^so I typed that on an iphone at a gay bar just off of nourbon street.  Sue me for misspelling.

 

(yes, its that slow)

Spin-off, who can really say? Parking-wise, none that I can think of - and I imagine that the proposed Staybridge Suites (East 6th and Rockwell) could get a shot in the arm.

I've heard that one is dead. But I heard that a certain young local developer has some plans for that building...

that building was recently awarded tax credits though, correct?

Not sure--but the credits are transferable. It would make sense either way for the current owner to get the credits.

 

I've also think that there are some people who would like to get CMSD out of their building and convert it to a boutique hotel and condos. I have no idea if that's just an idea or something that people are actually looking into.

 

For the record, the East Ohio Gas Building did receive tax credits -- the maximum of $5M in fact.  Hopefully, the combination of the credits and the new convo/MM spurs some activity.

http://www.urbanohio.com/forum2/index.php/topic,15883.msg334355.html#msg334355

As to your other point, I think the internet has been much more harmful to cities than any other technological development.

 

Are you counting UO in this? :-D

 

Aside from UO, of course.

^so I typed that on an iphone at a gay bar just off of nourbon street.  Sue me for misspelling.

 

(yes, its that slow)

 

You're at Oz typing on an iphone?  Lawd.

i'm klassy

 

(good friends)

, could perimeter caissons be installed for what would be the main supports of this style roof?

i'm klassy

 

(good friends)

 

Lawd.  lol

Hey a positive article.

 

New Cleveland convention center will attract business no matter where it is, experts sayPosted by Jim Nichols and Joe Guillen/Plain Dealer Reporter January 25, 2009 06:00AM

 

Chris Stephens/The Plain DealerFor many convention-industry heavyweights, it doesn't matter where a new downtown Cleveland facility is built. They just want a new one.

Several convention planners familiar with Cleveland say that any new convention center could propel the city among the top competitors for trade shows and expos -- even in the dreary winter months.

 

continued at>>>>

http://blog.cleveland.com/metro/2009/01/new_cleveland_convention_cente.html#more

This article is what I have believed from the beginning. We have a great deal to offer the convention community, after all we are "the best location in the nation"! I think mid- sized conventions will beat a path to our door. With the addition of a couple more hotels, we will soon see larger ones. I think this will be great incentive for many small retail and restaurants to invest. We will be securing the core of our downtown with the Mall Site.

 

There is a walkway in place NOW connecting the Crown Plaza Hotel with Public Auditorium. . If you put a catwalk over St. Clair to the Mariott and build another hotel where the current County Admin. Bldg. is Va Va Voom, so much for "connectivity"to hotels

 

There is a walkway in place NOW connecting the Crown Plaza Hotel with Public Auditorium. . If you put a catwalk over St. Clair to the Mariott and build another hotel where the current County Admin. Bldg. is Va Va Voom, so much for "connectivity"to hotels

 

That may be true, but if a large (600+ room), new convention hotel isn't connected with the Mall site rebuild, this will be a bust.  Simply rebuilding the old center alone, isn't good enough.

I really like that article above.  Gets me more motivated.  Let's get this thing moving!!

 

Also, from Cleveland.com this morning:

 

Cuyahoga County Commissioner Tim Hagan defends sudden decision on medical mart site

Posted by Jim Nichols and Joe Guillen/Plain Dealer Reporters January 25, 2009 06:00AM

 

 

 

For three years, Cuyahoga County Commissioner Tim Hagan showed little urgency in seeking a site for a proposed $425 million convention center and medical mart. Just two weeks ago, he defended a proposed delay by saying: "We can't twist anybody's arm."

 

But that all changed sometime between Wednesday night and Thursday morning...

 

 

More at

http://blog.cleveland.com/metro/2009/01/cuyahoga_county_commissioner_t.html

 

There is a walkway in place NOW connecting the Crown Plaza Hotel with Public Auditorium. . If you put a catwalk over St. Clair to the Mariott and build another hotel where the current County Admin. Bldg. is Va Va Voom, so much for "connectivity"to hotels

 

That may be true, but if a large (600+ room), new convention hotel isn't connected with the Mall site rebuild, this will be a bust.  Simply rebuilding the old center alone, isn't good enough.

 

Sorry I don't like catwalks, etc.  They are tacky and look out of place.  We want people on streets.  If they can't deal with a little weather, they are being p----s!  Enough with the coddling BS.

I want to get the damn project done," Hagan said. "I want it to be in the ground and I want it to be done in the next 36 months because I think we have this window of opportunity."

 

As the saying goes, haste makes waste... I can live with the Mall site (at least it's downtown and not at U.Circle which would have been disastrous) so long as it was not motivated solely by cost, speed and/or some anti-Miller/Ratner backlash as opposed to what's best for downtown/the City.  I too was tired of the foot-dragging on of the site selection.  But it does seem awfully strange Hagan suddenly got on the fast track a mere day after MMPI wanted to at least study the Wolstein proposal... Fred Nance is correct about one thing: paranoia and backbiting always seem attendant to major Cleveland projects and that's sad.

I actually don't think that it is that strange that the decision was rushed after Wolstein added a new option.  Fully studying it would have put the process back by months.  Then what, someone else comes forward with another new idea?  Didn't we long ago reject the lakefront site anyway?

I actually don't think that it is that strange that the decision was rushed after Wolstein added a new option.  Fully studying it would have put the process back by months.  Then what, someone else comes forward with another new idea?  Didn't we long ago reject the lakefront site anyway?

 

100% agree!  We all agree the lake front would be better suited for the public and a big hulking building we deter progress and it would be a second stadium on the lakefront.  It wouldn't bee a good things.

 

I personally am glad our convention center is "invisible" and underground.  No city wants a big hulking building with zero street activity after hours.  Example DC and Atlanta.  Our Center will be woven into the urban fabric like Philly's CC.  6 years ago there was nothing in the area surrounding the Philly CC, now the market and several hotels have opened around it.  There not super large hotels, but offer conventioneers multiple options from several brands.

 

This was the right thing.  Let move on.

 

NEXT!!

This thread is 5 years old and the PD wants to call the decision "SUDDEN"!

Screw them, this ariticle sounds like it was written by Sam Miller.

You're not too far off. The PD has been under intense pressure from Forest City Enterprises in recent months and years to write stories that FCE is interested in: county reform, Opportunity Corridor and a convention center at Tower City Center.

^Why is Forest City interested in the Opportunity Corridor?

I was told by one of the Ratners that they own or have ownership interests in properties along it.

I'm not necessarily a supporter of a lakefront convention center, but to say that it wouldn't offer public access to the waterfront has never made sense to me.  The Mall is certainly open to the public, and there was no reason why a public lakefront park wouldn't have been part of the plan, and may have actually jump started lakefront development.  However, if the arguement is that we don't want another white elephant along the lakefront, I can get behind that.  In the end, the existing site makes the most sense.

I'm not necessarily a supporter of a lakefront convention center, but to say that it wouldn't offer public access to the waterfront has never made sense to me. The Mall is certainly open to the public, and there was no reason why a public lakefront park wouldn't have been part of the plan, and may have actually jump started lakefront development. However, if the arguement is that we don't want another white elephant along the lakefront, I can get behind that. In the end, the existing site makes the most sense.

 

That makes sense.  Sure the lakefront CC would have spurred development in the area, but it just doesn't have the connectivity and proximity that the other two locations have.  I would have been happy with either the TC or Mall site, but I think the Commissioners made the correct decision.

 

How desperate is Wolstein to get the FEB moving again?  It seems like this was a desperation move to me.  I'm very hopeful that they'll be able to wait out the credit crunch and get the project moving along again maybe near the end of this year.

They have no business complaining about paranoia when they actually engaged that GCP process, which was all kinds of wrong.  The needless secrecy at every stage gave rise to legitimate concerns about undue influence.  If they want people to trust them, they know how to make that happen.  They chose otherwise and now they have to live with people second guessing, and people wondering about their motivations.

Looks like ol' Frankie isn't very happy about the MM site choice according to Cleveland.com

Cleveland Mayor Frank Jackson lukewarm on proposed site for a medical mart

Posted by jmorona January 26, 2009 09:53AM

 

CLEVELAND — Mayor Frank Jackson has concerns about the city-owned site chosen for a new medical mart and convention center project.

 

This morning, Jackson called all City Council members to his office to share his reservations about the site, which includes the city's existing convention center.

 

Jackson's chief concern is that the foundation beneath the existing convention center might not be strong enough to support a new one.

 

A study done by Merchandise Mart Properties Inc., the Chicago-based company that would own and operate the center, indicated that keeping the existing foundation would make the site less costly than a competing site behind Tower City.

 

The mayor called on council members, who would have to approve the sale of the land, to work with him to set parameters as Cuyahoga County negotiates with MMPI.

 

"If we're not up front as to what our conditions are, we'll be responding to someone else's," Jackson said.

 

http://www.cleveland.com/news/index.ssf/2009/01/cleveland_mayor_shares_concern.html

 

Where is my pen and paper??  Frank let it go.

 

I helped to vote you in office..and if you phuck this up, I'll reconsider next time.  Get it?!

 

Now I've got to take time out of my busy day of internet goofing off and call my council person and PLJ and make sure they get this deal done now!

When did Jackson get his engineering degree?  Is this the PD shilling for Forest City again (little articles like this at any opportunity.... drip drip drip.... you don't even know it is happening...like Chinese water torture).

I really expected him to come down in favor of the city-owned site.  What does he know that we don't?

I really expected him to come down in favor of the city-owned site.  What does he know that we don't?

 

The $10 million dollar question!

I really expected him to come down in favor of the city-owned site. What does he know that we don't?

 

Look at where some of his campaign contributions came from. You will find Forest City Enterprises and the Ratners were very generous to Frank Jackson. The owners of the existing convention center gave no campaign contributions -- because the city owns it.

J and C have been lobbying for from the get go. Censored

What does he know that we don't?

What does he know, or who does he owe?

 

"If we're not up front as to what our conditions are, we'll be responding to someone else's," Jackson said.

I still don't understand how the condition of the foundation is the city's problem. Isn't the plan for the city to sell the property "as is"?

Cimperman also has received a few pennies from FCE. OK, a lot of pennies!

It is not the city's problem period. Their only responsibility is to see that the citizens of Cleveland get the best deal possible and are no longer burdened with maintenance or future development costs.

It is not the city's problem period. Their only responsibility is to see that the citizens of Cleveland get the best deal possible and are no longer burdened with maintenance or future development costs.

 

DING DING DING.  No more calls, we have a winner!

 

However, in the contract fine print, will this become a County problem if not properly built?

^That might be the problem that the Mayor is trying to avoid.  But if the convention center is sold to MMPI as is, and they accept all liabilities associated with the redevelopment, there shouldn't be a problem.

I think the fact that MMPI is involved in this project has made the process be more honest than it generally would be.  Jackson has no leg to stand on in this arguement, and FCE must be pissed that they really are powerless in the whole situation.  MMPI is an out of town developer that has no problem sticking it to FCE and is looking out for their best interest, and in a way, the County/City's best interest because they are both the same.  MMPI wants an on time, on budget project, that is a successful and profitable, same as the county.  FCE has no motivation for the first two.

Excuse me, MMPI doesn't give a damn about FCE, as opposed to trying to give them the finger.

 

"What do you think of me?"

"I don't think of you."

"What do you think of me?"

"I don't think of you."

 

Great reference.

 

But MMPI must have been kinda perturbed at having to dance around this decision for so long.  They don't appear to have liked the TC site at any point.  They put a lot of resources into debunking GCP's report.  If average PD readers can pick up the scent of FCE machinations, these real estate pros from Chicago must have seen it a mile away.  They knew what to do about it.  They've got a Kennedy on board, they know what the score is.

MMPI is responsible for cost overruns. Censored

^Good points. 

A couple of weeks ago Jackson was flying to Chicago to “jump start” the project. Now that a site selection has been made, he’s doing something that can possibly delay it again? :bang:

A couple of weeks ago Jackson was flying to Chicago to “jump start” the project. Now that a site selection has been made, he’s doing something that can possibly delay it again? :bang:

 

Dont forget this was also on his Chicago agenda.... 

 

The mayor said he has heard that MMPI staffers came to Cleveland with a "predetermined conclusion" about the location that didn't take into account research by the Greater Cleveland Partnership that recommended the mart be built at Tower City.

 

and again duh, they knew the research by the GCP was flawed and one-sided so they did their own research and.....

 

I am going to try and ignore all of the politics that are about to be played out with this development until a shovel actually goes into the ground. Hopefully it will all work out. But as far as the project itself I am a big fan of the work that has been done by LMN Architects. To me it is a very well thought out proposal. Contemporary and forward thinking while still respecting the space.  And I hope the MM component of it will be as cutting edge as the equipment it will display. They should be given strong consideration for the work. If you haven't yet checked out their site. Here it is again.

http://www.lmnarchitects.com/projects/project.asp?mkt=3&prj=60

according to this article in today's Carin's looks like the mayor is just looking out for the city interests- I think the PD tried to make it sound like more  than that....

 

“I’m trying to make this work, I just want to be upfront about our conditions,” he said. “I will not be onerous, I will not be prohibitive, I will not kill the deal.”

 

http://www.crainsclevelandbusiness.com/article/20090126/FREE/901269953

Frank is in an election year....of course he is going to come out from behind the scenes and be visible. While i do think that he is looking out for a legitimate concern....it would be MMPI's responsibility anyway. These are the things that the public is concerned with:

 

1 - Public financing: is it available to pay for this project? The answer is yes...the tax is growing as we speak. Unlike NY...we have funding

 

2 - Contract: MMPI will sign a contract that legally binds them to all the cost over runs. If they do the research and they determine that the Mall site is the best....and then they find out later that they DO need to rebuild the foundation....they have to pay for it. MMPI has hired one of the foremost consultants to do their research....i don't think they would choose the site if the foundation was in question...especially because THEY have to pay for it. 

 

3 - Timing: Get the project done!

 

There are some other interesting things i've noticed about the numbers floating around.....

 

- The Forest City site cost estimate does not include the cost for the transportation overhaul that would be required to make the convention center work. New roads, bridges and other access points would need to be created. I can only guess at what cost these would be created

 

- On the flip side, if MMPI (a private company) is the chief operator of the convention center, they can submit for Federal and State historic tax credits for the project. On top of that...the Mall is a historic site and could recieve conservation easements as well as other financing for the project. All of these have not been taken into consideration with the cost estimate for the Mall site!

 

The difference in cost between these two sites is not just $100 million. It could very well be $200 - $225 million

not helpful,I will not post. :wave:

Developers say site proposal on 'bathtub' is what saves money from going down the drain

Posted by Jim Nichols / Plain Dealer Reporter

January 27, 2009 01:43AM

 

If the old Cleveland Convention Center comes down to make room for a replacement, one thing could stay behind: the world's most valuable bathtub.

 

Developers created a stir last week by revealing to public officials that they had found a way to shave nearly 20 percent off the projected cost of building a new convention center.

 

How? By using the old hall's foundation -- which they call "The Bathtub."...

 

more at: http://www.cleveland.com/medicalmart

Jackson was on The Sound of Ideas on WCPN this morning. They spoke to a number of topics, but they kicked it off discussing the Medical Mart. From what he says I don't think he's trying to stymie the project, merely look to the best interest of the city. I think his biggest concern is jockeying for the best market value of the existing space. He kept saying that "it's not a white elephant location, and we have other plans if this doesn't pan out". Probably trying to get as much for the location as possible.

 

http://www.wcpn.org/index.php/WCPN/soi/16153/

You can't simultaneously question the foundation and jockey for high value.

I am going to try and ignore all of the politics that are about to be played out with this development until a shovel actually goes into the ground. Hopefully it will all work out. But as far as the project itself I am a big fan of the work that has been done by LMN Architects. To me it is a very well thought out proposal. Contemporary and forward thinking while still respecting the space. And I hope the MM component of it will be as cutting edge as the equipment it will display. They should be given strong consideration for the work. If you haven't yet checked out their site. Here it is again.

http://www.lmnarchitects.com/projects/project.asp?mkt=3&prj=60

 

hear, hear! understatement of the year. that is one of the most brilliant and forward looking redevelopment designs i have ever seen for anything. if it's to be the mall site, this must be built. hopefully the northern rail station extension can also remain a part of it. it's shovel ready so grab up some obama fed money and make no small plans.