January 11, 200817 yr I wouldn't say it was a total waste of time... there were some interesting tidbits to pick up on for various things... but when it came to their report on the medical mart... it was pretty much a total waste of time.
January 16, 200817 yr Wow, interesting headline in the PD: Medical Mart backers will seek new partner if first deal fails http://blog.cleveland.com/metro/2008/01/if_first_deal_fails_med_mart_b.html Some choice bits: MMPI is still the top choice because of its expertise and history with the project, County Commissioner Tim Hagan said. But two major companies have expressed an interest in pursuing the mart if a deal can't be reached, he said. As for location, the county insists on a downtown address. MMPI prefers a University Circle location near hospitals and the medical community. The company chose Cleveland for its strong health care industry, Falanga said, and a location near the hospitals would make it more convenient for mart tenants and visitors to do business and for local nurses, doctors, researchers and other health care workers to attend events at the mart.
February 11, 200817 yr I don't know how to feel about this right now... I was hoping that they would have made a decision by now and announced it since we are about half way through the 60 day timeline for action. Can we trust MMPI to run the site? I know that they run 300 trade shows a year... but giving them management over the property (I'm thinking Tower City's history as a lesson for the city)? On top of that, are medical conventions the only conventions that the city should be holding? What about other conventions? Will MMPI know how to manage those as well? I just don't know...
February 11, 200817 yr that chart is misleading. People will translate that into "very little business" now if they had put a companion chart with conventions, mettings, seminars, conferences held at every location in Cleveland then broken down by venue - it would paint a clearer picture. On top of that, are medical conventions the only conventions that the city should be holding? What about other conventions? Will MMPI know how to manage those as well? I just don't know... Medical conventions are not the only conventions this will be for. The merchandise mart is specifically for the medical trade, however, the "new" convention center would be multipurpose as is the current convention center and IX center. Oldmanladyluck's question, tell me that many, many people have no idea what a "merchandise mart" is.
February 11, 200817 yr I don't seem to have a problem with who runs it, so long as the City's interests are protected, ie, we get access for other large scale conventions we need to have it. My guess is this arrangement, since used widely, is a econ benefit to the host city and can take a burden off the tax rolls. We must also, obviously, negotiate a fair operating (agreement) price. This article didn't mention where the negotiations were on where the MM/CC will be located. It MUST be downtown. We should not give an inch on this. We're the only major city I know of that has its large-scale convention center at the edge of town -- over 10 miles away from the city center. The IX center is killing downtown. It's big, but it's a wasteland, face it; in the middle of nowhere. And I know it's fashionable for some on this board to pooh-pooh the benefits of a CC. They may not be the "magic bullet" but other cities are building and expanding theirs and making them boost their cities. Indianapolis, for example, a much smaller city than Cleveland, is tearing down the RCA dome to expand its convention center (oh yeah, and their new home for the Colts, which is just outside downtown, will the retractable Browns stadium should have had so it will have multiple uses unlike our lakefront-blocking edifice). And, because of its convention center, Indy has (at a quick glance) at least 3 hotels larger than our largest hotel (Renaissance at a measly 472 rooms), including Marriott - 615 rooms, Westin – 573 rooms, and Hyatt – 497 rooms (plus, Indy has 4, AAA 4-diamond hotels to our 1, the Ritz, of course). Again, we're talking little Indianapolis, not NY or Chicago or even Philly ... Frankly, I don't know of any major city that has as few downtown hotel rooms as Cleveland... Many of Indy’s bigs are attached to its CC. ... Bottom line, we need to get what's best for Cleveland re this MM proposal, but we need to get it done. Our downtown desperately needs it.
February 11, 200817 yr I agree with you. But I think this decision also needs to made very wisely. This is something Cleveland will have to live with for years, contractually and physically in terms of new buildings. I understand the city is in dire straits in terms of its economy and population base. But it shouldn't make decisions desperately. Wisdom and patience, not desperation, should be the guiding force behind decision-making. I feel like desperation has been the driving force for way too long now. It's always been "But the city really needs this now!" That's understandable. But I think Cleveland needs to consider many other factors carefully before jumping into decisions like this.
February 11, 200817 yr I understand the city is in dire straits in terms of its economy and population base. But it shouldn't make decisions desperately. You should write for the Post.
February 11, 200817 yr I agree with you. But I think this decision also needs to made very wisely. This is something Cleveland will have to live with for years, contractually and physically in terms of new buildings. I understand the city is in dire straits in terms of its economy and population base. But it shouldn't make decisions desperately. Wisdom and patience, not desperation, should be the guiding force behind decision-making. I feel like desperation has been the driving force for way too long now. It's always been "But the city really needs this now!" That's understandable. But I think Cleveland needs to consider many other factors carefully before jumping into decisions like this. Good points. I don't disagree.
February 11, 200817 yr I understand the city is in dire straits in terms of its economy and population base. But it shouldn't make decisions desperately. You should write for the Post. Okay. Maybe dire straits is a bit strong. But the economy certainly isn't robust.
February 11, 200817 yr I understand the city is in dire straits in terms of its economy and population base. But it shouldn't make decisions desperately. You should write for the Post. Okay. Maybe dire straits is a bit strong. But the economy certainly isn't robust. Nor is it as slow as people claim it is. right?
February 11, 200817 yr that chart is misleading. People will translate that into "very little business" now if they had put a companion chart with conventions, mettings, seminars, conferences held at every location in Cleveland then broken down by venue - it would paint a clearer picture. On top of that, are medical conventions the only conventions that the city should be holding? What about other conventions? Will MMPI know how to manage those as well? I just don't know... Medical conventions are not the only conventions this will be for. The merchandise mart is specifically for the medical trade, however, the "new" convention center would be multipurpose as is the current convention center and IX center. Oldmanladyluck's question, tell me that many, many people have no idea what a "merchandise mart" is. No, I understand what the company does (even more so after that post!!). From their site..."MPI is one of the largest trade and consumer show producers in North America. Each year, we mount more than 300 trade and consumer shows, conventions, conferences, educational programs and special events that bring buyers and sellers together". Looks good to me.
February 12, 200817 yr You should write for the Post. I swear I saw you reading the Post MTS when I passed you on the street today.. haha.
February 12, 200817 yr Maybe he was reading jpop's Cleveland article. :) I am all for MMPI running the Convention Center. I'm not really sure why they'd want to, though. Isn't the advantage of a convention center the boost to the local economy it brings, not that it actually makes any money in and of itself? I thought this was the reason most were operated by their respective cities. It seems to me like a win-win for Cleveland and a lose-lose for MMPI.
February 12, 200817 yr ^Maybe if it was run for profit, it would be more successful. I don't recall any convention centers that turn a profit. (and note the source of the "revenues" for the Cleveland Convention Center)
February 12, 200817 yr ^Maybe if it was run for profit, it would be more successful. I don't recall any convention centers that turn a profit. (and note the source of the "revenues" for the Cleveland Convention Center) Pope is correct, the centers themselves don't always turn a profit, sans Orlando or Vegas, but the spin off surrounding the convention centers (and nearby merchandise marts) can be very profitable. For instance, Dallas has low convention attendance but has an extremely successful merchandise mart that keeps nearby hotels, restaurants, stores, car rental/car services quite busy. Washington DC, new center, resulted in a ton of new hotels/hotel conversions near the center and the fact that its a very walkable city help the new center attracted more business in its initial year. The downside, lack of an bad restaurants and location is in an "iffy" area, with bad traffic and congestion problems.
February 26, 200817 yr Deadline nears for Chicago-based company's Medical Mart concept Posted by Sarah Hollander February 25, 2008 20:26PM Time is running out for the Chicago-based company that championed the Medical Mart concept. Cuyahoga County expects to know in about a week whether it has a deal with Merchandise Mart Properties Inc., Commissioner Tim Hagan said. There's still a gap between the company's offer and the amount of private investment required, said attorney Fred Nance, who is negotiating on the county's behalf... more at: http://www.cleveland.com/medicalmart/
February 26, 200817 yr Anyone here hip to large business negotiations? I don't know if we should be waiting this long, especially when the county is showing that we want the Medical Mart here by enacting the sales tax. Hopefully, within the next week or so, we'll hear good news. I'd rather MM run this idea instead of some other company.
February 26, 200817 yr I agree, but I don't want the city to bend over backwards and approve some deal that isn't fair for both the county and MMPI. I don't think they should be completely profiting from this deal while the county has to completely pay for the whole thing.
February 26, 200817 yr ^It would not be a public/private partnership if we had to pay for everything. The county saying "we'll pay for everything, and you can run it and profit from it" is unacceptable in this day (I know... Gateway, Browns Staduim, etc., but I don't think the public in this region is willing to take much more of that). The most we have to gain is the economic stimulus this will bring to the region, and also the further change in perception of the city, of which local residents (in my opinion) need the most.
February 26, 200817 yr well one thing we have to look foward to is that next year, most of the developments we saw take advantage of tax breaks, will start to pay taxes next year. many buildings that used tax breaks and had to start as rentals, I suspect will switch over to coops or condos. in the next few years. This will bring new renters to the market.
February 27, 200817 yr Cuyahoga County might pay back sales tax if medical mart project fails If a deal fails, county is in a bind Wednesday, February 27, 2008 Sarah Hollander Plain Dealer Reporter If plans for a new Cleveland convention center and medical mart collapse, what would happen with the pot of sales tax money collected for the project? One Cuyahoga County commissioner said he's researching the possibility of reimbursing residents through a temporary sales tax reduction or a sales tax holiday. "I hope for this community's sake that we can reach a deal," Commissioner Peter Lawson Jones said. "But if we can't, we've got to give the money back.".. more at: http://www.cleveland.com/medicalmart/
February 28, 200817 yr http://blog.cleveland.com/medical/2008/02/philadelphiabased_smg_world_al.html Philadelphia-based SMG also interested in a Cleveland Medical Mart Posted by Sarah Hollander February 28, 2008 15:53PM SMG is one of the companies that may be interested in running a new convention center in Cleveland if a deal with Chicago-based Merchandise Mart Properties, Inc. falls through. The company manages convention centers-including those in Pittsburgh and Columbus, stadiums, arenas and other venues around the world...
February 28, 200817 yr Sounds like they are slowly preparing us for some news tha MM is pulling out of the negotiations. I'd bet that we would here something after the elections next week.
February 28, 200817 yr ^yeah, and/or they're publicly leaking a competitor's name in order to apply some leverage.
February 28, 200817 yr ^yeah, and/or they're publicly leaking a competitor's name in order to apply some leverage. thats what I'm thinking. However, nothing wrong with having a little competition.
February 29, 200817 yr Would SMG operate a "Medical Mart" or are they just interested in running the new CC? The article wasn't clear on that.
February 29, 200817 yr Interesting blog post from the Tech Czar, formerly of the Campbell administration, on the beginnings of the Medical Mart discussions. http://techczar.blog.com/2794179/
February 29, 200817 yr Would SMG operate a "Medical Mart" or are they just interested in running the new CC? The article wasn't clear on that. I thought it was the County's position that a new CC is not worth the expense if there is no MM attached.
February 29, 200817 yr Would SMG operate a "Medical Mart" or are they just interested in running the new CC? The article wasn't clear on that. I thought it was the County's position that a new CC is not worth the expense if there is no MM attached. ^That's exactly what I was thinking; the article only mentioned SMG's interest in running a new convention center. Did they mean a 'Medical Mart'/CC? The article was not clear. Anyone have further info?
March 1, 200817 yr The tech czar's blog item is pretty upsetting. I'd never heard about the hotel/rental car tax proposal -- a fairer way to make those who would use the MM to pay for it. But I had heard that nothing with the MM would be pursued until Dimora's re-election was assured (after this whole mess, he should more concerned about his, and Hagan's, next campaign). I don't blame the Jackson administration so much as I do Beavis and Butthead (Dimora and Hagan). Dimora might be an effective mob boss and Hagan his bagman, but that's about the extent of their capabilities. "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
March 1, 200817 yr On the SMG issue, it seems they would have tried to use that behind closed doors as a leverage point with MMPI. Leaking it to the public seems more like what 3231 postulates -- prep for news that MMPI has dropped out of the deal. Frankly, a Medical Mart run by anyone other than MMPI seems like a risky proposition. MMPI are the only ones who have substantial experience running these things.
March 1, 200817 yr These commissioners are incompetent. Actually, the entire regional government is incompetent. I saw Hagan on Channel 3 "debating" with Stephanie Tubbs Jones about Barack or Hillary and all I could think is: "How can I vote for either of them if these two dummies support them?" Is there a way to remedy this idiocy?
March 1, 200817 yr Yes, encourage someone else to run and then vote for them! "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
March 1, 200817 yr The blog is very eye-opening on the whole situation. I also heard before that nothing would be done before Dimora's reelection. WE HAVE TO GET THESE TWO DUMMIES OUT OF OFFICE!!!
March 1, 200817 yr The Tech Czar offers some interesting, albeit upsetting, inside info... Clearly we need to partner w/ a private co. to run the place as the City neither has the competence (as we see) nor the $$ to do so... I really think the MM folks are ready to bow out. Too many irreconcilable differences. To me, good riddance, and let's get someone in here who truly is interested in enhancing our medical retail community as well as build our city -- that being downtown -- rather than folks who want all the bennies plus the ability to call all the shots. I totally disagree w/ the Czar's premise that MM should be near U.Circle as opposed to downtown, however. To put it there and kill any convention center possibility, makes us more a Phoenix or Houston rather than a Boston or Chicago (the latter, of course, being where we want to be).
March 1, 200817 yr Yes, encourage someone else to run and then vote for them! K J P! K J P! K J P! K J P! K J P!
March 2, 200817 yr You get me a first lady and I'll conquer the world for you. "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
March 5, 200817 yr http://blog.cleveland.com/medical/2008/03/mmpi_has_asked_for_more.html Medical Mart deadline extended by a week Posted by Sarah Hollander March 05, 2008 12:29PM The would-be developer on the Medical Mart/Convention Center project has asked for more time to reach a deal and Cuyahoga County has agreed. Commissioners hoped to know whether they had a deal with Chicago-based Merchandise Mart Properties, Inc. this week, but they're giving the company another week...
March 5, 200817 yr At least he seems to recognize the fact that a true public-private agreement needs to be hammered out. I only hope they get the best deal possible for both parties.
March 5, 200817 yr "Commissioner Tim Hagan said it's a good sign. "I think they want to do something or they would've walked away," he said." Come on Tim, a good sign is if a preliminary deal is reached. Have some higher standards!
March 5, 200817 yr "Commissioner Tim Hagan said it's a good sign. "I think they want to do something or they would've walked away," he said." Come on Tim, a good sign is if a preliminary deal is reached. Have some higher standards! It's Hagan. "standards" and "Hagan" don't mix.
March 6, 200817 yr Lets hope for the best... I'm ready to see more cranes in the air, wherever they are.
March 6, 200817 yr Unlike the botched Breuer Building mess, Hagan's playing this one correctly. He rolled the dice with the sales tax, and it was a proper gamble -- this project could be huge for Cleveland... at the same time, he insisted, the MM people pay their fair share and that the project be downtown and not U. Circle and has put them on a deadline... All sensible moves. And, yes, I like him am encouraged MM wants and extension for it shows they are serious in closing this thing. It's important this gets done with the MM people as we've been dealing with them for 2 years.
March 6, 200817 yr Developer, county to discuss medical mart By JAY MILLER March 6, 2008 By March 13, Northeast Ohio should learn more about the future of a medical merchandise mart for Cleveland, Cuyahoga County Commissioner Jimmy Dimora said today. Mr. Dimora said executives from Merchandise Mart Properties Inc. will be in Cleveland next week to meet with the county commissioners as part of their weekly Thursday meeting. Merchandise Mart Properties has been negotiating with the county to be the operator of a medical mart and an attached convention center. The fate of the medical mart — and Merchandise Mart Properties’ participation in it — has been up in the air as the two sides have failed to reach an agreement on how the project will be financed and operated... more at http://www.crainscleveland.com
March 6, 200817 yr 'The community would go crazy...' The idea of diverting tax money earmarked for a convention center to other uses likely will generate objections from the group that last year sought to have the convention center tax rescinded. And rightfully so! This money was promised for a new convention center project. If it falls through, the money needs to go back to the community. And building a detention center is not my definition of giving taxpayers WHO HAD NO SAY IN THE MATTER their hard-earned money back! That's fucking ridiculous for him to even think about something like that.
March 6, 200817 yr I don't understand how this tax was raised without the Clevelander's vote. Maybe I'm a little confused how taxes work.
March 6, 200817 yr It's a County sales tax. The County Commissioner's can raise taxes by 1/4% without a vote of the people.
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