I've periodically checked both webcams - http://www.flatseast.com/webcam  &  http://www.earthcam.com/flatseastbank and they both seem to be "stuck" on January 10th & 11th???

as the hotel and office bldg are finishing up, does anyone know exactly what the next structure to be built will be?

 

or will it be a various group of things all at once (ie., full on phase II)?

 

I'm not a country fan either and questioned the marketing which led Toby Keiths to the FEB in Cleveland...  howEVAH, after talking to people in the know, the big draw of this chain is the high caliber of live bands that performs nightly.  Local stars, up & coming hot new acts, and some mainstream stars will regularly be performing.  Should be interesting to say the least.

 

I work in the business, and I can tell you that Cleveland is a HUGE country market.  WGAR consistently ranks amongst the top country outlets in the country.  And for all the naysayers worrying about country fans coming coming downtown, the ONLY stadium shows at Browns Stadium in the last decade have been....country shows.  50,000 fans at a time! 

 

With this being said, I'm not a country fan (at least "new country" populated by three cords and tight wranglers).  Give me Cash and Haggard and day.  But I agree with the assertion that Toby Keiths will bring people not inclined to do so downtown.  Especially if there is live music involved. 

Toured the faculties, mainly the Aloft hotel and WXYZ Lounge, last week and was quite impressed.  The view from the lounge/lobby deck toward the river is very nice.  Can't wait when Phase II components begin rising in the empty space, especially current E & Y surface parking by the Rapid tracks, disappears.

 

Quick Aside: if any UOer visits/has visted an Aloft room of a visitor or decides to stay over her/himself, I'd be interested in your impression.  Most of the few, early reviews on hotel websites from guests are favorable, though a number claim the rumbling and noise from the NS railroad corridor is distracting, with one guy saying it felt like "an earthquake" while in bed.  Is this true?

 

Toured the faculties, mainly the Aloft hotel and WXYZ Lounge, last week and was quite impressed.  The view from the lounge/lobby deck toward the river is very nice.  Can't wait when Phase II components begin rising in the empty space, especially current E & Y surface parking by the Rapid tracks, disappears.

 

Quick Aside: if any UOer visits/has visted an Aloft room of a visitor or decides to stay over her/himself, I'd be interested in your impression.  Most of the few, early reviews on hotel websites from guests are favorable, though a number claim the rumbling and noise from the NS railroad corridor is distracting, with one guy saying it felt like "an earthquake" while in bed.  Is this true?

 

 

I'll bet a parking deck appears relatively quickly between the hotel and the railroad tracks! BTW, those tracks see about 80 trains a day, and for those who haven't lived near railroads, it can be a strange experience.

LOL!  The reappearance of these old posts that I somehow missed is tempting indeed, but I shall pass.  :evil:

Attended a ULI seminar last night, festivities kicked off at the roof deck of the E&Y tower.  I have some amazing photos (from an iphone) if someone wants to host them.  Adam Fishman of Fairmount spoke extensively about future plans for the area.  There is a lot of interest in the development, they are moving ahead with residential and entertainment, seriously looking at another smaller office tower too.

Cuyahoga Makes First Casino Revenue Awards for Downtown

Conversion of East Ohio Gas Building, and Flats East Bank Phase II Awarded Casino Revenue Funds

 

 

Additionally, Flats East Bank will receive another $1.5 million loan to complete Phase II of the Flats Residential Tower.  With a total project costs nearing $130 million, the completed project will include over 200 market rate apartments, and new retail and dining options along Cleveland’s lakefront.

 

“Cuyahoga County is supporting our long and highly-focused effort to make all of Greater Cleveland proud of the Flats East Bank,” says Adam Fishman of Flats East Bank. “This unique project will result in a new waterfront neighborhood that will be eclectic, fun, and visually stimulating,” says Fishman.

 

http://executive.cuyahogacounty.us/en-US/20130711-PR-Casino.aspx

Fitzgerald quote:  "Downtown is the county’s number one job center. 75% of downtown workers bring a paycheck home to a residence outside the City of Cleveland; concentrating strategic investments downtown reinforces downtown’s growth and strengthens the entire county.”

 

Love it.

Flat's East Bank project banking on trio of restaurants -- the Willeyville, Lago, Ken Stewart's -- to kick start expansive riverfront revival

 

Three restaurants opening within days of one another is hardly news. Three restaurants opening side by side? A bit more interesting. Three restaurants, new from the ground up and possibly the vanguard of a new era for one of the city's oldest business areas? That's something else.

 

 

Rest of article:

 

http://www.cleveland.com/dining/index.ssf/2013/07/flats_east_bank_project_bankin.html#incart_river_default

This is a generally a very positive and comprehensive article.

 

However, I was a tad taken aback by the writer's concern, especially that FEB would somehow hurt other growing/thriving areas of downtown... And I take serious exception with his description of the Warehouse District as "troubled".  I think it's just a part of Clevelanders' DNA to look for problems and worry about hurting other areas as opposed to thinking, as I do, that yet another booming entertainment district helps everyone (remember, this is the same mentality that had our existing hotels for years fighting the large new convention-style hotel that we finally appear to be getting)... Yes, the WHD has had some rowdiness issues, notably with long-gone Lust a few years ago, but this image of the WHD as the "old Flats"(this PD writer didn't directly say so, but hinted it)is simplistic and way over the top.  Maybe there have been a few W. 6th issues, but they are no different and often less serious than entertainment bar districts in other cities' downtowns.

 

And it's more than ironic that the "mature/adult" crowd that moved up the hill to the more sophisticated WHD now  apparently (inferred by the PD) threatens to move back down the hill to the revamped, now-more sophisticated Flats a decade later... 

 

To me, I'm just thrilled that the new FEB is open and looks like a high-quality endeavor, and that there is positive momentum to get Phase II moving ... all in harmony with a revived Cleveland core... I'll leave the worried hand-wringing to the PD.

 

 

Maybe this is just my view as a non-clevelander, but the flats and the warehouse district are not that far apart. Everyone is treating these as two separate entertainment districts. I stayed at the Aloft and walked from there to W 6th Street. Its not that far. Rather than claiming this (FEB) to be the death of that (W6th), these two areas should be linked (with awesome artwork and lighting under the blue bridge) to create a much larger entertainment district. I feel like we are all living in the 90s thinking these two areas are inherently separate.

^Outstanding. 

 

 

Great concept- and I agree 100% that the city should not continue to treat the two districts as separate entities.   

I don't disagree--except that the powers that be and investors will probably try to keep it separate, just like when they moved up the hill from the east bank back in the day.    There is a value to them in "distinguishing" themselves from a less-than-desirable crowd.

I don't disagree--except that the powers that be and investors will probably try to keep it separate, just like when they moved up the hill from the east bank back in the day.    There is a value to them in "distinguishing" themselves from a less-than-desirable crowd.

 

Perhaps they see it that way, but IMO there's scant value in saying your new development is right next to a bad area.  I think W6th and FEB are in this together.

Maybe this is just my view as a non-clevelander, but the flats and the warehouse district are not that far apart. Everyone is treating these as two separate entertainment districts. I stayed at the Aloft and walked from there to W 6th Street. Its not that far. Rather than claiming this (FEB) to be the death of that (W6th), these two areas should be linked (with awesome artwork and lighting under the blue bridge) to create a much larger entertainment district. I feel like we are all living in the 90s thinking these two areas are inherently separate.

 

These are not "entertainment districts" they are distinct neighborhoods.  However, they are separate in name only.  The FEB is "connected" to the WHD and TCC.  The PD dropped the ball here.

 

Connectivity is something we in Cleveland are embracing and encourage.  The bridge lighting project is in the works and streetscape will continue throughout the buildout.

I don't disagree--except that the powers that be and investors will probably try to keep it separate, just like when they moved up the hill from the east bank back in the day.    There is a value to them in "distinguishing" themselves from a less-than-desirable crowd.

 

And even though it may be one big entertainment district in some sense, I think the grade separation, new construction, and river proximity will reinforce the developer's goal of defining a distinct area. The FEB folks will have no problem marketing it as the upscale, tamer end of it if they wish.

New set of images from the FEB Facebook page.

 

https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.651567941538218.1073741834.177488772279473&type=1

Attended a ULI seminar last night, festivities kicked off at the roof deck of the E&Y tower.  I have some amazing photos (from an iphone) if someone wants to host them.  Adam Fishman of Fairmount spoke extensively about future plans for the area.  There is a lot of interest in the development, they are moving ahead with residential and entertainment, seriously looking at another smaller office tower too.

 

Sounds great.  Any indication where they might place another office tower?

Has anyone found the final building height? I can't find it listed anywhere!

The E&Y office tower is now 90% leased and about 70% occupied.  Disappointed that CPP never started/finished the lighting project that was supposed to improve the aesthetics under the bridge where Lakeside & E. 9th connect.  It's dark down there even in the middle of day.

Disappointed that CPP never started/finished the lighting project that was supposed to improve the aesthetics under the bridge where Lakeside & E. 9th connect.  It's dark down there even in the middle of day.

 

maybe we should remove that elevated freeway?

Public Notice - Clean Ohio Program Application

 

The City of Cleveland, Department of Economic Development is applying for a $3 Million Clean Ohio Brownfield Fund grant to pay for environmental remediation and infrastructure improvements at the Flats East Development Phase 2 Property, located on portions of Old River Rd, W. 10 St, W. 11 St, Main Ave, and Front Ave in Cleveland. A public meeting to solicit comments on the grant application will be held at noon on September 23, 2013 at Cleveland City Hall, 601 Lakeside Ave, Room 514, Cleveland, 44114. The public is encouraged to attend. The application is available for review during business hours from August 7, 2013 until the public meeting at the Public Administration Library, Cleveland City Hall, Room 100. For more information contact David Ebersole at the City of Cleveland at (216) 664-2204.

 

 

 

The site currently requires an estimated $4 Million in remediation and infrastructure improvements in order to complete Phase 2. The City of Cleveland requests a Clean Ohio grant in the amount of $3 million to address these brownfield-related cleanup costs. On-site infrastructure investment, which will be privately or publicly funded and used as match for the Clean Ohio grant, requires installation of utilities, water lines, and stormwater management, and totals the bulk of the remaining required investment.

 

The development team has assembled a capital stack of over $170 million to construct Phase 2 and has begun the complicated process of refinancing and re-collateralizing the Phase 1 financing in order to close on Phase 2. The first mortgage commitments for Phase 2 total $111.4 million, personally guaranteed by the Wolsteins. The Wolsteins’ equity contribution now totals over $63 million, with $16.5 million additional equity

pledged to Phase 2

 

Redevelopment Goals - The Phase 2 plan calls for a 150,000 square foot office building, over 125,000 square feet of retail and restaurant space, a total of 250 residential rental units (approximately 72 units in the CORF area), and one-of-a-kind entertainment destinations, and outdoor gathering spaces. The developer began site assembly activities for this project in the 1990s and has long held the vision of transforming Cleveland’s riverfront into a unique urban destination and redefine Cleveland’s waterfront. Phase 2 includes Buildings 1, 8a, 8b, 10, 11, and portions of Buildings 2 and 4, shown on the proposed schematic below. The project commenced with the now-open Phase 1 development; Phase 2, located adjacent to Phase 1, is necessary to realize this visionary project.

Anticipated

 

Phase 2 retail space is already more than 50% leased with significant interest from local and national tenants.

Redevelopment Timeline - Phase 2 is scheduled to break ground in 2013. Complete build out is anticipated in 2Q 2015.

 

The link goes to a 5 page PDF which has more information, including additional info on phase 2.

 

http://portal.cleveland-oh.gov/clnd_images/PDF/ED/CleanOhioSummary.pdf

Great info on Phase 2! Thanks!

Thank you for information.  Hope the 2013 ground breaking for Phase 2 is true.

 

It really seems that it has taken a ton of work to get the $$ together for Phase 2 given the above, which leads me to believe that additional phases are way down the road.  Unforunately, that appears to mean that that hugh surface lot right in the heart of the development will be around for a good long time.  Really is a shame as it is a big disconnect.  But I guess we should look at the positive and be happy that phase 2 is a go and heap praise on the Wolsteins for all their hard work.

WoW great find. It's saying completion 24months from now. I can't get used to these recent quick timetables in Cleveland. Times and attitudes have surely changed.

Disappointed that CPP never started/finished the lighting project that was supposed to improve the aesthetics under the bridge where Lakeside & E. 9th connect.  It's dark down there even in the middle of day.

 

maybe we should remove that elevated freeway?

 

The Main Ave. Bridge was built in 1939 (twenty years earlier than the Innerbelt Bridge currently being replaced) and will definitely need to be torn down soon, despite several recent rounds of repairs. It has the same design as the I-35 bridge in Minneapolis that collapsed and ODOT has stated that replacement of the bridge will happen as soon as they can find the funds (of course).

 

I would love to see a Shoreway plan that restructures the road to have a much shorter, straighter route -- which would mean a cheaper, simpler bridge. (Plus likely a lot of land/airspace freed up in the Warehouse district and East Bank.)

 

The current West Shoreway rebuild plans don't address any of this. They only change the dangerous W 28th St. ramps onto and off of the bridge but otherwise ignore the bridge's impending end of life. Just too expensive to think about, I guess.

 

 

I hope they just decide to end the West Shoreway at West 25th with it branching in two directions. One you can continue on down a wider new main avenue which takes you to a lift bridge over the river and into the Flats East Bank. The second option would be to veer right onto Detroit Avenue and take the Detroit/Superior Bridge over the river and into Public Square.

 

This will never happen though.

I hope they just decide to end the West Shoreway at West 25th with it branching in two directions. One you can continue on down a wider new main avenue which takes you to a lift bridge over the river and into the Flats East Bank. The second option would be to veer right onto Detroit Avenue and take the Detroit/Superior Bridge over the river and into Public Square.

 

This will never happen though.

 

^ I'd sure love to see a fair cost-benefit analysis that addresses what the available options are.

I hope they just decide to end the West Shoreway at West 25th with it branching in two directions. One you can continue on down a wider new main avenue which takes you to a lift bridge over the river and into the Flats East Bank. The second option would be to veer right onto Detroit Avenue and take the Detroit/Superior Bridge over the river and into Public Square.

 

This will never happen though.

 

^ I'd sure love to see a fair cost-benefit analysis that addresses what the available options are.

 

Agreed.  Given the cost of replacing this high level bridge the cost may not be all that different between a new high level bridge and your option ClevelandOhio.  Plus with all of our turn of the century lift bridges in the flats, how cool would it be to see an iconic modern bridge down there as well.

Point of fact: The Main Ave (Route 2) Bridge is not of the same design as the collapsed I-35 Bridge in Minneapolis. 

People seem to be confusing the Main Ave Bridge Design with I-90.

The similar (to I-35) bridge design in Cleveland is the old I-90 Innerbelt Bridge, which is why there has been such a rush to replace it.

 

http://www.csuohio.edu/academic/success_in_math/posters/CSU/Cleveland_innerbelt.pdf

wasn't there a separate thread for all this bridge removal discussion?  The Flats East Bank thread should be for the Wohlstein developments

Thank you for information.  Hope the 2013 ground breaking for Phase 2 is true.

 

It really seems that it has taken a ton of work to get the $$ together for Phase 2 given the above, which leads me to believe that additional phases are way down the road.  Unforunately, that appears to mean that that hugh surface lot right in the heart of the development will be around for a good long time.  Really is a shame as it is a big disconnect.  But I guess we should look at the positive and be happy that phase 2 is a go and heap praise on the Wolsteins for all their hard work.

 

I was thinking the same thing.

 

I have been concerned about the difficulty with which Fairmount/Wolstein has had closing on Phase 2, even with Phase 1 open and, by most accounts (including my own), a success.  This project has taken 8 years since it was 1st announced in 2005 to get Phase 1 built, and Phase 2, has still not closed.  It seems this project has faced one obstacle after another.  Are Fishman/Wolstein up to the job?    Maybe they need to bring in Ari Maron who seems more adept at getting MRN's equally difficult projects DONE and done considerably quicker ... I was also deflated that the central retail aspect of FEB is NOT in Phase 2 and that, because of this, that big ol’ ugly surface lot in the middle will likely be around for a half decade, … at least, esp. since Phase 2 still isn’t locked down yet.  All aspects of this project, esp Phase 1 are very nice and a leap forward for downtown, including/especially the apartment units.  But without the retail/grocery/convenience/theatre that was planned for the central portion, this development will lack the essential elements of what truly makes a place a neighborhood…

 

wasn't there a separate thread for all this bridge removal discussion?  The Flats East Bank thread should be for the Wohlstein developments

 

Replacing the bridge with a river-level, pedestrian friendly lift bridge would do more for Wolstein's than anything since Mike White shut down the old FEB for him.  Think of the potential growth in aparatments and condos if residents could actually cross the river without going up and around on a high-level bridge.

^The quickest way to cross is actually the Columbus Road swingbridge.  I still think it would be ideal to see something river level at or near old Main Ave.

^The quickest way to cross is actually the Columbus Road swingbridge.  I still think it would be ideal to see something river level at or near old Main Ave.

 

Oops--I stand corrected.  But you get my drift.  Neighborhood connection connection connection.  Cleveland never gets this right.  I was considering a condo in Stonebridge, but ended up buying elsewhere because the neighborhood there is an island.  We need to get that connected!

^The quickest way to cross is actually the Columbus Road swingbridge.  I still think it would be ideal to see something river level at or near old Main Ave.

 

I think you mean Center Street swing Bridge...

And yes, a pedestrian friendly lift bridge where the old Main Avenue swing bridge was located would help not only the east bank, but offer direct access to the west bank/Jacobs property/Aquarium, extending the grasp of downtown in a lot of ways.

^ Oops, yes that's it.

You guys remember, was it a prominent Dutch urban planning firm that recommended the city replace all of these cool old bridges? Stupidest idea I've ever heard. The FEB has lost enough of its unique, historic character already. IMHO now is the time to start embracing and preserving the historic look and feel of whatever is left.

Replacing the bridge with a river-level, pedestrian friendly lift bridge would do more for Wolstein's than anything since Mike White shut down the old FEB for him.  Think of the potential growth in aparatments and condos if residents could actually cross the river without going up and around on a high-level bridge.

 

White's corruption allowed him to ignore the proliferation of mobbed-up, crime-ridden clubs in the Flats. That's what ruined it. Jane Campbell is who demolished the East Bank at Wolstein's request.

Thank you for information.  Hope the 2013 ground breaking for Phase 2 is true.

 

It really seems that it has taken a ton of work to get the $$ together for Phase 2 given the above, which leads me to believe that additional phases are way down the road.  Unforunately, that appears to mean that that hugh surface lot right in the heart of the development will be around for a good long time.  Really is a shame as it is a big disconnect.  But I guess we should look at the positive and be happy that phase 2 is a go and heap praise on the Wolsteins for all their hard work.

 

I agree too.  Don't get me wrong, extremely happy that Phase 2 is going ahead, but we have all these out buildings with huge parking lots separating them.  It will have a suburban feel until the development plan is completed.  I see they added the office building north of PHase 1, that wasn't originally planned.

 

 

Thank you for information.  Hope the 2013 ground breaking for Phase 2 is true.

 

It really seems that it has taken a ton of work to get the $$ together for Phase 2 given the above, which leads me to believe that additional phases are way down the road.  Unforunately, that appears to mean that that hugh surface lot right in the heart of the development will be around for a good long time.  Really is a shame as it is a big disconnect.  But I guess we should look at the positive and be happy that phase 2 is a go and heap praise on the Wolsteins for all their hard work.

we have all these out buildings with huge parking lots separating them.  It will have a suburban feel until the development plan is completed.  I see they added the office building north of PHase 1, that wasn't originally planned.

 

 

And that building is being located where there is currently...  a parking lot!  So don't look at a little strip of asphalt as anything too permanent...

^as I reflected in my original post, I am more discouraged by the huge parking lot between the rapid tracks and building 4 which looks like it will be there for quite some time.

It looks like that office building would have a footprint measuring about 120 feet by 300 feet. If so, that's a floor measuring some 36,000 square feet. And if that's correct, it will take only four floors to provide a 150,000 square foot office building. There may be a couple levels of structured parking below the office space which could put the first floor of the office building at the sidewalk level of West 9th Street at Front Street.

As referenced in the Phase 2 release above it states The Phase 2 plan calls for a 150,000 square foot office building over 125,000 square feet of retail. This is the 'new' office building north of the EY tower that is not on the original site plan. So it looks like the retail has just moved to a different location. They must feel confident in filling up that office space, which is a good thing. I am not concerned with the surface lots, I am sure they have plans for them.

Also concerning the long process in obtaining financing. Its hard to compare what MRN did with Uptown 1&2 with FEB. This was a very complicated site, they had to do everything they could to minimize risk.

^as I reflected in my original post, I am more discouraged by the huge parking lot between the rapid tracks and building 4 which looks like it will be there for quite some time.

 

depends on your definition of "quite some time".  Rome wasn't built in a day.  Considering FEB phase 1 just opened in May, I think the next 5 years will see steady construction progress for the rest of the site, including the boardwalk, residential, more office, and more entertainment/dining venues.  They'll have to build a parking structure in there sometime soon, either with a building on top or a free standing garage.  There's barely enough parking as it is now for the office tower and it's not even fully occupied

Those buildings on the north side better have some major sound deading built into them.  I'm on the other side of the E&Y tower, 12 stories above the water and those train horns are loud as hell!

There appears to be plans for a phase 3 which would include apartments or condos over a parking structure.  So at least something could fill that void, hopefully sooner than 20 years from now.