^ I don't believe initially the county admin building is going anywhere, yet at least... looking at the site graphic in the PD it appears the 113 building, the sportsman, and the parking lot are in play.  Not the county admin building.

^ I don't believe initially the county admin building is going anywhere, yet at least... looking at the site graphic in the PD it appears the 113 building, the sportsman, and the parking lot are in play. Not the county admin building.

 

Dang it.

The Admin Bldg is outgrown(Cleve. Trust Bldg boondoggle) I am assuming :) the county will give it up and move to

I wouldn't be surprised by that at all (Is there enough space left in Higbee Bldg, with key moving in?) Just stating that the admin building is not part of the initial site.  I believe that area would be used for an attached convention hotel down the line.

Nice. I like it.

Holy crap this is a great link from the above article. I just spent like an hour on it. Go through the different pages and check out all of the old photos and articles. Read the 1903 Report on the Group Plan, very cool. This stuff is like porn to me.  :laugh:

http://groupplan.dhellison.com/buildings.php?ss=ConventionCtrPhotos

 

I forgot to thank

 

Brian Cummins

Ward 15, Cleveland City Council Rep.

 

For being the ONLY Councilman to show up at MM Meetings with the interests of City's citizens in mind. I think he would make a fine Mayor.

http://www.conventioncleveland.com/Interior-entrance2.html

 

Yeah, that wouldn't have looked horrible at all.

Quick show of hands, anyone want to see the Hanna fountains installed again, or leave Mall B as a grassy field?

 

My vote, keep it grassy, it opens itself up for more special events, such as movies in the park.

 

Im still SO HAPPY!

Fountains

Frank Jackson says his is "concerned" about the foundation at the Mall. Why is he? It is not his or the city's problem. It is MMPI's problem. They are responsible for cost overruns.

His problem is how to avoid PAYING MMPI to take it off the city's hands.(joke)

It is his duty to get the best deal for the city period.

 

Yeah, I dont get why Frank doesnt seem to want this site...  When he went to Chicago, one of his concerns was that MMPI wasnt taking the Tower City site seriously.  It may have been stated before, but what was his relationship with the Ratners?     

Frank Jackson says his is "concerned" about the foundation at the Mall. Why is he? It is not his or the city's problem. It is MMPI's problem. They are responsible for cost overruns.

His problem is how to avoid PAYING MMPI to take it off the city's hands.(joke)

It is his duty to get the best deal for the city period.

 

Yeah, I dont get why Frank doesnt seem to want this site...  When he went to Chicago, one of his concerns was that MMPI wasnt taking the Tower City site seriously.  It may have been stated before, but what was his relationship with the Ratners?     

 

Did I miss something.  GP where specificlly does Mayor Jackson say this?

 

Fountains

 

How about a compromise and build a new landmark fountain?

Merchandise Mart Properties intends to renovate Public Auditorium

Posted by Jim Nichols/Plain Dealer Reporter January 22, 2009 23:26PM

Categories: Medical Mart

 

Public Hall, part of Public Auditorium, which has been in existence for 86 years.

 

Merchandise Mart Properties Inc. intends to renovate Public Auditorium and incorporate the nearly 87-year-old landmark into the convention center.

 

The hall would become a secondary entrance to a new center and be retrofitted into a large space that can be used as overflow exhibition space or broken into smaller rooms, said Chris Warren, Cleveland's chief of regional development...

 

http://blog.cleveland.com/metro/2009/01/merchandise_mart_properties_in_1.html

I prefer keeping the Mall grassy.  I like to play frisbee there in the summer.  I've seen others use it for soccer.  It's the best and only open field for active use in Downtown.

I also would like to thank Councilman Cummins for his interest and activism on this issue.

 

As for the mall, there are fewer and better places to have lunch in Cleveland on a nice spring, pleasant summer or early fall day. Keep it grass.

I'll vote for grass if they replace the fountain in public square. We need a really nice fountain to show off that we don't have a shortage of water.  :wink:

I'll vote for grass if they replace the fountain in public square. We need a really nice fountain to show off that we don't have a shortage of water.  ;)

 

Thats a thought.  I think we could have some sort of water feature on the mall.  not in the smack dab center but a nice entry with a water feature.

 

I think it should be up to those who live downtown since it's their "front lawn" so to speak.

Mall A has a nice fountain surrounding the Peace statue. 

Mall A has a nice gountain surrounding the Peace statue.

 

True, but to me that always looks like its more about the statue, and water was added as an after thought. It doesn't really look like a fountain to me, more like a tribute to flaming male strippers and green body paint surrounded by strange carvings that are only understood by the artist and someone is trying to wash them away with a sprinkler.

I take it you don't like the statue.  I dig it.  It has a superman vibe, a sense that people can be bigger than they think.  I never picked up any stripper overtones... I guess if that's what you see, that's what you see.  Thinking like that is what got the nipples shaved off the Cleveland Venus, right?  Anyway, I believe the Peace statue's surrounding carvings represent the four macro ethnic groups of mankind.

 

This article has some good post-game wrapup and grousing by the unchosen:

 

http://blog.cleveland.com/metro/2009/01/mall_location_picked_for_medic.html

 

CLEVELAND -- Cuyahoga County commissioners abruptly announced late Thursday that Cleveland's downtown mall will be the site for a new convention center and a medical mart -- a $425 million project billed as vital to the region's economy.

 

The announcement came after hours of secretive talks about the mall and a competing spot behind Tower City, and one day after Merchandise Mart Properties Inc., the county's private sector partner, told The Plain Dealer it would reconsider a third site in the Flats...

The Plain Dealer gets it wrong again.  There is no development in NYC

"Linton said he was dismayed that Tower City was eliminated despite "very little" discussion about the project with county officials or MMPI. He was critical of the county for picking a site without a public discussion of the cost and design analysis MMPI presented to city, state and county leaders in private on Thursday."

 

Waaaaaaaa :cry:

"Linton said he was dismayed that Tower City was eliminated despite "very little" discussion about the project with county officials or MMPI. He was critical of the county for picking a site without a public discussion of the cost and design analysis MMPI presented to city, state and county leaders in private on Thursday."

 

Waaaaaaaa :'(

 

Isn't that exactly what they did for the court tower?

"Linton said he was dismayed that Tower City was eliminated despite "very little" discussion about the project with county officials or MMPI. He was critical of the county for picking a site without a public discussion of the cost and design analysis MMPI presented to city, state and county leaders in private on Thursday."

 

Waaaaaaaa :'(

 

Isn't that exactly what they did for the court tower?

 

Isn't that exactly what they did for this, through the GCP?

"Linton said he was dismayed that Tower City was eliminated despite "very little" discussion about the project with county officials or MMPI. He was critical of the county for picking a site without a public discussion of the cost and design analysis MMPI presented to city, state and county leaders in private on Thursday."

 

Waaaaaaaa :'(

 

Isn't that exactly what they did for the court tower?

 

Isn't that exactly what they did for this, through the GCP?

 

True!

I take it you don't like the statue. I dig it. It has a superman vibe, a sense that people can be bigger than they think. I never picked up any stripper overtones... I guess if that's what you see, that's what you see. Thinking like that is what got the nipples shaved off the Cleveland Venus, right? Anyway, I believe the Peace statue's surrounding carvings represent the four macro ethnic groups of mankind.

I don't have a problem with the statue, and I was joking about it looking like a stripper, but it doesn't look like a fountain to me. Its probably one of the most distinct peices of art in Cleveland, but the color is a really bizarre shade of green.

 

Hagan said, aside from the price, he also favors the site because it is on public property. He said the selection also answers a potentially problematic question: What do you do with the old convention center if a new one is built elsewhere?

Aha! Hagan got it. This is the biggest reason I liked the mall site, I wish more people understood that this is a major issue.

 

"If we were just building a convention center, we are competing with Pittsburgh, Cincinnati and Columbus. We're talking specifically about medical conventions. That's the unique difference here."

I hope we're not overestimating how big of a difference this will make. I guess we'll see in a few years.

 

The Plain Dealer gets it wrong again. There is no development in NYC

Well, they were close to getting it right. There has been something proposed for NYC. I imagine if Cleveland weren't making any progress in this process, the credit market completely turned around, there was a strong enough demand for a medical equipment showroom for lenders to think the idea profitable, and pigs could fly, they might get a medical mart in NYC. At least the PD didn't openly trash the city in this article.

 

The Plain Dealer gets it wrong again.  There is no development in NYC

Well, they were close to getting it right. There has been something proposed for NYC. I imagine if Cleveland weren't making any progress in this process, the credit market completely turned around, there was a strong enough demand for a medical equipment showroom for lenders to think the idea profitable,  and pigs could fly, they might get a medical mart in NYC. At least the PD didn't openly trash the city in this article.

 

There are only talks/discussion...not an actual proposal.  There is no place for the building, they parcels they are looking at are even available.  Its a moot point.

 

Now, Mr. FEB Wolstein .  The decision has been made to build at the Mall site.  Let it go and concentrate on your development!  This Feb. 2 meeting should be cancelled, as it would look bad on both parts to continue discussion after making a public announcement with a partner as to the location of the MM/CC.

 

To FCE, if you so disappointed, stop the BS in Brooklyn and develop a housing plan in your own damn city!  Cut your losses and use the money you're paying your lawyers to develop the Pennisula.

The Plain Dealer gets it wrong again.  There is no development in NYC

 

Granted they have as many construction cranes working away as we currently do, but it's very much in play: http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=157034

 

 

The part missing from NYC is financing:)

^True, and there are other factors playing against their proposal but until the fat lady sings...

. It has general community support. What  suggests is not within the time frame at this point and is simply not a good idea. We are looking for a first class center.

I really think they looked at the Flats a long time ago and determined that it was indeed too isolated, and there were probably not enough existing hotel rooms as compared to the Mall and TC site.

 

Perhaps something can be worked out with the mall site connecting to the waterfront line, then over to the flats east bank.

 

 

Wolstein comes late to the party and wonders why the food is cold. Tuff. The city has been more than generous with his project. It has general community support. What he suggests is not within the time frame at this point and is simply not a good idea. We are looking for a first class center. I bet he has a good idea about what to do  with the " 10's of million of dollars" in so called savings too.

 

I love that!  LOL

So recklessly thinking ahead...  what sort of spin-off potential do we see in the immediate vicinity?  And a related question: any nearby buildings in danger of being demoed for parking?  I can't think of any off the top of my head...probably because the Justice Center already lead to the demo of eastern half of the WHD decades ago.

Spin-off, who can really say? Parking-wise, none that I can think of - and I imagine that the proposed Staybridge Suites (East 6th and Rockwell) could get a shot in the arm.

For as nice as the civic buildings around the mall are, some of the other structures in that general area are pretty blah.  St Clair between E6th and E9th is no picnic.  I wouldn't mind seeing that whole stretch redone from the ground up.  Taller this time, if we could please.

So recklessly thinking ahead...  what sort of spin-off potential do we see in the immediate vicinity?  And a related question: any nearby buildings in danger of being demoed for parking?  I can't think of any off the top of my head...probably because the Justice Center already lead to the demo of eastern half of the WHD decades ago.

 

I know several hotel chains are interested in entering the Market.  Namely Starwood & Hilton.  They have no presence in Downtown Cleveland.  Marriott is already using one/two Cleveland properties for their new room roll out. 

 

Is there still going to be a 700 room hotel built in conjunction?  To me that is key.

 

I think now, we will see more street life and activity as those going into the city will stay, eat and do things in the immediate area. 

 

In past people (local and visitor) would drive to the IX center then drive home or fly into and out of hopkins in the same day.  Since there are no amenties, there were was no need for a traveler to stay.

 

I've heard rumors of the following hotels

W in the Warehouse district

Westin attached to TC

Hilton at East 9/Lakeside

Conrad on Prospect/14 Street Area *

St. Regis on Prospect/14 Street Area *

Grand or Park Hyatt on Prospect/14 Street Area *

Sofitel  Prospect/14 Street Area *

Sheraton on Lower Prospect

Marriott Marquis on Superior West.

Palomar Hotel on East 9

 

I know that PHSF is trying to "upgrade" the area so going after a top tier lux brand makes sense.

Spin-off, who can really say? Parking-wise, none that I can think of - and I imagine that the proposed Staybridge Suites (East 6th and Rockwell) could get a shot in the arm.

 

I've heard that one is dead. But I heard that a certain young local developer has some plans for that building...

that building was recently awarded tax credits though, correct?

Not sure--but the credits are transferable. It would make sense either way for the current owner to get the credits.

 

I've also think that there are some people who would like to get CMSD out of their building and convert it to a boutique hotel and condos. I have no idea if that's just an idea or something that people are actually looking into.

The more I think about the possiblities, the more I like the choice of this site. 

 

I can't wait to see the renderings.  I really hope that the plan is still to build a new Mall D over the tracks so that NCH and the lake can be incorporated with a pedestrian bridge going over the shoreway.  Most out of towners like to head in that direction anyway due to the RRHOF.   

 

This project does however really make the piss poor site selection for CBS really stand out.  Oh well, we will just have to build around it. 

 

Not sure what the hell Wolstein is talking about.  This site offers as much, if not much more, of an opportunity for a "new" Cleveland than the other two.  It gives a shot in the arm to nearly the entire CBD.

If they would do concerts there in the summer like they used to, the stadium siting wouldn't seem so bad.  Why the rock hall and stadium aren't tied together more is beyond me, considering all the major bands that played at the old one. 

If they would do concerts there in the summer like they used to, the stadium siting wouldn't seem so bad.  Why the rock hall and stadium aren't tied together more is beyond me, considering all the major bands that played at the old one. 

 

We're at a different time and age.  Back then we didn't have internet, Cable, wireless or ipods.

 

The cost - mainly insurance and security - to produce a stadium concert in the 70's/80's is significantly cheaper than it is today.

 

When I worked in the Music division the cost analysts were astounding.

 

 

Gosh, thanks insurance.  We really needed less events in our large venues.  Keep contributing to society the best way you know how. 

 

As to your other point, I think the internet has been much more harmful to cities than any other technological development.  TV did some damage, but that really only hit enternainment venues like neighborhood theaters.  But now people don't need to meet at all, ever, and they don't need to shop in person.  Another problem is people can more easily indulge intense shyness, a problem that in years past they would eventually have to confront.

As to your other point, I think the internet has been much more harmful to cities than any other technological development.

 

Are you counting UO in this? :-D

great news. i'm very happy common sense reigned and the right site was settled on. love it!

 

as for the ny med mart, remember extell is huge developer, but funding or not it is at least five years off as the #7 extension will run right below it. don't hold your breadth on mta rushing that! also, although extell did tear down the copacabana and some other stuff it's already a very complicated multi-level site as it is. so the cle one will most likely be done or nearly done long before they ever get going.

 

if you want to follow what they are up to here's a thread about it on wiredny, nyc's uo-type forum:

http://wirednewyork.com/forum/showthread.php?t=14738&page=6

Hagen was on Fiegler & Friends (ch 25) afterwards a brief round table discussion. . Stay tuned.

I think it's funny/ironic/sad that the one organization, more than any other, that has egg in its face after this decision is the GCP.  Among other things, itt's obvious they "gold-plated" their cost estimate for the Mall site.

He looked like a deer caught in the headlights at the announcement.

I've always been a fan of Tim Hagan.  He really shepered through the mega projects of the city over the past 20 years, like Gateway and RRHOF.

My gut was that he went a bit rouge on this one.  Im sure Nance and maybe MMPI wanted to use the Flats idea to maybe leverage something  from FCE, at least give them another 2 or 3 months to come up with a counter proposal.

My guess, at the afternoon meeting, without PLJ, Hagan told MMPI commit to the mall, or the county shelves the project.  All Hagan needed was DiMora to agree (maybe he was bribed with McNuggets).

 

Regardless if my thoughts on the meeting is off, Hagan was determined to announce the Mall sitw that day