^aren't those renderings just massings? 

I would think so, and I certainly HOPE so, I don't think that's ever been confirmed. :?

Is alanr Alan Ratner?

The simple question for AlanR and others that support the TC site is this:  if the CC is placed behind TC, then when/why would visitors ever leave TC?  How does this increase foot traffic throughout the CBD?  In my opinion, it doesn't. 

From cleveland.com:

 

Forest City says it can connect Medical Mart with convention center through Tower City Cinemas

Posted by kturner March 18, 2008 20:00PM

Forest City executives think they have found a way to alleviate a major strike against their proposal for Cleveland's new Convention Center-Medical Mart complex.

 

The simple question for AlanR and others that support the TC site is this: if the CC is placed behind TC, then when/why would visitors ever leave TC? How does this increase foot traffic throughout the CBD? In my opinion, it doesn't.

 

The mall site wouldn't increase foot traffic either.

 

If you were looking at Cleveland as a place to hold a convention, would you rather have it at TC or at the Mall? IMHO, TC is much more attractive location for a convention. If we want the CC to be a success, then we have to make it so that it will attract paying customers.

Why wouldn't the Mall increase foot traffic more than TC?

 

Why is TC more marketable than the Mall as a Convention location?  Just because of the indoor rail connection to an indoor megacomplex?  What about access issues, layout issues, expandability, and the like?  How does the TC site address those?

 

The question isn't if we want the CC to be a success, it is why do we want a successful CC.  What do we hope to gain?  I don't think we just inherently like conventioneers and are pleased by having a large number of them somewhere in our fair city.  And I don't think we are doing this so we can create a large architectural masterpiece to look nice on the skyline. 

 

I think we are doing this to bring money into our Downtown, and thus to spur job growth and investment in Downtown real estate.  The question then becomes which site does this better, and spreads the benefits of a substantial public investment most fairly.  Even if, and I am not so sure on this, TC wins on count of being a more marketable CC site, it needs to pass the second test of being the better public investment for the purposes of meeting our ultimate goals in creating a CC.  There really aren't any numbers on this, it is just one gut feeling against another.

The simple question for AlanR and others that support the TC site is this:  if the CC is placed behind TC, then when/why would visitors ever leave TC?  How does this increase foot traffic throughout the CBD?  In my opinion, it doesn't. 

 

The mall site wouldn't increase foot traffic either.

 

If you were looking at Cleveland as a place to hold a convention, would you rather have it at TC or at the Mall? IMHO, TC is much more attractive location for a convention. If we want the CC to be a success, then we have to made it attract to the paying customers.

 

WHY??  Please please please explain why a mall is more attractive location to hold a convention?

 

Since everyone seems to think it wont increase foot traffic.  How do you get there?  when you go out to lunch where do you go and how do you get there.  Isn't not about increase the foot traffic but increase the presence of available amenities to conventioners.  Not everyone needs to be inside the center.

 

As I've stated before, why should TC (the mall) get all the spin off profit from the center being located there?  As stated before the mall location gives all parts of downtown a chance to attract conventioner $$$$$.

 

How many of attend conventions regularly??

I don't buy the indoor TC would kill above-ground foot traffic... Some say TC sucked the life out of lower Euclid when built in 1989.  Maybe but that ignores the decline on Euclid already full throttle -- remember, Euclid had already regressed from upscale shops to dollar store/fast-food alley before TC opened.  Downtown & lower Euclid was much different then: there were no residences like Park build, WT Grant or E.4th apts/the heavy mixed uses there is now. 

 

Foot-traffic.  Again, no Mall-champion has stepped up and explained where all the foot traffic generated from the current site is.  Again, this is Dan Burnham’s revolutionary public institutional building plan (see: no retail there)… So if you rebuild there with no increase in retail there (which I don't see in any Mall plan), why should, magically, this area become Manhattan as Mall-ers are saying?  Mall area is more distant from Lower Euclid and is blocked from WHD by the Justice Center.  It won’t stimulate Pesht as TC has a greater chance being next door.  Indeed, a supplemental hotel could be built on Pesht’s SW flank (near corner of Superior & W. 6th).  Stark needs a spark to get Pesht going; this could be it… Increased back’n forth traffic btw TC/CC and E. 4th/Gateway could influence a retailer to move in May’s old space.

 

No Rapid to Mall site.  I don't buy, re Mall CC, that conventioneers would transfer, schlep bags to the (light rail/low platform) Waterfront Line from the Airport Rapid. One seat, indoor ride (as to TC) is imperative otherwise, people will cab/shuttle it, esp those unfamiliar w/ Cleveland.  Besides, the latitudinal Mall model (the one I’d prefer if only b/c it  contains the big hotel on the County admin site) doesn't extend over the tracks and, seemingly, there’d be no Rapid connection on any RTA line – so good luck in a typical winter storm, visitors!  The airport-to-downtown Rapid is one of Cleveland's major trump cards over other cities.  I'm surprised so many UOers seem so indifferent to it.

 

Notalgia for the Mall site.  Hey I grew up here, too, and have tons of memories of the current CC and Public aud: circuses, home 'n flower shows (too many w/ Mom to count), CSU b-ball games, Ice Capades,... even my HS graduation (@ Music Hall).  Many fond memories.  But that shouldn't be a driving force for rebuilding there.

 

A BIG HOTEL (on either site) isn't discussed enough.  Just being X-minutes from existing hotels is NOT enough.  An expanded CC must have a major 600+ (preferably 800+ since Cleveland's so far behind in the downtown hotel room chase) or we're really wasting our time.  We've been sold, forever, on the chicken-egg idea -- no major hotel, no major CC, and vice-versa.

 

Deep-6 the IX!  Rebuild on either site must be substantial enough to put a wrecking ball to that downtown-sapping disaster known as the IX-Center once and for all.

 

Soil issues.  While this latest article discusses river/bulkheads as a hurdle for TC, I remember seeing weak/soft soil issues could limit deeper digging at the Mall site.

Can anyone here tell me the following?

A) Uses of a convention center

B) Do you regulary attend conventions

C) Where?

Foot traffic will be all over the Lakefront.  Don't forget that by the time the CC and MM are built the Flats East Bank should be complete.  There's your entertainment for visitors with a quick hop on the Waterfront line.  If thats not enough retail, they can obviously go shopping in a giant mall.

if building at tc means the giant rotating hard rock cafe guitar sign comes down, I am all for it.  the only thing more mid-nineties pathetic than a that place would be if we had the only remaining planet hollywood.  it's not a tumor! 

 

anyhow, my point here is, I would think that the draw of east 4th, the east bank, tremont, etc should be enough as it is, where ever the cc is built(in the city that is).  cleveland is always about the neighborhoods, the diverse draws around town.  in which case, you must weigh instead the benefits of rebuilding the old cc, or building a new one on the ass of tc for what they are.       

To prevent flip-flopping, I will admit that I am torn between the two sites.  I see the mall site as "potentially" much better for clevelanders but also could be a big flop.  It all depends on the development it spurns.  I see the TC site as better for coventioners and a safer bet for long term success.

 

The ultimate goal is to attract people to attend these conventions so they dump their $ off in downtown businesses while here.

 

I don't get the whole argument about the WHD being "blocked" by the Justice Center.  It is not like that building is a giant road block that cannot be cross.  It only makes up one city block and the WHD is just on the other side.  That's what NYer's call "spitting distance".

Can anyone here tell me the following?

A) Uses of a convention center

B) Do you regulary attend conventions

C) Where?

 

Hello everyone, new to the board  - I just wanted to make a brief observation regarding this issue.  I travel to NY and Atlanta yearly to attend trade shows at the Atlanta Gift Mart, Javits Center (NY), and the Toy Building (NY).  In Atlanta everyone who can, stays at the Westin Hotel because it is attached to the Gift Mart.  There is no time to stroll the downtown during the day - you eat lunch (if you have time) in the Gift Mart.  If you are staying more than one night and you go out for dinner that means an expensive cab trip to Buckhead (think Westake) because there is only a handful of downtown restaurants that stay open late.  The area around the Gift Mart is totally desolate at night.

 

Javits Center in NY is the same situation workwise.  While at the show you are there to work not sightsee.  After a 6 hour day walking the show all you want to do is get on the bus back to your hotel (bus because there are no hotels within walking distance) and take a shower.  Of course dinner options in NY are endless. 

 

The best thing about Atlanta is you can take the train in from the airport to a station close to the Gift Mart complex.  The fact that you can leave your plane, get on the Rapid, and come into Tower City where you can go to your hotel and the Convention Center is a huge benefit to the people who will be attending the conventions. 

I also see the underground connection to Gund Arena as a huge plus for the TC site.

jsz65, welcome to UO! Thanks for the insight.

Welcome to the forum ;-)

 

Thanks for the input - we've had a lot of people express their opinions based on an "urban planner" standpoint, and there's nothing wrong with that. But the fact is, the success of the CC in its own right rests on its appeal to the convention/trade show set - the people actually utilizing it on a regular basis. The "urban planner" side of me wants to see the existing site used (mainly so the existing building doesn't go to waste); however, my experience with tradeshows thinks Tower City would be more appealing/functional than the existing site.

Welcome to the forum jsz65.

 

I have two comments on your remarks about convention goers not having time to sightsee, shop, dine, etc.

A) This would imply that successful conventions cities are actually based on their location and the quality of convention facilities, airport and transportation, which would make Cleveland a great city for conventions if we had new space.

B) There still has to be some element of entertainment and tourism appeal for a certain segment of the convention and trade show industry, because why else would Orlando and Las Vegas be such hotspots for events?

 

RE: CONVENTION CENTER & RAPID CONNECTION;

Proponents of the Tower City site talk about the advantage of a Rapid connection like the Mall site wouldn't offer a connection. That is false.

1. The Mall site is directly across Public Square from Tower City. Convention-goers can still easily use the Tower City station to access the Convention Center on the Mall from the south side.

2. The Mall site would incorporate the E.9th Rapid station as its own. Convention Goers would have a direct link to the center's main entrance on the North Side.

Frankly, I think today's news about Forest City's offer to knock out some of its theater space to provide a direct link between the Riverfront Convention Center and the Higbee Bldg Medical Mart must be some kind of response to a complaint from MMPI. Maybe this reveals MMPI always had issues with the Tower City site and would prefer the Mall site.

I think alot of the thoughts put into site location is what is best for the convention goer versus what is best for the city.  We need to meet halfway somewhere.  We can not isolate the convention goer and we need to make access to the convention as simple as possible which makes Tower City in  my mind the best answer.  Plane to Train and you're there.  The convention antendee's will remember how easy it was to get to, find lodging and meals.  When I go to them, I go to the convention during the day, get take out at night and go to the hotel room and talk to my wife and kids on the phone.  If I went to Tower City for a Convention, it would be nice to stroll by some stores on the way up to the hotel.  I know it sounds lame, but it's my priorities I guess, and I don't think it's out of the norm.

Frankly, I think today's news about Forest City's offer to knock out some of its theater space to provide a direct link between the Riverfront Convention Center and the Higbee Bldg Medical Mart must be some kind of response to a complaint from MMPI. Maybe this reveals MMPI always had issues with the Tower City site and would prefer the Mall site.

 

That's a good point.  And it also tells me that the county has chosen this location, and let Forest City know exactly what they need, and to come up with a plan to meet those needs.

Frankly, I think today's news about Forest City's offer to knock out some of its theater space to provide a direct link between the Riverfront Convention Center and the Higbee Bldg Medical Mart must be some kind of response to a complaint from MMPI. Maybe this reveals MMPI always had issues with the Tower City site and would prefer the Mall site.

 

The TC cinemas news is not really news. It has been known by all sides for a few years now that FCE would drop the cinema. I'm actually surprised that they are saying that they would keep any portion of the cinemas.

If the Mall site is selected, would people be willing to travel 2 blocks east or west for lunch/dinner.  I don't know especially during inclement weather.  But if Pesht is built that provides retail and restaurant options to the west.  To the east, this site might provide an opportunity to inject some engergy into the Galleria mall.

I guess I am atypical, but when I go to a convention I am there while I have to be, and as soon as I can get out I am out exploring the city till I want to collapse, when I return to my hotel.  So I may be atypical there, but I also know for a fact that when we do have conventions, we get alot of people out and about Downtown looking for something to eat at least, and often other entertainment.  I also think that if we appeal to people's laziness and fear of the outside by catering to that instinct with a massive, inward looking one-stop convention center/hotel/mall/entertainment complex they will indeed be lazy and they won't leave and that spin off activity won't be much of a benefit to anyone but FCE.

i agree.  anytime i am on the road, the actual convention center and immediately surrounding area is the LAST place i want to spend my down time.  boston and chicago, which i travel to fairly often, i make sure to explore the city, even in poor weather.  My last trip to Chicago in December, despite freezing temps, I walked up and down the length of michigan ave all the way to the viagra triangle and back to mccormick...this was a haul!  Not saying Cleveland has the same downtown setting or attractions, but i could see people making the trek from Tower City over to GLSC or Rock Hall and back...it's not THAT far

 

 

^but you guys are urban nerds like the rest of us. I don't see the average conventioneer going out and checking out each city block of downtown.

I am really enjoying this discussion. It is not too often that we on the board are truly split on an urban planning issue. It is a good planning exercise to go through these different arguments.

^but you guys are urban nerds like the rest of us. I don't see the average conventioneer going out and checking out each city block of downtown.

 

I don't think you're giving the average conventioner much credit.

I am really enjoying this discussion. It is not too often that we on the board are truly split on an urban planning issue. It is a good planning exercise to go through these different arguments.

 

You're wrong, we're right.  How's that?!  :evil:

Though i still stand that this decision is pretty much already made, I could argue plusses and minuses at each site.  i just find it funny that the mall haters act like it's in siberia... I mean really, these sites are separated by 4 city blocks. FOUR BLOCKS.  both are serviced by rail without ever having to step outside.  I'm tired of hearing how the mall is soooooo far away from everything. Mall haters please come up with better arguments.

^but you guys are urban nerds like the rest of us. I don't see the average conventioneer going out and checking out each city block of downtown.

 

No, but I know for a fact, from my experience living and working downtown, that conventioneers will go out and check it out a little, find something to eat, find entertainment, and spend money (and lots of it, many are entertaining clients with their expense accounts).  It's my opinion that if you give them all these options in one tidy package, they will take it and leave the rest of Downtown out in the cold, so to speak.

 

And yeah, this is a great discussion even though some of us, myself included, get a little heated about it.  I hope that the committee trying to determine the location for the CC/MM goes through this robust a discussion as well.

Frankly, I think today's news about Forest City's offer to knock out some of its theater space to provide a direct link between the Riverfront Convention Center and the Higbee Bldg Medical Mart must be some kind of response to a complaint from MMPI. Maybe this reveals MMPI always had issues with the Tower City site and would prefer the Mall site.

 

The TC cinemas news is not really news. It has been known by all sides for a few years now that FCE would drop the cinema. I'm actually surprised that they are saying that they would keep any portion of the cinemas.

Maybe they're moving to the new cinemas in Flats E. Bank.  :wink:

My young perspective on the situation:

 

Thumbs up to the Mall site

 

Reasons:

- Will reenergize to a certain extent a part of town that feels barren waaaay too many day of the year.

- Would create another distinct destination downtown.

- Finally "connects" two parts of downtown, E.9th area and W. 6th area.

- Walking distance to EVERYTHING needed.  Hotels, Tower City, Lakefront, Tower City and Public Transport, Euclid Corridor to the Clinic.  A pro to both sites, but keeps people on the streets like stated before, and highlights Tower City even more as a separate destination for visitors.

- The TC site would most likely stunt future riverfront development, assuming new construction will not be done "right."

- TC benefits either way with the increased traffic (obviously to a lesser degree)

- More use out of Public Square

- More Scenic with the Lakefront/ Mall (subjective I know)

- Could renovate/link up with the old convention center

 

 

Even after all this, the distant possibily of Med mart at Tower City and the new Convention Center (still managed by the MMPI) on/in the Mall could be the best of both worlds.   

 

My only big concern about the Mall site is the effects bad weather would have on Med Mart and conventions attendence--Tower City would be way more immune to the elements obviously.  But it's already been decided like many are predicting....ah well...

how would it have an affect on attendance, if you, rather your employer has paid for you to attend a conference/convention, you're going.  If you don't most likely you will not receive a refund.  So that is a mute point.

 

Wether is a moot point, so please do not use that as an excuse.

 

Better yet, lets flip the script.  If the weather is so bad outside people will look for restaurants on the city streets to venture into to get out of the "bad" weather.  Therefore benefiting multiple restaurants, shops and retail establishments.  If the CC is at TC, then ONCE AGAIN, the only establishments to benefit are those located IN TC.

Respectfully, it's "moot" point, not "mute."  In times of bad weather, couldn't one simply take the WFL to and from TC to the Mall site?  People would have others believe that humans do not know how to function in cities where it rains or snows, and that we should simply live out our days in enclosed malls.

 

Another point: should the CC go to the Mall site, what TC should do is to upgrade its existing options so that people want and desire to go over there after the convention is done. I just don't see how we need to hand them everything (and get back only air rights in return).

 

I'm fine with the Merchandise Mart going to the Higbee building.  It's a shame that the District of Design can't be incorporated into all of this.

Respectfully, it's "moot" point, not "mute." 

 

I know, I know, I know...I get all heated, forget to proof read and type fast.  Sincerest apologies, Mom. :-o

Cuyahoga will pay Chicago firm at least $103 million to run Medical Mart, convention center

 

Posted by Sarah Hollander March 19, 2008 18:04PM

Categories: Breaking News, Impact, Medical Mart, News Impact

 

For the first time in Cleveland's history, a private company will run the city's convention center.

 

more at: http://www.cleveland.com/medicalmart/

I attend an annual medical convention that draws over 6000 attendees each spring.  I have attended this conference twice in Philly, once in San Fran, once in New Orleans, and once in San Diego.  This year's conference is in DC.  Usually box lunches are provided in the exhibit hall daily, and there are numerous breakfast or dinner programs sponsored by pharmaceutical companies at various restaurants or hotels within a few blocks of the convention center.

 

In Philly, although the convention center is directly connected to the Reading Terminal Market and the flagship Marriott Hotel, my colleagues and I trekked through Chinatown a couple days, also made it to Jim's for a cheesesteak, and went to Little Italy, in addition to taking an afternoon to see Independence Hall, the Liberty Bell, and all that.

 

In San Fran, we stayed three blocks from the Moscone Center, walked to the ballpark to see a Giants game, walked to Union Square and Chinatown, and rode the cable car to Fisherman's Wharf.

 

In San Diego, we walked to Seaport Village, the Gaslamp Quarter, and Horton Plaza, and rode the Trolley to Old Town for dinner.

 

In New Orleans, the convention center is directly attached to a riverfront tourist trap of shops that I set foot in only once.  We stayed in a hotel on Canal Street and went to the French Quarter most evenings, and rode the St Charles Streetcar to the Garden District one evening.

 

My point in all this is that, no matter which site is chosen, there will be conventioners that explore the city, and I'm sure there will be some who never venture beyond their hotel and the convention center no matter what the city offers them.  I could see attending a conference in Cleveland and riding the rapid to Ohio City or Little Italy, walking to the Warehouse District or East 4th, taking a cab to Asiatown or Tremont.  None of this hinges on where the convention center is ultimately located.  Now, I'm sure in the midst of a snowy January convention, I would limit my options somewhat, but it's not like people won't be walking or riding a shuttle to and from their hotels throughout downtown for a major convention/expo.

 

I think my two biggest issues are 1) the aesthetics of the building on the riverfront site. How are you going to design a building on that spot that doesn't look like a total behemoth?? I think it's a huge mistake, no pun intended. Then, if this site is chosen, 2) what happens to the old Mall site?? Have the commissioners forgotten about this?? Then all of a sudden, Cleveland is left with a hulking empty space on the lakefront, with taxpayers (who aren't even going to have a SAY on the site location .. excuse me?! the same taxpayers who didn't have a say on the tax rate increase??) footing the bill and commissioners laughing all the way because no one is saying anything to stop them!

 

I really don't like the process I've seen so far. I'm all for this project 110%, but if it's not done wisely and openly, any mistakes will leave huge bitter tastes in their mouths. That is, for the Clevelanders who care enough about where their taxes are going to give a fuck.

OK.  Taxpayers agreed to law on the books, correct??  Please stop saying tax payers "didn't have a voice". 

This public-private arrangement is the way to go, esp in a struggling region/city financially...

 

FCE's cavalier attitude toward the TC Cinema sucks and is stupid.  It may be only 2 weeks, but look at the crowds (and prestige) the Cleveland Film Festival brings to TC every year.  Yet, FCE is ready and willing to sacrifice at least some of it for, in large part  ... parking access!?  Sacrificing people-generating institutions for the almighty auto; such an irritating Cleveland tradition.

 

Man it would suck to lose revenue from the Grand Prix and IFF during the same time period.  While the IFF is still fresh in our minds:

 

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

http://www.cleveland.com/entertainment/index.ssf/2008/03/medical_mart_plan_could_force.html

 

Medical Mart plan could force new site for Cleveland International Film Festival

by Clint O'Connor / Plain Dealer Reporter

Wednesday March 19, 2008, 5:37 PM

 

Those questions arose Wednesday in the wake of plans announced for a possible Medical Mart-Convention Center at Tower City in downtown Cleveland. One proposal floated by Forest City Enterprises involves carving up parts of Tower City Cinemas as a way of connecting a Medical Mart in the former Higbee Building with a new convention center on the Cuyahoga River.

 

"It's pure speculation at this point," said Jonathan Forman, president of Cleveland Cinemas, which has run the theaters since 1998. "No one's saying, 'We're going to close the theaters.' Even if Tower City is the eventual home of the Medical Mart, it would be several years before anything happens there."...

Even with a potental Wolstein-FEB theatre, I'd hate to lose the TC Cinemas.  The IFF movies have been great and as bad as the weather's been, its great to hop a Rapid and only have to worry about the elements when you return after an afternoon/evening of film watching.  FCE should be doing everything to keep the TC Cinemas, even if they had to relocate them w/in the complex, rather than being so callously (seemingly) eager to throw them away... It's rather easy to see why Ratner love is in such short supply.

 

*  *  *

 

IIRC, the Shaker Square Cinemas is the only other commercial movie house inside Cleveland's borders.

Why, oh why, do we use weather as an excuse??!!  Lets give that "excuse" a rest people! 

 

One minute your screaming for more vibrant street scape and the next your saying the end-all, be-all, place for everything is underground/undercover at TC.  You can't have it both ways.

 

 

IIRC, the Shaker Square Cinemas is the only other commercial movie house inside Cleveland's borders.

 

Detroit-Shoreway's Capital Theater should be open in about a year or so.

^No you've got it backwards, WE CAN have it both ways.

 

Let's not mix apples and oranges.  I was only talking about the film festival; a single event I travel to as a local.  And as a local who loves Cleveland, prefers transit to downtown, knows downtown backward and forward and who likes walking, I'd use the Rapid + walk or bus (ECP) if the CC was out at CSU.  But neither me, nor someone like me, is not at issue here. We're talking about conventioneers who mainly don't know Cleveland, won't want to walk around (distances at least), aren’t here to sightsee and don't want to have to deal with the cold.  Getting back and forth to the airport is one thing.  Moving about along Euclid's + E.4th  restaurant & retail area, during convention down-time or during evenings, is entirely different.  We can, and should, have an outdoor and indoor built up environment -- and yes, lower Euclid should continue developing retail-wise as should Tower City and yes, Tower City is better suited than the Mall to take advantage of both, as well as being more accessible to Gateway and WHD, (esp when Pesht gets going) as well as TC's indoor environment as well.  The Mall site is on all these counts.  And you don't even mention the TC connection, indoor or outdoor, to the Q, a very important potential CC venue... Why be so narrow focused, MTS, that you won't admit there's any merit to TC?  I've at least tried to see some possibilities in the Mall.

 

And it positively foolish to simply ignore one Cleveland's greatest assets -- the Airport Rapid -- simply because of a pro-Mall agenda. I stand by that.

 

 

 

Detroit-Shoreway's Capital Theater should be open in about a year or so.

 

That's excellent.  I look forward to patronizing it, as I have Cleveland Public Theatre.

I just don't think the Riverfront site holds a huge "Rapid" advantage over the Mall site.  The Mall site is clearly linked to the Rapid system. (Go back and look at the site plans)

 

The Convention Center at the Mall Site would incorporate the Northcoast Harbor Station as its own. (Not to mention the Amtrak station which would be phenomenal if the Ohio Hub is a success in the near future). The Mall Site close enough Public Square enjoying both the Rapid links at Tower City and the Silver Line. This would be especially true if the West Block is developed as the Medical Mart and Hotel, because the complex is given an Ontario Ave. entrance next to Key Tower.

 

To think that convention/event organizers couldn't communicate directions to attendees how to make a Rapid transfer or cross a street is pretty ridiculous.

 

 

^Thank you.  I am getting very tired of hearing what an "advantage" the TC site has because of transportation.  Honestly if you can not figure out how to make 1 connection at a rail terminal, you probably aren't intelligent enough to have the type of job that would require someone sending you to a convention.

 

That being said... they're still going to cram this thing behind tower city.

From the PD:

 

http://blog.cleveland.com/metro/2008/03/cuyahoga_commissioners_approve.html

 

Cuyahoga commissioners approve deal on Medical Mart

Posted by JKroll

March 20, 2008 12:55PM

 

The Chicago-based company that plans to run Cleveland's new convention center and Medical Mart will also build the complex and own it for at least the first 20 years.

 

Cuyahoga County Commissioner unanimously approved an agreement Thursday with Merchandise Mart Properties, Inc....