Crains says that they are down to three locations:

 

 

Med mart field narrowed to 3 areas 

 

Merchandise Mart Properties Inc.

Cuyahoga County

 

By JAY MILLER

 

1:40 pm, December 6, 2007

 

Planners for a new convention center and medical merchandise mart are moving close to a site decision, but they may not make their choice by a self-imposed year-end deadline.

 

Mark Falanga, senior vice president of Merchandise Mart Properties Inc., and Fred Nance, the negotiator for the Cuyahoga County commissioners, said at a press conference today that they have not yet even decided what part of town to put the meeting complex.

 

Mr. Falanga ticked off three areas in still in contention, narrowed from 13 sites initially considered. They are a downtown location; the Midtown neighborhood, east of downtown; and an area near the city’s so-called “medical infrastructure,” which encompasses the Cleveland Clinic and University Hospitals of Cleveland, which are east of Midtown and into University Circle.

 

more at: http://www.crainscleveland.com/

 

 

 

One downtown location...wonder which one.

 

I still think that even if it is in midtown, the visitors will still come to downtown, and still stay downtown.  They will just hop in a cab, shuttle or even the silver line to go to the convention.

 

While downtown is good, it is not as unique as university circle.  So if visitors never make it downtown, but spend a day there, it may leave a more lasting impression on them.

 

Just a thought

I can't even think of where there is room to do this in UC.  And since this is $400 million of public money, why is everything being done in secret?  Total BS.

^^^ Unfortunately it appears they are swapping the words "sites" for "areas" and really not telling us anything new in the story.  At least people are writing about it and keeping it in the foreground.  The sooner a deal that works for all parties involved is announced the better.

I agree. I read it as if there still could be many sites. It has to go downtown. I'm assuming that medical mart is just using the midtown and UC sites as leverage to get the best deal them MM downtown.

it's going to end up down town at the higbee building. there's too many political forces at work and on top of it... it makes too much sense.

Listen to yesterday’s press conference.

 

[mp3=200,20,0,center]http://cosegcpartnership.media.libsynpro.com/gcp/medical_mart_press_conference_12-6-07.mp3[/mp3]

Mike Trivisonno is currently interviewing two men - Fred Nancy and Dennis Roach - who, I believe, work for the Chamber of Commerce and Convention Bureau. They are talking about the Convention  Center and the Medical Mart, in particular the money they will bring in (200 million a year at least) and the number of jobs.  Pretty interesting interview, for once Triv isn't being a huge dick.

Would Scranton Peninsula work for the location of both the CC and the MM?  Is there enough size, and could roads be reconfigured for easy highway access for trucks?

(toss up question)

Punch,

As intriguing as that idea (Scranton Pen) is, I'd still rather have the MM occupy the old Higbee or May Co bldgs before building something new. I would prefer to leave the SP for future mixed-use/residential, especially having all that river frontage. Put the CC behind TC, expand and upgrade TC, put the MM in the May Co bldg, and renovate the Higbee bldg into an upscale hotel. At least that's how I would like to see it play out.

Punch,

 

If you put it on Scranton Peninsula, then it would be cut off from the rest of downtown. The rest of downtown would not be able to benefit from the the development.  We need to maximize the spin off effect of this development.

Stumbled upon this recently:

 

http://www.tradeshowweek.com/article/CA6504441.html

 

Not really anything groundbreaking in this but it does say "All parties interested in the answer to that question – the CVB, local officials and Merchandise Mart – agree that whatever is built will include a medical mart, 500,000 sq. ft. of permanent show space modeled after Chicago's Merchandise Mart"

 

It goes on the say the rest of the convention center would be 300,000 sq. ft. of exhibit space and 200,000 for meeting space. So 500,000 for the medical mart? -- seems that's way more square footage than I've seen mentioned anywhere else. Could be a mistake...

wow its excellent to see this thread back at the top of the list. even though its no new news... good to remember its being worked on!

 

heres to a med mart and convention center DOWNTOWN!  :drunk:

I'm going to a DCA meeting on the 9th and they are supposedly going to cover the progress on this in depth.  It will be interesting to here what they have to say.

I'll see you there.

Things to take with you:

 

1. Camera.

2. Notebook.

3. Working pen.

4. Laptop if you got it.

5. Camera.

 

Things to take away with you:

 

1. All printed materials available.

2. Notes - detailed notes.

 

Thank you :-)

I really hope this all works out, but I'm glad they will not continue to tax us for this project if it isn't even close to coming to fruition.

 

From the PD:

County Commissioner Tim Hagan has given Medical Mart developers a 60-day deadline for choosing a location and making a specific investment commitment.

 

"We can't continue to levy a tax without them moving forward," Hagan said.

 

Cuyahoga County's sales tax rose from 7.5 to 7.75 percent in October to raise money for a new convention center. Commissioners, however, said they wouldn't invest in a new center without an accompanying Medical Mart.

 

The division in cost hasn't been settled.

 

Another holdup is location. Local leaders want the complex downtown. But the private Chicago-based company that proposed the mart prefers a location near the Cleveland Clinic and University Hospitals.

 

"It has to be downtown," Hagan said. "That's not negotiable."

 

I seriously hope that they are bluffing on this deadline.  I mean... really... if you had your choice of having the medical mart in UC or not in Cleveland at all... what would be your decision?  Of course I would like it downtown, but this project is too important to our local economy to be lost all together.

I seriously hope that they are bluffing on this deadline.  I mean... really... if you had your choice of having the medical mart in UC or not in Cleveland at all... what would be your decision?  Of course I would like it downtown, but this project is too important to our local economy to be lost all together.

 

But, if the goal is to have a convention center attached to the med mart, the new CC would have to be built outside of downtown, away from entertainment and hotels.

Good for Timmy.  For once, I'm in total agreement w/ him.

 

Building the MM out near the hospitals deep-6's a new convention center and damages downtown.  Just because we're Cleeeeevland (Al Michaels loves to mock the name), we ought not be pushed around by these people ... much like we've been pushed around by the R&RHOF folks viz the induction ceremony; at least until last month... This esp after we made the 1st commitment by setting the tax for a new cc in an economically struggling city & metro region.  As Hagan says, it's a public-private partnership.  We've done our public part, now what about them?...  And consider the precedent it would set to cede such key city planning to an out-of-towner simply b/c they have a fat wallet?

 

An important project, yes, but if these Chicago folks can't commit to specific investment and if they don't build downtown by the deadline, then let 'em walk.   We’ll find another investor; the blueprint is there.  Despite their oft curmudgeonly attitudes, neither CC nor UH are going anywhere.

 

Honest non-rhetorical question: how do conventioneers visiting Chicago, New York or Boston (using the newer facilities on the waterfront) manage being so far from the hotels, restaurants and city attractions?

^Good Q.  I've been to Chicago's McCormick Place and NYC's (Javitz Center?).  Don't know Boston's at all... My take is that with each of these, it's an inconvenience, but they have the advantage over our Midtown in stronger transit facilities, direct rail to downtown.  Other advantages these places have allowing them to build outside of their downtowns are: stronger downtowns that don't need confectioner's direct spending as much as we do and stronger neighborhoods/less decay between their cc's and downtown than do we viz Midtown; currently, at least.

 

 

But, if the goal is to have a convention center attached to the med mart, the new CC would have to be built outside of downtown, away from entertainment and hotels.

 

Why? The two primary locations (Tower City and existing convention center site) would offer having the Medical Mart and convention center attached. There is enough room at either site for both facilities.

 

And I've never taken Al Michaels pronunciation of Cleeeve-land to be mocking. I guess it suits one's purposes in regards to your general feelings about the city. If you like Cleveland, you think of it as "Yeah Cleeeve-land." If you don't, you don't.

He's been pronouncing Cleveland Cleeeve-land for as long as I can remember. I always assumed it was an accent and nothing more.

Honest non-rhetorical question: how do conventioneers visiting Chicago, New York or Boston (using the newer facilities on the waterfront) manage being so far from the hotels, restaurants and city attractions?

 

Well, as for Chicago, the area is actually being built around it.  I actually know that they are building an entertainment district next to it.  It will be spectacular!! :-D

But, if the goal is to have a convention center attached to the med mart, the new CC would have to be built outside of downtown, away from entertainment and hotels.

 

Why? The two primary locations (Tower City and existing convention center site) would offer having the Medical Mart and convention center attached. There is enough room at either site for both facilities.

 

And I've never taken Al Michaels pronunciation of Cleeeve-land to be mocking. I guess it suits one's purposes in regards to your general feelings about the city. If you like Cleveland, you think of it as "Yeah Cleeeve-land." If you don't, you don't.

 

I was talking hypothetically, if the med mart was built in Uni circle, not saying that it HAS to be built outside of downtown. I prefer it in the CBD.

^Good Q.  I've been to Chicago's McCormick Place and NYC's (Javitz Center?).  Don't know Boston's at all... My take is that with each of these, it's an inconvenience, but they have the advantage over our Midtown in stronger transit facilities, direct rail to downtown.  Other advantages these places have allowing them to build outside of their downtowns are: stronger downtowns that don't need confectioner's direct spending as much as we do and stronger neighborhoods/less decay between their cc's and downtown than do we viz Midtown; currently, at least.

 

Hmm, I'd have to say Midtown Cleveland has better transit access for convention purposes than the Javitz center, which is more than half a mile away from the nearest subway station.  Don't know much about McCormick Place, but isn't is served just by commuter rail?  I take your point about decay in Midtown though- it's not exactly the city's best face at this point in time.  Still, I don't think I'd throw a fit of the Convention Center and Med Mart ended up on Euclid east of downtown somewhere.  But it would have to be on Euclid.

Where exactly is Midtown?

 

 

Putting the technical boundaries aside, I think people generally use "Midtown" to describe the area between downtown and University Circle/Cleveland Clinic along Chester/Euclid/Prospect/Carnegie.

Yeah, pretty much what StrapHangar said.  Visual:  http://midtowncleveland.org/location.asp

^^ You know, StrapHanger, I think you're right about Javitz -- I remember having to take my GF over to her exhibit by taxi...

 

I guess the overarching point is simply: it's New York.  The name is traveler magic -- a convention is going to want to be in/near the City even if the thing were across the river in Hoboken, NJ.  Their reputation, along with the mega-power of their downtown, gives them that luxury. Ditto Chicago... We don't have that.  No one likes to hear it, but our reputation is still generally bad in the travel industry.  We're still lumped in, often, with Detroit or Buffalo or even, sometimes, Newark, NJ.  Unfair, perhaps, but it is what it is, and probably why the MM folks think they can come in here and call the shots. ... We've accomplished much but our downtown still needs a serious economic shot in the arm.  MM downtown -- Tower City (my preference) or the old site would give that to it.  Univ Circle or Midtown (immediately to the west of the Clinic campus) will not and, in fact, Hagan is telling us/MM that if it's built there, the commissioners will recind the sales tax and an MM inspired convention center, new or expanded, will not be built.  Makes perfect sense.

No disagreement here about Cleveland's rep in the travel industry...which is why I can understand why the MM folks want to build near the one part of Cleveland's rep that is strong.  I guess I just doubt the magic of the convention center as a big shot in the arm for Downtown, and to the extent it will be, not sure how much moving it a few miles a way will hurt.  Guests still have to stay in hotels and still have to eat, and I doubt all the visitor infrastructure downtown would be replicated in Midtown at Downtown's expense.  Don't worry- all things being equal, I agree that the Tower City site is probably the best and will probably win out.  Will certainly be interesting to see this thing play out over the next couple months.

I'm assuming that the MM folks would have no problem if it were downtown. I'd bet that they are using the midtown/UC location as a bargaining chip so that they can get more money out of the county when they finally agree to put it downtown.

Or it could all be a show (with the county in on the tactic) to negotiate a better deal from Forest City.

^Ugh, I'd hope it was more along the lines of 3231's comment, but you never know....

 

Re: 3231's comments:  That was what I was always thinking that MM was doing -- trying to leverage the county (and/or property owners) using the "multiple potential sites" and "multiple potential locations" strategy - but this has dragged on long enough that I've been getting worried that they really do want it in Midtown, or nowhere else.  I hope you're right.

Here is a question-- what the heck would be done with the current convention center if there is a new one built over by TC?

^Start cracking on the other 47 pages of this thread.

^Yeah right.  Don't remember how much we even discussed that question other than pointing out the CC's potential use as movie studios.

.

^ Well put, our health care system in Cleveland will only support the Medical Mart, not carry it. 

Oengus1963, thats exactly what Im starting to think, I initially thought it was a great idea for Cleveland, but after reading about a similar, failed attempt somewhere down south (not sure if it was on here, but couldnt find now)  Im very leary for all the reasons you mentioned.  The article stated that the business model does not work... pretty much exactly what you said. 

I guess if Merchandise Mart is willing to bare the costs, but was wondering if in conjunction with the Medical conventions they promised to bring, could it make any difference?

Also, wasnt the Clinic a big proponent of getting a Mart here?  If so, why?   

^I'm skeptical, but I remember reading the failed Alabama attempt and thinking that it was watered down as compared to what could happen here.

 

 

if you scroll back on the thread there is also news of a plan to build a mm in a new tower near the javits, so alabama aside there is further mm competition planned. not sure of others, although i'd guess someplace like minneapolis might have ideas about about one. however, i think the cleve is in the lead on this now. i also think they can bury them all if they can iron out these pesky details and git'r done reasonably quickly. what we dont want is multiple mm's going up around the country.

This should make Nance's job much easier in determining where the MM should go if Cuyahoga county only wants it downtown.  Instead of doing cost/benefit analysis on 13 locations he can narrow that all down to 2.  It seems like everyone is pretty much in agreement on here about this.  Hell we're even agreeing with the County Commissioners! :|

Oengus1963, thats exactly what Im starting to think, I initially thought it was a great idea for Cleveland, but after reading about a similar, failed attempt somewhere down south (not sure if it was on here, but couldnt find now)  Im very leary for all the reasons you mentioned.  The article stated that the business model does not work... pretty much exactly what you said. 

I guess if Merchandise Mart is willing to bare the costs, but was wondering if in conjunction with the Medical conventions they promised to bring, could it make any difference?

Also, wasnt the Clinic a big proponent of getting a Mart here?  If so, why?   

^I've read stuff along these same lines; I can remember one of the commissioners saying (Crain's article?) that IF the MM & CC are built in/near UC, and the Med Mart's business model doesn't work/fails....the County will still be on the hook for a new CC in UC that is disconnected from downtown hotels/attractions/etc. That is not an option and I'm 100% in agreement with them on this. It HAS to go downtown. Even if this entire project comes to fruition and the Med Mart does fail (hope not) we've still got a new, updated CC downtown that could hopefully complement the rest of the projects going on down there, i.e. Wolstein, Stark, etc.

    All that aside, I really hope that these MM people HAVE done their homework and this DOES prove to be a successful, profitable enterprise; for them and us.

Exactly, you don't want an investment of a new convention center going outside of downtown because of a concept that is questionable.  I guess MM people also think that near the clinic would be a bigger draw for the promised medical conventions that they would bring..?

 

Also, you'd think with the talk of the failed attempts elsewhere and of the "failed business model" that they would go to great lengths to tell us why this wouldn't be the case here....  As in what would be different here that would make it a success..?

 

As well as what do the proposers in NY think would make it different that they think they could do it successfully?  Other than its not Alabama?  A failed business model is a failed business model not matter where it is, no?     

i think it's important, wherever they put it, that the cleve really steps up and "owns" the mm concept. by that i mean the whole package needs to be pushed: architecture, professionalism, services, amenities, marketing, development, etc. otherwise, other new mm's could cut in on it.

 

do it first & do it very well -- make anyone think competing is a pointless venture.

^Definitely.  No room to skimp on design, etc.

I'm going to a DCA meeting on the 9th and they are supposedly going to cover the progress on this in depth.  It will be interesting to here what they have to say.

^Anything new to report?? :-D

Nope. That meeting was pretty much a total waste of time.