September 20, 201311 yr Me neither! Now that original picture doesn't look as good as I originally thought!
September 20, 201311 yr That's cool! Do they actually have northward facing windows in there? Yep, there's windows facing north. This is a google maps shot from W.9th of the corner of W.9th and Front Ave. Cool--I guess I never really noticed or paid attention!
October 1, 201311 yr Author Downtown/Flats Design Review District Agenda October 3rd, 2013 9:30am City Hall, Room 514, 601 Lakeside Avenue 2. DF2013-066: Flipside Restaurant New Construction - Concept Approval Project Location: West 10th and Front Avenue Project Representative: Steve Ciciretto, Architect http://planning.city.cleveland.oh.us/designreview/drcagenda/2013/10032013/100313%20DRAC%20agenda.pdf "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
October 2, 201311 yr That must be the small building next to the Waterfront Line viaduct in the plans.
October 3, 201311 yr Author That must be the small building next to the Waterfront Line viaduct in the plans. It is. Graphics have now been posted..... "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
October 3, 201311 yr I love it! In this case, I feel that a single story, single use building works well
October 3, 201311 yr ^Nice to see the momentum continuing. Prospects should be good for this new spot. From the looks of things, the 3-4 restaurants/spots opened so far in FEB have been wildly successful, which is doubly great given that there's so little down there at this point.
October 4, 201311 yr I love it! In this case, I feel that a single story, single use building works well Agree. When you get closer to the water you don't want tall buildings shading out everything.
October 4, 201311 yr Agree. When you get closer to the water you don't want tall buildings shading out everything. But that's going to happen with the planned multi-story apt. building which will rise along the boardwalk ...which we want, of course.
October 4, 201311 yr Took me a while to figure out why the perspective rendering there didn't match up to the site plan... only just now realized the rendering is of a Columbus location. I hope our version doesn't have the same cheesy "custom artwork," but otherwise looks like the right kind of thing to fill that scrap of land.
October 4, 201311 yr I love it! In this case, I feel that a single story, single use building works well I disagree. It is an odd site but they should have made this at least a two story building with offices above. That is actually what is noted on the original leasing plan. Building 10, Office over Restaurant. In my opinion, single story buildings do not belong in a city. https://www.instagram.com/cle_and_beyond/https://www.instagram.com/jbkaufer/
October 4, 201311 yr Agree. When you get closer to the water you don't want tall buildings shading out everything. But that's going to happen with the planned multi-story apt. building which will rise along the boardwalk ...which we want, of course. I think this is a pretty healthy setback: http://www2.coolcleveland.com/images/002009/082609/EastBankFlatsDay.jpg
October 7, 201311 yr Took me a while to figure out why the perspective rendering there didn't match up to the site plan... only just now realized the rendering is of a Columbus location. I hope our version doesn't have the same cheesy "custom artwork," but otherwise looks like the right kind of thing to fill that scrap of land. It's really more of a branding/concept study. They are going to build one in Columbus, but it was included with this submittal so you could see the concept and materials. I'm not sure what you mean by "cheesy custom artwork". This isn't an Applebee's and I can't really say that I can think off the top of my head of any artwork being incorporated into restaurant signage in Cleveland. I don't really consider something like what Brasa has as a piece of art as opposed to just an eye catcher.
October 7, 201311 yr ^Oh, for sure, I understand why the Columbus rendering is shown--I was just confessing my own inability to read. You'll note that the Columbus rendering has big signage panels labeled on the plan as "Custom Artwork painted on wood boards." That's what I'm hoping we don't get in our branch. A giant "craft beer" sign with a wheat farmer? Looks like it was ripped from a state fair midway or something.
October 7, 201311 yr You'll note that the Columbus rendering has big signage panels labeled on the plan as "Custom Artwork painted on wood boards." That's what I'm hoping we don't get in our branch. A giant "craft beer" sign with a wheat farmer? Looks like it was ripped from a state fair midway or something. Agree. Also, the random words at the top of the building are cheesy as well. It reminds me of one of those fake Irish pubs, like Claddagh.
October 7, 201311 yr You'll note that the Columbus rendering has big signage panels labeled on the plan as "Custom Artwork painted on wood boards." That's what I'm hoping we don't get in our branch. A giant "craft beer" sign with a wheat farmer? Looks like it was ripped from a state fair midway or something. Agree. Also, the random words at the top of the building are cheesy as well. It reminds me of one of those fake Irish pubs, like Claddagh. Correct, a state fair is what I think they would be going for. Farm-to-table is huge right now (think organic). They are not using the lettering at the top of the building. The image was used to show the lighting being used, not the lettering.
October 7, 201311 yr ^Oh, for sure, I understand why the Columbus rendering is shown--I was just confessing my own inability to read. You'll note that the Columbus rendering has big signage panels labeled on the plan as "Custom Artwork painted on wood boards." That's what I'm hoping we don't get in our branch. A giant "craft beer" sign with a wheat farmer? Looks like it was ripped from a state fair midway or something. Uhhh, barley, maybe?
October 7, 201311 yr ^Doh! Major grain fail. Now that it's October I can't even pretend I was thinking about weissbier.
October 17, 201311 yr Flats East Bank developers refinance Ernst & Young Tower, securing $92 million loan from Citigroup Putting new debt without personal liability on the tower "certainly helps us in the sense that it frees up capital from the family that would have otherwise had to go into the office building that can be redeployed into the next phase of the project," Wolstein said. He hopes to close a public-private financing deal within 60 days for the next wave of development. Updated plans for that second phase include 245 apartments, plus restaurants and entertainment venues. http://www.cleveland.com/business/index.ssf/2013/10/flats_east_bank_developers_ref.html#incart_river_default
October 17, 201311 yr Author Sounds like this loan will jumpstart the next phase. Hope so. EDIT: wait a sec'. Previous reports had 140 apartments in phase 2. Now this is say 225 apartments? Is there a typo here? Or an expansion from prior plans? If an expansion, will it mean a taller apartment building or a second building? Hmmmm. "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
October 17, 201311 yr Sounds like this loan will jumpstart the next phase. Hope so. EDIT: wait a sec'. Previous reports had 140 apartments in phase 2. Now this is say 225 apartments? Is there a typo here? Or an expansion from prior plans? If an expansion, will it mean a taller apartment building or a second building? Hmmmm. Hey KJP - It's 245 apartments, and it's not a typo. That's why I wrote "updated plans." There's space for a lot more (probably 750-1000 units total), but they're going to tackle the residential development one building at a time. Michelle
October 17, 201311 yr Author MJM: Thanks! Any word if they are expanding from 140 to 225 vertically or horizontally? "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
October 18, 201311 yr That is over 50% more units! I would imagine they would have to build upward to keep space available for all the other attractions that they want to put down there.
October 19, 201311 yr Author That is over 50% more units! I would imagine they would have to build upward to keep space available for all the other attractions that they want to put down there. If so, then we're looking at a 10- or 11-story building instead of just seven. "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
October 19, 201311 yr Although Michelle said they are doing residential one building at a time I wonder if what was proposed back in 2008 to be part of the proposed parking garage between w11th and the waterfront tracks is back in play. That would seem to fit the numbers. http://www.dimitarchitects.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=53&Itemid=61
October 19, 201311 yr Author That could be. They may not want to go higher than seven stories with the riverfront apartment building as it would block views of the water from the hotel and even from the E&Y office building. Guess we'll have to wait and see. "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
October 19, 201311 yr Not only that, but the apartment building is already sort of large and monolithic. I'd hate to see it be more so.
October 21, 201311 yr Author Holy Schmoly! "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
October 21, 201311 yr So turns out "Blue Martini" is a real establishment, which may be news only to me: http://www.bluemartinilounge.com/blue-martini-vip.html. And here I thought it was just the made-up vision of a 40 something rendering artist reminiscing about 2003.
October 21, 201311 yr I don't think those are that new. They've been on the flats east website in the phase II section Looks nice though...would love to see it alive like that
October 21, 201311 yr Yes those have been around since last summer. But I wonder why the FEB Facebook would post those now. And now I am really confused as what is Phase ll. The rendering above depicts the area between the waterfront tracks and the new apartment complex. The site plan released with the Phase ll announcement doesn't show that as part of it. Maybe with the recent story from Michelle stating the increase in the number of apartment units from 140 to 245 has something to do with it. Looks like the area shown above which includes a parking deck could be part of it, although I haven't seen any announcement.
October 21, 201311 yr Looking at those renderrings above shows how this could drain other areas of the city (W25th, WHD, E4th) very quickly. I really wouldn't care if the Flats did not consist of one more restaurant in it's build out. The ones in the Aloft are good enough by me. Many more waterside apartments, some general retail (drugstores, bookstores, gadget store etc), is all that I think this are needs to be successful. Lets face it, 5 years from now, what ever opens up as far as restaurants down there go, will most likely change hands and shed a bad light on the development overall. I love the development in the flats because it was a mess post 2000, however the mix of tenants is nothing taht I would like to see. JMHO. It seems like an E4th stree 12 blocks west...
October 21, 201311 yr That's the problem with Cleveland at this point. Every neighborhood is trying to become a place for dining or bars, since other retail is not viable yet. We can only maintain so many dining districts, so new areas will end up hurting older dining areas, or the new dining areas will just fail. I see the same issue with every neighborhood trying to become an arts neighborhood.
October 21, 201311 yr HOpefully the convention center attendees will help sustain some of the newer places.
October 21, 201311 yr Any surface lot on that site plan is a candidate for another building if this project is successful. I agree it's odd the buildings in the facebook photos aren't in the phase 2 plans, but clearly something changed.
October 21, 201311 yr That's the problem with Cleveland at this point. Every neighborhood is trying to become a place for dining or bars, since other retail is not viable yet. We can only maintain so many dining districts, so new areas will end up hurting older dining areas, or the new dining areas will just fail. I see the same issue with every neighborhood trying to become an arts neighborhood. It isn't quite the zero-sum game you are making it out to be. Clearly there are more people coming downtown and to Ohio City then back in the 90's. The typical family's entertainment budget has gone up, so the overall pot is bigger despite the lagging economy and lost population. That isn't a Cleveland phenomenon. I agree though the entertainment districts might be growing faster than we can support. Besides FEB, there are new restaurants opening in the Playhouse Square, Uptown, Casino phase II (eventually), and more places in Ohio City south and west of Lorain/W25th. We should hope for population growth in Cleveland, not more transient visitors like tourists and conventioneers. </soap box>
October 21, 201311 yr Lets face it, 5 years from now, what ever opens up as far as restaurants down there go, will most likely change hands and shed a bad light on the development overall. Sure, there is that risk, but then there is also the risk that the next Blue Point, Mallorca, XO, Lola or any other number of downtown institutions will result. In fact, if you compare it to E4th (as you've done) how many of the original restaurants in that street have closed versus non-restaurants? It seems to me that downtowns everywhere are successfully becoming residential, food and entertainment districts in spite of instead of because of the stores. As a resident myself, I find that with Amazon and other internet shopping, the need for a brick and mortar is less and less needed.
October 21, 201311 yr Those renderings are making me think more and more that FEB will look a lot like Kansas City's Power & Light District if Wolstein builds everything out: http://www.powerandlightdistrict.com/index.cfm?page=photos-test§ion=11&subsection=district
October 21, 201311 yr ^Could you also make the argument that although the population overall in Cleveland has decreased the amount of white collar residents with more spendable income is actually increasing? Im trying to think of a time since the mid-1900's that the middle to upper income residents were moving TO the city of cleveland. The reason i mention this is proximity. While the average well-to-do citizen may have visited the Flats often in its heyday, that was an event for those people. Now, we are finding people with money doing their every day activities in these neighborhoods (Tremont, Downtown, Gordon Square, OC), its not just a weekend event.
October 21, 201311 yr Those renderings are making me think more and more that FEB will look a lot like Kansas City's Power & Light District if Wolstein builds everything out: http://www.powerandlightdistrict.com/index.cfm?page=photos-test§ion=11&subsection=district Wow. If it ends up being even half that, it would be pretty amazing.
October 21, 201311 yr It's actually not all that big a site, as you can see at http://www.powerandlightdistrict.com/index.cfm?page=map But I was actually referring more to the type of big-box entertainment tenants, relatively new urbanist siting paired with an abundance of surface and structured parking and relatively "loud" lighting and signage scheme.
October 21, 201311 yr Author ^Could you also make the argument that although the population overall in Cleveland has decreased the amount of white collar residents with more spendable income is actually increasing? Im trying to think of a time since the mid-1900's that the middle to upper income residents were moving TO the city of cleveland. The reason i mention this is proximity. While the average well-to-do citizen may have visited the Flats often in its heyday, that was an event for those people. Now, we are finding people with money doing their every day activities in these neighborhoods (Tremont, Downtown, Gordon Square, OC), its not just a weekend event. That's right. The purchasing power of a neighborhood increases when there are residents having mixed incomes, not just low incomes, and more businesses follow the money into a neighborhood. EDIT: to keep this on topic, I do like neighborhoods with "brands" and specialties. I don't want each urban neighborhood to be like higher-density versions of look-a-like suburban strip malls and power centers where you know what the retail mix will be before you even set foot in it. If that's what Flats East Bank will be, that's not what will get me to come there. In fact, I just realized that I haven't personally patronized any of their businesses yet (except for a business function). "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
October 21, 201311 yr It's actually not all that big a site, as you can see at http://www.powerandlightdistrict.com/index.cfm?page=map But I was actually referring more to the type of big-box entertainment tenants, relatively new urbanist siting paired with an abundance of surface and structured parking and relatively "loud" lighting and signage scheme. Agreed. When I said "half that", I wasn't referring to size either.
October 21, 201311 yr Power and Light district is really KC's E 4th, since one of it's main draw is the arena. I hope the best for the Flats project, but would really like to see it focus on residential and office. Cleveland doesn't need another restaurant zone.
October 21, 201311 yr what I really want to know, now that it has been a few days since Michelle's article (and since KJP did inquire) is where the additional apartments mentioned in the article are going . I tend to agree with a number of posters that the riverfront building is not going any taller to accomodate the increase...so where?
October 22, 201311 yr That's the problem with Cleveland at this point. Every neighborhood is trying to become a place for dining or bars, since other retail is not viable yet. We can only maintain so many dining districts, so new areas will end up hurting older dining areas, or the new dining areas will just fail. I see the same issue with every neighborhood trying to become an arts neighborhood. Bingo!
October 22, 201311 yr and yet there are still more areas trying to launch Community Entertainment District overlays.... Detroit Shoreway is about to launch one along Detroit & 65th.... hello, silver bullet?
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