I was at first skeptical about putting the MM on Mall C, but I like the way this plan looks.  I actually am glad that the MM isn't going to be lined up with the courthouse and city hall and is more or less on its own.  It could be more distinctive that way. 

 

I also like the fact that it's going to put more of a finished look on the side of the cliff; it makes for a front door to the north of downtown and could make it more inclined to a tie-in with a potential North Coast Transportation Center.  I think the entrance pavilions at the south of Mall B are pretty key, so it connects to the center of downtown better and doesn't feel like it's completely isolated.

 

Any idea how much was actually going to be spent on the Public Hall renovations?  I'm hoping that money goes to improving the design of the MM, but I'm not holding my breath.

If this was built would it hinder the future construction of the North Coast Transportation Center?  The incorporation of this Transit Center should be considered by MMPI for their final design. 

Depending on how it is designed, this configuration of the MM could either greatly enhance or severely harm the prospects for the NCTC as part of the planned linkages between the Malls and North Coast Harbor.

 

This is where the City Planning Commission needs to assert itself.

I was at first skeptical about putting the MM on Mall C, but I like the way this plan looks.  I actually am glad that the MM isn't going to be lined up with the courthouse and city hall and is more or less on its own.  It could be more distinctive that way. 

 

I also like the fact that it's going to put more of a finished look on the side of the cliff; it makes for a front door to the north of downtown and could make it more inclined to a tie-in with a potential North Coast Transportation Center.  I think the entrance pavilions at the south of Mall B are pretty key, so it connects to the center of downtown better and doesn't feel like it's completely isolated.

 

Any idea how much was actually going to be spent on the Public Hall renovations?  I'm hoping that money goes to improving the design of the MM, but I'm not holding my breath.

 

I agree that it is much better that it not lined up with City Hall and the court house.

 

I dont know what I think of the entrance pavilions.  I guess if the MM wont go on the St Clair property and they wont be using public hall I guess they would be neccesary, but they would only help with access to the CC. (which makes me mad since they would be doing away with any current access points)

 

I believe they had something like $35 million budgeted for Public Hall.

 

CLICK TO SEE IMAGE:

http://media.cleveland.com/metro/photo/mart-graphicjpg-9eb422c9ca0c5ce7.jpg

 

Willyboy, sorry but I had to replace your posting of the copyrighted image from the Plain Dealer with a link to that image.

They say (I guess the first three floors) would look into the convention center, great for medical conventions, but will the CC not be hosting other events?  Is that really a plus to see up into a medical mart from the home and flower show?

 

And the flip side (and worse part, IMHO), the convention center will lose its views of the lake and north coast harbor, which I would think remove the luster of what could be a very special large event space.

 

I'm not sure I care about providing vehicular access along the edges of Mall C. 

 

I care a lot that it's now that much farther from public square, Euclid and most hotels.  I can just imagine some medical shoppers walking through an April snowstorm to tower city and muttering to themselves "never again".

There already is vehicle access on all four sides of Mall C.

They say (I guess the first three floors) would look into the convention center, great for medical conventions, but will the CC not be hosting other events?  Is that really a plus to see up into a medical mart from the home and flower show?

 

And the flip side (and worse part, IMHO), the convention center will lose its views of the lake and north coast harbor, which I would think remove the luster of what could be a very special large event space.

 

I'm not sure I care about providing vehicular access along the edges of Mall C. 

 

I care a lot that it's now that much farther from public square, Euclid and most hotels.  I can just imagine some medical shoppers walking through an April snowstorm to tower city and muttering to themselves "never again".

 

Exactly..  and thus the extra need for taxi drop offs etc. 

 

Thanks KJP, I forgot  :|

Depending on how it is designed, this configuration of the MM could either greatly enhance or severely harm the prospects for the NCTC as part of the planned linkages between the Malls and North Coast Harbor.

 

This is where the City Planning Commission needs to assert itself.

 

I really loved the idea of having a transit center just north of mall c. Does anyone involve in the decision making consider a transit center for possible future plans? If they don't maybe someone should tell them about it.

What is the point of having the transit center at this location? The waterfront line is hardly used. The amtrak train comes once each day in the middle of the night. If it were used as a bus drop off, it is too far from any office buildings.

What is the point of having the transit center at this location? The waterfront line is hardly used. The amtrak train comes once each day in the middle of the night. If it were used as a bus drop off, it is too far from any office buildings.

 

I don't think any serious talk about the NCTC would start up until (and if) the 3-C plan gets approval.

 

And the flip side (and worse part, IMHO), the convention center will lose its views of the lake and north coast harbor, which I would think remove the luster of what could be a very special large event space.

 

I was under the impression that the ballroom would be included in the MM building and it would actually enhance the lake views from the inside.  Now, if they add a rooftop terrace (or something similar), that would certainly be appealing as well.

 

The Mall will be elevated and the MM will elevate above the Mall.  There are plenty of opportunities to incorporate lake views.

Question:  Regarding, the $300,000/month that the taxpayers have been paying to the MMPI, is this refundable should the project fold? 

I care a lot that it's now that much farther from public square, Euclid and most hotels.  I can just imagine some medical shoppers walking through an April snowstorm to tower city and muttering to themselves "never again".

 

This is why I like the inclusion of the pavilions along the south of Mall B.  The western one would allow access right across the street from where the MM was originally proposed.  While it's not the MM itself, it's at least a way for a medical shoppers to avoid at least some of those spring snowstorms.  I'm assuming that there'd be a way for them to go from the mart itself to the pavilions without having to walk through the actual convention space.  Hopefully they're also designed to be less like back doors and more like a prominant entrance.

What is the point of having the transit center at this location? The waterfront line is hardly used. The amtrak train comes once each day in the middle of the night. If it were used as a bus drop off, it is too far from any office buildings.

 

By that same argument, what's the point of rebuilding a convention center that's hardly used?

 

The NCTC would offer these benefits:

 

> pedestrian concourse (indoor) and rooftop plaza (outdoor) linkages over the railroad tracks and possibly the Shoreway between the convention center and North Coast Harbor, including leasable spaces for retailers, advertisers, etc.

 

> unite RTA bus and rail, Laketran, Akron Metro, PARTA, Amtrak and possibly, Greyhound, Lakefront and Megabus into a single facility.

 

> could also include some convention and medical mart facilities, either in the interim or for long-term expansion, overflow, etc.

 

I really loved the idea of having a transit center just north of mall c. Does anyone involve in the decision making consider a transit center for possible future plans? If they don't maybe someone should tell them about it.

 

The city of Cleveland is attempting to ID planning funding to conduct preliminary engineering of the North Coast Transportation Center in order to attract federal funding for it.

 

Except as this relates to the MM/CC, I encourage you to discuss this project at the NCTC thread:

http://www.urbanohio.com/forum2/index.php/topic,17673.0.html

While I still highly prefer the St. Claire site over the Mall C site, I'll be okay with the MM being built on the Mall C site.  One thing I will be okay with is if this facility is significantly scaled back. This is supposed to be a world class facility.

I think the Mall C site will depend a lot on the way it is designed. If there are plenty of public spaces around it where one can get a view of the lake, the design itself meshes well with the surroundings, and there is nothing about the design that would preclude a future NCTC being tacked onto the North end of it, then Mall C could be appropriate. I'm anxious to see renderings of how it would look.

I think the Mall C site will depend a lot on the way it is designed. If there are plenty of public spaces around it where one can get a view of the lake, the design itself meshes well with the surroundings, and there is nothing about the design that would preclude a future NCTC being tacked onto the North end of it, then Mall C could be appropriate. I'm anxious to see renderings of how it would look.

Absolutely. I agree it could work, but I still prefer the St. Claire location for a number of reasons.

 

I'm most concerned about the quality of the facility. They put it just about wherever they want as long as Cleveland gets a world-class Medical Mart.

I think think they will drag it out and pull out. I  see nothing but a half baked cobbled together mess. I am tired of looking at artist renderings of pie in the sky. Since conception this has been one promise after another to the point NO ONE knows what is going on! From the Power Point Presentation yesterday (I was there) it seems MMPI has no idea themselves, other then they have a lot of money, don't quite know how to spend it and don't know what they want but more.. They have no intention of putting 1 nickel of their own money into it.

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE:

November 18, 2009

A Statement from the Office of the Mayor

 

Mayor Jackson Questions MMPI’s Motives: Do They Really Want To Be Here?

 

CLEVELAND – Since Mayor Jackson has been crystal clear on his willingness to keep Public

Auditorium and explore MMPI’s new plan, MMPI’s latest actions cause him and others to

question their motives. The city and taxpayers need to know if MMPI still plans to develop in

Cleveland. The Mayor has been very supportive of and committed to this project. For an

example, once the County selected the site, Mayor Jackson and City Council turned this deal into

a letter of intent within 10 weeks. MMPI has had unlimited access to investigate the site since

the spring. After many months of silence by MMPI and continuing inquiry by the City of

Cleveland, on November 4, MMPI told Mayor Jackson and Council President Martin Sweeney

that Public Auditorium had many problems, that it no longer fit their business plan, and that

they now want to put the Medical Mart at the end of Mall C (rather than on the previous St.

Clair site). Mayor Jackson responded that the City is perfectly willing to keep Public Auditorium

and is ready to discuss the new plan. Two days later Mayor Jackson’s staff asked MMPI to send

the highlights of the Public Auditorium building study. Instead of sending the study highlights

so that the City can take appropriate action if necessary, MMPI elected to publicly trash Public

Auditorium in the media even after the building was no longer a part of the plan. MMPI’S

actions beg the question: Do they still want to develop in Cleveland?

 

- 30 -

Is this really a press release from the mayor's office?  It seems rather unprofessional and smacks of game playing.

Yeah, its an odd press release.

If PA is no longer in play and they had 32M allocated to it, how is the 113 price a deal breaker? I seems to me they have enough money to make a deal IF they wanted to.

If PA is no longer in play and they had 32M allocated to it, how is the 113 price a deal breaker? I seems to me they have enough money to make a deal IF they wanted to.

 

Same question I asked???

If PA is no longer in play and they had 32M allocated to it, how is the 113 price a deal breaker? I seems to me they have enough money to make a deal IF they wanted to.

 

 

 

.

 

Same question I asked???

 

Sorry! It was such a damn good question, I could not get it out of my head

There is no way that's a real press release

There is no way that's a real press release

 

I've seen worse

it's for real: http://portal.cleveland-oh.gov/CityofCleveland/Home/PressRelease/prdetail?id=5783

OK, who goes around posting phony press releases from a mayor? C'mon, people.

I dread opening this thread these days...

 

It really seems that the MMPI is spooked by the pending change in County Government, as pointed out numerous times above in this thread ,why else if you aren't going to put money into Public hall would you not take the difference and just "pay the man" for the St. Clair properties and get this thing underway?

Mayor Frank Jackson, watchdog group assail MMPI after change in medical mart plans

By Laura Johnston, The Plain Dealer

November 19, 2009, 4:00AM

 

CLEVELAND, Ohio -- The $425 million Cleveland medical mart project came under attack from two fronts Wednesday -- one from Mayor Frank Jackson and the other from a government watchdog group that is demanding transparency.

 

Jackson interrupted a trade mission to Bulgaria to criticize developer MMPI for publicly disparaging the city-owned Public Auditorium, which he said the company "beat down."

 

"I question their motive," Jackson said in a telephone interview with The Plain Dealer. "I'm asking do they really want to be here. Because their behavior to me is completely irrational."

 

READ MORE AT:

http://blog.cleveland.com/metro/2009/11/mayor_frank_jackson_watchdog_g.html

Cleveland’s medical mart draws ’strong interest’ from 20 companies, but no deals imminent

November 17, 2009 by Brandon Glenn 

 

CLEVELAND, Ohio — Though 20 companies have expressed “strong interest” in leasing showroom space in Cleveland’s medical mart project, don’t expect any signed agreements soon.

 

“No one will sign contracts until we can firmly deliver a[n] [opening] date,” said Mark Falanga, senior vice president with Merchandise Mart Properties Inc. (MMPI), the Chicago-based company that is to develop and own the medical mart.

 

http://www.medcitynews.com/index.php/2009/11/clevelands-medical-mart-draws-strong-interest-from-20-companies-but-no-deals-immiment/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+MedcityNews+%28MedCity+News%29

 

If Mayor Prosperity had actual knowledge of this press release it is further evidence that he is totally out of his league.  I have also been talking to some of my contractor (big projects) acquaintances.  They can not imagine any HVAC/electrical rehab that would cost anything like $60 million.  MMPI is playing hardball and we have no one with either the intelect (Mayor prosperity) or interest (lame duck commissioners) to stand in the batter's box. 

If Mayor Prosperity had actual knowledge of this press release it is further evidence that he is totally out of his league.  I have also been talking to some of my contractor (big projects) acquaintances.  They can not imagine any HVAC/electrical rehab that would cost anything like $60 million.  MMPI is playing hardball and we have no one with either the intelect (Mayor prosperity) or interest (lame duck commissioners) to stand in the batter's box. 

 

Why must you disrespect the Mayor?  Seriously.  You can disagree with his politics, as that is your right, but at least repect the man and his title.

I would like this thread to remain on topic. I think we understand by now that you don't like Mayor Jackson, tedolph. So there's no need to mention it in virtually every message you post. If you wish to continue to focus your discussions on Mayor Jackson, there is a thread for that here at UO.

actually, I think the Mayor was spot-on. 

I am now worried that MMPI might be using Cleveland Politics to its advantage to weasel out of the deal, giving Cleveland leaders a sanctimonious pearch in which to kill the deal.

 

Hope I am wrong.

I am now worried that MMPI might be using Cleveland Politics to its advantage to weasel out of the deal, giving Cleveland leaders a sanctimonious pearch in which to kill the deal.

 

Hope I am wrong.

 

I don't think that thet they are trying to get out of the deal but rather recognizing the fact  that you can't really get all y0u want for $425MM. 

^And it was MMPI who was to cover any cost overruns, right?

^That's one conspiracy theory although I doubt it.  There are some serious issues with this project... but what's new.  I imagine any half-billion dollar development project involving nearly century old properties is going to hit a few significant snags along the way. 

 

More likely IMO (but still "not likely" if that makes sense) is that MMPI is trying to give the impression that this whole project is on the way down the tubes in hopes that the St. Clair/Ontario property owners flinch on their asking price.  Fact is, those properties are worth nowhere near $17 mill (what is being offered) if nothing gets built on the adjacent land.

^That's one conspiracy theory although I doubt it.  There are some serious issues with this project... but what's new.  I imagine any half-billion dollar development project involving nearly century old properties is going to hit a few significant snags along the way. 

 

More likely IMO (but still "not likely" if that makes sense) is that MMPI is trying to give the impression that this whole project is on the way down the tubes in hopes that the St. Clair/Ontario property owners flinch on their asking price.  Fact is, those properties are worth nowhere near $17 mill (what is being offered) if nothing gets built on the adjacent land.

 

agreed

^That's one conspiracy theory although I doubt it. There are some serious issues with this project... but what's new. I imagine any half-billion dollar development project involving nearly century old properties is going to hit a few significant snags along the way.

 

More likely IMO (but still "not likely" if that makes sense) is that MMPI is trying to give the impression that this whole project is on the way down the tubes in hopes that the St. Clair/Ontario property owners flinch on their asking price. Fact is, those properties are worth nowhere near $17 mill (what is being offered) if nothing gets built on the adjacent land.

 

This seems much more likely, and at this point they have nothing to lose as this is a county deal. 

yea cuz they could probably use some good pr 'bout right now.

 

 

Public Relations Manager - Cleveland 

 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Description  Position Summary

We are currently seeking a dynamic and energetic Public Relations Manager. This individual is responsible for coordinating and generating media attention through national, regional and local Cleveland-area press, national consumer magazines / newspapers, and trade publications for the Cleveland Medical Mart.

 

Responsibilities include:

 

continued at >>> https://www.appone.com/MainInfoReq.asp?R_ID=450394&B_ID=5&fid=1&Adid=&ssbgcolor=&SearchScreenID=224

 

 

I hate to bring this up.....but....Will the old convention center foundation under the mall hold the proposed new medial mart multistory structure??? I believe the study that was done said it could support the raised roof etc. but it didn't mention a large building.

From the looks of the mall C building drawing. The new building would actually rest on a new foundation where the loading docks and viewing pation are now. It doesn't appear that it would be on the "bathtub" of the exhibit hall...

I admit, I have been so tired of this soap opera-like drama that I gave it a break a long time ago and am not too caught up in its latest....but I did see the photo in the paper the other day about the 'new plan' for lack of a better way to put it..and am I not mistaken that this would basically block the whole viewing area...the 'end of the rainbow' of the mall so to speak? Not sure I like this configuration. It looked bulky and obtrusive. But then again, it was a quick glance.

I admit, I have been so tired of this soap opera-like drama that I gave it a break a long time ago and am not too caught up in its latest....but I did see the photo in the paper the other day about the 'new plan' for lack of a better way to put it..and am I not mistaken that this would basically block the whole viewing area...the 'end of the rainbow' of the mall so to speak? Not sure I like this configuration. It looked bulky and obtrusive. But then again, it was a quick glance.

I never saw that photo. Is there a way I can find it? I tried searching for it.

^ I glanced at it on a hard copy of the PD, I believe it was.

CLICK TO SEE IMAGE:

http://media.cleveland.com/metro/photo/mart-graphicjpg-9eb422c9ca0c5ce7.jpg

That's the photo... I know that is only a diagram, but it looks like a giant shoebox blocking the nice overlook. Of all places... Does this have to be there?

That's the photo... I know that is only a diagram, but it looks like a giant shoebox blocking the nice overlook. Of all places... Does this have to be there?

Hopefully that's just a very rough draft and it will look a hell of a lot nicer than that when (..if) it's completed. But I agree, I really don't like the location. Maybe there's still hope for the St. Claire site... but I'm probably being unrealistic. Wherever it's built, it better be a world-class facility.