^Understandibly frustrated.  As mayor, he should be addressing the city about our current problems - and I mean ALL of them - and discuss what's going on, what improvements he plans, and so on.  We need visible resassurance that things are going to get better, and we need visible leadership.  I can't tell you how bleak it's been lately downtown and we Clevelanders truly deserve a boost of confidence with Mayor Jackson telling us in a televised conference, even if impromtu, about a lot of the city's problems and his response to each one.

 

We need some reason to be inspired and optimistic, something to change our perception of what's been going on.  I mean, we need something from the man, some reason to believe he's working furiously behind closed doors to help better our present and future lives here; otherwise, he just appears as a nice guy in way over his head.

 

Are you talking about the weather?  :roll:

 

Btw, there is a Frank Jackson thread that may be more suited to *discussion* about his leadership.

http://www.urbanohio.com/forum2/index.php/topic,6137.0.html

Bleak as in depressing.  I don't know, there's just a negative vibe lately with the national and economic local problems. 

 

 

http://www.hdmagazine.co.uk/story.asp?sectioncode=16&storyCode=2048754

 

The above article is from an on line hospital development magazine and it speaks rather glowingly about the prospects of the New York World Product Center. The trouble is, I searched the archives of the same site and not a single match for Cleveland Medical Mart. IMHO people trying to get this done in Cleveland need to take this more seriously.

Its a media placement article.  Did you notice there was no mention of financing, funds, exhibitors, etc.

 

please play close attention to this:

John Strong, former president and chief executive of purchasing group Consorta, is now president of the marketing arm of the venture.

 

It's not uncommon to see this type of media/PR.

Is it because we play a different game in the midwest/Cleveland that we don't have media placement articles?

 

Media placement articles (MPA) can be very effective.

 

I see it firsthand with all the MPAs that are everywhere in/about South Florida.  This is the reason why most of America mistakenly thinks that it is always sunshinny here and that because of no income tax the cost of living is lower than in other places.

 

**As an aside (and a testament to the power of the media): Super Bowl XLI was held in South Florida in 2007 on one of the coldest, soggiest most miserable days South Florida had seen in a while.  Now, if you were watching on TV, you had no idea the weather was that lousy, because all they showed was the game.  They rarely if ever showed the poor miserable fans on the seats, no doubt because it would have ruined the image of the host city.**

 

When I first moved here, I thought, how dumb can people be to believe all these MPAs.  However, as the years have come and gone and I see more and more people influenced by them I have started to think why Cleveland does not do more of them.  I don't mean that you have to blast Clevelanders with them, but it certainly goes a long way to blast others with them.

 

For example, when you get on an AA airplane their magazine usually has a bunch of good MPAs about their hub cities (Dallas, Miami, Chicago, etc), but when you get on a Continental airplane you see very little MPAs about Cleveland...why?

 

Anyway, MPAs are not going to suddenly decide whether a medical mart goes into New York or Cleveland let alone generate financing where there isn't.  However, they do go a long way towards building momentum and trying to get people to buy into whatever image it is that you want people to see about yourself.

For example, when you get on an AA airplane their magazine usually has a bunch of good MPAs about their hub cities (Dallas, Miami, Chicago, etc), but when you get on a Continental airplane you see very little MPAs about Cleveland...why?

^Good ideas, although I disagree with you on this point.  There's a pretty good stream of positive Cleveland articles in the Continental magazine.  There is a section devoted to what is going on in the hub cities.

 

For example, when you get on an AA airplane their magazine usually has a bunch of good MPAs about their hub cities (Dallas, Miami, Chicago, etc), but when you get on a Continental airplane you see very little MPAs about Cleveland...why?

^Good ideas, although I disagree with you on this point.  There's a pretty good stream of positive Cleveland articles in the Continental magazine.  There is a section devoted to what is going on in the hub cities.

 

 

Yeah,  I agree with FrqnyFlyr.  Cleveland Clinic, University Circle, Playhouse Square, LeBron & the Cavs are constantly mentioned in the magazine along with many of our restaurants and various neighborhoods throughout the region.

 

Media Placement/buys and Advertising Campaigns are a complicated dance.  Not sure what that has to do with this thread though  :?

 

 

NYC will only be a threat if or when they got the $. Don't hold your breath.

 

you sound like nance! at the same time do not brush it aside so easily, they have been working on this quite awhile now too. the ny developers have a mega convention center across the street, they have a site and they have plans. no doubt they are working on financing. the cleve has only basic financing. a shame that mayor jane had the cc site decided long ago, the ridiculous political football over site selection since then is killing this project just as much as any lack of financing is delaying the ny plan. so it seems like a wash to me. first one done will be the winner. let it be the cle!

 

 

NYC will only be a threat if or when they got the $. Don't hold your breath.

 

you sound like nance! at the same time do not brush it aside so easily, they have been working on this quite awhile now too. the ny developers have a mega convention center across the street, they have a site and they have plans. no doubt they are working on financing. the cleve has only basic financing. a shame that mayor jane had the cc site decided long ago, the ridiculous political football over site selection since then is killing this project just as much as any lack of financing is delaying the ny plan. so it seems like a wash to me. first one done will be the winner. let it be the cle!

 

 

 

I agree with most.

 

I don't agree with "first one done will be the winner".  The first one done will have first crack at lining up conventions and a better projection of being a profit center.  However, the power of MMPI is nothing to sneeze at.

the cleve has only basic financing.

 

If by basic you mean the money to secure 1 of 2 possible sites, construction money, operating funds and a experienced management team to oversee it, you are right. RIGHT NOW I am confident that MMPI is moving in the right direction in a timely manner. Cleveland is on the way to becoming the" best location in the nation" again. I reiterate, this is a NYC developers puff piece. FCE.A 5.69/share

in other words, same thing they had 18 months ago! awwrgh.

the nytimes finally checked in on this today & fleshed it out a bit more. and clevelanders do take note the benedict arnold columbus, ohio company interested in the ny tower (cardinal health)  :whip: :

 

 

Defying Slump, Developers Plan 60-Story Hospital Industry Center on West Side

 

   

By ANEMONA HARTOCOLLIS

Published: November 19, 2008

 

A major hospital trade association, one of New York City’s most aggressive developers and a financier with a personal interest in health care are teaming up in hopes of building a 60-story glass-and-steel tower on the West Side of Manhattan that would function as an international showcase and permanent conference center for the hospital industry.

 

From left, Israel Green; Lee H. Perlman, for the Greater New York Hospital Association; and Gary Barnett, for Extell, a developer.

 

The partners — the Greater New York Hospital Association, Extell and Israel Green, a deep-pocketed investor little known outside the real estate industry — say the building would open in late 2013 and would serve as an anchor building for the Hudson Yards, more than 50 blocks of riverfront stretching from West 28th Street to West 43rd Street that make up one of the last parcels of underused land in Manhattan. The Bloomberg administration originally wanted to put a $2 billion football stadium for the Jets on the site, but that notion was blocked by the State Legislature.

 

Real estate projects all over New York City have been stalled or stopped in their tracks because of the shrinking credit market. But the backers of the World Product Centre, as the tower would be called, say that the prospects for their project — estimated to cost $500 million to $1 billion to build — are uniquely auspicious because the health care industry has proven in the past to be countercyclical and recession-proof, since people always get sick.

 

In interviews on Wednesday, the developers or their representatives said they imagined the building as a permanent exhibition center for hundreds of vendors to the medical industry, from hospital food and furniture suppliers to pharmaceutical companies and makers of X-ray machines and surgical devices. They have assembled a team of salespeople to begin marketing the 10-year leases that would help secure the financing for the building, focusing their attention on some of the country’s largest health care companies, like Cardinal Health Care, a Fortune 20 company with $90 billion in annual revenue.

 

Situated on the east side of 11th Avenue between 33rd and 34th Streets, where the now-demolished Copacabana nightclub once stood, cater-corner from the Jacob K. Javits Convention Center, the tower would also house the headquarters of the hospital association, now located on West 57th Street.

 

“From an economic development aspect, it’s more important than ever to do a building like this, because New York City’s future can’t be continued reliance on Wall Street,” said Marc V. Shaw, executive vice president for strategic planning at Extell, the development company, and a former budget director in the Giuliani administration and former chief executive of the Metropolitan Transportation Authority.

 

The Bloomberg administration has embraced the project as part of its efforts to wean New York City’s economic base away from the financial industry, which has been its mainstay, and as a way to bolster the tourism industry by filling hotel rooms with medical executives during the off-season.

 

Robert C. Lieber, deputy mayor for economic development, said in an e-mail message on Wednesday, “New York City has all the makings of a major hub of commercial bioscience activity — more than 70 hospitals, top medical research institutions, the most talented work force in the nation — and we see the industry as a prime opportunity to grow and diversify the economy.”

 

Lee H. Perlman, president of the for-profit venture arm of the Greater New York Hospital Association, said the centralized location would address Congressional concerns that the financial relationship between hospitals and doctors and their suppliers, including drug and medical device companies, has become too cozy and insulated from public scrutiny.

 

But real estate executives and others said it would be an uphill fight to convince potential financial backers of the project’s potential to succeed in bleak economic times. They noted that the International Toy Center, a similar concept, failed and is now being converted into offices and residences.

 

One executive who spoke on the condition of anonymity for fear of alienating Extell said he found it hard to believe that enough companies would commit to 10-year leases in the current market to make the project financially viable. “Under normal conditions, Israel Green and Extell could — and did — raise a lot of money,” the executive said. “They are as smart as they come.”

 

But he said that over the next 12 months, space would become cheaper to lease, and that it might make more sense to lease than to build. “There is nothing getting done or built that’s over $100 million these days, because you simply cannot get the lenders together to fund it,” the executive said. “In fact very little is being done above $75 million. When you’re looking into a crystal ball, a year to a year and a half looks to us like a train wreck just beginning to hit.”

 

Anna Levin, chairwoman of the Clinton-Hell’s Kitchen Land Use Committee for Community Board 4, said the infrastructure for Hudson Yards could not yet support a 60-story building, and that infrastructure construction — including the extension of the No. 7 subway — was likely to fall behind schedule because of the sagging economy.

 

“It may not be a stupid idea, but at this point I think it’s kind of an isolated idea, wrapped up in a whole bunch of uncertainties,” Ms. Levin said of the plan for the World Product Centre. “It’s all still a pretty picture, but with no reality behind it yet, and this smells to me like the city is trying to create some reality.”

 

The World Product Centre was jointly conceived by Mr. Perlman and Mr. Green. Mr. Green and a partner, Joseph Neumann, owned the Salmon Tower, a 59-story office building at 500 Fifth Avenue, at 42nd Street, in the 1980s. Mr. Green said he became interested in health care after his wife was found to have thyroid cancer 10 years ago, and that he had originally hoped to build the World Product Centre near the World Trade Center — hence the word “Centre” in its name — a plan that was dashed by the 2001 terrorist attack.

 

The developers said that the building would have 1 million square feet of space and 1,800 showrooms, but that a typical company would occupy two or three showrooms. Mr. Perlman said that the backers needed 10-year commitments from about 600 companies to make the financing work, and that they would need to sign up about 200 to start construction.

 

Mr. Perlman said that several companies had expressed interest, though none had yet signed a lease. “We have 18 months to do it, and that’s our goal,” he said.

 

Mark Rosenbaum, an executive at Cardinal Health, based in Ohio, said the company, with 2,500 sales representatives, has showrooms in Columbus and San Diego, and often shows clients its products in use at places like the Cleveland Clinic or the Mayo Clinic. “I think it makes sense,” Mr. Rosenbaum said of the World Product Centre. “We are certainly interested in it, and we are very seriously considering what it might mean to us.”

 

Mr. Shaw said the developers were not asking for government financing at this point, though they might look for tax breaks down the road. He said the building would finance itself through leases that would “replace the conventional bond that’s hard to get right now.”

 

Besides the showplaces and trade association headquarters, the tower would include a 500-seat auditorium, work spaces for visiting businesspeople, and a training and education center for the hospital industry.

 

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/11/20/nyregion/20product.html?pagewanted=1&_r=1&adxnnl=1&partner=rss&emc=rss&adxnnlx=1227222765-gPXoJpG1CN4bW0Znyh1q0A

Mr. Perlman said that the backers needed 10-year commitments from about 600 companies to make the financing work, and that they would need to sign up about 200 to start construction.

 

I think that about says it all. Who is going to make that kind of commitment, in one of the most expensive cities in the world to do business, in this economy?

 

It is also interesting to note they feel they can construct 3x the space with the same money.  I have more questions than answers.

 

I don't believe financing will be as difficult as it rationally should. As more and more TARP money gets into the grubby little hands of these bank execs, they will get more and more pressure to lend. They will look to the soundest investments so they can go back to congress and say "see, we're lending money". These folks are not the first to suggest the health care industry is recession proof. The health care industry is about the soundest investment you can make in this climate. Recession proof means the industry is still growing, and still looking for new ways to peddle their wares. I understand that this is more accurately an investment in real estate but the strength of the tenants will be a factor in these odd times; and these tenants will start to sign up. These guys are marketing, they have a fully designed building with prospectus and specs, and they're talkin' to folks in our own back yard. Does anyone have any idea how much permanant show space MMPI has planned for here? I can only tell you the show space of WPC; it's 727,900 sq ft.

^yeah, but to say the "healthcare industry" is recession-proof does not mean that an enormous NYC showroom is a can't-miss: it is still a speculative real estate investment in a city with major fiscal issues likely to get worse (say, for instance, if Citi goes under), and that's not the space where lenders are likely to be extending their token credit.

^ I agree and I don't want to sound like I think WPC is a done deal, but it should not be dismissed as folly either. If their project does happen it would certainly incumber the success of ours, perhaps even scale it down. We, on the other hand, could put the final nail in that projects coffin if we moved on this quicker. Pick the Mall site and let's go allready.

PLJ or Fred Nance (can't remember which) was on Lannigan and Malone earlier in the week.  He said look for a site selection within weeks.  Not months, weeks, he emphasized this.  Lannigan said they would call him in a couple of weeks if nothing is decided.  Hope it wasn't just lawyer speak.

^ and you didn't report this till today. You're Carl Monday aren't ya. :-D

 

Good news. Somebody pray for the Mall site; I can't I'm an atheist. 

Question.  What happens after the site selection is made?

fast and furious architectural work based off existing schemes developed for either area.  Purchasing of land / property at either location. Lining up of tennants (which I believe has been going on already via MMPI)... and then... construction.

booyah

Sounds so easy.

From cleveland.com

 

Cuyahoga commissioners hire consultant to hurry medical mart deal along

 

Posted by Joe Guillen November 21, 2008 15:25PM

Categories: Medical, Medical Mart, Real Time News

 

CLEVELAND -- Under mounting pressure to finalize the medical mart deal, Cuyahoga County has hired another consultant to help reach an agreement to build the $400 million downtown complex, which also will include a new convention center.

 

County Administrator James McCafferty said the county hopes to announce by Jan. 15 a site and a binding deal with a private Chicago firm to build the development many are banking on to revitalize the region's economy.

 

More at cleveland.com http://blog.cleveland.com/metro/2008/11/cuyahoga_commissioners_hire_co.html

My expectations for a well designed convention center are diminishing the further along we get into this.

Why? Orlando is a hotbed of amazing architectural design.

Here's their project list - note they were heavily involved in the (critically acclaimed by some) Pittsburgh convention center:

 

http://www.cwisdom.com/files/projectsdomestic.html

 

They have Cleveland's listed as consulting for just the feasability and master-planning, not the concept plan.

no aesthetic worries here if they would just hurry up and choose the mall site. if they are doubly wise and use the under-the-mall plan we have seen....well, as teddy roosevelt would say, "bully!" it's not only beautiful, but even more importantly in my mind it is very forward looking (improved rail transit, opening up the lakefront, etc.). now if this new firm wants to redo everything & muck that up....oh no, i can't go there.

"Cleveland attorney Fred Nance, under contract to lead medical mart negotiations for the county, said he is uncomfortable with setting a deadline to announce progress because it heightens expectations."

 

Sounds like something our dear President would say

Nothing like competition from NYC to finally make Cleveland hurry up and do something....

yeah, no rush fred. take your time. maybe think it over at dinner at sans souci or muse? and dont you worry about that dinner check fred, its been taken care of.  :shoot:

I wonder why Mr. Guillen (author of the C.com article ) does not define where he believes this "mounting pressure" is coming from. Is it indeed from the competition in NY, and is the county actually feeling said pressure? They should.

I wonder why Mr. Guillen (author of the C.com article ) does not define where he believes this "mounting pressure" is coming from. Is it indeed from the competition in NY, and is the county actually feeling said pressure? They should.

 

I'd say it's from several sources, including the ones you mentioned. I'd also add the taxpaying constituents of Cuyahoga County.

This isn't that complicated.

 

Source of delay:

Merchandise Mart Properties Inc. wants to build their own building and therefore isn't interested in the Tower City site.

But the campaigns of each of the Cuyahoga County Commissioners and the Greater Cleveland Partnership have received significant dollars from Forest City Enterprises and therefore want to push the Tower City Center site which FCE owns.

 

Problem:

MMPI will pull out if they can't build their own building. Thus, they favor the current convention center site.

 

Solution:

Elected officials hire consultants to cover their behinds in potentially controversial decisions. So, they're hiring one.

 

Likely outcome:

Even though the GCP already recommended the Tower City site (big shock! GCP is heavily influenced by FCE), the consultant will recommend the existing convention center site. If the consultant doesn't, say goodbye to the Medical Mart and the expanded convention center.

^Poetic and I want to agree except;  " Solution:

Elected officials hire consultants to cover their behinds in potentially controversial decisions. So, they're hiring one."

 

They've allready put negotiation power into the hands of MMPI to cover their political behinds. This could unfortunately leave the deal making behind closed doors. I see Conventional Wisdom as nothing more than window dressing. They or someone like them should have been brought on board long ago. Likely outcome: MMPI gets what they want either way, or this is done.

 

I hope the agreement or disagreement is with the commissioners. The above description is simply a boiled-down version of what is going on.

I hope the agreement or disagreement is with the commissioners. The above description is simply a boiled-down version of what is going on.

 

agreeing with your boiled down version, just adding an observation on political cover.

Comprendo.

This isn't that complicated.

 

Source of delay:

Merchandise Mart Properties Inc. wants to build their own building and therefore isn't interested in the Tower City site.

But the campaigns of each of the Cuyahoga County Commissioners and the Greater Cleveland Partnership have received significant dollars from Forest City Enterprises and therefore want to push the Tower City Center site which FCE owns.

 

Problem:

MMPI will pull out if they can't build their own building. Thus, they favor the current convention center site.

 

Solution:

Elected officials hire consultants to cover their behinds in potentially controversial decisions. So, they're hiring one.

 

Likely outcome:

Even though the GCP already recommended the Tower City site (big shock! GCP is heavily influenced by FCE), the consultant will recommend the existing convention center site. If the consultant doesn't, say goodbye to the Medical Mart and the expanded convention center.

 

cool. 91 pages of forum threads I don't have to review to get caught up on this.

I'm happy to provide a public service! :)

The media push and marketing continue for New York's WPC > http://www.globest.com/news/1294_1294/newyork/175391-1.html

 

...tick tock, tick tock...

Look on Old River Rd.

ever seen an ohio healthcare company so ready to jump state and stab cleveland in the back as cardinal health?

 

remember that when you choose your healthcare provider at work.

 

Most corporations couldn't care less about what their address is, as long as it provides more value to their shareholders. Same deal for people shopping around for healthcare providers. As long as their provider gives them more value for the money, money, money, money, money, money, money, money, money, money, money, money, money....

Never seen a puff piece before? Ever see a developer clear a piece of land on speculation without complete finance in place? Look on Old River Rd.

 

To whom do you pose the question?

I was checking the career section of the Merchandise Mart, and in the pull down list of their properties to search for jobs, it lists the "Cleveland Medical Mart".

 

http://www.merchandisemart.com/mmart/about/careers.cfm

 

 

 

http://blog.cleveland.com/metro/2008/12/cuyahoga_commissioners_shuffle.html#more

Cuyahoga commissioners shuffle funds to pay medical mart legal bill

Posted by Joe Guillen/Plain Dealer Reporter

December 12, 2008 04:52AM

 

Cuyahoga County commissioners were surprised Thursday by a six-figure legal bill for medical mart negotiations that they thought was already covered.

 

The $100,000 charge is part of an estimated $175,000 in legal fees that commissioners will pay in trying to land the combined medical mart/convention center...

what a joke...there really is nothing else to say.

Folks, the idea is to keep the thread on-topic. The "peanut gallery" comments don't help that, and more importantly give the Admins and Mods yet one more reason they have to take time out of their lives (oh, and we don't get paid to do this) because people don't think before they post. There's a reason this site has become the "go to" place for just about any and all information architecture/development/planning related - and it's not because we allow a free-for-all atmosphere. Don't wanna see the axe? Don't post stupid, off-topic sh!t. Period.

 

Happy holidays, everyone - this thread stays locked until we actually get real news about the Convention Center/Medical Mart.

County extends Medical Mart deadline

Posted by Joe Guillen./Plain Dealer Reporter

December 31, 2008 17:55PM

http://blog.cleveland.com/metro/2008/12/county_extends_medical_mart_de.html

 

One month after setting a Jan. 15 deadline for choosing a site for a proposed medical mart, Cuyahoga County commissioners have granted a one-month extension.

 

Commissioner Peter Lawson Jones said Wednesday that the county granted the extension at the request of Merchandise Mart Properties, Inc., the Chicago company analyzing potential sites...