This is an interesting point to bring up, and all relevant to the ingredients MTS just mentioned.

 

Where I grew up on the NJ shore, the issue of public access and enjoyment of waterfront neighborhoods is a constant struggle between wealthy homeowners and the visiting masses.

 

Finding the right balance to FEB is crucial. If the "flavor" of the FEB is too weighted on either side the project will be a failure imho.

 

Posted by: McCleveland

"I don't even think it's about "destination"... remember this is a NEIGHBORHOOD.  People who live there (aprox. 1000+?) will want to use it, probably some of the workers will want to use it post work... and certainly the E&Y people brought in town for training will want to do it.  I don't think it's as much about bringing people down to it as it is about servicing the 'customers" around it."

I don't even think it's about "destination"... remember this is a NEIGHBORHOOD.  People who live there (aprox. 1000+?) will want to use it, probably some of the workers will want to use it post work... and certainly the E&Y people brought in town for training will want to do it.  I don't think it's as much about bringing people down to it as it is about servicing the 'customers" around it.

 

I can't see this working primarily based on neighborhood demand, even with the E&Y folks included.  It's going to have to draw from a much larger area.  I don't know the exact population needed to support a multiplex, but I would guess its in the neighborhood of couple of orders of magnitude larger than the intended population of FEB.

 

but movie theatres draw from all over.  So not only would residents and people who work in the area use it.

 

If you go down for a meal, you might stop in for a movie.  or after the movie, before heading home, you might eat. 

 

Think of each one of the components of the FEB as an ingredient in a cake. 

 

I think this is right.  The theater isn't a destination, but a theater with some one of a kind restaurants and a bookstore, some nice bars for afterwards, and a nice walkway for an evening stroll along the Cuyahoga River makes for a unique destination, and that is what can bring in enough people to keep a multiplex theater going.

We'll the number of screen will be a joint decision with the developer and the Movie House.  Movie theaters want distribution availability to run top flight movies (in some case the same movie in multiple formats) and Movie Studios want market saturation.

 

I'm thinking this movie theatre will be 9 (for some strange reason the majority of theatres are built in odd numbers) screens, one with a balcony, at least on IMAX screen and three HD and all should be THX certified and since this is a new build it should be DLP capable.

 

I have heard rumors of it being more independent movies ala cedar lee/shaker square with some big movies, but also some indies too.  This would be more of an attraction than say your typical giant cinemark/regal theater that you find every 15 miles in this area.  People travel from all over NEO to cedar lee and cinemateque because you can't see those movies everywhere.  I hope this is what goes there and also hope they sell beer like cedar lee and sh square.  It would fit w/ the cleveland film festival which is also likely to move to the new theater.

^ Sounds like a Landmark Theatre

 

http://www.landmarktheatres.com/

They're already creating a westside version of the Cedar Lee over in Detroit Shoreway.

 

I would love it if we could support all of these places, but I am certainly skeptical.

 

As for the Cleveland Intl Film Fest, I like it where it is at Tower City.

 

As for the Cleveland Intl Film Fest, I like it where it is at Tower City.

 

 

Well I hate to disappoint you, but it is likely to move to the flats. 

 

Posted by: kal-el

Well I hate to disappoint you, but it is likely to move to the flats. 

 

I know that's the word. But being that the Film Fest is in March, I appreciate how indoor oriented Tower City is. It's a big warm inside gathering place. I'm not sure the FEB would be so roomy and  accomodating in early March.

Posted by: kal-el

Well I hate to disappoint you, but it is likely to move to the flats. 

 

I know that's the word. But being that the Film Fest is in Feb, I appreciate how indoor oriented Tower City is. It's a big indoor gathering place. I'm not sure the FEB would be as accomodating in early March.

 

If FCE would like to keep events as great as the film fest, i don't know, maybe they should do something like invest a little in updating their facilities.  That place is... beat... down.  I am all in favor of this moving to the flats.  FCE have been looking for an opportunity to rid themselves of that theatre anyway.

Posted by: kal-el

Well I hate to disappoint you, but it is likely to move to the flats. 

 

I know that's the word. But being that the Film Fest is in March, I appreciate how indoor oriented Tower City is. It's a big warm inside gathering place. I'm not sure the FEB would be so roomy and  accomodating in early March.

 

Although, how cool would the festival be a few months later in late spring along the river in the middle of a hip happening urban neighborhood?  I say very.

As I read these posts regarding an incredible major development for the city of Cleveland, I find it mind blowing what people find to complain about.  I am going to be very frightened when they final release some concrete renderings and everybody has a chance to comment.  There is a very good chance my computer will explode.

^agreed...there is definitely a scent of cleveland.com mulling about in this thread

Who is complaining?

 

I think everyone is bringing up some good points. 

Who is complaining?

 

I think everyone is bringing up some good points. 

 

ahhh...see my earlier posts..... :roll:

[quote author=McCleveland link=topic=1823.msg283871#msg283871

]I'm pretty sure MTS and I verbally beat the living sh*t out of the clevelanddotcomers in here yesterday. :strong:

 

You mean Clevelanddotbomb-ers!

Is there anyway that the Cleveland Aquarium will one day be integrated into the Flats plans? I know there was some renewed interest recently of trying to bring this back to Cleveland. http://www.clevelandaquarium.org/

 

What do you guys think of having an Aquarium around the Flats?

 

I personally already like the ideas they have and I would travel from time to time from Old Brooklyn, where I live, to the flats to catch a movie because I have always loved being near downtown, ever since going to Ignatius and walking down there nearly every day and exploring. I already drive to Valley View for movies all the time and this would be a great new destination to grab some good food then watch a movie. Also what do you think of having something similar to a Dave and Busters around that area?

not to get off topic (and I'm famous for that) but the aquarium has it's own thread, it would be a nice addition and help connect the lake/riverfront.  and be another ingredient in the cake.

 

Also, WELCOME  :wave:

Posted by: kal-el

Well I hate to disappoint you, but it is likely to move to the flats. 

 

I know that's the word. But being that the Film Fest is in March, I appreciate how indoor oriented Tower City is. It's a big warm inside gathering place. I'm not sure the FEB would be so roomy and  accomodating in early March.

 

woah, the new movie theater will definately be much more state of the art than tc if they run with it like that. the possibilities for digital, imax, reserved seating, smaller screening room, blah, blah....can you imagine? give them a chance, it could be....and in all reality should be....a great modern new movie theater.

Is there anyway that the Cleveland Aquarium will one day be integrated into the Flats plans? I know there was some renewed interest recently of trying to bring this back to Cleveland. http://www.clevelandaquarium.org/

 

What do you guys think of having an Aquarium around the Flats?

 

I personally already like the ideas they have and I would travel from time to time from Old Brooklyn, where I live, to the flats to catch a movie because I have always loved being near downtown, ever since going to Ignatius and walking down there nearly every day and exploring. I already drive to Valley View for movies all the time and this would be a great new destination to grab some good food then watch a movie. Also what do you think of having something similar to a Dave and Busters around that area?

 

I'd love an aquarium and long felt a major Great Lakes city like Cleveland should have a good one, after we let the old one close years ago.  Seems there were plans for one during the White admin in/near the Waterfront loop where Eaton is now looking to build its HQ.  Aquariums, to me, are the coolest zoological museums of all...

 

You can have Dave & Busters, however.  I've had fun at D&B's but they're too gimmicky to me, and kinda played out, to a degree – they seem rather “yesterday’s news” to me… Besides, one thing the old Flats was blasted for was for bringing in too many low-end-to-middling chain eateries.  Plus, D&B's are by nature gigantic and would eat up too much space in FEB's tight footprint.  Call me snooty, but I'd rather see FEB sign more high end retail, food shopping (ie Heinen's) and dining.  D&B's, Hooter’s, Max & Erma's or Dick's Last Resort, are all of the same ilk – the kind of places you grab your napkins from a toilet paper-like roll.  We've had enough of those joints in our prime areas... If I want dining, games, sports and fun, I'll mosey on over to Corner Alley, a much more unique experience that's more tailored to downtown Cleveland.

 

I don't think it has to be D&B, but a top notch (video game) arcade would fill a major gap in Downtown's entertainment portfolio.

 

As for an aquarium, I want one, but think it should go to the zoo.  I don't see any reason to use up more prime waterfront for inward looking facilities like that.

I'd love an aquarium and long felt a major Great Lakes city like Cleveland should have a good one, after we let the old one close years ago.  Seems there were plans for one during the White admin in/near the Waterfront loop where Eaton is now looking to build its HQ.  Aquariums, to me, are the coolest zoological museums of all...

 

You can have Dave & Busters, however.  I've had fun at D&B's but they're too gimmicky to me, and kinda played out, to a degree – they seem rather “yesterday’s news” to me… Besides, one thing the old Flats was blasted for was for bringing in too many low-end-to-middling chain eateries.  Plus, D&B's are by nature gigantic and would eat up too much space in FEB's tight footprint.  Call me snooty, but I'd rather see FEB sign more high end retail, food shopping (ie Heinen's) and dining.  D&B's, Hooter’s, Max & Erma's or Dick's Last Resort, are all of the same ilk – the kind of places you grab your napkins from a toilet paper-like roll.  We've had enough of those joints in our prime areas... If I want dining, games, sports and fun, I'll mosey on over to Corner Alley, a much more unique experience that's more tailored to downtown Cleveland.

 

 

I agree and you can call me a snooty as well.  If you want that stuff, build it by CSU since those places are geared towards whippersnappers and the college crowd.

 

In regard to an aquarium, I think if we got rid of the parking on North Coast we could get an aquarium in there or place it just west of the stadium.  But since it's not even a proposal, back to the FEB.  :-P

 

I don't think it has to be D&B, but a top notch (video game) arcade would fill a major gap in Downtown's entertainment portfolio.

 

I like the idea, but their novelty wears of.  There was a cool Video Game Parlor on 42 street and a second on broadway and with all the foot traffic, they just weren't profitable.  I think the overhead, since you need a ton of space, and keeping up with the changing technology cost more than a break-even number and therefore the cost of admission is out of reach of the target audience.

 

Also, home video entertainment is booming, so the need to go to an arcade isn't as "unique".

^then how about a checkers parlor?? ;)

^then how about a checkers parlor?? ;)

 

LOL.  that and Dominoes.  My grandfather would be all in it!

From cleveland.com

 

 

Five-star hotel headed to Flats east bank

Posted by Michelle Jarboe May 15, 2008 20:18PM

 

Click for image: http://blog.cleveland.com/business/2008/05/eua_20080508_aerial_LR.jpg

 

A luxury hotel topped by million-dollar condos plans to open in the redeveloped Flats by 2011, becoming possibly the premier hotel in Greater Cleveland. Developers have partnered with Starwood Capital Group to open the 1 Hotel & Residences, a five-star, $48 million hotel and condo project. Cleveland joins a short list of cities, including Seattle, New York and Washington, D.C., selected for the eco-friendly hotel. The first is scheduled to open in Washington in 2010.

 

More at cleveland.com

http://blog.cleveland.com/business/2008/05/fivestar_hotel_headed_to_flats.html

OMG I LOVE IT!

I know there was a lot of speculation as far as what hotel brand it would be; I have to admit I didn't see that coming.

I know there was a lot of speculation as far as what hotel brand it would be; I have to admit I didn't see that coming.

 

I have to admit I've never heard of it (starwood, yes, this concept no)

^ I looked it up. Apparently there is only one in Seattle so far..

Sure hope this doesn't mean that Microtel is shying away from a downtown location.  ;)

 

Wow, sounds like we couldn't get any better of a hotel product for the Flats. Great news!

Here is the link: http://www.1hotels.com/home.html

Well kids, if you look at my DC photo thread, you can see the "1 hotel" in that thread.

 

It's not a starwood brand.  Starwood and Starwood Capital are two different unrelated companies.

 

It should give the Ritz a run for it's money.  1 Hotels are marketed on the same level as "the luxury collection hotels", and of course the "W Hotel".  think of it as an "eco/green" version of a W hotel.  Saying its a St. Regis or Four Seasons is a stretch as 1 Hotels are geared towards young hipsters and St. Regis, Four Season and Peninsula's are old "stiff" especially the older RC's, FS's and St. Regis properties.

 

I now think we'll definitely see a Westin, a W and a Loews.  Those hotels are usually built and grouped together in cities.  Lets hope stark is listening.

Wow...I hope that we hear this kind of news every week.  Damn, this project has some momentum!  Way to get it done.

Good news!

So anyone know of a good job opening for an entry level computer engineer which will allow me to afford one of these places??

Man do I want to live in downtown! One of these days!

 

Great news though, keep it rolling.

From cleveland.com

 

Five-star hotel headed to Flats east bank

 

 

It's a friggin 5 star hotel. You people in Cleveland must be pretty d@mn modest because if this happend in Cincinnati we would all be jumping up and down and saying it's AMAZING news followed by claims that this is proof we are the best midwestern city.

 

Cool rendering, looks great and makes the site look very Vegas-ey.

 

It's 6am; not exactly the time when my imagination and intellect peaks but If I designed this place I think I'd pay close attention to what's going on at the edges of that large courtyard. It would be great if they had a few restaurants, maybe with some outdoor seating or a few retailers. I think public spaces tend to be failures unless you force people into them by giving them a reason to use it and interact. Is that a pool house in the back of the courtyard?  :-D

so far this looks like a really good development.

Did anybody else see this post from Clevleand.com?  Can anybody confirm or deny some of this stuff?

 

I am talking about purchasing one of the units. It 's about time we had some true luxury downtown. I've looked for a long time for a residence to fit my needs.

 

Here is what I've learned from inside sources:

 

1. A few blocks in the flats will be gated. Use will be for residents and guests only. This will solve the crime problems. I wish the gated area would stretch further, but it's a start.

 

2. Trader Joe's closing at Crocker Park and moving to the flats

 

3. There will be an exclusive marina

 

4. All residents will get Browns season tickets

 

5. Five or six new high-end bars going in

 

6. Microsoft to take some offices in the flats

 

7. New private park along the river for residents only

 

All in all, cook stuff! Comeback city.

 

 

I don't like the idea of all the private stuff but really Microsoft and Trader Joe's that's good news.

^Sounds like completely mindless speculation, and given that it's in the comments section on cleveland.com, consider the source.

Did anybody else see this post from Clevleand.com?  Can anybody confirm or deny some of this stuff?

 

I am talking about purchasing one of the units. It 's about time we had some true luxury downtown. I've looked for a long time for a residence to fit my needs.

 

Here is what I've learned from inside sources:

 

1. A few blocks in the flats will be gated. Use will be for residents and guests only. This will solve the crime problems. I wish the gated area would stretch further, but it's a start.

 

2. Trader Joe's closing at Crocker Park and moving to the flats

 

3. There will be an exclusive marina

 

4. All residents will get Browns season tickets

 

5. Five or six new high-end bars going in

 

6. Microsoft to take some offices in the flats

 

7. New private park along the river for residents only

 

All in all, cook stuff! Comeback city.

 

 

Hilarious. All those retail and restaurants will do so well if they are separated from the public by security gates. The poster does a good job of sucking you in with some positive news before dumping the ridiculous on you.

Gated BLOCKS in the Flats? Sometimes I'm glad our city is declining in population, as I seriously would hate for these venom-inducing suburbanites to be more directly engaged in community planning processes. Sigh. But I shouldn't be too hard on them; despite the call for a "Rich People Zoo", he or she did seem pretty supportive of the project. It could be worse.

 

Now, Trader Joe's ... I would LOVE to see that be a reality. Stayed in a great hotel in Seattle that was a mix of high-end condos, upscale hotel rooms and a Trader Joe's on the ground level. Yaya!

 

Can someone refresh my memory? Are these plans architecturally accurate or just an idea of the overall size of the proposed buildings. I recall talk that Wolstein was planning on engaging multiple architects and pushing for a very modern diverse stock so it didn't look as much like a "project". Is this rendering pre- or post- the plans of those architects?

 

^They are just massings with some lipstick put on them. I don't care for that style of lipstick.

^They are just massings with some lipstick put on them. I don't care for that style of lipstick.

 

but the pig looks really nice, had me fooled.

They were talking all about the PD article this morning on Q104 between 7:30 and 8 (anyone else hear it?)  People seem to be pretty receptive, except for the first bitterly negative caller who was quickly ripped a new one by the hosts.  :shoot:  Woot!  There were two additional things that were constantly brought up throughout that entire half hour, though, an aquarium (I know we've got a separate thread for that) and a casino.  People seemed to be all about both of those, except for Rebecca (one of the hosts) brought up a good point about the casino thing (if they were ever legalized) sucking even more money out of Cleveland residents.  Sure it would be good for the city, but would its residents then get poorer?  Comparing what casinos have or haven't done for another city is one way to look at it - I'm originally from St. Louis, and they legalized casinos when I was younger.  At first the law was that casinos had to be on water - just recently have they made it to land.  At any rate, my point is that there are way more casinos in St. Louis now than I can name, and the city (based on what my parents tell me and what I read in the local media) is arguably having a much harder time revitilizing itself than Cleveland is.  It's been at least 10 years since the casinos started opening, and they really haven't visibly done anything for the city of St. Louis.  Maybe it would work for Cleveland, I don't know, but based on what I've seen in my own hometown, casinos are not the solution.

That above post is ridiculous. The riverfront park will be public, along with a new boardwalk all along the river.

Sorry about that I should have known better to post something from their bloggers...

Back to the news of the day, I'm very excited about this hotel. I believe their building in Seattle has a photovoltaic-integrated facade, so the face of the building is actually generating energy. I'm sure they'll want to do similarly cool things here. (The article should have played up the green aspirations of this chain more. That's what makes it so much cooler, literally and figuratively, than W and other high-end brands.)

we dont need gates to "stop crime problems". What a  load of crock.  Having warm bodies living down there will do it naturally. The area right around where I live has less and less crime the with MORE people that move in to the nabe. If I had a TJ's over there, I could surrender my passport to burbia and never have to leave city limits again

Back to the news of the day, I'm very excited about this hotel. I believe their building in Seattle has a photovoltaic-integrated facade, so the face of the building is actually generating energy. I'm sure they'll want to do similarly cool things here. (The article should have played up the green aspirations of this chain more. That's what makes it so much cooler, literally and figuratively, than W and other high-end brands.)

 

I'm sure as we get into construction and near completion we will be inundated with such articles. (and that's not a bad thing)

A few musings... 1) Wolstein has owned most of the land to be developed for decades and watched as the area plummeted towards the wasteland it currently is.  He has been doing nothing about development and then arguing that the only way for it to happen was for the owners of adjacent lots to sell to him.  He gets rich, while we wait.  2) Forest City, the other major land holder in the flats (Scranton frickin Penninsula for one) is playing the same game and has done multi-million dollar deals in San Francisco, Chicago, Pittsburgh, New York City, etc. while failing to invest in the town for whom it owes its namesake!  3) Have we learned nothing from the white flight of the mid-20th century?  Trying to solve socio-economic issues by building barriers is ridiculous.  Granted we don't know how large the private area will be and thus it is early to cast aspersions, however using it as a selling point is a way to say to suburban converts, "Hey there, we sterilized the central business district so that you could continue to live your shallow, greedy, consumption driven life where you forget the human capital of the world and hide in your elitist towers without facing the realities of the world."  Jane Jacobs understood the correlation between population density and sense of space/place/community/safety and while the density will be achieved, the aloof high-rise population will continue to avoid the great diversity that is urban living!  4) I want Cleveland to succeed as much as anyone, however, I believe success as a leader in Energy technology and production (see CWRU Energy Program and the recent relocation of Munich, Germany's IBC solar) is a more important step than trying to subsist as a tourism and service city, particularly due to the oft inclement weather.  As it becomes increasingly clear that as oil prices continue to rise, the urban centers of most of America's major cities are destined to gain population as it becomes cost prohibitive to commute long hours and what better way to employ those new citizens than in an industry designed to reduce pollution and save our earth.  5) I guess I'm just ambivalent in supporting five star hotels when the schools are still a mess and the property taxes (a primary source of Cleveland Public School District funding) on those $400,000-2million condos will likely be abated for 10 years as an incentive to build.  6) As for trader joes, why not relocate in a near west side neighborhood instead of next to Constantine's which already sells amazing products and is just up the hill.

 

 

Believlander... your not buying into that gated community crap are you?  Some idiot in cleveland.com posted that.  It's not happening.

 

Since I decided to move downtown, I started to mapquest every single crime I see in the news (great for procrastination).  At any rate, I think it's safe to say that downtown (or any small part of it) doesn't need to be a gated community, nor do I believe any of that speculation is correct.  Additionally, I know everybody hates cleveland.com people around here, but I did see a couple of interesting things in their comments - 1. Someone was a relative of one of the planners and was insisting that nothing was to be gated and more interestingly 2. According to one of the green societies, all greenspace and sidewalks must be made public.  Now, I'm not saying any of this is definitely true, but it's a couple of points to look in to.