Considering that the footprint of downtown is expanding, I would hope that RTA is looking at extending the trolley service down into the Flats once some office tenants move in. Seems like it would be the logical thing to do.

I mean that the office tower and Eaton will be built first. Any restaurants and stores will come later if at all. There won't be any of that until there are enough people down there to make them successful. This could take years. Yes, there are restaurants on West 9th. Those are rather pricey and not an option for lunch everyday. Most accountants don't make as much as some people think.

 

The "out in the cold" remark refers to the cold Lake Erie winds blowing directy up the Front Street hill.

I mean that the office tower and Eaton will be built first. Any restaurants and stores will come later if at all. There won't be any of that until there are enough people down there to make them successful. This could take years. Yes, there are restaurants on West 9th. Those are rather pricey and not an option for lunch everyday. Most accountants don't make as much as some people think.

 

Jimbo, there are many tenants that are already signed for the retail and restaurant spots.

I am sure that bus routes will be alterred to go down into the flats without a transfer once there is a lot of people working down there.  Instead of the 51X going straight to Public Sq and east to CSU, it will probably go down Huron to the flats and then up SUperior to PS.  I am sure you will see changes like that made.

 

If you are concerned however, go to the transportation thread under " Greater Cleveland RTA says Hello" and direct this question to JMasek.  He is ussually very helpful.

My bus doesn't go near  9th and Euclid. The nearest stop is at W 9th and Superior. to catch the trolley I'd have to go to the square and ride it back to the west. I've checked out the RTA options. Hopefully they will expand to the flats but they can't do that until there are enough riders to justify it.

Wolstein is going to need signed leases before he starts building.  I am not worried about getting retail and amentities down there if Eaton, E&Y, Tucker, etc, are on the hook already.  This isn't a spec project.   

3231 That may be true. After more than 30 years of working downtown I've adopted an "i'll believe it when I see it" attitiude. I hate to be that way. I'm acually a very positive guy. I just seen so many "done deals" fall through of close soon after opening. Things of all sizes.

 

I really think filling those gaps in the warehouse district is the way to go. That site on the square where Jacobs was going to build and the super block at W 3rd and Superior would be priorities.

 

Talk at E & Y is they wanted something noticeable. So they go off to some far off hill next to a bridge. It doesn't add up. The square would be a noticable location. Plus a more expensive one I bet.

My bus doesn't go near  9th and Euclid. The nearest stop is at W 9th and Superior. to catch the trolley I'd have to go to the square and ride it back to the west. I've checked out the RTA options. Hopefully they will expand to the flats but they can't do that until there are enough riders to justify it.

 

Eassssy jimbo.  You said your bus dropped you off on Superior 2 blocks from work (Huntington Building).  I assumed that meant E.9th and Superior since you didn't specify... which would be 2 blocks from east 9th and Euclid (Huntington Building) where you can catch the E-Line trolley about a block from the new office.  Sorry for assuming.  Also as has been noted a gagillion times before since you first brought it up, there are 12 buildings in this project.  10 of which are being constructed concurrently. It's why this project has taken years to get to this point.  If you want to convince yourself that this is the worst idea ever, then by all means go ahead. But there are many people on this board who have a lot more information on the subject than you, that know otherwise.  Wolstein wouldn't be getting construction loans to just put up an office in "mongolia".  It is a large mixed use project, it all goes up together or it doesn't work.

I mean that the office tower and Eaton will be built first. Any restaurants and stores will come later if at all. There won't be any of that until there are enough people down there to make them successful. This could take years. Yes, there are restaurants on West 9th. Those are rather pricey and not an option for lunch everyday. Most accountants don't make as much as some people think.

 

The "out in the cold" remark refers to the cold Lake Erie winds blowing directy up the Front Street hill.

 

Again, we have someone giving all the reason why this project is bad or an issue for them.  How about realizing that your travel pattern will change and you have to deal with it.  Period?  That wasn't said to be mean, but reality.

 

How do you know that FEB and RTA haven't started to coordinate transportation options? transportation options and frequencies today, might and will hopefully change with new residents and business opening.

 

Also, how can you "guess" as to when things will open?  Are you privy to a timeline?

 

Also, just because something doesn't make sense to you, it might make sense to the overall greater good of a product, that product being Cleveland.

Sorry if you took that wrong. I was just trying to clarify without getting too long. My bus comes in from Ontario Street then west on Huron to Superior then east.

 

I just doubt that this thing will be built on the time table they have. Something always causes delays or scaling back the project. I hope I'm wrong.

And now for the future we can predict....

________________

 

MAYOR JACKSON JOINS ERNST & YOUNG TO ANNOUNCE PLAN TO MOVE TO FLATS,

INVEST IN CLEVELAND

Flats Developers to Unveil Never-Before-Seen Project Renderings

 

 

CLEVELAND - Mayor Frank G. Jackson, Ernst & Young's New York-based

Chairman and CEO James S. Turley, developer Scott Wolstein and others

will formally announce their decision to invest in Cleveland and keep

1200 employees downtown.  This new move will help Ernst & Young anchor

downtown's first new office building in nearly two decades.

 

Ernst & Young, a global leader in assurance, tax, transaction and

advisory services, was founded by A.C. Ernst, a visionary and

entrepreneur, more than a century ago. The organization's

representatives will reveal plans to move additional operations to the

firm's new downtown location and to create business expansion

opportunities in Cleveland.

 

Additionally, Scott Wolstein and the Flats East Bank development team

will exhibit never before seen project renderings.

 

Who: Mayor Frank G. Jackson, City of Cleveland

James S. Turley, Chairman and CEO, Ernst & Young

Scott Wolstein, Principal, The Wolstein Group

Steve Howe, Americas Area Managing Partner, Ernst &

Young

Mike Ventling, Vice Chairman and North Central Sub-Area Managing

Partner, Ernst & Young

Don Misheff, Northeast Ohio Managing Partner, Ernst &

Young

 

When: Thursday May 8, 2008 at 10 a.m.

Where: Mayor's Red Room, Cleveland City Hall, 601 Lakeside Avenue

Participants will be available for interviews and photographs following

formal remarks.

Work to clear way for Flats East Bank picks up

 

By STAN BULLARD

 

11:45 am, May 7, 2008

 

 

 

Part of the old Flats begins disappearing today as wrecking crews start razing the last buildings on Old River Road north of Main Avenue in Cleveland.

 

Empty buildings that once housed Flats stalwarts from Old River Road’s stint from the 1980s through the late 1990s as a hot nightspot will fall to make way for the $500 million Flats East Bank Neighborhood. Among the structures coming down are the former homes of Tangerine Farley’s, which more recently was House of Brews, and Circus Circus, more recently The Hustler Club.

 

Developers Wolstein Group of Beachwood and Fairmount Properties of Cleveland plan to develop two office buildings, housing and retail space on the site on the east bank of the Cuyahoga River.

 

 

You going, KJP? Huh huh huh huh?? :)

Work to clear way for Flats East Bank picks up

 

By STAN BULLARD

 

11:45 am, May 7, 2008

 

 

 

Part of the old Flats begins disappearing today as wrecking crews start razing the last buildings on Old River Road north of Main Avenue in Cleveland.

 

Empty buildings that once housed Flats stalwarts from Old River Road’s stint from the 1980s through the late 1990s as a hot nightspot will fall to make way for the $500 million Flats East Bank Neighborhood. Among the structures coming down are the former homes of Tangerine Farley’s, which more recently was House of Brews, and Circus Circus, more recently The Hustler Club.

 

Developers Wolstein Group of Beachwood and Fairmount Properties of Cleveland plan to develop two office buildings, housing and retail space on the site on the east bank of the Cuyahoga River.

 

 

 

I actually figured that today was the day since when I went for a stroll last evening after work, there were some crews spraying down the insides of the buildings with water.

You going, KJP? Huh huh huh huh?? :)

 

Is a bullfrog waterproof?

I can not wait to see the new renderings tommorrow.  This thing is really starting to take shape.

You going, KJP? Huh huh huh huh?? :)

 

Is a bullfrog waterproof?

 

Whatever you do, TAKE PICTURES. :-D

You going, KJP? Huh huh huh huh?? :)

 

Is a bullfrog waterproof?

 

Whatever you do, TAKE PICTURES. :-D

 

They're giving me "pictures" (aka: renderings).

You going, KJP? Huh huh huh huh?? :)

 

Is a bullfrog waterproof?

 

Whatever you do, TAKE PICTURES. :-D

 

They're giving me "pictures" (aka: renderings).

 

Woo!

take pictures anyway and scan those rendering ASAP, mr. man

Thank you Jimbo. My point exactly.  If you ride RTA, then you are either going to have a long walk or take the lakefront.

 

By the way, where are you going to bank? Drug store?  Post office?

 

Some of my points.  But, the main point is that this development is going to kill one or more of the other developments that will redevelope the CBD.  There is going to be more people in the Public Square area during the day than in the flats.

 

I was OK with the FEB being a mostly residential area as I originally understood it would be.  But, to move 3 large companies out of the CBD is upsetting to me.

But, the main point is that this development is going to kill one or more of the other developments that will redevelope the CBD.  There is going to be more people in the Public Square area during the day than in the flats.

 

I was OK with the FEB being a mostly residential area as I originally understood it would be.  But, to move 3 large companies out of the CBD is upsetting to me.

 

Im not exactly happy about that either.  I would have much rather  seen Eaton and E and Y stay in the core and support the other new developments, which are more reliant on them.  I dont believe FEB was ever meant as much more than a working neighborhood, with a small amount of office space.  I also dont really like what has happened to the scale of the project.  Although I think there was room for it to grow, it seemed to me that it lost the intimate feel that it initially seemed like it was going to have.  I saw this coming though... 

Thank you Jimbo. My point exactly.  If you ride RTA, then you are either going to have a long walk or take the lakefront.

 

So, let me understand this, you think that when the project is complete.  Transportation options will stay the same?  Has it ever occurred to anyone that with this new development people have to get used to or learn new transportation habits and realize that there commute will be different?  Or is it that people are just to set in their ways and lazy that they refuse to change? 

 

By the way, where are you going to bank? Drug store?  Post office?

What's wrong with where you bank now?  How many drug stores are downtown now?  I'm sure one will go in the FEB project.  there are four mini post office downtown now, so it's not like one is on every corner. Adding one to the FEB, would be good for downtown as a whole but more beneficial to the residents.

 

Since no retailers have been announced, lets reserve judgement as a bank, grocery store, post office could be tenants in the new development.  and I'll repeat, we'll all have to learn new habits with all the development going on downtown.

 

 

Some of my points.  But, the main point is that this development is going to kill one or more of the other developments that will redevelope the CBD.  There is going to be more people in the Public Square area during the day than in the flats.

Are you an economist, an analysts or a clairvoyant?  How can you make a blanket statement like that?

 

I was OK with the FEB being a mostly residential area as I originally understood it would be.  But, to move 3 large companies out of the CBD is upsetting to me.

 

Why is that no looks at this as the CBD EXPANDING?  Why can people ONLY point out the negatives?

 

As indicated in the Halle's informatoin I posted earlier, things shift.  and It's a new eara in Cleveland and people need to embrace change instead of living in the past or fighting it.

^ Remember when the Rose building (Medical Mutual) opened and people called the building Rose's Folly, because it was ssssoooo far away from anything.  An unimaginable 9 blocks from public square. You know how far this is from public square? 9 blocks.  And if you have a monthly transit pass you can hop on the WFL and be there in 2 minutes.  I am getting really tired of people referring  to the FEB as if it were Sandusky.  Clevelanders as a whole tend to REALLY hate change.

 

  It is embarrassing to have a swath of undeveloped surface parking lots in the middle of your city as we do in the warehouse district...  It is unimaginably tragic to have an undeveloped waterfront as we do.  Name me one other city in the united states that has the waterfront access we have here barren the way we do.  Wake up and smack yourselves across the face, this is one of the best things to happen to this city in 50 years.

Mayor McCleveland, I get the sense that some of these newer negative posters are Cleveland.com defectors or folks that have only seen one way of life and don't yet understand the positive changes taking place before our eyes.

^ Remember when the Rose building (Medical Mutual) opened and people called the building Rose's Folly, because it was ssssoooo far away from anything.  An unimaginable 9 blocks from public square. You know how far this is from public square? 9 blocks.  And if you have a monthly transit pass you can hop on the WFL and be there in 2 minutes.  I am getting really tired of people referring  to the FEB as if it were Sandusky.  Clevelanders as a whole tend to REALLY hate change.

 

I think the real issue is that Clevelanders are fat and lazy, and unfortunately getting the FEB involves a hill.

I think the real issue is that Clevelanders are fat and lazy, and unfortunately getting the FEB involves a hill.

 

Not if you take the train!

^ Remember when the Rose building (Medical Mutual) opened and people called the building Rose's Folly, because it was ssssoooo far away from anything.  An unimaginable 9 blocks from public square. You know how far this is from public square? 9 blocks. 

 

It is embarrassing to have a swath of undeveloped surface parking lots in the middle of your city as we do in the warehouse district...  It is unimaginably tragic to have an undeveloped waterfront as we do.  Name me one other city in the united states that has the waterfront access we have here barren the way we do.  Wake up and smack yourselves across the face, this is one of the best things to happen to this city in 50 years.

 

When/after the Rose building was built Cleveland went through a huge growth spurt.  Not whats happening now.

 

"It is embarrassing to have a swath of undeveloped surface parking lots in the middle of your city as we do in the warehouse district..."

 

I think that is the reason for the disappointment by some that these big tenants are going to the flats, when we have so much "unfinished" in such obvious areas.  Otherwise I dont think anybody is saying they think the development is bad, and its fine if they want to take a wait and see attitude, they are entitled, and probably have had their hopes dashed plenty of times. 

 

If the business downtown was really expanding as it was it Clevelands heyday I could understand the CBD expanding argument, but not here, especially with all the holes we currently have. 

   

Have you ever thought that Maybe they have to move to the Flats because the Stark and/or Jacobs projects are not available, don't fit their needs or its construction does not coincide with when they need to move??

 

Anyone that says the FEB project, which none of us have seen in its intirety, is further away from TC/Public Square is just using that as an excuse to complain about NOTHING!

 

In addition, with larger corporations switching this give small/medium sized company's from other areas to move to a more centrally located building with a Euclid address.

 

I have faith the WHD lots will be taken care of even if they decide to make it all residential and hotels, which is what they might have to do.

MTS, I agree with most of your points (just this time at least), except for "think of the CBD as expanding".  Really, it isn't.  It is shifting into this development.  If say Parker Hannifin, Energizer, Stouffers or Progressive etc were moving down there, than I would agree with you.  But instead, about 3000 employess (give or take I do not have exact numbers) are moving from the Euclid Corridor to the Flats.  I like the project for the construction and service jobs it will create, but not so much for the fact that it is sucking people out of the "financial district/Euclid Corridor".  We now know that it is getting built, so lets just make it look nice, inviting, fun and energetic. 

MTS, I agree with most of your points (just this time at least), except for "think of the CBD as expanding".  Really, it isn't.  It is shifting into this development.  If say Parker Hannifin, Energizer, Stouffers or Progressive etc were moving down there, than I would agree with you.  But instead, about 3000 employess (give or take I do not have exact numbers) are moving from the Euclid Corridor to the Flats.  I like the project for the construction and service jobs it will create, but not so much for the fact that it is sucking people out of the "financial district/Euclid Corridor".  We now know that it is getting built, so lets just make it look nice, inviting, fun and energetic.  

 

Now gotribe, answer me this, how do you know that there isn't a plan "b" for the reuse of the buildings affected?

[quote author=willyboy link=topic=1823.msg283249#msg283249 date=1210212879

When/after the Rose building was built Cleveland went through a huge growth spurt.  Not whats happening now.

 

"It is embarrassing to have a swath of undeveloped surface parking lots in the middle of your city as we do in the warehouse district..."

 

I think that is the reason for the disappointment by some that these big tenants are going to the flats, when we have so much "unfinished" in such obvious areas.  Otherwise I dont think anybody is saying they think the development is bad, and its fine if they want to take a wait and see attitude, they are entitled, and probably have had their hopes dashed plenty of times. 

 

If the business downtown was really expanding as it was it Clevelands heyday I could understand the CBD expanding argument, but not here, especially with all the holes we currently have.     

 

  If you are going to quote me please don't act like you're from the PD and editorialize me or take half quotes.  Surface parking lots eat at the very fabric of my soul, but they are not nearly the injustice of an abandoned waterfronts.  At least surface lots fill some sort of need, we've got a ghost town on the water, i don't know what is more "obvious" than that... try explaining that to an out of towner.  And everyone needs to really stop pretending that they are building this development on edgewater park.  This is downtown propper.  Workers in the new office building will be 1.5 blocks from Constantino's, which also happens to be the nearest trolley stop, a bevy of restaurants and ohhhh.... the heart of the warehouse district.  This is downtown propper not ashtabula.

 

  Everyone knows this is a reshuffling of the deck, but as far as not growing / expanding I disagree.  Downtown Cleveland is growing at a staggering pace.  Most people in this town in my opinion have very little, if any vision.  Some of us, by nature of what we do are chalk full of vision so let me try to paint a picture.  The average person associates growth and progress by construction cranes and new buildings.  That simply isn't the case.  We have taken 20+ years to get to this point.  Why?  Because our downtown was virtually abandoned.  It was full of dilapidated crumbling building stock... In just the last 5-10 years did you realize that almost all of those have been redeveloped.  And that the ones that haven't been are for the most part deep in the design phase with their plans?  Lower Euclid Avenue was appalling, now East 4th is spilling out into Euclid brimming with life.  7 years ago, the warehouse district used to look like something out of a post apocalyptic war movie outside of a couple bars on W.6th... now I believe there are a whopping 2 buildings left undeveloped there.  And it's not all residences either, do you think those are manaquins in the floors of the rehabbed buildings working?  Take for example playhouse square.  That place was nothing but some refurbished theatres not long ago now buildings are being rehabbed and it is becoming a hub of technology companies that are moving in left and right.  Cleveland State used to be cold and unconnected and is now reaching out to become a part of downtown cleveland.  Businesses ARE moving in downtown, everyday. It's just not the "big ones".  But as MTS points out clearing out half of one building does not spell doom for the current CBD, it just presents opportunity for more of these small growing companies to come downtown.

 

  I think we need to make it clear that there is no silver bullet for Cleveland, the FEB will not save or transform downtown, nor will the Euclid Corridor project,  nor the ameritrust project, nor a rehab the scale of 668, nor the avenue district, nor the district of design, nor college town, nor pesht... HOWEVER, all of these things TOGETHER will transform downtown.  And like it or not / believe it or not, they are happening.

 

  As far as FEB is considered please:

A. People need to stop complaining about lack of amenities that might possibly exist.  Until a list of tennants is released complaining about what's not there is nothing but baseless complaining.

B. This project HAS to have the large office community to reach it's full potential.  That's what mixed use IS.  If it's "primarily" residential, then you will see tumbleweeds blowing around during the day, and it'll be pretty diffcult for the retail component.  If its just office it acts like the current CBD where the sidewalks role up at 5pm.  A large office communtiy fused with residential and transportation creates a dense vibrant neighborhood. Basic urban principles people!

C.  Did I mention this is still in downtown proper!  Downtown is growing, not expanding.  We're simply rebuilding an extremely important piece of the puzzle.  Baseless expansion would be tapping into the port lakefront land or south of I-90.  We're not there yet. That's why I'm so glad the port move is going to take 15-20 years, it will give us time to continue our momentum.

 

There I'm done.  People have to get over CHANGE.  If you want to play Debbie Downer do it someplace else.  There are many challenges and problems with our city... this isn't one of them.

YOU BETTA PREACH MAYOR REVEREND MCCLEVELAND  :clap:  :clap:

 

I still think that downtown is growing, as those new building will bring jobs and the smaller acnillary/related businesses that in the past couldn't afford to move into downtown most likely will relocated to be closer to a growing E & Y or whatever company.

 

Also, the larger tenants that are moving might be acting as middle men to fill their current spaces.  This often happens when companys move from a signature building where they occupy a large amount of space.

  As far as FEB is considered please:

A. People need to stop complaining about lack of amenities that might possibly exist.  Until a list of tennants is released complaining about what's not there is nothing but baseless complaining.

B. This project HAS to have the large office community to reach it's full potential.  That's what mixed use IS.  If it's "primarily" residential, then you will see tumbleweeds blowing around during the day, and it'll be pretty diffcult for the retail component.  If its just office it acts like the current CBD where the sidewalks role up at 5pm.  A large office communtiy fused with residential and transportation creates a dense vibrant neighborhood. Basic urban principles people!C.  Did I mention this is still in downtown proper!  Downtown is growing, not expanding.  We're simply rebuilding an extremely important piece of the puzzle.  Baseless expansion would be tapping into the port lakefront land or south of I-90.  We're not there yet. That's why I'm so glad the port move is going to take 15-20 years, it will give us time to continue our momentum.

 

Exactly, plus if it didn't include as much office as it does, it would not get done in this credit environment.  The office is what makes this project viable and able to move forward right now. 

 

Now gotribe, answer me this, how do you know that there isn't a plan "b" for the reuse of the buildings affected?

 

I really do not know, as does anyone else who only reads the newspapers and this site.  Therefore, based on what I know, large companies are moving down to the Flats form the "financial district".  That is clearly not a reason for me however to not support this project.  I am a huge fan of it for reasons stated earlier.  Also, my career, along with many others with a project of this magnitude, is positively effected from this development.  I really really wich, and it would just be icing on the cake, if a huge suburban or company would move down there.  And, when the project gains more visual appeal and becomes more "citylike" if you will, we may see some of that.  It may be a magnet project for the "New Cleveland".  I compare it slightly to the Erieview plan.  Blighted neighborhood given energy through new office construction. 

I wonder what it would take to lure Progressive downtown?

I wonder what it would take to lure Progressive downtown?

 

I think that statement has been used on every thread in this forum, so lets stay away from it for fear of going off topic.  But I am with your thinking, and I don't think there is a sum of money or incentives that could do it.  As John Candy once stated, "You have a better chance of playing pick-up-sticks with you butt cheeks than getting Progressive to move downtown...not quite that but sort of.

I'd love to see Hyland Software move downtown. It is a young and very successful company that is adding employees at a rapid pace.

I am really suprised that Wolstein continues to expand the DDRC offices on Science Parkway in Beachwood than bringing some of those people to his development.

  I think we need to make it clear that there is no silver bullet for Cleveland, the FEB will not save or transform downtown, nor will the Euclid Corridor project,  nor the ameritrust project, nor a rehab the scale of 668, nor the avenue district, nor the district of design, nor college town, nor pesht... HOWEVER, all of these things TOGETHER will transform downtown.  And like it or not / believe it or not, they are happening.

 

 

 

Sorry I didnt quote your whole post again (why would I quote everything when it doesnt relate to what I am posting?)

Well if they are all going to happen, then I guess I have no issues!  That is change I can handle!  (Silly me I must have thought that there was a limitied amount of tenants to go around)

 

Also, as an Urban Planner I was most concerned about connecting Clevelands "Islands of activity" that have plagued downtown as long as I can remember, which allows the dead zones to give bad/wrong impressions of downtown.  Again I didnt realize that everything could realistically happen.       

Where is Urbanohio.com's regional office located? 

Where is Urbanohio.com's regional office located? 

 

I believe it is in the Penton Media building.

It's going to jump out of that building if you nitwits keep going off topic!

 

I'd love to see Hyland Software move downtown. It is a young and very successful company that is adding employees at a rapid pace.

 

EDIT:  The key is to get the next Hyland Software downtown before they turn into Hyland software so to speak.

 

While I doubt that they'll get as big as Hyland, SchoolOne (which has a new name) has grown incredibly over the past two years. I'm glad that we got them.

 

Back on topic.....KJP should be at City Hall now. Hopefully the PD will post the new images immediately after the press conference at 10am.

Just because I don't like this particular change does not mean I don't like change in general. If that change is positive and well thought out it's a good thing. If your company announced they were building a new office on the 5 mile crib because it would offer lake views for all offices would you like that. Of course you would need to take a boat to work but what the heck. I know that idea is far out but, hey it's change why fight it. Just making a point.

 

It's nice to have the bank nearby and the drug store across the street and a choice of restaurants nearby.  To be moving away from that isn't a plus to those of us involved. Aside from the longer commute, now we will have to do certain chores after work instead of during lunch hour. I know many of you are saying "quit complaining". That's OK, it doesn't effect you. I probably wouldn't be complaining if it didn't effect me to be honest.

 

There are many here that give the immpression that this project will rise up on day 100% complete with everything anybody ever needs just like the Great Pumpkin rises from the pumpkin patch. Well, Linus is still waiting. Just like I'm still waiting for the second Cleveland Trust Tower(1971), The office tower on the site of the Hippodrome(1980), the 668 Euclid project (90's), Anthony Ashers World Trade Center (1973 or so), Sherwin-Williams Tower (1980 or so) the hotel just north of Jacob Field (late 90's) and all of the projects I mentioned in earlier posts. Yes, I sound negative, but let's look at the track record, most projects don't get built. I got excited about every one of those.

 

I just think that there are better options that would benefit E & Y, it's employees and downtown as a whole.  I've watched downtown decline over the last 3 decades. Up until the mid 90's Euclid, Ninth and other streets were full of people. Now there is just a faction of that. The small businesses have dried up. In truth there are fewer choices for the downtown worker than ever. Taking three large companies from the area will only make things worse.

 

To say I don't like change is weak. To say I'm lazy because they're is a hill on my walk to work is too. E & Y wants something to show off to clients and younger employees, that's a big part of this move. The Huntington is old and young people want new. Forget that the Huntington is a classic building filled with history. So E & Y has decided to build on a hill where the artic winds will blast away employees and clients alike. I have nothing against a lakefront view however, the view form that location is pretty much nothing but a pile of gravel.

 

 

To say I don't like change is weak. To say I'm lazy because they're is a hill on my walk to work is too. E & Y wants something to show off to clients and younger employees, that's a big part of this move. The Huntington is old and young people want new. Forget that the Huntington is a classic building filled with history. So E & Y has decided to build on a hill where the artic winds will blast away employees and clients alike. I have nothing against a lakefront view however, the view form that location is pretty much nothing but a pile of gravel.

 

Jimbo,

 

Nearly everything I say is sarcastic.

 

except that

 

and that

 

and that.

Just because I don't like this particular change does not mean I don't like change in general. If that change is positive and well thought out it's a good thing. If your company announced they were building a new office on the 5 mile crib because it would offer lake views for all offices would you like that. Of course you would need to take a boat to work but what the heck. I know that idea is far out but, hey it's change why fight it. Just making a point.

 

It's nice to have the bank nearby and the drug store across the street and a choice of restaurants nearby.  To be moving away from that isn't a plus to those of us involved. Aside from the longer commute, now we will have to do certain chores after work instead of during lunch hour. I know many of you are saying "quit complaining". That's OK, it doesn't effect you. I probably wouldn't be complaining if it didn't effect me to be honest.

 

There are many here that give the immpression that this project will rise up on day 100% complete with everything anybody ever needs just like the Great Pumpkin rises from the pumpkin patch. Well, Linus is still waiting. Just like I'm still waiting for the second Cleveland Trust Tower(1971), The office tower on the site of the Hippodrome(1980), the 668 Euclid project (90's), Anthony Ashers World Trade Center (1973 or so), Sherwin-Williams Tower (1980 or so) the hotel just north of Jacob Field (late 90's) and all of the projects I mentioned in earlier posts. Yes, I sound negative, but let's look at the track record, most projects don't get built. I got excited about every one of those.

 

I just think that there are better options that would benefit E & Y, it's employees and downtown as a whole.  I've watched downtown decline over the last 3 decades. Up until the mid 90's Euclid, Ninth and other streets were full of people. Now there is just a faction of that. The small businesses have dried up. In truth there are fewer choices for the downtown worker than ever. Taking three large companies from the area will only make things worse.

 

To say I don't like change is weak. To say I'm lazy because they're is a hill on my walk to work is too. E & Y wants something to show off to clients and younger employees, that's a big part of this move. The Huntington is old and young people want new. Forget that the Huntington is a classic building filled with history. So E & Y has decided to build on a hill where the artic winds will blast away employees and clients alike. I have nothing against a lakefront view however, the view form that location is pretty much nothing but a pile of gravel.

 

 

 

Wow.  Sorry, but again you just don't get it.

1.  Please tell me how on earth you know that the new FEB won't have a bank, a drug store, or choice or restaraunts.  As a matter of fact you don't know any of this.  But you assume and complain about it.

2.  You really have zero understanding of what this project is.  It is not build the office and maybe we'll do a phase later on with the other stuff.  They would NEVER get financing for that.  It is an "insta-neighborhood" so to speak.

3.  Don't confuse rumors of would be projects with something happening.  Those of us in the field can sniff out the bs and conjecture a mile away, this isn't it.

4.  Do you really think they could plop down an office not develop the rest of that area or the infastructure, and there wouldn't be a catclysmic fallout?  I mean a LAW FIRM is moving into this area.  Do you think they would say, "boy that stinks, they didn't deliver on 90% of what they promised... Oh well. We'll just look out at the pile of dirt where the 'neighborhood' was supposed to be and go about our day."  No, they'd sue the bejesus out of people and never move into the building.

 

You may be the biggest glass half empty person I've encountered here.  Perhaps it's because you had to deal so much with the decades of decline, and you are so slanted against positive momentum that you refuse to open your eyes look around and see what's happening... And if you like the restaurant selections around the huntington building so much then by all means, walk 1.5 blocks (less than what you would currently walk to east 4th) and get on the (Free) trolley, that will take you there in about 5 minutes.  Otherwise walk into the warehouse district (about 2 blocks) and realize that they have as many options if not more than the area you were in.  You've obviously been hiding in that building so long you have forgotten that there is actually a city outside of it.

 

jimbo, have you read anything we've typed??  :?

 

I'll make it easy, so please answer:

 

[*]How can you complain about retail, amenties, when nothing has been announced?

[*]How can complain about future transportation options by comparing them to whats there today, when nothing has been announced?

[*]How can you complain about future use of the Huntington building when nothing has been announced by the Master Lease tenant?

[*]How can you know what's best for E&Y when you don't sit on the Board nor are you a part of the Executive Mgmt. team?

 

From the development research i've done for the US on average, for every 12 buildings proposed, 1 is built.

 

 

 

McCleveland, I think I love you!

McCleveland, I think I love you!

 

Sorry MTS I am engaged to a woman. :lol: