FCE will paint a picture and tell you ANYTHING you want to hear, then do what what they please. It is their history. It is the way they do things. It is but a means to an end.

 

I have to agree. 

FCE will paint a picture and tell you ANYTHING you want to hear, then do what what they please. It is their history. It is the way they do things. It is but a means to an end.

 

I have to agree.

 

Aren't a lot of big box real estate companies like that?

 

By the way, nice spinning stars, MTS.  Are those a limited edition that was made just for you?

There's a way you too can have dancing stars!!

FCE is just relentless. This was their public pitch in the PD today(see pdf attachment). Yes, now they want our support. Since when has FCE ever given a sh!t about what the public thinks. IMO, to them this is all about public money. For the likes of FCE and even the Wolstiens to some extent public money is like heroin to them, they just cant stop themselves. I do feel for FCE in some ways as they do need something at TC to make it work. Unlike some others I am not a TC basher, I want it to succeed. After all they did take a chance about 20 years ago when no one else did. And up to this point it has to be considered a success. While other cities struggle with downtown retail malls, TC is holding its own. We need it to be successful. Maybe they can work themselves into the casino picture. That space and those renderings could easily be considered for the casino proposal.

 

http://riverfrontcc.net/

FCE is just relentless. This was their public pitch in the PD today(see pdf attachment). Yes, now they want our support. Since when has FCE ever given a sh!t about what the public thinks. IMO, to them this is all about public money. For the likes of FCE and even the Wolstiens to some extent public money is like heroin to them, they just cant stop themselves. I do feel for FCE in some ways as they do need something at TC to make it work. Unlike some others I am not a TC basher, I want it to succeed. After all they did take a chance about 20 years ago when no one else did. And up to this point it has to be considered a success. While other cities struggle with downtown retail malls, TC is holding its own. We need it to be successful. Maybe they can work themselves into the casino picture. That space and those renderings could easily be considered for the casino proposal.

 

http://riverfrontcc.net/

 

And just like NCB and other failed company's FC let tower city falter.  It's nobody's fault but there own.  It could and should be the premiere mall in Ohio, but they LET it fail.

 

Trying to tack, yes tack a convention center onto a mall is a desperate attempt to save something they let fail.  They should concentrate on improving the mall as a mall.

 

I will not go there and neither should anyone else, as there is significant discussion in other threads about this.

 

 

By placing this Ad in the PD, they are starting a publicity war in the court of public opinion which will attempt to make a mockery of the County Government & MMPI.

 

I am confident MMPI and our elected officials will see right thru this.

honestly, is there much of a difference between a paid ad pushing the "connectivity" of TC and the "reporting" done by the PD?

honestly, is there much of a difference between a paid ad pushing the "connectivity" of TC and the "reporting" done by the PD?

No, when you consider the source of the ad and the "line" of money the PD.

When I see all this crap in the PeeDee, I see it as a bunch of unimaginative, arrogant and incestuous corporate titans in full protect mode. But protect mode isn't growth mode. Nor is it leadership. Nor is it inspirational. Instead it's repulsive and that's about the only thing that's "working." See the people flee...

Connectivity is the incestuous relationship between Forest City, the PeeDee, GCP, City Hall, the local Mayors, politicians and power brokers. The unwanted stepchild is the citizen. If they are allowed to get away with this, we are a bunch of no account rubes.

I wonder if "connectivity" will find its place of honor in the threads of urbanohio.com along side "world class signage"

This is a morning I have to go to the local "hash house" for breakfast, to read the house paper and talk. I will not buy the PeeDee except to read my own obituary. Landmark 54th & St.Clair.

buying a paper to read your obituary is a neat trick

This is a morning I have to go to the local "hash house" for breakfast, to read the house paper and talk. I will not buy the PeeDee except to read my own obituary. Landmark 54th & St.Clair.

 

I was going to see the paper because I heard there was a full pg. FCE ad. It was in SUNDAY's paper. Anyone have it?

This is a morning I have to go to the local "hash house" for breakfast, to read the house paper and talk. I will not buy the PeeDee except to read my own obituary. Landmark 54th & St.Clair.

 

I was going to see the paper because I heard there was a full pg. FCE ad. It was in SUNDAY's paper. Anyone have it?

Try this, http://riverfrontcc.net/collateral/final_ForestCity_ad.pdf

^^^

There's a way you too can have dancing stars!!

 

I know, donate money.  I really, really wish I could, but the mister and I are trying to buff up our savings accounts in the event anything happens to his job (being a grad student, I have great job stability, lol).  I was only asking since MTS started a whole thread the other day about wanting special stars for being a supporting member :))

 

And....  I can't believe Forest City put that whole ad in the paper.  They apparently don't understand the meaning of "no".  It's almost like their company's existence depends on landing this project (no I don't have any special information or anything, that's just my opinion).

This is a morning I have to go to the local "hash house" for breakfast, to read the house paper and talk. I will not buy the PeeDee except to read my own obituary. Landmark 54th & St.Clair.

 

I was going to see the paper because I heard there was a full pg. FCE ad. It was in SUNDAY's paper. Anyone have it?

Try this, http://riverfrontcc.net/collateral/final_ForestCity_ad.pdf

 

FCE is painting the picture they want the public to see.  First, I would be SHOCKED if their construction would be done a full year ahead of any plans for the current site... particularly b/c of their need to straighten colission bend.

 

Second, how would continued operation of the current CC (while the TC is under construction) in its current state have an economic benefit on the region.  Doesn't the CC cause the City to LOSE money each year due to its low use and high operating expense even with the County subsidizing the costs.

 

Finally, they show an image from Huron which seems to suggest the possibility of some enhanced street activity, but fail to discuss how the infrastructure around that area would be improved to be more pedestrian friendly.  There are few areas of town that are more intimidating to pedestrians than Huron/Ontario.  Very wide and busy intersection, cars coming from every direction, the behemoth TC/TT/Landmark complex to walk around unless you want to walk through TC (surely FCE's goal).

 

All that said, I do like the rendering.

The spoiled brat antics of FC is really getting nauseating.  So I foresee FC not getting their site selected...then paying a PI to dig up as much dirt as possible on MMPI to slam them as a pout and foot stomp reaction to not getting chosen

FCE wants to sell a worthless piece of property to the County in hope that if MMPI is successful at that location it will improve their property value. If not there will be no skin off their nose and has cost them nothing. They then take our money and offer a small part back to a compliant City of Cleveland, in return for the empty CC on the Mall which has more potential for development. Win/Win for FCE. Guess who gets screwed? Everyone but them. It really is a good plan.

 

Whatever they estimated for straighting out the river, don't bet on it. I know, even with my small amount of dredging experience, it would be no cake walk. That, I guarantee. 

Remember my first post.

 

FCE thinks ethical is a kind of gasoline for burning taxpayers.

Med mart would disrupt Cleveland mall's signature design, Forest City executive says

Posted by Joe Guillen/Plain Dealer Reporter

March 17, 2009 05:30AM

 

 

Cleveland's historic downtown mall would undergo dramatic change if a new convention center is built below, according to a Forest City Enterprises executive. The underground complex would elevate sections of the mall as much as 10 feet above Lakeside Avenue, further obstructing views of Lake Erie, said Forest City co-chairman Al Ratner, in a meeting Monday with Plain Dealer editors and reporters.

 

The mall would turn into a collection of walls and stairs, disrupting the century-old vision of architect Daniel Hudson Burnham, said Ratner, who is pushing his company's competing site behind Tower City for a combined medical mart/convention center...

 

 

http://blog.cleveland.com/metro/2009/03/downtown_cleveland_malls_signa.html#preview

FCE cannot be serious?  There are so many things wrong with this and the PD is being used as a tool to "sway" public opinion.  But it looks like they got to one person on the commission.  Pathetic.  How can they claim to want the best for Cleveland when they want to stunt growth (ie see CSU development thread).  Nor have they done what is best for TC.

 

 

 

Also I had to laugh when Forset City said ""This is all done with smoke and mirrors."

 

Hmmm, the experts at "smoke and mirrors"

From reading the comments below the article it would appear not too many people are having much sympathy for FCE.  I think I noticed only one comment in 30+ that thought they should still get the project.  I don't think the PD dares put a poll out to see what the public feels, even an on-line one.

Expectations too high for medical mart complex, some experts sayby Jim Nichols, Plain Dealer reporter

Tuesday March 17, 2009, 10:02 AM

 

CLEVELAND -- Merchandise Mart Properties Inc. President Christopher Kennedy proclaims his company's plan for a taxpayer-funded medical mart and convention center here would turn Cleveland into "a Disney World for doctors."

 

Yet some medical-industry insiders and convention-world experts wonder whether MMPI's business plan for its partnership with Cuyahoga County isn't as fanciful as a Disney fairy tale...

 

http://www.cleveland.com/medicalmart/index.ssf/2009/03/expectations_too_high_for_medi.html

Mart backers' goal: Make Cleveland a medical-industry mecca

by Jim Nichols / Plain Dealer reporter

Tuesday March 17, 2009, 11:05 AM

 

It's called a medical mart, but an equally apt name might be "the medical-tourism mart."

 

"The goal, in its simplest form, is to convert Cleveland's unassailable global leadership in the medical field into a hospitality-driven economy focused on trade shows and conferences in the medical field," said Christopher Kennedy, president of Merchandise Mart Properties Inc...

 

http://www.cleveland.com/medicalmart/index.ssf/2009/03/mart_backers_goal_make_clevela.html

Full Press Offense.

Dear god make it stop.......

This is getting to be ridiculous. The PD should be ashmed. They're nothing but a pawn in FCE's pathetic attempt to land this project. I think the PD may have done more to hurt this town than other organization in the history of Cleveland. 

Wow, one half good article about the MM, then two trying to convince everyone to kill the project.  I wonder if the editors just said "do everything you can to sink it"  FCE did buy a full page ad.  I wonder if they negotiated how many anti CC/MM articles it would get as part of the deal.

 

Whats up with Mayor Jackson signing a year lease with the movie production company?  The timing is suspect.

 

So if FCE/PD is successful in poisening the mall site, is there a snowballs chance in hell that MMPI wouldn't rather walk away rather than deal with them? 

This is getting to be ridiculous. The PD should be ashmed. They're nothing but a pawn in FCE's pathetic attempt to land this project. I think the PD may have done more to hurt this town than other organization in the history of Cleveland. 

 

Yes, for the most part, the Plain Dealer has outlived it's usefullness.  Like the banks, airlines and automotive industry, the people in charge have allowed things to go unchecked for so long, the region itself now believes "doom and gloom" is synonymous with Cleveland.

 

However, I too would (and have in the past) use the media as my tool, I'm just smart enough to do it without the obvious editorial slant that the Plain Dealer writers and reports do so freely.  There is no such thing as separation of "Church and State" at the Plain Dealer.

 

As I've said before, the entire paper needs to be gutted and brought back as the CLEVELAND PLAIN DEALER.  In order to change the toxic culture at the Plain Dealer, all employees need to be fired!

 

 

 

Wow, one half good article about the MM, then two trying to convince everyone to kill the project.  I wonder if the editors just said "do everything you can to sink it"  FCE did buy a full page ad.  I wonder if they negotiated how many anti CC/MM articles it would get as part of the deal.

 

Whats up with Mayor Jackson signing a year lease with the movie production company?  The timing is suspect.

 

So if FCE/PD is successful in poisening the mall site, is there a snowballs chance in hell that MMPI wouldn't rather walk away rather than deal with them? 

 

I don't think its suspect as they have been trying to land this for a while.  In the event the new center is built, they'll need to negotiate building a production facility, for this company. 

 

If Cleveland signs this deal, MMPI would then be forced to find this company new space.  That how I interpret this without seeing a contract.

 

That means we get two birds in the bush.  I wouldn't think of this as a negative or an attempt to impede progress/negotiations of the Mall site.

 

NOW, having said that.  If this happens, I can see FC getting the production facility on their property as a "gift" since they wont get the MM/CC.

 

Personally, if the MM site is compromised, I see MMPI walking away.  I would.

Wow, one half good article about the MM, then two trying to convince everyone to kill the project. I wonder if the editors just said "do everything you can to sink it" FCE did buy a full page ad. I wonder if they negotiated how many anti CC/MM articles it would get as part of the deal.

 

A big part of me shares that view.  But if you squint and forget about all the context (PD has FCE cheerleader)...the piece that reports skepticism about the whole med mart concept is actually pretty solid journalism...a reminder about why we need a daily paper that can pay reporters to research topics.  Of course the piece would have been a lot more timely a year or three ago, before this thing got so close to actually breaking ground.

Over a year ago, I heard that the City had lined up another location for the film companies if the convention center would be rebuilt in the current location.

That is good news

Over a year ago, I heard that the City had lined up another location for the film companies if the convention center would be rebuilt in the current location.

 

I tried to find that information.  I vaguely recall that and I bet a FCE property is involved.  Watch the money trail kids.

^you could be correct, but I think it was some other city-owned space.

Over a year ago, I heard that the City had lined up another location for the film companies if the convention center would be rebuilt in the current location.

 

is this going to be for "Torso"?

 

i had heard about that a while back.. yes i realize its kind of off topic, but then, its kind of on topic, right? :D

 

better than discussing the same crappy PD reporting over and over..

MTC

 

  "Personally if the MM site is compromised, I see MMPI walking away.  I would."

 

I see that as a very real possibility. I'll go one better. I'd call it likely. What it will leave in it's wake is the impression /fact that outside development and business interests are not welcome here. DOA. Dead on Arrival.

 

 

 

I predict the next round of articles in the PD would be to dig into MMPI business practices and trying to throw dirt on Chris Kennedy

http://nolandgrab.org/

 

Three months later, Morningstar again says Forest City Enterprises stock is worthless

 

Atlantic Yards Report

 

Even though Forest City Enterprises tried to discredit Morningstar's previous analysis that downgraded the company's stock rating to nearly worthless, it didn't prevent Morningstar from reasserting its position, though other industry analysts disagree:

 

    It looks like déjà vu from December. An analyst from Morningstar, in a report (subscribers-only) that repeats nearly verbatim the conclusions in a report issued three months ago, yesterday again warned that stock from Forest City Enterprises (FCE), parent company of Forest City Ratner, is essentially worthless.

 

    And, most likely, company representatives will fire back, as they did in December, by contrasting Morningstar's take with more optimistic assessments from other analysts and pointing out that the Morningstar analyst didn't speak to them.

 

    Indeed, for the past three months, five analysts tracking FCE have consistently rated the stock (FCE.A) as a buy, or 2, on a scale of 1 (Strong Buy) to 5 (Sell), according to Yahoo Finance.

 

    Specifically, two called it a Strong Buy (1), one called it a buy (2), and two recommended Hold (3). No one rated it Underperform (4) or Sell (5).

 

Modify

 

I bet you won't see this in the PeeDee.

While I am upset with FCE, I really don't want them to completely fail and fall apart.  It is a prominant Cleveland based company, and Sam Miller won't live forever.  Maybe the next generation will value Cleveland a little better.

 

That said, if it came to shoehorning the CC/MM at Tower City to keep FCE alive, I would let FCE die.

 

I am not interested in FCE's success or failure. I am interested in a successful MM/Convention Center.

While I am upset with FCE, I really don't want them to completely fail and fall apart.  It is a prominant Cleveland based company, and Sam Miller won't live forever.  Maybe the next generation will value Cleveland a little better.

 

That said, if it came to shoehorning the CC/MM at Tower City to keep FCE alive, I would let FCE die.

 

 

Agreed.  The future of this town does not depend on Forest City alone, but on all companies, institutions, and current and future citizens working together to move Cleveland forward.  I would HATE to see this project jeopardized because of one company's agenda.  If MMPI doesn't get get the Mall site, I could see them walking away from this.  That is NOT the message we want to send to the nation.

Speaking of Forest City, is this ANY coincidence?

 

http://www.cleveland.com/movies/index.ssf/2009/03/lease_signed_to_create_film_st.html

 

Lease signed to create film studio and soundstage in Cleveland Convention Center

Posted by mnorman March 17, 2009 16:30PM

 

CLEVELAND — New York-based Nehst Studios, confident that Ohio will pass tax incentives for film productions soon, is getting ready to start shooting two family films in Cleveland. Nehst Studios has signed a lease with the city of Cleveland that will allow the company to create a permanent Hollywood-caliber film studio in the Cleveland Convention Center, said Nehst founder Larry Meistrich.

 

But production on the films -- and later, a television series -- won't start until a tax bill is passed that gives incentives for television and film productions that work in Ohio...

While I am upset with FCE, I really don't want them to completely fail and fall apart.  It is a prominant Cleveland based company, and Sam Miller won't live forever.  Maybe the next generation will value Cleveland a little better.

 

That said, if it came to shoehorning the CC/MM at Tower City to keep FCE alive, I would let FCE die.

 

 

Trust me, if they fell apart they might come back in a better position.  It wouldn't be the worst thing to happen to a company

It is a prominant Cleveland based company, and Sam Miller won't live forever.  Maybe the next generation will value Cleveland a little better.

 

I doubt it.  The next generation are running offices in other growing regions where they are active.  For example Deborah Ratner lives in DC and runs the DC office.  So they will have less ties to Cleveland, and I only see that deminishing when Sam is gone.   

I am not up on this but does Sam Miller really have that much to do with the day to day running of the company?  He has got to be a zillion years old.  I thought it was one of the Ratners.

Medical mart developer rejects Tower City site: 'non-starter'

 

Posted by Joe Guillen

"[N]ot credible" is somewhat strong language for official statements like this.  Good.

And cue another stream of Forest City-sponsored PD articles...