They can not be serious. This is just plain embarrassing. I am stunned.

They can not be serious. This is just plain embarrassing. I am stunned.

 

Not you?  embarrased and stunned about this crap. 

 

for once im loving the comments on cleveland.bomb

I was was just expecting something more practical.

FCE = magic.

"Elsewhere on the site, there would be no sky over the trail, only the underside of a parking garage."

 

Great way to end the article.

my guess is this will go to over who can line the pockets of who ever makes the decisions. plain and simple. it will have nothing to do with what make sense. that would be foolishness.

I really don't know what to say about this proposal from Forest City anymore.  At one point, I could have been pushed by a feather to go towards this site, because of its connectivity and future development of the Scranton Peninsula.  However, the mall site in my opinion is superior.  As sad as it is to see Forest City result to this scaled back development, it is actually funny to me to see this company so desperate to get its hands on guaranteed funds from the taxpayers.  I am actually enjoying this, even more so now that their conceptual development plan looks sub-par for the type of space MMPI wants and this city deserves.

 

The 10th can't come soon enough to have the decision done and over with (finally, again, hopefully, maybe?).  Lets get shovels in the ground for this important project already!!  DAMMIT!!

I think the Cuyahoga River should be kept as close to Tower City Center as possible. FCE will need it as I think they just went off the deep end.

Wow, a straighter Cuyahoga River? I'm sold. Case closed.

Can you believe the PeeDee has buried Litt's article AGAIN!

I think the Cuyahoga River should be kept as close to Tower City Center as possible. FCE will need it as I think they just went off the deep end.

 

ZING! 

I think the Cuyahoga River should be kept as close to Tower City Center as possible. FCE will need it as I think they just went off the deep end.

 

ZING! 

 

Now wouldn't that be a hootenany?

I am actually surprised by the cleveland.bomb comments on Litt's article.

 

BTW, I am sure the Army Corps of Engineers will say, "Sure, straighten the river.  Time to review, screw it, just go ahead and do it."

 

IF Tower City is selected when will the MM be ready, 3 years from now or longer?  At the mall they could be in business in 12 months.  Case closed.

I absolutely love how they lengthen east fourth and west sixth to make the entertainment districts appear closer to the tc site. 

 

for once im loving the comments on cleveland.bomb

 

Seriously...who would have thought Cleveland.bomb has comments that actually make sense.

I'm looking at a Corps of Engineers map showing soundings and channel width throughout the navigation channel.  The section where FC proposes to "straighten" the river is presently dredged to 23'-26' specifically for deep-channel shipping, and it lies within the federal designation for the channel itself.  Punch, it would absolutely take 3 years for USACE to undertake studies, public meetings, and all the other regulatory fooferall needed to make this kind of change.

 

And, let's pretend that FC could shorten the process. One of the reasons that Collision Bend is it's present size and configuration is to provide a margin of safety as the ore carriers make that starboard tack upriver (or port tack downriver). When the wind is whipping up the Valley and the current is strong (both conditions that take place during and after a particularly heavy storm), both forces act to push boats north towards the shoreline.  Since there is a parking lot there, it isn't that big of a deal.  If there was a large, multistory structure built on piers there...

I post under PoorRichrd2 in the PeeDee. I've worked for Cleve-Cliffs, Ogelby-Norton worked the deck and piloted tugs, believe me when I tell you it ain't gonna happen.

i still believe that you need a better architect/planner for something like what they are trying to do at tower city. you really need someone who is VERY good to be able to make that site work, and right now, its NOT working.

 

im goin to the MAUL!

I post under PoorRichrd2 in the PeeDee. I've worked for Cleve-Cliffs, Ogelby-Norton worked the deck and piloted tugs, believe me when I tell you it ain't gonna happen.

 

Funny (sometimes there are little clues) and its fun trying to guess.  Nice work btw.

http://blog.cleveland.com/metro/2009/03/medical_mart_post.html

 

Bingo. As was told to me months ago.

 

Edit; not exactly but I certainly got the gist of it.

http://blog.cleveland.com/metro/2009/03/medical_mart_post.html

 

Bingo. As was told to me months ago.The conversation revolved around the Stokes addition to the library and the Merriot.

 

Edit; not exactly but I certainly got the gist of it.

I know your passionate and excited, but like everyone else, can you PLEASE post a link and the entire story?

 

We've all been asked to do that.  Content links deactiveate after a period of time.  I''m not trying to be mean or rude, but why is this so hard for you to do?

I posted a link and it works.

I really don't know what you want. I know you don't think much of my credibility and you like to have everything proved to your satisfaction. Not my job. I try very hard to be factual and as free with information as I am able. If that is not good enough, take it out of my paycheck. I'll get by.

I posted a link and it works.  I really don't know what you want.

 

Can you PLEASE post a link and the entire story?

 

Every poster has been asked to do that. 

This reminds me of one of my favorite movies ever, Rushmore

 

Coach Beck: What's going on here, Maxie?

Max Fischer: Oh, hey, coach beck. Good to see you.  This is where we're putting in the new aquarium.  I'm in charge of the committee, if you can believe it.

Coach Beck: This is my baseball diamond.

Max Fischer: Yeah, I know, and I believe it's being relocated a few feet over.

 

It's hard to believe they are wasting everyone's time with this. 

This reminds me of one of my favorite movies ever, Rushmore

 

Coach Beck: What's going on here, Maxie?

Max Fischer: Oh, hey, coach beck. Good to see you. This is where we're putting in the new aquarium. I'm in charge of the committee, if you can believe it.

Coach Beck: This is my baseball diamond.

Max Fischer: Yeah, I know, and I believe it's being relocated a few feet over.

 

It's hard to believe they are wasting everyone's time with this.

 

Are you referring to the site selection or the "link" debate between MTS and GP. ;)

I just got a packet in the mail at Sun Newspapers from Flats East Bank/Wolstein. It's a very expensively produced, bound booklet presentation on why the convention center/medical mart should be put where the Eaton headquarters was proposed to go (on the lakefront just east of the river's mouth).

 

My suggestion: stop this already! Just build the f*cker below the mall. Turn the page.

I just got a packet in the mail at Sun Newspapers from Flats East Bank/Wolstein. It's a very expensively produced, bound booklet presentation on why the convention center/medical mart should be put where the Eaton headquarters was proposed to go (on the lakefront just east of the river's mouth).

 

My suggestion: stop this already! Just build the f*cker below the mall. Turn the page.

 

How about saving the publication money so they can spend it later on a new and improved East Bank development!!!!!!!

I saw the other day that DDR is just getting raked over the coals in the stock market.  The new worth of the Wolstien family must have plummetted.  While I genuinely feel for the Wolstiens, I think they have done Cleveland well over the past decade, the CC should be at the mall.

 

I hope the Port and the county do everything they can to help the project, short of building the CC there.

I'm becoming concerned about the future of the FEB project, since they are going to such lengths to get MM/CC there now.  These efforts don't reflect well on their original plan.  I hope someone has mentioned that at one of their staff meetings.  I have a big soft spot for the Wolsteins because of all they do for CSU.  I'd really like to stick with their original flats plan and let MMPI handle MM/CC as they see fit.

FCE & DDR are in the "it's so bad, we have already sunk so much into it, what have we got to lose" mode. They are panicky and I don't blame them. Jacobs keeps a cool head. I admire that. Wolstein has done many wonderful things for the community. I would like to see a big push for FEB as soon as the dust clears at the Mall. That would really put some wind in Cleveland's sails.

Medical mart deal will be done this month, officials say

Posted by Joe Guillen/Plain Dealer Reporter March 06, 2009 18:37PM

 

A deal to sell the Cleveland Convention Center to Cuyahoga County for the medical mart project should be completed by the end of the month, officials said on Friday. Cleveland Mayor Frank Jackson and County Commissioner Tim Hagan met for about 45 minutes at City Hall in the afternoon to open negotiations between the two sides.

 

More at cleveland.com

http://blog.cleveland.com/metro/2009/03/medical_mart_deal_will_be_done.html

 

For this to get hung up between the city and county is patently absurd.  Political units are arbitrary.  Jackson, just take your money.

For this to get hung up between the city and county is patently absurd.  Political units are arbitrary.  Jackson, just take your money.

 

Sorry, I don't agree.  He should not just give it away.  I cannot agree to that.  Get the most money you can for the citizens of Cleveland and the proper assurances from the County and MMPI that the property will maintain it historical integrity.

I'm becoming concerned about the future of the FEB project, since they are going to such lengths to get MM/CC there now. These efforts don't reflect well on their original plan. I hope someone has mentioned that at one of their staff meetings. I have a big soft spot for the Wolsteins because of all they do for CSU. I'd really like to stick with their original flats plan and let MMPI handle MM/CC as they see fit.

 

You're right.  I thought MMPI at FEB had some merit, but it was truly disturbing in, at least the plan I saw, how much of the housing had been forfeited in the plan.  And yes it does seem like a desperate Wolstein grab to juice FEB.  I'm holding out slim hope that somehow Wolstein's original FEB plan can get going again, but it appears a long shot -- I refuse to allow myself to believe Wolstein bulldozed FEB for zilch, empty land... but, hey, we've had a ton of bad news in this town of late.  It wouldn't be a total surprise.

I guess when it's viewed as a suburb to city wealth transfer, a high price ain't so bad.  It still shouldn't come down to local infighting.  That makes us seem so discombobulated.

I guess when it's viewed as a suburb to city wealth transfer, a high price ain't so bad.  It still shouldn't come down to local infighting.  That makes us seem so discombobulated.

 

Where is this seen as "in fighting"?  In this day and age, "due diligence" is in deed what the mayor should be doing.  Making sure the county/MMPI pay top dollar for a historical valued asset and that the property is not devalued in the restoration/renovation process and they are used to a maximum potential.

The COUNTY has been subsidizing the City owned Convention Center @ 6 MILLION + for DECADES and without it the Center would be rubble. I should think that would be at least be a small consideration. The City has benefited hugely from the County over the years. It is now offering to relieve the City of a annual 2 Million BURDEN that they are unable to sustain on their own in addition to giving them a new revenue source. The City should show a little gratitude. I would suggest the City not look a gift horse in the mouth.

Sorry, that has nothing to do with the sale.  and if you want to go there, the city owned facility benefited all the live in the county so it's a wash.

 

If the city were to say, "here just take it" and, it was destroyed, severe damage, the plans as verbal said compared to what is physically being done changed, etc., etc., the mayor and council would be seen as incompetent and giving away an iconic part of the city.

 

I say cover all the bases so there is no question the right thing is being/has been done so that the city and county both come out winners.

Has anyone been following recovery.ohio.gov/more wishlist (current submission list).

Could almost be it's own topic thread - a lot of big idea projects.

City of Cleveland has requested 20 million just for the medical mart/convention center project.

"This funding will allow for the construction of the proposed Medical Mart and new Convention Center in downtown Cleveland. A new Convention Center paired with the Medical Mart has the potential to create jobs, invigorate convention business, capitalize on Cleveland's successful health care industry and position the City for future growth." According to their submission it will create 950 jobs.

According to their submission it will create 950 jobs.

City of Cleveland has requested 20 million just for the medical mart/convention center project.

 

I'm dying to hear this explained. Is Frank trying to "buy in" with Federal dollars? Would this foul up Fed tax credits that I am sure MMPI is expecting?? Monkey wrench.

 

I am sure they can parse it to seperate government work from the private.  For instance, the money could be used for the public Mall B and C, which is not part of the convention center, but would have to be rebuilt after construction.

 

"This funding will allow for the construction of the proposed Medical Mart and new Convention Center in downtown Cleveland.  

 

This quote seems clear to me.

I am hoping tomorrow we hear a clear answer regarding the site selection of this project!!  Whohoo!!

Forest City making late bid to salvage medical mart project for Tower City

Posted by Joe Guillen/Plain Dealer Reporter March 10, 2009 12:09PM

 

CHICAGO — Executives from Forest City Enterprises are in Chicago today, making what could be their last pitch to build a new medical mart and convention center at the downtown Tower City Center, a site Cuyahoga County commissioners have passed over for the project.

 

More at cleveland.com

http://blog.cleveland.com/metro/2009/03/forest_city_making_late_bid_to.html

 

 

Question about the ownership structure. If I understand correctly, MMPI owns the center for a period of 20 years, after which ownership is relinguished. In this arrangement, does ownership return to the city or to the county?

Question about the ownership structure. If I understand correctly, MMPI owns the center for a period of 20 years, after which ownership is relinguished. In this arrangement, does ownership return to the city or to the county?

 

County

Forest City Enterprises continues to fight for medical mart project

Posted by Joe Guillen/Plain Dealer Reporter March 10, 2009 21:04PM

 

It does not appear Forest City Enterprises gained much ground Tuesday trying to land the medical mart project for its Tower City property. "There's nothing that jumps out at you and really feels like it's so compelling to move there," said a top official of Merchandise Mart Properties Inc. after a lengthy meeting with Forest City in Chicago on Tuesday.

 

More at cleveland.com

http://blog.cleveland.com/metro/2009/03/forest_city_enterprises_contin.html

 

Forest City Enterprises continues to fight for medical mart project

Posted by dsims March 10, 2009 21:04PM

Plain Dealer File

Forest City Enterprises has not given up the fight to have the medical mart project built on its Tower City property. It does not appear Forest City Enterprises gained much ground Tuesday trying to land the medical mart project for its Tower City property.

 

More at cleveland.com

http://blog.cleveland.com/metro/2009/03/forest_city_enterprises_contin.html

 

I had to bold that little blurb about the Higbee building... wasn't that pulled from Forest City as the reason why it was not included? 

Question about the ownership structure. If I understand correctly, MMPI owns the center for a period of 20 years, after which ownership is relinguished. In this arrangement, does ownership return to the city or to the county?

 

County

 

That's a little alarming to me. If the city won't eventually regain ownership, then I understand a little better Jackson being wary about the site and talking about making sure the city gets a fair price. I wonder what the estimated payment to the city would be as a component of the overall estimate for the Mall site. Granted, this project would be great for the city, but I would hate to see us asked to sell a huge civic monument like that for pennies on the dollar.