new facility.  If CC was smart they would roll the IX staff right into that and let them run the new larger facility.  However, the Merchandise Mart would have its own management.  Especially if the buildings are NOT connected.

 

Now what building are you talking about? Public Hall or Higbees.

 

Again, your employment numbers do not add up and I really think you do not understand the how the facility is to be used.

 

Since your in women's apparel, have you ever been into a merchandise mart ??

I was going to start a convention center with my dad, but we decided to open an auto manufacturing plant instead.

It's as if edisou just has conversations with itself.  Funny s&*t.

It's as if edisou just has conversations with itself.  Funny s&*t.

 

Now thats funny!

In no particular order

 

1. Security

2. Shipping and receiving

3 Maintenance

4. Human Resources

5. Sales staff

6. (Union) Electrical workers to set up power for displays

7. (Union) Movers to set up the displays

8. Consessions

9. Sales people per each company displaying goods

 

That is off the top of my head.  My guess is a few more than ten.  Especially if people decide to move a large portion of their business here, because a large chunk of their sales come from people purchasing their stuff here.

 

What do you mean??  This only sounds like you need nine people...the tenth would probably be a greeter or something.

Make that 11. The greeter would probably need a personal assistant. This is Cleveland, after all.

edsiou, like MTS said, I don't believe you fully understand the purpose and function that a medical mart/convention center will have here. Yes, the medical mart corporation may only directly employ 10-ish people once it's built; and the people running the new convention center will probably transfer from the existing CC. That would equal (using your logic) a net increase of the 10-ish jobs created by MM.

Now, have you thought about the following:

*All the construction jobs created to build this monster? The millions in payroll that these people (who live in the community) will then circulate through the local economy.

Let's continue...

*Applying your logic to other large downtown projects, let's use Jacobs Field and Quicken Loans Arena as an example. Publicly-funded by the county, touted as a "silver-bullet"-type economic stimulant, this project was at least voted upon by the people. Using your logic, this project has been an obvious disappointment because the Tribe and Cavs simply relocated their operations from Muny Stadium and Richfield, no? Not counting all the construction work that took place, (my dad and uncle both ran work there for the duration of the job) keeping the Tribe in Cleveland, bringing the Cavs back downtown, revitalizing the entire Prospect-Gateway neighborhood, boosting our civic pride during each team's title run(s), and spurring other development/investment in that neighborhood, you would have to conclude that this project hasn't lived up to the hype because these buildings really didn't "create" any new jobs.

*Let's ask ourselves this: Our beloved, much-praised, growing E.4th st neighborhood is one of the shining, most happening spots in all of NE Ohio, much less downtown. If Gateway hadn't been built, would this development have occurred? Absolutely not.

 

*A new MM/CC project would be a growth catalyst in exactly the same way. If this is built, a new hotel attached to the CC is likely to follow (more jobs); the other hotels will see increased business and/or expand themselves (more jobs and bed tax revenue). Restaurants will see more business and new ones will open (more jobs); the retail scene will definitely improve, especially within Tower City Center (more jobs). Bars, clubs, concert places, comedy joints, the museums...,etc. will all benefit too. This is just the hospitality sector. And all this new investment and growth just makes the downtown area a more attractive place to live. :clap:

*The new MM will be populated with rep's from countless medical-related companies from all over the nation/world. Who's to say that some of these firms don't eventually decide to set up an office or a manufacturing base here because of their presence in the MM? Our critical mass of hospitals and medical-research facilities here are second to none. What about this?

*The fact that Medical Mart (the company) will be managing the facility is encouraging. They produce their own trade shows and could directly steer all/a lot of that business into our new facility. The more shows and business we get, I'm sure the better off they'll do. Also, it seems that our new CC will be targeting a specific area of trade shows/conventions: the medical field. I'm not going to get redundant about how Cleveland fits that niche. Make any sense? I don't believe that the MM people would be interested in coming here if they didn't think this could be successful.

Have you thought about any of this? This project isn't as simple as you're attempting to make it. If we screw this up, some other city will happily jump all over this, but at least we'll have that extra quarter in our pocket on that next $100 purchase. :roll:

blah blah blah.

 

 

  Job numbers= 10 jobs to run the the whole show.Management.

 

  This facility is for exhibition.

 

  The fifty to eighty sales people are medical devices comapnies that want to sell there product to the clinic. Every producer of product must sell there product to a user. Take for example Philips makes a few dif. x ray maichine,so they set a sales meeting at the clinic with  head of radilology.and push there product. Now there are over 15 departments at the clinic.SO each has four to  five sales man come in to sell a product withing there department.Do you understand???

 

I think the clinic and university host between 40 to 50 conference at the omni hotel on medical advances,etc. 

 

  I am just saying there is right now a building within walking distance of the present day convention center that is right ready to renovated.

 

 

 

Thats impossible and a flat out lie that the clinic host 40-50 conferences at the omni hotel! 

 

10 Jobs?  You said there are medical devices sales people are selling there wares to the clinic.  That is just ONE segment of sales people COMING TO THE CLINIC.  This facility would allow them to based their sales office and show room here.  So in addition to those "sales" staff there would be wholesalers/retail product specialist here based in the building showroom (3 to 5 people per showroom X (I'm making this number up) 60 showrooms) 24/7.  That means the clinic and other companies would do one stop shopping in the medical mart. 

 

Edisou, the staff that runs the new convention center would most likely run the new facility.  If CC was smart they would roll the IX staff right into that and let them run the new larger facility.  However, the Merchandise Mart would have its own management.  Especially if the buildings are NOT connected.

 

Now what building are you talking about? Public Hall or Higbees.

 

Again, your employment numbers do not add up and I really think you do not understand the how the facility is to be used.

 

Since your in women's apparel, have you ever been into a merchandise mart ??

 

No.I use the the internet.

I was going to start a convention center with my dad, but we decided to open an auto manufacturing plant instead.

 

If you have to the funds why not

It's as if edisou just has conversations with itself.  Funny s&*t.

Thank you thankyou

Make that 11. The greeter would probably need a personal assistant. This is Cleveland, after all.

 

I bet you know the greeter at steelyard commons walmart.

Edsiou.  Why are you so defensive? 

 

We are trying to help you understand the importance (financially and from a spin off business standpoint)  of the MM as you've come across ill informed and you answers mirror many in the area that don't know/understand what type of facility this is and how it relates to our current status as a world leader in the medical industry.

I officially have a headache now.

edsiou, like MTS said, I don't believe you fully understand the purpose and function that a medical mart/convention center will have here. Yes, the medical mart corporation may only directly employ 10-ish people once it's built; and the people running the new convention center will probably transfer from the existing CC. That would equal (using your logic) a net increase of the 10-ish jobs created by MM.

Now, have you thought about the following:

*All the construction jobs created to build this monster? The millions in payroll that these people (who live in the community) will then circulate through the local economy.

Let's continue...

*Applying your logic to other large downtown projects, let's use Jacobs Field and Quicken Loans Arena as an example. Publicly-funded by the county, touted as a "silver-bullet"-type economic stimulant, this project was at least voted upon by the people. Using your logic, this project has been an obvious disappointment because the Tribe and Cavs simply relocated their operations from Muny Stadium and Richfield, no? Not counting all the construction work that took place, (my dad and uncle both ran work there for the duration of the job) keeping the Tribe in Cleveland, bringing the Cavs back downtown, revitalizing the entire Prospect-Gateway neighborhood, boosting our civic pride during each team's title run(s), and spurring other development/investment in that neighborhood, you would have to conclude that this project hasn't lived up to the hype because these buildings really didn't "create" any new jobs.

*Let's ask ourselves this: Our beloved, much-praised, growing E.4th st neighborhood is one of the shining, most happening spots in all of NE Ohio, much less downtown. If Gateway hadn't been built, would this development have occurred? Absolutely not.

 

*A new MM/CC project would be a growth catalyst in exactly the same way. If this is built, a new hotel attached to the CC is likely to follow (more jobs); the other hotels will see increased business and/or expand themselves (more jobs and bed tax revenue). Restaurants will see more business and new ones will open (more jobs); the retail scene will definitely improve, especially within Tower City Center (more jobs). Bars, clubs, concert places, comedy joints, the museums...,etc. will all benefit too. This is just the hospitality sector. And all this new investment and growth just makes the downtown area a more attractive place to live. :clap:

*The new MM will be populated with rep's from countless medical-related companies from all over the nation/world. Who's to say that some of these firms don't eventually decide to set up an office or a manufacturing base here because of their presence in the MM? Our critical mass of hospitals and medical-research facilities here are second to none. What about this?

*The fact that Medical Mart (the company) will be managing the facility is encouraging. They produce their own trade shows and could directly steer all/a lot of that business into our new facility. The more shows and business we get, I'm sure the better off they'll do. Also, it seems that our new CC will be targeting a specific area of trade shows/conventions: the medical field. I'm not going to get redundant about how Cleveland fits that niche. Make any sense? I don't believe that the MM people would be interested in coming here if they didn't think this could be successful.

Have you thought about any of this? This project isn't as simple as you're attempting to make it. If we screw this up, some other city will happily jump all over this, but at least we'll have that extra quarter in our pocket on that next $100 purchase. :roll:

 

Renovating the old convention center would bring in construction jobs.

 

Remeber there are two hotels within the tower city complex.

 

This going to a  tower city center savior,and the ranters are going to profit from it. Hell why dont we just give him 50 million dollars to leave the city.

 

Look you are all being brainwashed and Ranters are loving it.

^Its not always a bad thing if a private company makes some money in this city.

IF you want to raise the tax,then use it for a Subway system.

"^Its not always a bad thing if a private company makes some money in this city."

 

Unless you're a Congressman from the West side. True, Forest City has made quite a pretty penny and been given a lot - however, this is one case where I don't mind so much. Do I want strict oversight? Yes. Do I want some contingency plans to keep taxpayers from footing the bill for flub-ups? Absolutely. However, I do see this as a good opportunity to build on one of this area's greatest strengths and there's no brainwashing here.

 

Edsiou, you truly seem like a good guy and I'm sure you have good intentions and I'm glad you're part of the forum. However, with some (not all, but some) of your posts - they're so fragmented and difficult to read that they're bordering on incoherent. I'm guilty of it too when my temper gets the better of me, but maybe try to slow down and re-read your post before you click the button. I imagine people might give you less flak and your points would come across more clearly :-)

^Its not always a bad thing if a private company makes some money in this city.

 

 

^Why would want to raise tax for a system of submarine sandwich franchise?  Big waste money adn only 2 employees at store.

"^Its not always a bad thing if a private company makes some money in this city."

 

Unless you're a Congressman from the West side. True, Forest City has made quite a pretty penny and been given a lot - however, this is one case where I don't mind so much. Do I want strict oversight? Yes. Do I want some contingency plans to keep taxpayers from footing the bill for flub-ups? Absolutely. However, I do see this as a good opportunity to build on one of this area's greatest strengths and there's no brainwashing here.

 

Edsiou, you truly seem like a good guy and I'm sure you have good intentions and I'm glad you're part of the forum. However, with some (not all, but some) of your posts - they're so fragmented and difficult to read that they're bordering on incoherent. I'm guilty of it too when my temper gets the better of me, but maybe try to slow down and re-read your post before you click the button. I imagine people might give you less flak and your points would come across more clearly :-)

 

THe medical field is at its peek.We have to figure the energy crisis that is right now in the for front of everything. There should be a building selling new energy devices not medical devices

There should be a building selling new energy devices not medical devices

 

Hypothetically what types of "new energy devices" would be sold at this building?

IF you want to raise the tax,then use it for a Subway system.

 

The RTA already gets 4 times the tax income (1%)than this new tax for the CC/MM (.25%)

 

Is it me or is anyone more confused then they were yesterday, in regard to posts made by edsiou?  :wtf:

Is it me or is anyone more confused then they were yesterday, in regard to posts made by edsiou?   :wtf:

 

It's not just you, its definitely not just you!!

 

 

THe medical field is at its peek.We have to figure the energy crisis that is right now in the for front of everything. There should be a building selling new energy devices not medical devices

 

when an industry is a) recession proof and b) currently 16% of the GDP and growing you don't ignore it.

Is it me or is anyone more confused then they were yesterday, in regard to posts made by edsiou?   

 

It’s almost like a cyclone rolled through and now were trying to pickup the pieces.  :laugh:

Sense make post me no edisu klatu baratta nickto.

Sense make post me no edisu klatu baratta nickto.

 

Awesome!

Now it all makes sense, my little orphan annie decoder pin has arrived.

 

 

Anyway, back on topic....

THe medical field is at its peek.We have to figure the energy crisis that is right now in the for front of everything. There should be a building selling new energy devices not medical devices

 

Come on...let's stop with the anecdotal comments and let's start with reality. Is the market for energy production a booming field? Yes....but to say that the medical field has peaked....that is ridiculous. Look at the market, look at the trends in demographic shifts, look at the percentage of our local economy that the Medical industry makes up and the surge in which that percentage has grown (in the past 4 years alone it has grown 25%!).

 

Medicine and Medical Technology are not just the future, they are our present. Finally, instead of us continually looking to the day when we will have a strong industry again in Cleveland....we have one! And it isn't an industry that is doing well just in comparison to other cities of our size or of our region. Cleveland's Medical prowess competes on a global scale. This is an industry that TODAY, has put us on the world map! Royal families fly from around the globe to Cleveland for care. Doctors and industry professionals recognize Cleveland's a source of leading medical research. Companies recognize a fertile soil here in Cleveland to develop new medical technology and millions of dollars in investment is happening every year as a result.

 

There is a reason that Merchandise Properties has invested over $500,000 to research the possibility of a Medical Mart here. They see the potential and they know the market. This isn't a "good Samaritan" gesture to a struggling city; this is a business investment in a thriving Medical Capital of the world. Here are some reasons that this project is perfect for us:

 

• The Economist Intelligence Unit posted a report on the top cities in the world for Business travel (http://www.economist.com/media/pdf/BUSINESS_TRIP_INDEX.pdf). They ranked 127 cities, worldwide. Cleveland was ranked 6....in the world. Why is this so import? People who attend medical conventions, unless you are a higher up doctor/surgeon, pay their own way to attend the convention. They need to for their constant training needs. Because of this, conventions try to locate places that have a lower cost for people to travel to. Considering Cleveland's affordability, its high ranking on the business travelers index, a medical mart that showcases that latest in medical technology and its reputation as a leader in Health Care.....what convention wouldn't want to locate here?
  
• This project is so much more about attracting a medical mart than it is about building a convention center. Medical Mart needs to have a convention facility because of the convention traffic they create. So really, what we are talking about is how badly to we want a major 100 million dollar company to move to Cleveland? A company that by itself will fill 800,000 sq ft. of one our city's signature buildings. A company that will draw tens of thousands of people down the newly created Euclid Corridor (driving economic investment along the corridor and renewing the energy of Cleveland's most cherished avenue). A company that is looking to create a medical mart that would create one of the only places in the WORLD where an individual can go see all the latest in medical technology, watch those devices be used in the top hospitals in the world, and purchase those devices to take back with them.
  
• Aside from the medical mart, the construction of a new convention center will allow us to draw in other conventions that typically locate out in the burbs...thus increasing the development and economic impact to Downtown. We would have a world class facility to attract events like the RNC and other major boosts to this city.

 

 

Do i really need to go on? For a mere quarter of a percent raise in the sales tax...we are reaping so much more. As to where the convention center should be placed...it should be connected to Tower City and finally allow for the development along the Cuyahoga. In addition to the development this would bring to the Tower City side of the river....hopefully this would finally jump start the Ratners into developing Scranton Peninsula. It has sat vacant for far too long and it is time to move forward.

I guess I'm just cynical. One of the most exciting things for me is to hear about new developments in Cleveland. But I've heard so many politicians over the years and so many big projects that were supposed to spur activity that it's easy for me to worry that this is just another quick band-aid (no pun intended .. medical .. heh) project designed to jump start the economy but instead quickly loses steam. Given the reasons listed, it's probably a good risk, and I don't wanna be another Cleveland naysayer, but it's a tough call for me and something that definitely needs some wise decision-making and the community's full support. Is this Medical Mart definitely something that this community needs? I hope so. I'm reluctant to say yes.

jpop...yes.

 

This is something that is very different then gateway or any other incorrectly labeled "silver bullet" issues.

 

urban manna and I listed numerous reasons why this is needed.

I understand, and I've read the reasons. But I'm still skeptical, I guess. But that's just me. I hope I get proven wrong.

urban manna - very well stated.  We're on the same page except where the convention center location is concerned.

 

the current center is city owned and we wouldn't have to pay a lease on it if it was renovated and expended north.  

 

If its located at towercity, it won't be owned by the city but the rats and we'd have to lease it and in 20 years we'll be at the same point we are with the current center.  How is it expandable in an ever changing market?  The Tower city location offers no room for growth.

 

If I'm wrong about that fact please correct me.

jpop,

 

I guess you don't know much about cluster economies. Do you?

You'd be right. Is this Everybody Gang On Jpop And Try To Make Him Feel Like An Idiot Day? :) You're right. I don't have a degree in urban planning. Or whatever degree covers cluster economies. I'm voicing my opinions on issues in the way that I see them. Just because I don't have a degree in this stuff doesn't make me less allowed to speak my mind.

 

Now that I got that off my chest, let's hear about cluster economies. :)

You'd be right. Is this Everybody Gang On Jpop And Try To Make Him Feel Like An Idiot Day? :)

 

No, but we can make it UrbanOhio holiday if the HBIC & HNIC issue an imperial decree.  :-D

Hahaha .. as much as I'd appreciate the attention, I'd rather not. :)

^Great post jpop!  Way to speak the mind.  There is a difference between this silver bullet project and others.  Cleveland is making the effort to create a unique center for the medical fileld in conjunction with a unique convention center that won't be in stiff competition with the other centers nationwide.  With the mart, we will create that niche market for medical conferences and shows unlike any other mid-sized American city that boasts a new convention center within the last 10 years.  With the stadiums, we are drawing locals into the city to check out a stadium and a team, a concept that exists in over 40 other American and Canadian cities.  So is this silver bullet, sure, but on this one, you will see spin off.  Were the other projects silver bullet, sure, but we never saw massive spin off.

Thanks! Hey, I'm for anything that spurs development and long-lasting economic growth. I love Cleveland, and I love to see it succeed. Let's hope it all works out well! :)

For the record, I don't know what a cluster economy is either

Great post, urban manna! I'm ready to start building this thing right now.

After all the info that has been presented, I don't see how anyone could be against the move to bring the MM here; I do recognize the debate between building the CC behind TC or renovating the existing one. I favor a new CC behind TC, though I acknowledge the opposing viewpoint has benefits, too. A decision needs to be reached on this, and I think we know where it's going to go. :wink:

I don't understand why anyone would think the tower city site is best when

 

A - Isn't a LARGE problem with the current convention space and expansion issues?

B - the transportation option is minimal when there will be a new hotel built on site and the Marriott expanding

 

Tower City to the current facility is a short walk regardless of time of year and IIRC the new center will have a western entrance/exit.  I don't want to hear sh*t about people being exposed to our weather as that is just an excuse for people to be sucked in off the street to TC.

 

Why put all our eggs in one basket and pay for a space the city wont own.  We'll just be back to square one repeating the same sh*t in 45 years.

 

UGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!  :x

I'm asking, What would the planner of a convention value more,

 

        A convention center with all of the shopping, entertainment, etc right there (TC)

 

        Or the current site with a few new hotels, restaurants and access to the WHD?

   

        Basically, which site has the MOST potential to say "We've got to have this thing in Cleveland again next year it was so convienent, nice, beautiful, (insert positive adjective)."

MTS, how could the Marriott expand? There's no setback from the sidewalk other than the porte cochere.