Because of being too young, and then leaving for college my waning memories of the flats are stabbings, and drunks drowning in the river followed by fencing off the river, and bars getting shut down or closing outright. So rose colored glasses maybe?

 

Which make your glasses brown colored thanks to three stabbings and two drownings. There were the other millions of revelers of the course of the years who lived to see another day after a night of partying. I think the truth lies somewhere in between--but wish the city would have focused on cleaning up and improving what was there. The natural spot for a casino would have been in the midst of all that. Had we done so, I think business travellers would have started to look to Cleveland as a convention destination.

 

The business owners who ran the bars in the flats were just as responsible for what happened down there as the city, cops and patrons. It didn't evolve. Was there any kind of Flats owner association back in the day or did they all pretty much do what they wanted?

Folks - whatever the case, if you want to start a "How the City/Owners/Cops/Smurfs Ruined the Flats" thread in City Discussions, by all means. But this thread doesn't need to be a catch-all for waxing nostalgic or conspiracy theories. Thanks.

Oops my bad, no more tinfoil hats (unless we are talking about the Browns) monday morning brain fart.

 

On topic, I was talking to somebody who does commercial construction at a party this weekend and he confirmed that Wolstein is going fullsteam on at least the office tower. That was good to hear. He hadn't heard anything else on the loneger term mixed-use components.

City Council press release......

 

September 21, 2009

 

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE:

 

Council to be briefed on Flats East Bank Project

 

WHO:            Cleveland City Council’s Community and Economic Development Committee

Chris Warren, City of Cleveland Chief of Regional Development

Tracy Nichols, City of Cleveland Economic Development Director

Steve Strnisha and Adam Fishman, Flats East Bank Project

 

WHAT:        A briefing in the revised Flats East Bank Project, including the project’s revisions and legislative schedule

 

WHEN:        Tuesday, September 22, 2009 at 9:30 am

 

WHERE:      Cleveland City Council’s Committee Room

i never really bought that all of ebf would go up at once, but i am very glad to hear that such a big piece is finally moving forward. with the offices and the park a go it will most certainly attract residential and the rest. an aquarium bonus would sure be great wouldn't it?

 

yeah, im still grumbling that the original rockefeller warehouse and kindlers bar were torn down, but we gotta move on now -- wow, at long last the new east bank flats is almost underway.  :clap:

 

 

Clearly not the right spot for discussion here, but on the list of major impending Cleveland projects, what about the Innerbelt Bridge and reconstruction?  The bridge itself is $400M and will probably be the most visible construction project in town (somewhat unfortunately, because of traffic delays...). 

Clearly not the right spot for discussion here,

Clearly.

but on the list of major impending Cleveland projects, what about the Innerbelt Bridge and reconstruction?  The bridge itself is $400M and will probably be the most visible construction project in town (somewhat unfortunately, because of traffic delays...). 

We have discussed the innerbelt quite extensively, though currently the thread is lost in the great abyss of quarantined threads due to containing articles posted directly from newspapers. If you have anything to add to the discussion you can either: wait a little while till the Mods finish cleaning out the innerbelt thread, beg really nicely from one of the Mods to get them to work on it faster, or create your own thread within the highways forum and it will get merged with the old thread at some future date.

FYI: two items were on Friday's design-review agenda......

 

http://planning.city.cleveland.oh.us/designreview/drcagenda/2009/100209/index.php

 

Ordinance No. 1384-09 (Ward 13/Cimperman):  Designating the City of Cleveland as a recovery zone under Section 1400U-1 of the Internal Revenue Code for the purpose of issuing recovery zone economic development bonds or recovery zone facility bonds and allocating the City’s recovery zone facility bonds volume cap limitation to finance a portion of the costs of constructing the Flats East Development Project.

 

Ordinance No. 1383-09 (Ward 13/Cimperman):  Authorizing the Director of Economic Development to apply for and accept a HUD 108 loan from the United States Department of Housing and Urban Development; to appropriate the funds; and authorizing the Director to enter into one or more contracts with Flats East Development LLC to provide economic development assistance to partially finance the Flats East development located at the mouth of the Cuyahoga River on Lake Erie and other associated costs necessary to redevelop the property.

Also if you go to the website http://www.flatseast.com it has been stripped down bigtime with what looks to be an updated rendering.

It's apparent that the office tower would be built on the site of what was proposed to be Lighthouse Landing. The huge greenspace appears to be attempt to pretty-up the demolished Flats East Bank nightclub area instead of letting its rubble remain there until that area can be developed.

Also if you go to the website http://www.flatseast.com it has been stripped down bigtime with what looks to be an updated rendering.

 

I know that artists' renderings can be very misleading, but as such, this is very uninspiring.

I do like the poop-makers shown, ....er, geese! If you're visiting, watch where you step!

As a WHD resident I really like the temporary greenspace... so long as it is temporary!  I know my dog would love playing fetch on all that grass!  And can you think of a better place to watch the fireworks on the 4th?

Downtown Cleveland severely lacks a needed green space such as London or Sydney's Hyde Park. As I posted much earlier, I think when people get a taste of having quality laid out greenspace with some signature "Cleveland natural heritage trees" amidst the concrete jungle, they will grow to really appreciate what they've been missing out on.

 

'Natural' in the city never goes out of style, is up and coming, and is never enough. Imagine a river that has seen the last 200 years of its banks and riparian zones being abused, reverting to something much more sustainable and green, implemented carefully with developments. What a contrast example of a turn-around message that will send to even the most ardent of "Isn't that these place where the river caught fire?" jokers.

 

Albeit, I don't think this space will be designed with longevity in mind. I think it will simply be a sterile mono-culture field of lifeless suburban chemically dependent style turf grass. But if people could see what they could have--something that is meticulously well planned---and how such a space could be designed, I'll make a safe bet that 90% of the people would favor keeping it green. There is really no picture to chose from though--But I will make reference to The Royal Botanical Gardens in Sydney. Priceless! Just do a Google map over their harbor and see them right near the Opera House.  Absolutely stunning!

 

Some people really do not know what they're missing out on...while other cities who boast this attribute, bask in the glory of praise by all who experience it as it adds investment attraction and value. Better than "Your river stinks and burned!"

 

As a WHD resident I really like the temporary greenspace... so long as it is temporary!

 

The trees in the rendering kind of scare me as not being very temporary.

I do like the poop-makers shown, ....er, geese! If you're visiting, watch where you step!

 

You sound like my dad!  LOL    He claims he going into the "down feather" business when they lose their flight feathers, since they congregate around shaker lakes. 

Notice that the office tower in this first phase is 6-8 stories shorter than what was previously planned... thanks to the financial crisis.  Though we've debated on this forum the importance of street-level interactions, it would have been nice to see a new structure of some greater height being built.

Also if you go to the website http://www.flatseast.com it has been stripped down bigtime with what looks to be an updated rendering.

 

I'd be interested to see the back of that building and how it connects with West 9th Street.  I believe there's a parking lot there.  Will that remain or be an east entrance to the building?

Cleveland's City Council approves huge financial package to help revive Flats east bank project

By Henry J. Gomez, The Plain Dealer

October 05, 2009, 6:34PM

 

With Michelle Jarboe

 

Cleveland’s City Council threw a life raft Monday to private developers hoping to tackle a major real estate project along the east bank of the Flats.

 

Council members approved a substantial financial package, including a $30 million loan, that Mayor Frank Jackson proposed last month as part of city and state efforts to revive the recession-stalled plans. A $270 million first phase is to be anchored by a new office building to house the Ernst & Young accounting firm and the Tucker Ellis & West law firm.

 

http://blog.cleveland.com/metro/2009/10/clevelands_city_council_approv.html

Notice that the office tower in this first phase is 6-8 stories shorter than what was previously planned... thanks to the financial crisis. Though we've debated on this forum the importance of street-level interactions, it would have been nice to see a new structure of some greater height being built.

 

My old site plan shows a 20 story building, and I estimate about 20 stories on the current rendering-it's hard to tell what's happening when it goes behind the other building.

Seems about the same height to me.

^You're probably right... I just remember (or probably wanted to see) something larger on that site ;) . 

Also if you go to the website http://www.flatseast.com it has been stripped down bigtime with what looks to be an updated rendering.

 

I know that artists' renderings can be very misleading, but as such, this is very uninspiring.

 

Looks like a rendering from the 1950's

Also if you go to the website http://www.flatseast.com it has been stripped down bigtime with what looks to be an updated rendering.

 

I know that artists' renderings can be very misleading, but as such, this is very uninspiring.

 

Looks like a rendering from the 1950's

 

No it doesn't.  Honestly I like it, on paper.

A horrible rendering.  That is fact.

A horrible rendering.  That is fact.

 

You and are you professional opinion!  :P  he he he  ;)

Strickland announces $1 million for Cleveland investments

 

"We are making strategic investments in Ohio communities and businesses to retain jobs and to advance urban redevelopment efforts," Strickland said.

 

Flats East Development LLC will receive a $1 million Rapid Outreach Grant for the costs associated with building construction in support of the company's redevelopment project in the City of Cleveland (Cuyahoga County).

 

MORE AT http://www.wkyc.com/news/state/ohio/news_article.aspx?storyid=124607&catid=23

 

Enough talk. Let's start building!

Construction doesn't start because there's been enough talk, it starts because there's enough money.

I know, but I've seen so much news of huge federal and state loans that this project has been receiving that it seems like they should have enough to at least start on something. But maybe I'm just too impatient.

I've driven by and they're doing a substantial amount of excavation all over the site; I'm pretty sure that's only for the infrastructure improvements for now.

You drove?

I know, but I've seen so much news of huge federal and state loans that this project has been receiving that it seems like they should have enough to at least start on something. But maybe I'm just too impatient.

 

patience grasshopper.  i believe total of grants and loans is about $54m, and the initial phase of the development is in the $250-270m range.  As has been reported, they expect to have everything in order to begin by around the first of the year.

I know, but I've seen so much news of huge federal and state loans that this project has been receiving that it seems like they should have enough to at least start on something. But maybe I'm just too impatient.

 

patience grasshopper. i believe total of grants and loans is about $54m, and the initial phase of the development is in the $250-270m range. As has been reported, they expect to have everything in order to begin by around the first of the year.

 

yayay!! i really hope construction will start that early. And even if this get put off, the casino construction should keep me occupied. (i guess i really like the site of construction downtown)

in the meantime, i'm glad to hear they are working on continual infrastructure improvements around there. very good of the city for now!

 

I know the tower bids next Friday, November 13 for general trades.  It was supposed to go tommorow morning but was extended 1 week. It has been advertised as 23 stories, 18 floor office tower ontop of 3 story parking and 2 story penthouse for mechancial features.  CM was chosen a little while back.  All in all, it is very much alive and really close to going up. 

 

Also, the hotel bids next Friday, and is advertised as 8 stories with the first 3 floors as retail.  150 hotel rooms.

^CM--what does that mean?

construction manager.

I know the tower bids next Friday, November 13 for general trades. It was supposed to go tommorow morning but was extended 1 week. It has been advertised as 23 stories, 18 floor office tower ontop of 3 story parking and 2 story penthouse for mechancial features. CM was chosen a little while back. All in all, it is very much alive and really close to going up.

 

Also, the hotel bids next Friday, and is advertised as 8 stories with the first 3 floors as retail. 150 hotel rooms.

 

Gee, couldn't they just put the hotel on top of the office building and get a 31-story tower?   :-P

 

In all seriousness, I'm very glad to read this development. Hopefully it will spur more, especially on the Weston-owned properties in the Warehouse District.

I know the tower bids next Friday, November 13 for general trades. It was supposed to go tommorow morning but was extended 1 week. It has been advertised as 23 stories, 18 floor office tower ontop of 3 story parking and 2 story penthouse for mechancial features. CM was chosen a little while back. All in all, it is very much alive and really close to going up.

 

Also, the hotel bids next Friday, and is advertised as 8 stories with the first 3 floors as retail. 150 hotel rooms.

 

Is the new CM on the project Gilbane?  I know originally it was Marous Bros, but Wohlstein parted ways with them for whatever reason.  It'll be interesting to see what local contractors bid on & get the work.

Glad to see this moving, but one concern...I hope this added 'retail' doesn't make it even harder to fill existing space downtown.... Or, I hope it does not lure existing business out of existing places to locate in the new. That would be a kind of 'sprawl contained within downtown' scenario. Such will never have the appeal of a Euclid shopping area.

Ernst & Young gets major tax break in move to east bank of the Flats

By Michelle Jarboe, The Plain Dealer

December 07, 2009, 6:18PM

 

CLEVELAND, Ohio -- The state is awarding a major tax break to Ernst & Young, which plans to move its Cleveland offices from East Ninth Street to the east bank of the Flats.

 

The Ohio Tax Credit Authority on Monday approved a 75 percent, 10-year tax credit for the accounting firm, for moving 625 employees to a planned office tower in the Flats East Bank project. The state said the tax credit, of up to $16.5 million over a decade, is a major factor in Ernst & Young's decision to stay in Ohio.

 

MORE AT http://www.cleveland.com/business/index.ssf/2009/12/ernst_young_gets_major_tax_bre.html

... and the relevant development information from the article.

 

The first phase, a $270-million to $300-million project, also will include a 150-room hotel, a parking garage, a health club, restaurants and a park. Construction could start in the spring.

 

Considering the scope/shape of Phase 1, combined with the chance that future phases will not be built anytime soon, if ever, I really hope that care is taken to incorporate Phase 1 with the WHD as opposed to creating a separate mini-neighborhood.

Im glad to hear some kind of news on this.  with the casino, mm (assuming that it ever happens) and this, that has to be over $1.3 billion in major construction happening at the same time.  not too bad.

I've heard that they've secured all their financing and that they'll make the announcement sometime this week.

I'll wait until I see a tower crane putting something together on this one ;-)

Dude, its only been talk about for 5 years come this Saturday, ya doubting Thomas :)

 

http://www.cleveland.com/business/plaindealer/index.ssf?/base/business/1102761172230871.xml

 

Developer of $170 million Flats project wants Cleveland to chip in for fix-up

Sunday, December 12, 2004

Corwin Thomas

Plain Dealer Columnist

 

Recently filed requests for public money to assist in the financing of a $170 million mixed-use development on the east bank of the Flats have revealed additional details of the proposal.

 

According to the 2005 State Capital Budget Requests, Scott Wolstein, who owns a majority of the land and is the developer behind the project, wants Cleveland to contribute $20 million over several years for infrastructure improvements - including new and reconfigured streets and sidewalks, utility relocation and reconstruction, and construction of a new, publicly owned riverfront boardwalk.

 

The state has already set aside $3 million for the project.

 

Wolstein declined to comment.

.........

Dude, its only been talk about for 5 years come this Saturday, ya doubting Thomas :)

 

http://www.cleveland.com/business/plaindealer/index.ssf?/base/business/1102761172230871.xml

 

Developer of $170 million Flats project wants Cleveland to chip in for fix-up

Sunday, December 12, 2004

Corwin Thomas

Plain Dealer Columnist

 

Recently filed requests for public money to assist in the financing of a $170 million mixed-use development on the east bank of the Flats have revealed additional details of the proposal.

 

According to the 2005 State Capital Budget Requests, Scott Wolstein, who owns a majority of the land and is the developer behind the project, wants Cleveland to contribute $20 million over several years for infrastructure improvements - including new and reconfigured streets and sidewalks, utility relocation and reconstruction, and construction of a new, publicly owned riverfront boardwalk.

 

The state has already set aside $3 million for the project.

 

Wolstein declined to comment.

.........

 

Well, I'm having trouble finding a snail smiley, but :insert snail smiley here:

Nothing new except some sad reminders and some pretty sketches....

 

http://www.cdfa.net/cdfa/cdfaweb.nsf/fbaad5956b2928b086256efa005c5f78/1076504cca054f5d862572f0006aa613/$FILE/Steve%20Strnisha%20-%20CDFA%20Flats%20AS%20May%202007.pdf

^ What is this? I clicked on it and not much but a reference to the flats and photo of the Sydney harbor.