Developers showed off new renderings of the project but did not display images of the office tower. Fishman said the building, being designed by NBBJ, will be "more modern than traditional" and "more glass than stone." Pending city approval, the Ernst & Young lighted logo will be on three sides of the building's facade.

 

That's funny. I recall seeing a rendering of the office building, unless I confused that with another building.

 

Channel 3 News flashed a bigger version of the second rendering you posted that included the "E & Y" office tower.

 

With regard to that tower, I don't understand the pessimism re location.  The above quote is correct that the location really is a merger between the WHD and the Flats.  It is up the hill, not down on the river and that makes a big difference for a firm such as Tucker Ellis in terms of walkability to the courthouse.  I just hope they do something to make transversing Lakeside into the WHD a little less hazardous.

I don't know about the neon, but I LOVE the raw exposed steel girders that the sign seems to be attached to.  Might be my favorite architectural element in the design.  It screams flats, industrial heritage, and bridges... and very nicely ties into the new neighborhood.

 

EDIT:  By the way is it just me or does the new E&Y building evoke some memories of the PP&G building in Pittsburgh?

Just checked with Wolstein's PR people: They do not yet have any graphics of the E&Y office building, except for massings on which they slapped E&Y's name/logo. They'll send me the massing, which isn't much more than a bland box.

 

The other renderings which have imvalid JPEG markers on them will be overnighted to me. Sorry, you're going to have to wait for the other images.

No one. And like I said, I don't necessarily have a complaint about packaging a neighborhood for out-of-towners. But .. I dunno. The way it was shown in the renderings wasn't to my liking.

 

Just being nitpicky.

 

You don't get it.  My comments aren't about what "out of towners" think.  this is for EVERYONE!  This is strickly about BUILDING A BRAND.  This way it won't die out or erode as the "original" Flats did. 

 

This BRAND is the FEB neighborhood.  Even on Shaker Square, we have signage that you're IN Shaker Square (I purposely left that out).

 

I do get it, MTS. We just have differing opinions. And that's okay.

i agree with JPOP, makes the place look way too artificial IMO.  how bout we flip the question around and ask you, MTS, if YOU can name one example in the  country where you DO see this

 

Hollywood

Really, the huge sign, if done correctly, might end up being the coolest thing in the whole development.  They used to have huge signs all over this city:  On top of the BF Keith Building announcing Playhouse Square, Society Bank on Public Square, National Trust at Lorain and W25th, Hotel Cleveland, etc.  It will probably be the only unique thing about FEB.  The rest of it could be located anywhere in the country from the looks of the renderings.

Really, the huge sign, if done correctly, might end up being the coolest thing in the whole development ... The rest of it could be located anywhere in the country from the looks of the renderings.

 

I think that's exactly the problem for me.

i agree with JPOP, makes the place look way too artificial IMO.  how bout we flip the question around and ask you, MTS, if YOU can name one example in the  country where you DO see this

 

Hollywood

 

that was too obvious which I why I left that off.

 

these whippersnappers are going to have to get up pretty early in the morning to get me!

 

 

 

You Yung'uns best remember

And no metal hangers!!!

*Ahem* - "no WIRE hangers". :-D

Do you have the hotel brand's name?

How many rooms?

What building will it be in?

 

I know some people in the CLE hotel scene...let me send a quick email and see if I can get this info. I have a pretty good idea what the brand probably is though...

EDIT:  By the way is it just me or does the new E&Y building evoke some memories of the PP&G building in Pittsburgh?

 

Did they show some other rendering? I'm not seeing PP&G here.

 

http://www.wkyc.com/news/news_article.aspx?storyid=89080

 

I know its just an initial rendering, but I liked Lighthouse Landing and how it was integrated better.  We'll see 

i too like the sign.  i asked one of the wolstein reps the likelihood of the sign staying and he was quite giddy about it, making a reference (like W28) to what used to be in playhouse square.  also of note, while i was there, the ernie young folks were busy convincing themselves that their new offices would be just as close to the cbd. 

 

as for the design, i like it okay, but would like (expect) to see more exposed steel elements and designs that references the bridges - something that tells you that you've landed in the flats. 

EDIT:  By the way is it just me or does the new E&Y building evoke some memories of the PP&G building in Pittsburgh?

 

Did they show some other rendering? I'm not seeing PP&G here.

 

http://www.wkyc.com/news/news_article.aspx?storyid=89080

 

 

i was just noting the glass facade and kind of "points"... but seeing it up close, doesn't really do it.

Do you have the hotel brand's name?

How many rooms?

What building will it be in?

 

 

Would someone please provide relief/comfort to MTS (and me) and cough up the hotel brand(s)

I'm really curious as to how E&Y's tower will interact with W.9th.

I actually like the facade of that building quite a bit.  Crystaline and jagged like The Fortress of Solitude, seriously I like it.

I know it's only a rendering but I don't like it

I think that it looks a little forced. I think that it can also make the area look as if it is not an organic part of the city--as if it were dropped down from space.  Well, that's kind of what it will be.

 

Yeah, it's a shame those classic warehouses (i.e. Heaven & Earth, John Harvard's or even Kindler's) couldn't have been retained, ... at least, their facades to give and old + new contrast.  As nice as I expect this area to be, you'd have hoped it would have been a little less plastic looking; but I'll wait to an actually architect’s rendering before I kill it...

 

Speaking of a nice old + new contrast, I sure hope Stark comes up w/ some concrete proposal May22nd, with dates.  I miss the old Flats, but I'm loving the high density concept and TOD nature of FEB.  I just wish and hope this type of development can finally get going to supplement what still is our largest and strongest downtown residential nabe: the WHD.  I also hope what Adam Fishman said becomes reality, that his new office tower will help link the 2 districts/neighborhoods becoming "the fulcrum of where the Warehouse District and the Flats come together."

 

Here's the last two images, as promised. No picture of the office building was sent to me....

 

Looking south on the new West 11th Street:

 

Looking across the Cuyahoga River from the Flats West Bank:

^Wow, this time the Flats will have some life during the daytime hours!

My least favorite part of the plan is the huge curve-shaped building that faces the water. I with they could break it up a bit.

^Part of me wonders if breaking that building up (thus creating more streets) would have opened up more retail than they thought they could fill...

^^ I feel the same way.  I'm not fond of that mega-block.  Imagine how difficult it would be to walk around it.

It's entirely possible that it will have some sort of interior corridor/lobby on the ground level which will allow pedestrians to pass through.

^Agreed with 3231. Break that building up a little!!!

 

"Downtown councilman Joe Cimperman says the Flats will party again, this time with accountants, new residents, and a new grocery store."

 

Wow, nothing says PARTY like accountants and new grocery store, lol. What a lame sounding statement.

 

But on a serious note, what is it about this plan that is going to lure people down here and make it a can't miss destination. A movie theater? Grocery store? Office buildings?

 

The truth is the draw of the FEB is the location itself. That's the main thing that's going to set this hood apart from anywhere else- it is all about the waterfront, and we are each entrusting Wolstein to enhance that experience.

 

 

 

Yes, it at least needs a big "arch" or something to that effect to break it up, and as a cut-through. 

But on a serious note, what is it about this plan that is going to lure people down here and make it a can't miss destination. A movie theater? Grocery store? Office buildings?

 

The truth is the draw of the FEB is the location itself. That's the main thing that's going to set this hood apart from anywhere else- it is all about the waterfront, and we are each entrusting Wolstein to enhance that experience.

 

I think what makes it a destination is simply that it's a really desnse and vibrant "neighborhood", and it's on the water.  We really don't have anything like that here.  I mean if you look at places like Soho and greenwich village, there's really nothing "destination" about them other than they are a really cool neighborhood to be in (some nice little shops, some decent restaurants, some areas to relax).  Add some water to that and they might be on to something.  When the retailer list comes out I am really hoping to see some things that add to that mix... a bakery, ice cream.  You know the crap you like to stop in and do when you are strolling around a "neighborhood".

^^And maybe a shrubbery? One that looks nice...and not too expensive?

^^ I feel the same way.  I'm not fond of that mega-block.  Imagine how difficult it would be to walk around it.

 

Based on the angle that the building is viewed from and the curvature of it, I do not think it is as long as you think.  Just counting the windows legnth-wise, it appears to be about 160' long.  Really not that bad (I could be wrong though).

i agree with 3231 (break up the big curvy building nearest the river) and mayday (maybe there is an interior pass through) and gotribe (maybe the building is not that big afterall)

 

yeah - its a partay!  - i agree with everyone! ; > )

 

but i still would prefer some sort of symbolic pass through as it would be great to see that BLUE river through the building when you are strolling in the park behind.  speaking of which, the coloring of the cuyahoga BLUE makes me think these drawings were done by an out of town firm....hmmmm

 

 

 

Hey man, the river is much better than it used to be!  I was watching that documentary for Earth Day about the Cuyahoga River cause there wasn't much else on, and some of those pictures were disgusting!!!!!  :-P  So maybe, just maybe it'll be blue some day!  So what do you think will happen first, all this stuff being built or the Cuyahoga river turning blue?

Our "working" river will never be blue.  Many boats get near the bottom of the river bed or their weight forces water down to the bottom of the river and that action forces silt/sediment up to the top so from a distance the river and the entrance to the river appear brown.

 

As we all know the river is cleaner than it has been in years and improving yearly.

 

 

I know, I know, I can dream, right?  :speech:

I know, I know, I can dream, right?  :speech:

 

Sure, as long as you dream in color.  :-D

^Yep.  We can also thank the developments in suburban communities upstream close to the riverbank for added soil loss which flows to the mouth of the Cuyahoga, further making it appear brown.  This is the main reason why the Cuyahoga is dirty after a large storm (no matter what anybody says, this IS the main reason! lol).

Hey folks, when is water ever blue except when it reflects the blue sky. Shouldn't clean water be clear??

 

I know, I know... I'm taking this waaay off topic!

Okay, yeah, technically you're correct, unless you're Case Western and you put blue dye in the water fountains (I can only hope it serves some other purpose besides making the water blue!).  A clearer river would appear more blue, but that's not gonna happen, and should the river be clearer some day, unless we have massive climate change, we're not gonna see blue sky any more than we already do!  So I guess we'll have to deal....  *shrug*

Is anyone else nervous about the Movie Theatre aspect of this project.  I am a little nervous that this really isn't the right development for a theatre, and the theatre may fail.  Your left with a huge building then that would be hard to convert into anything else and may sit vacant for some time.  And as soon as one thing closes down there, it will be all over everything (i.e. Hoggys at Crocker Park).  I could understand a movie theatre in SYC, which I was suprised one was not built there, but the Flats.  Just throwing it out there for discussion.  Maybe someone can ease my mind.

A press release from another in a series of worthless Ohio senators....

_________________

 

SEN. VOINOVICH ANNOUNCES $4 MILLION AWARD FOR FLATS, CLEVELAND’S FIRST DOWNTOWN GROCERY STORE

 

Funds will create jobs, make revitalized Flats East Bank more attractive home for Clevelanders

 

WASHINGTON, D.C. – U.S. Senator George V. Voinovich (R-OH) today announced that the city of Cleveland will receive a $4 million award – half of which is a grant, half a loan – from the U.S. Department of Housing and Urban Development (HUD) for brownfields redevelopment in the Flats East Bank neighborhood.

 

The project will result in the opening of downtown Cleveland’s first full-service grocery store and is expected to create 52 new full-time jobs and 100 temporary construction jobs. To date, Sen. Voinovich has secured $4.85 million for the Flats in appropriations bills and $1.28 million in the Highway Bill.

 

 

        “This funding is wonderful news for Cleveland and the revitalization of the Flats East Bank,” Sen. Voinovich said. “The potential this downtown neighborhood holds for economic development and improved quality of life in our city is enormous. And the central placement of a grocery store in downtown Cleveland grows that potential ten-fold. This makes the location even more attractive to Cleveland families and singles looking for a vibrant and safe neighborhood to call home.”

 

Cuyahoga County will receive a Brownfields Economic Development Initiative (BEDI) grant of $2 million and a Section 108 Loan for $2 million to complete this phase of the Flats East Bank Neighborhood Project. The goal of the project is to clean up a site to make it suitable for the construction of a 27,300 square foot grocery store for Cleveland residents. The grocery store project is expected to be completed by mid-2010.

 

 

The Flats East Bank Neighborhood Project is a major urban development initiative in Cleveland intended to reclaim and revitalize a critical downtown neighborhood along the Cuyahoga River known as the Flats. Comprehensive plans include the creation of new streets and the demolition of abandoned buildings which are necessary to accommodate the planned neighborhood.

 

 

The new $520 million mixed-use residential and commercial waterfront development neighborhood is one of the largest development projects in Cleveland’s history. Over $12 million in income tax will be generated during the two-year construction period and, upon completion, the project will generate approximately $3.5 million in annual tax revenue for Cleveland and $5.6 million for the state.

 

-- END --

Is anyone else nervous about the Movie Theatre aspect of this project.  I am a little nervous that this really isn't the right development for a theatre, and the theatre may fail.  Your left with a huge building then that would be hard to convert into anything else and may sit vacant for some time.  And as soon as one thing closes down there, it will be all over everything (i.e. Hoggys at Crocker Park).  I could understand a movie theatre in SYC, which I was suprised one was not built there, but the Flats.  Just throwing it out there for discussion.  Maybe someone can ease my mind.

 

As a destination with retail and restaurants.  I'm sure there will restaurants and little places like ice cream parlors or popcorn stand there as well.  People will eat before or after a movie.  Remember this is a destination.  So why are you worried??

 

Worry for TC Movie theatres.

Even then though, I think they are trying to attract an older crowd than Tower City.  Most of the moviegoers at Tower City are kids and teens that take the bus or the rapid down themselves to see a movie.  I think a movie theatre in the flats would try to attract older people who work and or live downtown.  I do hope that the movie theatre doesn't have too many screens....  Let's not build a Tinseltown in the middle of downtown!  Not yet at least...

We'll the number of screen will be a joint decision with the developer and the Movie House.  Movie theaters want distribution availability to run top flight movies (in some case the same movie in multiple formats) and Movie Studios want market saturation.

 

I'm thinking this movie theatre will be 9 (for some strange reason the majority of theatres are built in odd numbers) screens, one with a balcony, at least on IMAX screen and three HD and all should be THX certified and since this is a new build it should be DLP capable.

We'll the number of screen will be a joint decision with the developer and the Movie House.  Movie theaters want distribution availability to run top flight movies (in some case the same movie in multiple formats) and Movie Studios want market saturation.

 

I'm thinking this movie theatre will be 9 (for some strange reason the majority of theatres are built in odd numbers) screens, one with a balcony, at least on IMAX screen and three HD and all should be THX certified and since this is a new build it should be DLP capable.

 

Whatever all that means but moving on.  I am just nervous because everything else going into the Flats seems to be destination variety, and a movie theatre is not a destination style venue.  Movie theatres are not unique and are scattered about through all of Cuyahoga County.  I could see a movie theatre in the later phases of the development.  I don't think movie theatres could simply survive off of the Friday and Saturday night date nights.  I really think they depend on the weekday matinees and even weekend matinees.  I don't know if we can just throw a place like a theatre on the downtown maket right now. 

Whatever all that means but moving on.  I am just nervous because everything else going into the Flats seems to be destination variety, and a movie theatre is not a destination style venue.  Movie theatres are not unique and are scattered about through all of Cuyahoga County.  I could see a movie theatre in the later phases of the development.  I don't think movie theatres could simply survive off of the Friday and Saturday night date nights.  I really think they depend on the weekday matinees and even weekend matinees.  I don't know if we can just throw a place like a theatre on the downtown maket right now. 

 

Go tribe, first off, relax, OK. :-)

 

GoTribe, this isn't meant to be mean, but you sound like the people who have lived here forever and are skeptical about everything or anything new and involving change.  I can understand having concerns, but look over at your last few posts, they are all filled with "negativity" and "how can this work" without looking at how it can work.  Again, not to be mean, but just a thought.

 

Moving on, you're wrong about movie theatres.  They are "destination" venues, because of the foot traffic they generate.  As you elude to in you post, this is a destination.  Also, how many movie theaters are in Cleveland proper?  It's not like we're over saturated with movie theatres in Cleveland.

 

I don't think movie theatres could simply survive off of the Friday and Saturday night date nights.   

Do you really think people only go to the movie on Friday and Saturday.  Remember this is centered in a destination.  Not isolated in a stand alone area, like in the 'burbs.

 

I don't know if we can just throw a place like a theatre on the downtown maket right now. 

And what fact based information are you basing that statement on?

I'm not overwhelmed with the theater as an attraction. My view of the waterfront is more along the lines of boardwalks and bars/restaurants and amusement park areas. But I don't think the theater is a bad idea though.

 

I live in Lakewook right between two excellent theaters, Crocker Park and Valley View. But since The FEB would be the closest quality theater I am sure I'll be going there instead.

Moving on, you're wrong about movie theatres.  They are "destination" venues, because of the foot traffic they generate.  As you elude to in you post, this is a destination.  Also, how many movie theaters are in Cleveland proper?  It's not like we're over saturated with movie theatres in Cleveland.

 

I don't think movie theatres could simply survive off of the Friday and Saturday night date nights.   

Do you really think people only go to the movie on Friday and Saturday.  Remember this is centered in a destination.  Not isolated in a stand alone area, like in the 'burbs.

 

 

I don't even think it's about "destination"... remember this is a NEIGHBORHOOD.  People who live there (aprox. 1000+?) will want to use it, probably some of the workers will want to use it post work... and certainly the E&Y people brought in town for training will want to do it.  I don't think it's as much about bringing people down to it as it is about servicing the 'customers" around it.

but movie theatres draw from all over.  So not only would residents and people who work in the area use it.

 

If you go down for a meal, you might stop in for a movie.  or after the movie, before heading home, you might eat. 

 

Think of each one of the components of the FEB as an ingredient in a cake. 

but movie theatres draw from all over.  So not only would residents and people who work in the area use it.

 

If you go down for a meal, you might stop in for a movie.  or after the movie, before heading home, you might eat. 

 

Think of each one of the components of the FEB as an ingredient in a cake. 

 

I think I just like saying neighborhood.  We don't really have one of those downtown yet.  Mostly it's just residential developments in the city.  This will be our first real NEIGHBORHOOD... and I am a little fired up.  :)