Have 1/2 of it rise 10 feet above the water to allow boat traffic.  Paging Peter B Lewis, Cleveland needs a ped bridge over the river...

Flats East Bank would really benefit from something like this, and Wendy Park would probably quadruple its usage.

What kind of value do developers put on proximity to parks?

 

West Bank's developer Doug Price has put a high value on it. Stonebridge's masterplan has links to Wendy Park and the rest of Whiskey Island but lack the public funds for it.

I support idea of the "the Bridge to Somewhere"

 

Where is Ted Stevens when you need him?

Just another update; just some more mud being pushed around:

 

Do those steel beams lying on the ground mean anything? *cough*gotribe*cough* (or other knowledgeable folks):

 

New water/sewer lines being prepped for the western section:

 

Scroll ------>

Mmm, mud.

Is there something going on in the Arhaus Furniture building?  The old window signs were taken down, as well as a for sale sign i believe.  It seems as if the cliche nightclub Earth has helped instill life back into that stretch of the Flats (Earth is in the old Odeon space).  People were outside in packs last night, so there is some semblance of life down the hill again.  I just was kind of reluctantly excited at the prospect of the Arhaus building being bought for a new purpose. 

^ There's a bar in there called Roc Bar.  Website is http://www.rocbarcleveland.com/.

Wasn't sure whether to put it here or in the Eaton section so feel free to move it where it is most appropriate.

 

Eaton sought costly changes on port's Flats land

Posted by Tom Breckenridge/Plain Dealer Reporter October 20, 2008 19:15PM

Categories: Breaking News, Economic development, Real Estate News Impact, Real Time News, Real estate

John Kuntz/The Plain DealerNew documents show that Eaton Corp. requested multiple changes to develop a headquarters in the Flats.

 

Eaton Corp. requested multiple, costly changes at a working port so that Eaton could develop a proposed headquarters in the gritty Flats, newly released documents show.

 

Eaton wanted to know whether the port could move cement silos, stone piles and a massive warehouse, all within a short walk of the company's proposed headquarters. All are considered vital to the port's daily business.

 

More at

http://blog.cleveland.com/business/2008/10/_earlier_coverage_eaton_likely.html

 

 

There's also a very detailed article about these issues in this week's Crains (hopefully someone with online access can post) and suffice it to say, I'm feeling less and less bad about losing Eaton.  They had some pretty outrageous demands (dictating the design of the E&Y tower?  Sign-off and a 2 floor limit to any future buildings to be built on the lakefront? C'Mon!!) and so at this point I say good riddance.  The Flats parcel is too good for what Eaton was planning. Now, the right project, when it comes along, will be able take full advantage of this incredibly unique location.

2-floor limit? Suuuure, so Sandy can have Gates Mills on the Cuyahoga :roll:

I bet a 20 story building instead of a corporate campus would have allowed excellent lakefront and city views.  Eaton Corp is such a freaking joke.

Earlier in this thread, my disgust was primarily towards the City for "letting" this development slip through their fingers.  Well, it looks like losing Eaton will not be a bad thing for Cleveland, and that some of our most precious land will be developed in a more suitable way in the future.  Eaton will have stunning views of a freeway at their new campus in Beachwood instead of the Cuyahoga River.  Instead of eating at some of the region's best and well known restaurants, along with enjoying a plethora of things this city has to offer downtown, visitors will be treated to Red Lobster and Bahama Breeze.  What an about face for a long-time Cleveland company.  I'm with KJP, losing them is not such a bad thing after all. 

a 2 floor limit? wow. all those years and they learned nothing about being downtown? any open land they saw there is just okey doke for warehouses? yeah, they wanted to go.

 

isn't it funny that old economy/industrial heritage businesses are going to the outskirts and today more 'creative' businesses all want to cluster in downtowns. that's the opposite trend of what it used to be. going out to pasture i guess.

Eaton will have stunning views of a freeway at their new campus in Beachwood instead of the Cuyahoga River. Instead of eating at some of the region's best and well known restaurants, along with enjoying a plethora of things this city has to offer downtown, visitors will be treated to Red Lobster and Bahama Breeze.

 

As many people have already pointed out (but which you are really hitting home): good luck recruiting young, educated talent, Eaton.

Crain's:

 

Memo hints at Eaton’s issues with Flats site 

 

 

  By JAY MILLER

 

    4:30 am,    October 20, 2008

 

 

Last spring, after months of negotiations to put together a deal to create a new headquarters in the Flats for Eaton Corp., the public officials working on the transaction were presented by the corporate giant with a list of requests.

 

It's unclear whether the requests were make-or-break issues or whether Eaton simply was acting as a typical tenant trying to get as much as it could in a negotiation. Either way, the deal didn't happen, as Eaton last month announced plans to move to a greenfield site in the 630-acre Chagrin Highlands development in Beachwood.

 

More at crainscleveland.com http://www.crainscleveland.com 

Truly amazing.  Not only did they want to build their own ugly suburban box, they wanted to impose similar thinking on everyone around them.  Keeping Eaton would have been a net loss for the city.   

Truly amazing. Not only did they want to build their own ugly suburban box, they wanted to impose similar thinking on everyone around them. Keeping Eaton would have been a net loss for the city.  

 

I agree. I'm astounded and appalled by their expectations and desires for the area. It's such a shame that this corporation is so misguided planning-wise. It will be interesting to see how this decision affects their business in the long run.

so for those of us that were bitching about this and predicting this many pages ago,and were blasted for our wise skepticism,  apology accepted :wink:

I still don't think losing a fortune 100 company from the city is a good thing.  It is upseting that the only location they seemed willing to consider was FEB.

 

Otherwise, FEB is still an awesome project, and most cities would kill for this type of development.

I still don't think losing a fortune 100 company from the city is a good thing. It is upseting that the only location they seemed willing to consider was FEB.

 

Feel free discuss that at the Eaton relocation thread.

Oh no!

---

 

Posted by Plain Dealer Business Staff October 28, 2008 13:45PM

Categories: Real Time News

 

Work on the $522 million Flats East Bank project has been suspended, and the credit crisis raises questions as to whether the long-awaited development will happen.

 

The global crunch on lending "is impacting the developer's ability to close private and public financing," according to a news release from The Wolstein Group and Fairmount Properties. The developers said they intend to move forward with the project, a huge redevelopment that some see as critical to downtown Cleveland's future. Developer Scott Wolstein and his mother, Iris, already have spent more than $50 million on the neighborhood, which is a legacy project for the family.

 

 

More at

Flats East Bank project put on hold

ugh.  I don't even want to open up cleveland.bomb.  ugh..  depressed..  I need coffee..

So, does E&Y and Tucker Ellis just re-negotiate their current lease and stay put for more years to come...I think so.

That piece of property will look like a mess by next summer.  I feel bad for any west bank people that view that sloppy weed and wild plant garden.

Ugh.  Let's hope this is a short suspension.

This credit crisis really sucks. Everyday, either at the local or national level, we are seeing profound effects.

ugh... i was hoping this would get straightened out before it got out... from what I gathered the private financing portion fell through, actually i should say the private financing portion seemed to be rewriting the rules daily on what they wanted on how much upfront money needed to be used.  Until it got to the point that wolstein no longer could meet those demands.  I'm hoping that when the "credit crisis" subsides (which we're all assuming it will at some point) that this would pick back up fairly quickly given the amount of tennants it has on board.  I'm sure if those tennants now seek elsewhere it could jeopardize the project.

 

As to go tribes point... I think actually all the public subsidies are in place... so I'll be interested in seeing if the city continues with infastructure work to avoid exactly the scenario you are forecasting, and to not further delay the project if/when the private banking world returns to some sort of normalcy.

Horrible news, but not completely unexpected.  I add my hopes that this is just temporary.

They should not have been allowed to tear anything down until they had a deal in place.

)(@#*#^*&@^$.  :(

DAMMIT!!  To be serious, I can't say that this was unexpected.  Lets hope it picks back up soon.

They should not have been allowed to tear anything down until they had a deal in place.

 

That was my big fear about this project all along.  I hope this doesn't become the new Scranton Peninsula.

They should not have been allowed to tear anything down until they had a deal in place.

 

That was my big fear about this project all along. I hope this doesn't become the new Scranton Peninsula.

 

Unless you mean duration-wise, it already is.  We now have two of them.

 

This is the kind if project where the feds should say to PNC /Key/Fifth/Huntington you get money IF AND ONLY IF... in fact, why can't they do that?  Here's a chance for Dennis! to show up LaTourette.

They should not have been allowed to tear anything down until they had a deal in place.

 

I completely agree.  The last several weeks have not been good for Cleveland.  Damn

I asked the question whether or not they had secured financing back in June. I guess I've finally got my answer. What suprises me is that they didn't (speculation) attempt to secure financing for just the tower considering they have two anchor tenants. Does anyone recall what percentage of the total space in the office tower E&Y and T&E were to occupy?

I don't think there is any such thing as "secured financing" right now.

Okay, don't jump on my back about this, but I heard from someone over the weekend that even though demolition has happened, this project isn't guaranteed because the all of the money hasn't come through yet.

 

Now, I don't buy it.  I have no reason to believe this person is credible at all, but she works at a law firm downtown and is a member of the city club, and she allegedly "knows" people that know Wolstein, so, it made me pause.

 

Tell me it's guaranteed and that this girl is an idiot.  Please.

I think Ipsilon's post is more than fair.  If anyone thinks banks aren't reconsidering their development commitments, your sadly mistaken.  Banks are running out of sources to replenish capital as institutional investors have gotten smoked.  Banks, big to small, are still bleeding and trying to ratchet down leverage.

 

Regarding FEB, I don't know if they have loan commitments or not.  If they do , bankers may be itching for one loan covenant violation to call their commitment.  If they do not, Wolstein shouldn't be surprised to find banks looking for a personal guarantee.  Developers loathe this but banks are licking their wounds.

 

Just my opinion.

 

Ipsilon was out in front of this... and created some good debate with this post.  This board is interesting due to people's differing professional backgrounds and there added expertise.  Unfortunately, I think developers (and not just in Cleveland) are worse off now than what I thought this summer.  I know, not a good opinion.

 

Unrelated... but not... ironically, KeyCorp and Cleveland should be thankful that the Treasury's decision to sacrifice Nat City probably saved Key.  Just my opinion.

This is perhaps some of the toughest news to swallow because there's no clear, simple target to blame. We can't blame some executive or politician with a personal bias or favoring a special interest. This is quite simply the result of fallout from something that no one, regardless of how powerful, can stop or otherwise control for the foreseeable future. It's subject to the marketplace, and no one knows when it will shift, adjust and settle. All we can do is wait.

So does work just stop at the site?

I was promised a "renaissance" and all I got was a lousy strip club district

Looking back, those holdout property owners (especially the ones  who "claimed" they were interested in going forward with their own developments which was pure bs) really screwed the project.  If there was not this more than year delay as the litigation proceeded, financing would have probably been in place well before the "crisis".

^Bingo.  This has nothing to do with June.  June might as well of been a decade ago.  At the time it would have been odd for them to have financing secured at that point in the project.  I don't think anyone saw things getting quite this bad.  Honestly I have been in the commercial architecture / design / construction end of things for about 9 years.  I really thought I had "heard and seen it all", but I've seen and heard stuff in the last 6-8 weeks that would make your head spin.  And not just Cleveland.  This is a rather unparalled lending environment we're seeing right now.

 

That being said, this is still a good project, with a lot of commitments, and I'm confident when this thaws it will move forward.  And let's put it this way... if things stay so bad that a project like this never gets off the ground (here or elsewhere), we're going to have a lot more to worry about than development concerns...

McCleveland,

 

I agree with 100%. If things continue to deteriorate, projects like FEB will be the last thing we have to worry about.

With the credit crunch hindering financing of the project which, in turn, is hindering the City's floating of bonds for infrastructure, I wonder if a good faith move by the City to fund independently, the infrastructure improvements to trigger a reverse, up-the-chain, credit unfreezing.  The plans are too specific and advanced, the demolition is too complete for the City (or County) to allow this land to sit fallow as it currently is.  As we've seen, there's already been foundation work for at least one of the buildings -- the office tower, if I'm not mistaken.  Why not?  The County just came off $500K for K&G to keep the Breuer Tower project moving as well as increase the sales tax to finance the Med Mart conv. center project, which unlike FEB, has not yet tangibly moved forward. 

 

With the financial crisis dooming NCB along with thousands of jobs, and Eaton's thumbing it's nose at FEB, this latest news is the cherry atop one disastrous few months for the City.  Is Univ. Circle's Uptown development the next big project to fall?

 

Looking back, those holdout property owners (especially the ones   who "claimed" they were interested in going forward with their own developments which was pure bs) really screwed the project. If there was not this more than year delay as the litigation proceeded, financing would have probably been in place well before the "crisis".

 

You're right.  This is one time the typically Cleveland: 'screw the City until I get mine' may really cost us bigtime. 

Investors are keeping a trillion dollars in "money market funds" at the moment: these investors are "afraid" to buy into the stock market right now so they are just marking time.

 

I envisiage that "some entity" could create a financial product that would allow investors to pool resources and create financial products that would become bonds for investors like Wolstein to use.  These financial products could exist outside of the existing "banking system" that has has just blown up.

 

I understand equity investing but I don't understand banking.  I don't know if there is such a product yet.  "I'm looking".

I don't think this has been posted yet. It is the official release from Wolstein. I feel a little more confident after reading it. It doesn't sound as dead as our friends at the peedee would suggest.

 

FLATS PROJECT TO MOVE FORWARD

Developers say Flats East Bank will happen, despite troubling economic times,

but work to be temporarily suspended

Cleveland - October 28, 2008 - The developers of the $522 million Flats East Bank

neighborhood say that despite worsening economic conditions, they still intend to move forward

with the project. But, they say work will be placed in a temporary holding pattern in the face of

the global credit crisis that is impacting the developer’s ability to close private and public

financing anticipated for the project.

 

continued at>>>>>>>

http://blog.cleveland.com/business/2008/10/flats-project-on-hold.pdf

###

This is the point I was trying to make in my post... this is not, a "cleveland" thing...

 

As everyone well knows, there is an historic dislocation in the debt market,” said Scott

Wolstein, who is leading the development of Flats East Bank with his mother, Iris, and codeveloper

Fairmount Properties. "Virtually all new development projects nationwide are stalled

or shut down as a result of what's happening in the financial industry.”

 

This is the point I was trying to make in my post... this is not, a "cleveland" thing...

 

Yeah .. felt a bit like Chicken Little there for a while ..

the question is, when does the market stabilize enough for private debt to be ready to commit?  6, 12, 18 months?  I don't feel too comfortable.  Its a tricky thing to finance to begin with.  Perhaps PNC would like to earn some positive vibes with the people of Cleveland by leading a bank group here.  That's the least they could do (joking.....sort of).