So what will those firms do? Stay put temporarily? Look at something completely different, i.e. Jacobs' PS Tower or K&D's Ameritust project?

 

Move to Beachwood?

what are the odds Wolstein eventually sells his land down there to another developer? I can't see him sitting on that land indefinitely with no money to do anything, or would he? It's not like he can open some parking lots down there and generate some revenue.

 

Oh I think this could be irrelevant. Remember how he got the land in the first place was through eminent domain.  It would be deliciously ironic if he gets held up by the same gun.

There are plans being presented to different banks for construction of new office space for certain tenants.  When the FEB plans were announced by the PD and developer..it was made to seem that it was done deals - but there are always "outs".  The fact that the FEB project is not going forward right now is a huge "out" for the office tenants. 

 

Hopefully - there will be some news in the next month or so about possible construction occuring downtown for some previously discussed tenants.

There are plans being presented to different banks for construction of new office space for certain tenants. When the FEB plans were announced by the PD and developer..it was made to seem that it was done deals - but there are always "outs".  The fact that the FEB project is not going forward right now is a huge "out" for the office tenants. 

 

Hopefully - there will be some news in the next month or so about possible construction occuring downtown for some previously discussed tenants.

 

"Plans"?  Do tell!!

http://www.wcpn.org/WCPN/news/26307

 

East Flats Development Project Getting Back On Track

 

Posted Wednesday, May 20, 2009

Topics: Economy

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A development projects in Cleveland’s east Flats that stalled last year is looking good to start up again this summer. Ideastream’s Bill rice reports.

 

The mixed use development project begun by developer Scott Wolstein ground to a halt last fall, a victim of the credit freeze created by turmoil in the financial sector.  Now, Wolstein says, banks are still not lending for new development projects.  But he’s finding other financing sources, such as loans from the state, private and public bond issues, and direct investment in infrastructure from agencies like the Cleveland Water and Sewer District.  All told, he says, it’s enough to proceed with the project’s first phase…

 

Wolstein:  “...which would be about a 240 million dollar project that would include the office tower anchored by Ernst and Young and Tucker Ellis and West.  Also the hotel, and some retail, parking garage and other amenities.”

 

Not all of the financing pieces are in place yet, but Wolstein says they probably will be within a few weeks.  He says he hopes to get the project back underway within sixty days, and have office space ready for tenants by 2011.

 

The second phase will include more retail, along with entertainment venues and residential housing.  Wolstein plans to finance that through the banking system when the real estate market begins to rebound. 

Wow .. okay .. so .. this sounds good .. right? :)

I must say that I just don't believe it. It would be nice to be incorrect.

So residental is not part of Phase I???

 

i guess I didn't understand that from before.

This is from Wednesday--just after Wolstein got some money to do some remediation work. If there was some substantial news, I'd assume that Crains and the PD would have picked up on it and reported it. I'd think that this is just more posturing on Wolstein's part. 

It sounds like this 'Phase 1' is going to be the office tower and not much else? Maybe the promenade/riverside stuff too? Even if that's the case, it's a start....

does this mean that construction on at least phase one may start this summer?

 

how many stories did they say the office tower is going to be? I herd it a while ago but cant remember.

how many stories did they say the office tower is going to be? I herd it a while ago but cant remember.

 

might I suggest reading or searching articles in this very thread.

how many stories did they say the office tower is going to be? I herd it a while ago but cant remember.

 

might I suggest reading or searching articles in this very thread.

Well to save you reading 85 pages worth of posts, last year the E&Y tower was announced as 20 or 21 floors. http://www.urbanohio.com/forum2/index.php/topic,1823.msg283399/topicseen.html#msg283399

They have this really cool search function here. I realize it's not perfect, but it will save someone from having to ask another person.

They have this really cool search function here. I realize it's not perfect, but it will save someone from having to ask another person.

 

Just don't ask Murray Hill...his search skills are suspect.  he he he he he he  >:D  ;)

I just checked the Flats East Bank website.  http://www.flatseast.com/  I like how at the top they say "Opening 2010" at least they are optimistic.

Will the new hotel they were going to build as part of this project still be a possibility if the project gets back on track?

I wish this project would at least post some signage so it doesn't look like Cleveland's best presentation of the riverfront is a tract of exposed dirt.

I wish this project would at least post some signage so it doesn't look like Cleveland's best presentation of the riverfront is a tract of exposed dirt.

 

I agree.  Sitting at Shooters for the 4th, a lot of people were asking what was going on across the river...and not a single sign or rendering.  This should be an easy fix for a few hundred dollars, and could be considered a requirement for projects in the city. 

 

It isn't uncommon for projects funded by different sources (feds, state, city, foundations) to have to put signs and renderings up.

Good observation. I took a few moments to write to Flats East about placing signage. Perhaps more of us can send them a note. Your story from Shooters demonstrates the simple need for the sign. Maybe even a few trees around the perimeter...something instead of what it is now, especially since so many projects are on hold. It leave people to wonder. A business without a sign is a sign of no business...is what a Warren sign maker once said!  :laugh:

Hitting Shooters with my girl and a few friends on Friday!  Wish there were more places like that in the Flats like in the old days

It will come back again.. Better than before, I think.

Sigh...Cleveland's once biggest convention and tourist draw is now a brownfield.  Literally.

And the point of that was .... what?

any new updates on this development please say yes!!

 

Just remarking on the Tbideon post above reflecting on the good old days.

 

I never will get over the fact that this loser (Wolstein) had the gall to tear down Kindlers.  A near 100 yr. old establishment dripping with character and history.  Longshoremen were knocking back ales and eggs in this place when this jerk's old man was in diapers.  He may of owned the property but in my view he didn't have the right to demolish that piece of Cleveland history.  It could of been incorporated into his stupid generic "movie theater" neighborhood.  There were many other historic buildings in that area that should have been retained.  None were "deteriorating".  Hell some of those restaurants were virtually new. 

 

I've been posting on the Schofield renovation project thread.  Some of the posts on there are of people like me looking back at the glory of Euclid Ave. and thinking "how could they of been so stupid in the 60's and 70's to tear some of those buildings down, what a shame!!?  Well folks in my opinion that is exactly what has happened here in 2006-08 with the East Bank of the Flats.  The East bank has been on the slide - just like Euclid in the 60's and 70's, so Mr. Big Businessman Wolstein figured he needed to shake things up a bit to gets things right.  Time to call in some political favors and get some Emminent Domain action going to steal peoples' property.  (The implementation of this law is horrible)  Then get some hastily drawn proposals up and start lobbying for some PUBLIC funding.  Who cares if my business plan is garbage.  Then lets get out the wrecking ball and start knocking down some history. 

 

Anybody who LOVED Cleveland like he says would have incorporated a few of those buildings into his plan.  There was tons of space to work them in - 80% of that area was surface parking.  Kindlers could of been the quaint historic corner pub for his fake neighborhood if this loser had any vision, heart or soul.  I don't believe for a second that Wolstein was doing this out of Altruistic movitations for Cle.  He saw $$ dollar signs on the hot real estate market and wanted to turn an depreciating area into fast money. 

 

Mr. Wolstein is the worst type of political vulture that has been feasting on this city for years.  Don't confuse this golden spooned fool for some type of entrepreneur.  He is not.  He is a leech.  He is no better than the losers who tore down some of our proudest historic buildings for parking lots and collecting "urban renewal" funds in the 60's and 70's. 

 

I know this post has alot of venom.  But I do hold grudges, i live in CLE and I will never go to this joke neighborhood he builds or his stupid theater.  I wish he would just leave town - before he tries to take the Terminal Tower by emminent domain, bulldozes it and puts in a Walmart in its place.

 

Thanks Scott.

Any update on the May "getting back on track" WCPN.com article announcing public funding, among others, would kick-start phase one?  Any movement, physical or otherwise down there?

Didn't Kindlers turn into a dance club for the last few years of its existance?

 

Greyrat, your angry post makes complete sense to me. Wolstein's generic theater concept could simply work anywhere, and did nothing to capitalize on the historic, special, waterfront qualities of the Flats. I can't even go near the East Bank without feeling disgusted.

 

 

"Anybody who LOVED Cleveland like he says would have incorporated a few of those buildings into his plan.  There was tons of space to work them in - 80% of that area was surface parking.  Kindlers could of been the quaint historic corner pub for his fake neighborhood if this loser had any vision, heart or soul.  I don't believe for a second that Wolstein was doing this out of Altruistic movitations for Cle.  He saw $$ dollar signs on the hot real estate market and wanted to turn an depreciating area into fast money."

I never will get over the fact that this loser (Wolstein) had the gall to tear down Kindlers.

I often like to quote the elder Wolstein when the subject of infill development and sensitive historic integration comes up. Back in the early 80's, before renovations were made to the warehouse district, and an arena was considered, he was quoted as saying, "It's all junk, frankly they should tear the whole area down".

WHAT A GUY!

@Punch - Kindlers never turned into a dance club.  When it became "Club Amsterdam" they added some lounge sofas upstairs and took out a couple of the pool tables up there.  Like they were trying to make it a "Friends" type W. 6th bar.  The first floor they took out some the cool leaded glass and oak original cabinetry, but kept some too.  It was still 85% original or so.  Still had the beautiful long bar that led to the corner entry door.  The entry door area was a work of art itself with the leaded glass and woodwork.  I believe they retained the original Oak ice boxes behind the bar - but could be mistaken.  I remember it had a really old phone booth built into the wall that was pretty cool.  They still had lunch times with the old red and white checkered table cloths - these went away at night for the DJ (when it was Club Amsterdam) - these stayed put all day and night when it was Kindlers.  So it was still very much the original historic bar very much a part of the area for 100+ years.  Just the last 10 were bad for the whole area - so, tear it ALL down??  That's real creative thinking Scott.

 

I've taken my meds and cooled off - but I've been stewing over what has happened there for about 2 years (since Kindlers was torn down).  I only recently found this website. 

 

Part of my anger at Wolstein in particular is that people with his wealth, influence and power have a duty not to trash the history that makes our city unique and gives it it's character and soul.  (and even more desirable IMO).  I have a 3 1/2 yr. old at home, I don't have time to protest and organize against the wealthy and powerful who flippantly make these decisions to tear places like this down.  His wealth and ownership of the FEB comes with a civic responsibility.  When I first heard his plans of making this area a "neighborhood" I was really optimistic.  I could envision filling in the surface lots with some unique tight streets, putting up maybe some 2-3 story brownstones down some of these streets.  Sure maybe taking down a few of the more decayed buildings on the water that just don't work and putting up a modern 10-15 story condo unit/office tower.  Turn some of the existing historic buildings into coffee houses/ice cream parlors for the neighborhood that is being developed.  Maybe even saving a little bit of the waterfront for a neighborhood park - for the "neighborhood".  Any parking would be in a multi-level garage - maybe down by the railroad tracks where the RTA crosses over.  That would of been my general plan.  This "filling in" would of been done gradually so I didn't have to get a bazillion dollars in advance to begin. 

 

So now that this has played out it's plain to see.  There was no vision to make this a "neighborhood".  This was about building high priced condos, office towers and relocating existing CLE businesses to these office towers - ground will be broken once said businesses have signed a lucrative lease with the Wolstein group tax abated of course.  What's this do for CLE other than take E&Y from the business district (and existing landlords paying taxes) and sticks them in the flats??  If he was going to pull a load of Microsoft employees/operations to come here and setup shop in his towers - then I guess I would hold my nose and accept his plan as "progress".  What we have is not progress but a disaster.  Wolstein even made a pitch for the Medical Mart in the 11th hour.  Was that in his neighborhood plan??  I don't really think he had much of a plan, step 1 which he has executed - BULLDOZE all buildings north of the shoreway bridge into rubble.  Step 2 - shake down my political connections for PUBLIC funding - also executed.  The current plan that I see on the FEB website makes me wretch. 

 

This debacle is the poster child for all that is wrong with civic planning.  Even if he executes the office tower/theatre and whatever else - it can't replace the gems that were lost and it saddens me.  IMO opinion this is a huge step backwards for that area.

Well then the apple didn't fall far from the tree BarneyBoy.  The younger Wolstein was able to follow through on his fathers grand vision of "tearing it all down".  I find it interesting (or karmic) that we both used the word "filling in" in our posts - I was typing up my tome and hadn't seen your post until after I had submitted mine.  The area did need filling in and the properties needed to be turned into different uses other than rows of bars.  Seeing how he owned most of the land - Wolstein was and is partly responsible for it's decline.  Not realizing soon enough that the Frat Boy Bar party atmosphere of the flats was wearing thin and young adults were going elsewhere and having no idea on how to change the area - other than this crap we have designed now on his FEB website. 

 

There was nothing wrong with most of the buildings in that area.  They did need to change the use of 90% of them.  The all-bars all the time flats was history.  Those buildings weren't always bars.  Many of those buildings could of been turned into many different types of uses and still have that historic character and feel that the area should have retained.  Of course I feel Kindlers should have remained a bar as it always had been since horse and buggys were delivering patrons to it's doors.

 

So by the looks of the renderings Wolstein would like would like to turn his emminent domained land into "Crocker Park - Downtown".  I wonder if he will get a "Hoggies" to take the place where Kindlers once stood??  Or maybe a TGIF's???  Maybe he can call his new "neighborhood"  Wolstein Park Village Office Towers Neighborhood??  Although for a while he was going for Wolstein Medical Mart Village Neighborhood, but he just couldn't sell his vision to those Chicago guys.  Hard to believe with all the detailed planning that went into it. 

 

I am very glad my tax dollars are going to assist this visionary.  (sarcasm)

 

I've read through about 40 pages of this thread and I must say I was a little disappointed in the lack of dissent (and in some cases actual enthusiasm) in regards to this FEB demolition from many posters.  Obviously, there was more to the flats than just bars from the 1980's.  A true piece of cleveland history - wiped out over a summer.  I'm also sorry that I wasn't a member of this forum then and would have like to spark some debate on this issue and maybe got into action on doing something about it.  I don't want to be an apathetic citizen, but it is hard to stay on top of this stuff. 

^ Some good points. There were some good old buildings removed..... The bar only scene was destined to wear thin. I predicted that in 1988 when I was going there every weekend. And to be honest... If we are going to tear down buildings and leave surface lots/mud pits for several years....  Let's restore some green-space---so contrasting from the past. Let's re-introduce a part of Cleveland's NATURAL heritage...Plant some Cottonwoods, Sycamores, Birches instead of the repeated CRAP Apple trees.... Some areas where wild meadow grasses and colorful native flowers are planted that will provide a colorful scheme all year round....  Some walk ways.... etc.. maybe intertwined with small places to eat... I think that once people would see just how nice and refreshing that can be..... They just may trade it in for the typical repeated scene of bars, shops, and concrete, and even the wonderful Flats east Bank! What revenue does this bring in? Many tax paying stake holders who will want to live here because of such amenities. (kind of like Portland) In the meanwhile, it would be better than emptiness. I will try to find a picture to illustrate this vision that challenges the archaic notion that a piece of land left natural is worthless. In a city that has all but murdered its riverbanks and shoreline for years.... Maybe we can do a complete 360 and wow the world with the changes alone! Couldn't hurt the image can it!

^ Some good points. There were some good old buildings removed..... The bar only scene was destined to wear thin. I predicted that in 1988 when I was going there every weekend. And to be honest... If we are going to tear down buildings and leave surface lots/mud pits for several years....  Let's restore some green-space---so contrasting from the past. Let's re-introduce a part of Cleveland's NATURAL heritage...Plant some Cottonwoods, Sycamores, Birches instead of the repeated CRAP Apple trees.... Some areas where wild meadow grasses and colorful native flowers are planted that will provide a colorful scheme all year round....  Some walk ways.... etc.. maybe intertwined with small places to eat... I think that once people would see just how nice and refreshing that can be..... They just may trade it in for the typical repeated scene of bars, shops, and concrete, and even the wonderful Flats east Bank! What revenue does this bring in? Many tax paying stake holders who will want to live here because of such amenities. (kind of like Portland) In the meanwhile, it would be better than emptiness. I will try to find a picture to illustrate this vision that challenges the archaic notion that a piece of land left natural is worthless. In a city that has all but murdered its riverbanks and shoreline for years.... Maybe we can do a complete 360 and wow the world with the changes alone! Couldn't hurt the image can it!

 

You do an awful lot of predicting!  You mentioned that in the walmart thread and now you mention it in this thread.

 

Honey, what will the numbers be in tonight's PowerBall drawing?  Can you predict that??  PM with the numbers.  Thanks boo.

 

Back on topic......

well lets not forget that the Hustler, which was moved for the abandoned fake movie chain neighborhood, is  plugging along just great in an emerging urban neighborhood.  It is buzzing down there-yes folks there are shovels are in the dirt in Cleveland!  Ahhhh progress and great urban planning. I hope Jackson and Cimperman remind voters this  move in their election commercials. I know it sure sells urban living in the Cleve!

I would like to correct myself from a previous post about "lack of dissent" to the demo and retract that statement.  I've been reading this war & peace thread on the FEB from recent posts backwards.  It looks like there were quite a few concerned posters (in 20's thread pages) about the total demo of all the historic buildings and concern over the generic approach Wolstein seemed to be taking.  (which really sums up my overly long tirades) That's really all us concerned citizens can do I guess.  I mean this is Wolstein's property, Wolstein's vision and Wolstein's mess.  He had all the marbles here.

 

As far as are local politico's - like Jackson and Cimperman.  These guys strike me as being so desperate for any business interest in CLE that they will do anything for any "plan".  Want to demo the entire east bank?  "OK SIR! we'll tape off the entire area for you and help you with any grants/funding needed.  Let us know if we can do anything else SIR." 

Want to film spiderman here?  "OK SIR!  We'll pave and then close off all of Euclid Ave. for you for 3 weeks.  Let us know if you need anything else SIR.  Thanks for choosing Cleveland"

 

Truly desperate or truly stupid on how to run a city.

There is plenty of dissent brewing on these boards--however the status-quo here is one of a collective "Sim-City Hooray".  I'm all for being positive--but there are times when you have to get down right mad, cynical, what have-you.  It's Cleveland.  That's a part of our personality.  You won't change that.

 

Back on topic,

 

It is probably short-sighted to blame Cimperman and Jackson alone.  If you remember, this whole Flat's East Bank fiasco started under Mike White's watch.  Sent the inspectors in and closed down profitable businesses over "electrical code violations", with no chances for the landlords or club owners to make good on the "violations."

 

In a few years, we can look back and blame Cimperman and Jackson if they fail to secure stimulus funds to prod this and other projects along.  I'm sure Wolstein would appreciate the public participation once more!  Why not have some Federal dollars push along putting streets down in that neighborhood where Old River Road was once packed with young, vibrant party-goers.  That would be a start.

I would like to correct myself from a previous post about "lack of dissent" to the demo and retract that statement.  I've been reading this war & peace thread on the FEB from recent posts backwards.  It looks like there were quite a few concerned posters (in 20's thread pages) about the total demo of all the historic buildings and concern over the generic approach Wolstein seemed to be taking.  That's really all us concerned citizens can do I guess.  I mean this is Wolstein's vision and Wolstein's mess.  He had all the marbles here.

 

As far as are local politico's - like Jackson and Cimperman.  These guys strike me as being so desperate for any business interest in CLE that they will do anything for any "plan".  Want to demo the entire east bank?  "OK SIR! we'll tape off the entire area for you and help you with any grants/funding needed.  Let us know if we can do anything else SIR." 

Want to film spiderman here?  "OK SIR!  We'll pave and then close off all of Euclid Ave. for you for 3 weeks.  Let us know if you need anything else SIR.  Thanks for choosing Cleveland"

 

Truly desperate or truly stupid on how to run a city.

 

And what exactly would you do?  Of course your plan will be well thought out & executed because you're the emperor and the only person to make a decision, be damned the political and financial climate.

 

It's so easy to critique others, but i'd like to ask.  What are you doing?  I'm not saying that to pounce, be mean or condescending.  However, I find it disingenuous for people to critique the mayor when you have no personal experience on how to run and manage a city.  Like the saying goes, "its easier said than done".

 

If you were a former Mayor - you would have some credibility - and you could give us an inside view on how politics works and how all the pieces come together to make a LARGE project like the FEB work.  You're entitled to your opinion, but I think I people need to take a step back and try to look at the bigger picture and realize that even the best Mayor in the best financial times can stumble.

 

If anyone here thinks they can run the city better, put your hat in the ring.  You've got time.

I think we're going to lock this up and let everyone simma down for a bit...

This thread will be unlocked so members can edit their posts.

I would like to correct myself from a previous post about "lack of dissent" to the demo and retract that statement. I've been reading this war & peace thread on the FEB from recent posts backwards. It looks like there were quite a few concerned posters (in 20's thread pages) about the total demo of all the historic buildings and concern over the generic approach Wolstein seemed to be taking. (which really sums up my overly long tirades) That's really all us concerned citizens can do I guess. I mean this is Wolstein's property, Wolstein's vision and Wolstein's mess. He had all the marbles here.

 

As far as are local politico's - like Jackson and Cimperman. These guys strike me as being so desperate for any business interest in CLE that they will do anything for any "plan". Want to demo the entire east bank? "OK SIR! we'll tape off the entire area for you and help you with any grants/funding needed. Let us know if we can do anything else SIR."

Want to film spiderman here? "OK SIR! We'll pave and then close off all of Euclid Ave. for you for 3 weeks. Let us know if you need anything else SIR. Thanks for choosing Cleveland"

 

Truly desperate or truly stupid on how to run a city.

 

Greyrat, you sum up my sentiments perfectly about this (now) debacle... The Roldo Bartimole's of this town have it right (and I'm no Roldo fan, believe me):  this was a naked money/power grab.  Sure, the late Bart Wolstein bought up this land, but there's always been sentiment (by Bart as executed by his son, Scot) to gut our great entertainment district to make bigger $$ from the big biz/higher income crowd.  I'm not saying the old Flats was perfect, but it could have been tinkered with and expanded/supplemented with offices, residences and hotels, not gutted!! 

 

Looking back on it, as frustrated as I was for Wolstein to start building, many of the owners adjacent in the "footprint" had every right to fight Wolstein utilizing government to realize is own private financial gain, irrespective of the reckless Fed Court case (Norwalk, CT?) allowing owners to do this.  So in the end, we've had our Flats Entertainment district gutted while the owner who caused it is looking to get paid any way he can.  It's this kind of greed and selfishness that's caused Cleveland development downtown to largely stall.

^ Kelo v. City of New London

 

cf: Norwood, Ohio v. Horney

The "Cool Cleveland" weekly newsletter of today features a piece about FEB, which you can find here: http://www.coolcleveland.com/index.php?n=Main.Visionquest2 .  Mostly regurgitated info (and some debatable opinions), but, generally speaking, it's not a bad thing to (re)create a bit of buzz around this project.

^I think the author has to be realistic about his goals.

 

1. Sure, developing the port land BEFORE FEB would be ideal... but it is not realistic.... unless we want to wait until I qualify for social security to build the flats back up.

 

2. This whole blue river concept is not realistic either.  Someone can correct me if I am wrong, but I do not believe the Cuyahoga, no matter how "clean", will ever be "blue".  The Chicago River has the advantage of flowing in from the lake, making the water look blue.  The Cuyahoga's water travels towards the lake and picks up all the river sludge along the way.

 

3. River Road properties will become appealing only AFTER the FEB is built and can be called a success.

The blog also fails to mention that we are in some sh!tty times, with banks across the country not lending towards construction projects nationwide.  This isn't just happening in Ohio.  The bad part of the whole situation is the fact that if Wolstein could have payed off the former property owners INSTEAD of dragging everyone through eminent domain, he would have had enough time to get construction started BEFORE the banks stopped lending.  Now we're stuck with an empty east bank which may not be developed in the near-term.  I don't see his lease agreements holding up either... to my understanding it was all or nothing for this project.

 

I hate to even think of this, but I really hope that this project does not go the way of the Scranton Peninsula, which was planned for development in the 80s.  Talk about valuable land sitting vacant...

 

And yep, Chicago changed the direction of it's river flow a long time ago.  Doing the same for the Cuyahoga would do little, as the Cuyahoga does not connect to any other river system.  I believe the Chicago River eventually finds it's way to the Mississippi, carrying all of Chicago's waste (and other large metro areas waste as well) to Louisiana.  Our river is a sandy color due to all of the run-off of sediments upstream, which has accelerated because of surface parking lots, sprawl, etc.  We can forget about actually having a "blue" river... I love my Cuyahoga anyways.

 

 

 

 

On reversing the river - There's a significant elevation change as you go from Cleveland to Akron. Chicago is mostly flat, so you can more easily reverse the flow of a river.

 

But you can't make a river run uphill.

New renderings of Flats East Bank project - P.D. article on 9/9/9

 

Participants in a waterfront tour hosted by Cleveland Mayor Frank Jackson got a glimpse of a few updated renderings of the Flats East Bank project tonight .... see rest of article and a few nice pics here: http://blog.cleveland.com/cribnotes/2009/09/new_renderings_of_flats_east_b.html

Well, it would be nice to have open/green space than leaving it all exposed dirt... It will look respectable until the housing can be done.