You liked the Eaton bulding plan even though it would have cannibalized the CBD too? How is that any different than the FEB plan?

although I did like the plans for the Eaton building. 

 

That's grounds for a permanent banning.

 

I was never bonkers over the office building either, but it won't be as disconnected to the CBD as some of its critics would want you to believe.  It is on the edge of the urban fabric.  The Eaton 'campus', on the other hand, would have been disconnected.

 

And, not sure if you heard, but Calfee Halter is moving into the East Ohio Gas Building as an anchor tenant in a major renovation.  The Breuer Tower, to my understanding, can not be re-fitted for the Class-A space these tenants are seeking... they might as well stay at Huntington if Breuer was there other option.

 

My preference would have been for these two tenants (Ernst&Young and Tucker, Ellis) would have signed on to be anchor tenants in a new build on either the Jacobs lot on public square or the WHD parking lots.  Not that I am against the FEB.... but either of those two options would be better for the City IMHO.

 

 

So this project is dead now?

^No

^^?

ughhh... no, not dead. we just happen to be... you know.... in the middle of the biggest financial and lending meltdown in about 80 years.  Raising $50m for a project is hard.  Raising $270m is beyond incredibly difficult.  This project is not dead.  They do have "most" of the money.  And I am sure they are talking to anyone and everyone to try to close that final gap.  And while the $30-33/ foot they want to charge for the office tower is indeed high for cleveland, it is similar to Key Tower ($29 / foot), and they continue talking to tennants, from all over the place.  I have seen the financial breakdown of costs.  They are close, but not there.  Can we all take a valum now and wait for some real news?  Gracias ;)

Yeah I'd be incredibly surprised if this project died.  A lot of work has been put into it and they at least have most of the money. Calm down people.

Ok. Moore patience required..  Now, with a crystal ball, I will predict that by the time it starts, the river will be reclaimed by nature...perhaps some huge cottonwoods and sycamores stretching their branches until they meet each other in mid river forming sort of a tunnel. Dredging will prevent the reformation of flatland adjacent wetlands...  But if this happens it will look better than an open field of nothing but exposed soil!  :lol:

 

Seriously, from reading some of the posts, the whole project seems like its just playing musical chairs with existing business downtown. IOW, nothing really new coming in....rather, just a shifting around of current entities.

^

I believe that Ernst & Young was looking for a new building to move into, or else they would consider moving out of Cleveland. I may be wrong, but I think the deal that came with the building was that Ernst & Young had to add a certain amount of jobs within a certain period of time. So it's not exactly musical chairs when one of the players is threatening to leave completely if they don't get a new chair.

^^ The hotel is new.  Whatever re-use they put the Huntington building to will probably be new to downtown as well. 

flats east bank

Off-topic posts were deleted.

You liked the Eaton bulding plan even though it would have cannibalized the CBD too? How is that any different than the FEB plan?

 

It was low rise.  Also, better a low rise office building in the flats canabalizing the CBD rather than a low rise office building in the suburbs canabalizing the CBD. But high rise office building in the flasts canabalizing the CBD? That is going too far!

although I did like the plans for the Eaton building.

 

That's grounds for a permanent banning.

 

I was never bonkers over the office building either, but it won't be as disconnected to the CBD as some of its critics would want you to believe. It is on the edge of the urban fabric. The Eaton 'campus', on the other hand, would have been disconnected.

 

And, not sure if you heard, but Calfee Halter is moving into the East Ohio Gas Building as an anchor tenant in a major renovation. The Breuer Tower, to my understanding, can not be re-fitted for the Class-A space these tenants are seeking... they might as well stay at Huntington if Breuer was there other option.

 

My preference would have been for these two tenants (Ernst&Young and Tucker, Ellis) would have signed on to be anchor tenants in a new build on either the Jacobs lot on public square or the WHD parking lots. Not that I am against the FEB.... but either of those two options would be better for the City IMHO.

 

 

 

I am talking about the newer older East Ohio Gas Bldg.  21 floors.  Tried to get a job there once from  a law firm on the 21st floor, failed.  But, the view of Erieview tower was great!

^

I believe that Ernst & Young was looking for a new building to move into, or else they would consider moving out of Cleveland. I may be wrong, but I think the deal that came with the building was that Ernst & Young had to add a certain amount of jobs within a certain period of time. So it's not exactly musical chairs when one of the players is threatening to leave completely if they don't get a new chair.

 

When did they "threaten" to move?

^

I believe that Ernst & Young was looking for a new building to move into, or else they would consider moving out of Cleveland. I may be wrong, but I think the deal that came with the building was that Ernst & Young had to add a certain amount of jobs within a certain period of time. So it's not exactly musical chairs when one of the players is threatening to leave completely if they don't get a new chair.

 

When did they "threaten" to move?

Like I said, I may be wrong but I thought that Ernst & Young was thinking about moving.

If I were Mayor, I would propose an ordinance that until such land is actually built upon...(meaning sitting 12 or more months of nothing) that it be put to some sort of very basic park-like pedestrian use in the meanwhile....and that if there is a surface lot anywhere, it meet with guidelines on adding a pedestrian element...some trees, benches, planters and walkways. Then I would find a way to implement a team that would make sure the areas get maintained. Maybe then there wouldn't be such rush to make the surface lots to begin with. I am not a politician though... so most interesting ideas in this world go by the way side or fall short of funding.But this above idea is actually not uncommon.

I think the process of the government taking over private land, even temporarily, is called eminent domain.

^

I believe that Ernst & Young was looking for a new building to move into, or else they would consider moving out of Cleveland. I may be wrong, but I think the deal that came with the building was that Ernst & Young had to add a certain amount of jobs within a certain period of time. So it's not exactly musical chairs when one of the players is threatening to leave completely if they don't get a new chair.

 

When did they "threaten" to move?

Like I said, I may be wrong but I thought that Ernst & Young was thinking about moving.

 

Not that I recall.  IIRC, they needed to move to a building/space, in Cleveland, that would allow them to grow.

<i>If I were Mayor, I would propose an ordinance that until such land is actually built upon...(meaning sitting 12 or more months of nothing) that it be put to some sort of very basic park-like pedestrian use in the meanwhile....and that if there is a surface lot anywhere, it meet with guidelines on adding a pedestrian element...some trees, benches, planters and walkways.</i>

 

To do something like this, one would need to demonstrate that the property is a nuisance, which is why one typically doesn't (or shouldn't) see unfenced construction pits or wide-open abandoned homes. An unattractive lot is fairly low on the priority list compared to real nuisances around the city. However, the Urban Design Center's Pop-Up City work and Redesigning Cleveland Pattern Book has been quite helpful in showing what can voluntarily be done in the meantime.

I'm guessing it was because of the need for the comprehensive utility rebuild, but I'm slightly annoyed that we lost some historic buildings/flats atmosphere for what is likely to be merely a heavily subsidized office building filled with relocating downtown tenants and a hotel for several years.  I know the crash is the reason, but it's still annoying.

^

I believe that Ernst & Young was looking for a new building to move into, or else they would consider moving out of Cleveland. I may be wrong, but I think the deal that came with the building was that Ernst & Young had to add a certain amount of jobs within a certain period of time. So it's not exactly musical chairs when one of the players is threatening to leave completely if they don't get a new chair.

 

When did they "threaten" to move?

Like I said, I may be wrong but I thought that Ernst & Young was thinking about moving.

 

They were not going anywhere.  The % of Big 4 Audit firms with offices outside of the CBD is likely in the <1% range.

I think the process of the government taking over private land, even temporarily, is called eminent domain.

 

You mean how this project acquired land? What I proposed...I call it a wise and progressive ordinance that would not have such a wide open space looking like an embarrassment.

Noted.

 

Now, back on to the discussion of Scott Wolstien's FEB project

some good news in crains online today about the FEB.  sorry I couldn't post the article.

I saw the headline in my e-mail. Can you summarize the story without direct quotations?

 

EDIT: The headline, which is not subscriber-only material, is:

 

Financing may be in place soon to restart stalled Ernst & Young Tower at Flats East Bank

you can google the headline and then read the article.  Always amazed that this works when you cannot access article on Crains site when not a paid subscriber.

<P><A href="http://www.crainscleveland.com/article/20101022/SUB1/101029922">http://www.crainscleveland.com/article/20101022/SUB1/101029922</A></P>

<P>Financing may be in place soon to restart stalled Ernst & Young Tower at Flats East Bank </P>

<P>By STAN BULLARD<BR>3:00 pm, October 22, 2010 </P>

<P>Financing may be in place soon to restart the long-stalled Ernst & Young Tower and the rest of the downsized, $275 million Flats East Bank Neighborhood in downtown Cleveland.<BR> <BR>Adam Fishman, a principal of Fairmount Properties, said, “We're barreling now toward a closing” of a multifaceted financing plan Wolstein Group, Fairmount and state and local governments are piecing together to fund the project.</P>

^nice. thanks!

you can google the headline and then read the article. Always amazed that this works when you cannot access article on Crains site when not a paid subscriber.

 

Awesome. People like you are my heroes.

Sweeeeeeet!  Thanks for the info!

FROM THE ARTICLE: "34 different lending sources" and we wonder why the process is so delayed....i had a hard enough time with my house and that was ONE source

This is great news!

 

This project shows how the credit markets are still frozen even after 2 years.  There are two major tenants for the office building and an operator for the hotel and they still had problems getting financing.

And the reputable backing from a couple of industry stalwarts

Points of interest from the article:

 

- Financing could be in place soon for the new Ernst and Young building and the rest of the $275 million East Bank of the Flats project.

 

- The money is coming from a lot of different sources: Wolstein Group, Fairmount Properties, state, local, private, etc...  However, it's still challenging and there's still a lot of "pushing and shoving" going on.  As people have stated here before, it's hard to get a $275 million loan these days.

 

- The announcement was made Thursday night at Shooters at a trade group seminar for real estate developers and other vendors.

 

- The article recapped the East bank history: buildings were demolished but work suddenly stopped in October 2008 (geez, it's been two years?) due to the national credit crisis.  Before that, lenders were willing to give the project $120 million.  After - just $44 million.

 

- Iris Wolstein pledged another $10 million and they decided to do the project in phases, instead of all at once.  Then they started the process of trying to get more money from different sources.

 

- First phase: 450,000 sq. ft. office tower (first new one downtown in almost 20 years), 150 room hotel, retail, and restaurant complex, along with a parking garage and riverfront redevelopment. 

 

- Second phase:  Residential and retail.  This will be greenspace until the market recovers.

 

- It was hoped the project would restart this summer.  But even with Cleveland City Council revising some elements of their financial incentives, every still failed to close.  It's a tough financial market out there.

Good to know something is happening. Tired of looking at Flats "Least Blank"

Nice. At 450k, it would be about the size of Fifth Third/PNC buildings. Any idea what it will look like?

This is from last January.  It's the same one that's on the Flats East Bank project website, though the site's been downgraded from what it used to be.

 

http://www.urbanohio.com/forum2/index.php/topic,1823.msg453749.html#msg453749

Was happy to read this in Crain's today.  Hopefully the project finally announces a breaking ground date soon.

For what its worth, I heard the other day that an announcement for this project is "imminent".  I don't know if that means days, weeks, or a couple months... but the day everyone has been waiting for is coming soon.

I feel like we have had a couple of those days with this project... only to be disappointed a few months later.  Let's just hope this "announcement" is not that they are hacking off the hotel from Phase I.

I feel like we have had a couple of those days with this project... only to be disappointed a few months later. Let's just hope this "announcement" is not that they are hacking off the hotel from Phase I.

 

Ditto

given the source... don't think its an issue.

But what is the general topic of the announcement?  Financing secured?  Groundbreaking date?  Both?

sounds like it... though I guess we'll see.

I'm remaining optimistic about this project. I think they're going to announce groundbreaking.

I am looking forward to something getting started also.  Not much input, but wanted to be the 3000th post on this topic  :-D

Hopefully once they break ground, construction can go as smoothly and fast as this :lol:

 

http://news.yahoo.com/s/yblog_upshot/20101112/bs_yblog_upshot/chinese-workers-build-15-story-hotel-in-just-six-days

Some actual news!

 

CB Richard Ellis plans move to Flats East Bank project as developers hurry to close financing

http://www.cleveland.com/business/index.ssf/2010/11/cb_richard_ellis_plans_move_to.html

More:

 

Wednesday November 17, 2010   

Home 

 

Port Authority OKs financing package for Cleveland's Flats East Bank neighborhood

By JAY MILLER

2:16 pm, November 17, 2010

 

With the help of large amounts of equity from members of the Wolstein family, the financing for the $275 million Flats East Bank development is set to close by the end of the year.

 

http://www.crainscleveland.com/article/20101117/FREE/101119700