http://media.cleveland.com/business_impact/photo/fwd-flats-elevation-040d3b9e63df5290.jpg

 

One of the criticisms of the original FEB was that the bars/restaurants walled off access to the river. While the boardwalk obviously creates unprecedented access alongside, it doesn't seem like this new concept embraces the river at all. At least the original places got that right. This FWD should be renamed "FORTRESS."

 

Heck, the Chagrin Falls architect even features "chain link fence" in the drawing ha ha. Very classy guys. What the heck is wrong with these people?

 

 

^Whats the big structure in the image jsut to the east of FWD?

 

Based on the curve of the River and the Boardwalk, I'm thinking the rendering has us looking from the north -- essentially from the POV of the NS ROW just east of the RR's vertical lift ("Iron Curtain") bridge -- which means the building would be to the Club's south, SE and would be the apartments currently under construction... I think.

I am pretty sure that's a multi-story parking lot.

You can see FWD on the left hand edge and the parking on the right of it.....

 

I am pretty sure that's a multi-story parking lot.

 

You are correct.  My geography needs work.

It should at least have a light canopy type structure over the dance floor and bars.  This isn't Phoenix with clear skies 325 days a year.  It would still feel open with a light roof.

Hmm, on the site plan that garage is labeled as Phase lll. Unless its been updated that would probably be surface parking for now.

^Whats the big structure in the image jsut to the east of FWD?

 

That structure you see in the background is a parking garage, but that's not happening as part of phase two. For the foreseeable future, that property (just east of the club) will be a surface lot.

 

Michelle

^Whats the big structure in the image jsut to the east of FWD?

 

That structure you see in the background is a parking garage, but that's not happening as part of phase two. For the foreseeable future, that property (just east of the club) will be a surface lot.

 

Michelle

 

Interesting. I actually prefer the surface lot until the parking garage can evolve into something more.

^Whats the big structure in the image jsut to the east of FWD?

 

That structure you see in the background is a parking garage, but that's not happening as part of phase two. For the foreseeable future, that property (just east of the club) will be a surface lot.

 

Michelle

 

mjarboe[/member]

 

Do you have any information on the second office component you can give us?

Why is everyone acting like this club concept is new? It's been a part of the project from DAY ONE. It's a seasonal outdoor nightclub. It wasn't just a throwaway placeholder. They PLANNED this. I, for one, am looking forward to it. The design is iffy to me, but I think the concept is an interesting one and I think nightlife is important to any city, as has been documented here before. But I don't know why people are acting like they're hearing about this for the first time

 

it was always supposed to be part of this project for phase 2. for phase 3 originally it was supposed to be a residential tower. hopefully that happens or at least the rest of phase 3 goes forward. this outdoor club and everything else will all be a hit and generate interest, so i'm sure it will.

On the subject of FWD (btw, I really liked Andrew's examples) and shipping containers. It would be a neat touch if they incorporated some public art into the design (see the really example below). Maybe using my favorite symbol of Cleveland, the Guardians of Transportation - as used on the Lorain-Carnegie bridge). Just a thought.

 

On the subject of FWD (btw, I really liked Andrew's examples) and shipping containers. It would be a neat touch if they incorporated some public art into the design (see the really example below). Maybe using my favorite symbol of Cleveland, the Guardians of Transportation - as used on the Lorain-Carnegie bridge). Just a thought.

 

That's pretty cool, but I would love to see well known influential/famous Cleveland figures throughout our city's history put on there. Maybe more towards the celebrities or easily recognizable figures so out of towners can see it and want to take pictures by it etc. Just my 2¢

^Whats the big structure in the image jsut to the east of FWD?

 

That structure you see in the background is a parking garage, but that's not happening as part of phase two. For the foreseeable future, that property (just east of the club) will be a surface lot.

 

Michelle

 

mjarboe[/member]

 

Do you have any information on the second office component you can give us?

 

Nothing specific yet. Scott Wolstein has described the second office building (lower-rise and smaller than the E&Y Tower) as phase 2b. It's not on the same timetable as the rest of phase two, and it obviously hangs on securing enough office tenants in advance to make the deal work.

 

Michelle

http://planning.city.cleveland.oh.us/designreview/drcagenda/2014/08012014/index.php

 

City Planning Commission

Agenda for August 1, 2014

 

DOWNTOWN/FLATS DESIGN REVIEW

1. DF2014-059 - FWD Open-Air Night Club

Project Location: Front Street and Old River Road

Project Representative: Stephen Ciciretto, Architect

 

Found while perusing the Dodge construction reports.  I'm pretty sure this is the public boardwalk to complement FEB:

 

Cleveland Riverwalk Construction

200800705398 v. 18

Dodge Project Report, Plans, Spec and Addenda

Owner Type: Public

Sidewalk/Parking Lot,

Park/Playground,

Dock/Pier Bidding $2,999,999 OH (Cuyahoga) Aug 7, 2014

 

See here: http://dodgeprojects.construction.com/search.htm?page=3&sortBy=sbidstage%2csbidrange&query=&count=150&state=OH&includeASAPAndNDS=false&numHits=10&path=cbiddate%3a%22Other%22&filter=county%3aCuyahoga&WT=navigate%3bnext+page

 

 

Here is a much more detailed description on the Ohio Bid Network's site:

http://www.ohiobids.com/bid-opportunities/2014/07/17/5749194-CUYCleveland-Riverwalk-Flats-East.html

A couple quick pics that I snapped last night with the iphone from Shooters boardwalk.  I was pretty amazed with the actual size of phase 2, and the impact it will have on the overall development.  Looks to be about 2 to 3 stories to go. 

 

 

 

 

^Nice.  Thanks for the update.

Shipping containers club??  Was that in the original vision of this space?  I know it's changed from neighborhood, to movie theater district, to condos, to public beach to generic mediocrity.  The FEB could of been such a great area, and I am not impressed with the long and winding development that has taken place there.  Maybe I am not the target audience for this "new" area - which is fine by me as I do not plan to ever visit this area nor hang out at the shipping container club.  (R.I.P. Kindlers)

^The club has always been envisioned as a outdoor club, and from the early renderings, it did not look like a lot of structure would be built to accomodate it.

 

As shown above shipping containers COULD be used in a attractive manner, but that depends on the design.  However, I like the tie in with the port nearby and the large ships that will navigate the river as the outdoor patrons will see.

 

 

Shipping containers club??  Was that in the original vision of this space?  I know it's changed from neighborhood, to movie theater district, to condos, to public beach to generic mediocrity.  The FEB could of been such a great area, and I am not impressed with the long and winding development that has taken place there.  Maybe I am not the target audience for this "new" area - which is fine by me as I do not plan to ever visit this area nor hang out at the shipping container club.  (R.I.P. Kindlers)

 

The original plan hasn't changed as much as you've said.  They've always planned for a Miami style club in that space.  There's going to be plenty of other venues opening as part of phase II as well. 

The construction of the residential complex looks to be solid. Nice to see concrete floors between levels to minimize the noise.

The construction of the residential complex looks to be solid. Nice to see concrete floors between levels to minimize the noise.

 

If that's supposed to be a live music venue, they're going to have to have Spinal Tap's amplifiers that go up to 11 in order to hear the music over the sound of a freight train with 125-ton double-stack container cars hammering over the bridge at 50 mph. Maybe they can sync the music to the rhythm of the train slamming across the lift bridge.

 

Awesome pic JG...love the river traffic.

Shipping containers club??  Was that in the original vision of this space?  I know it's changed from neighborhood, to movie theater district, to condos, to public beach to generic mediocrity.  The FEB could of been such a great area, and I am not impressed with the long and winding development that has taken place there.  Maybe I am not the target audience for this "new" area - which is fine by me as I do not plan to ever visit this area nor hang out at the shipping container club.  (R.I.P. Kindlers)

 

awww man. thats a sore spot. as much as i am happy with all this redevelopment, i must agree it was a huge, huge misguided mistake to clearcut all of the original buildings, in particular such locally historic structures as kindlers and the original rockefeller warehouse. these old buildings could have been redeveloped into the nouveau flats easily enough and been great draws. a shame. however, in the end after phase 3 and i dk maybe a phase 4 it may not be so unique anymore, but overall it will be a great place again. it will certainly be a lively mix well even before then. i say hang on just a bit longer and then give it a try and a chance!

 

Shipping containers club??  Was that in the original vision of this space?  I know it's changed from neighborhood, to movie theater district, to condos, to public beach to generic mediocrity.  The FEB could of been such a great area, and I am not impressed with the long and winding development that has taken place there.  Maybe I am not the target audience for this "new" area - which is fine by me as I do not plan to ever visit this area nor hang out at the shipping container club.  (R.I.P. Kindlers)

 

awww man. thats a sore spot. as much as i am happy with all this redevelopment, i must agree it was a huge, huge misguided mistake to clearcut all of the original buildings, in particular such locally historic structures as kindlers and the original rockefeller warehouse. these old buildings could have been redeveloped into the nouveau flats easily enough and been great draws. a shame. however, in the end after phase 3 and i dk maybe a phase 4 it may not be so unique anymore, but overall it will be a great place again. it will certainly be a lively mix well even before then. i say hang on just a bit longer and then give it a try and a chance!

 

 

Agree. This is the exact reason FEB will always be a sore spot for me too. I really dug the history and smaller scale of the buildings. Still, hoping for the best in the future. It is really cool to see the new development going on, even if I'm fairly certain it will never again be my "go to" place to hang out.

Shipping containers club??  Was that in the original vision of this space?  I know it's changed from neighborhood, to movie theater district, to condos, to public beach to generic mediocrity.  The FEB could of been such a great area, and I am not impressed with the long and winding development that has taken place there.  Maybe I am not the target audience for this "new" area - which is fine by me as I do not plan to ever visit this area nor hang out at the shipping container club.  (R.I.P. Kindlers)

 

awww man. thats a sore spot. as much as i am happy with all this redevelopment, i must agree it was a huge, huge misguided mistake to clearcut all of the original buildings, in particular such locally historic structures as kindlers and the original rockefeller warehouse. these old buildings could have been redeveloped into the nouveau flats easily enough and been great draws. a shame. however, in the end after phase 3 and i dk maybe a phase 4 it may not be so unique anymore, but overall it will be a great place again. it will certainly be a lively mix well even before then. i say hang on just a bit longer and then give it a try and a chance!

 

 

Agree. This is the exact reason FEB will always be a sore spot for me too. I really dug the history and smaller scale of the buildings. Still, hoping for the best in the future. It is really cool to see the new development going on, even if I'm fairly certain it will never again be my "go to" place to hang out.

 

I certainly miss the old Flats too, ... a lot.  It was wild, crazy and fun... But in hindsight, which is 20-20 of course, I see the structural flaws which led to its  downfall and, in some ways, am glad to see this new version try and correct it.  I will say I concur in that it seems some thought could have, and probably should have, been made toward maintaining the scale and, at least, the facades of the older buildings that were wiped out in the Wolstein/Fishman development.  But many of those old clubs were literally just converted warehouses with minimal improvement.  That led to their charm but, on the other hand, lent a seediness that made many of them easy to destroy.  Also, Old River Road  south of the Bridge (and outside the Fairmount footprint, does maintain the scale and Victorian feel of the old Flats: buildings like Samsel's hardware, the former Arhaus furniture & Watermark restaurant. 

 

Yes, many people are decrying the "sanitized" nature of the new Flats.  And we also know that the totally non-residential nature of the old Flats, along with the minimalist warehouse conversions (not to mention the many chain restaurants there) lent a fly-by-night aspect.  It also meant that, when it wasn't Friday or Saturday evening (esp during the summer), the area was almost totally dead.  And right now, I'll take a bit of sanitation in the hip/trendy areas I choose to visit.  OK, so I'm a bit older (and certainly more curmudgeonly) than most UO posters -- not ancient like MTS, but older... Sadly, I think we've seen (and are still seeing) what happens to hip-trendy Cleveland neighborhoods that have a bunch of bars and, esp, that have live, esp rock, bands.  The Flats wasn't just buzzing with life, it was rowdy, drunken (with many young people staggering around, throwing up, collapsing on the pavement and passed out).  And I witnessed too many fights, sometimes woman-on-woman, than I care to remember.

 

Of course we're seeing this same behavior on W. 6th and, surprisingly, I've seen a little bit of it in Market Square/Ohio City on weekend nights.  In downtown in particular, I both hear and read people, even some of the 20-30 crowd say they prefer the more sedate though lively E. 4th vs. W. 6th (aka the "New Flats").  Ironically, the upscale FEB and its restaurant and clubs may morph into being the "old" Warehouse District; the one where folks escaped to avoid the Flats' craziness.

 

Any district or street loaded with crappy food, but tons of booze and music is going to have problems.  Hence the WHD and the old Flats versus E4th street.  No question about it. 

 

The new flats will be much improved for Cleveland.  As in anything, variety is the spice of life.  And variety is what the new flats is bringing. 

Any district or street loaded with crappy food, but tons of booze and music is going to have problems.  Hence the WHD and the old Flats versus E4th street.  No question about it. 

 

The new flats will be much improved for Cleveland.  As in anything, variety is the spice of life.  And variety is what the new flats is bringing. 

 

Unfortunately the tourist destination (for boaters) is long gone.  Hopefully they can eventually get some of that back.

^Calling it a tourist destination for boaters is a bit of a stretch.  Moreso people in Cleveland who used to hang out down there on their boat.  They can still dock at Shooters if they would like. 

 

Although, I'm not even positive that the new FEB won't have boat dockage??

^Calling it a tourist destination for boaters is a bit of a stretch.  Moreso people in Cleveland who used to hang out down there on their boat.  They can still dock at Shooters if they would like. 

 

Although, I'm not even positive that the new FEB won't have boat dockage??

 

I'm not sure it won't, either... Also, it looks pretty certain that a new (and hopefully much improved) River Taxi will return once FEB Phase II is complete.

Shipping containers club??  Was that in the original vision of this space?  I know it's changed from neighborhood, to movie theater district, to condos, to public beach to generic mediocrity.  The FEB could of been such a great area, and I am not impressed with the long and winding development that has taken place there.  Maybe I am not the target audience for this "new" area - which is fine by me as I do not plan to ever visit this area nor hang out at the shipping container club.  (R.I.P. Kindlers)

 

awww man. thats a sore spot. as much as i am happy with all this redevelopment, i must agree it was a huge, huge misguided mistake to clearcut all of the original buildings, in particular such locally historic structures as kindlers and the original rockefeller warehouse. these old buildings could have been redeveloped into the nouveau flats easily enough and been great draws. a shame. however, in the end after phase 3 and i dk maybe a phase 4 it may not be so unique anymore, but overall it will be a great place again. it will certainly be a lively mix well even before then. i say hang on just a bit longer and then give it a try and a chance!

 

 

Agree. This is the exact reason FEB will always be a sore spot for me too. I really dug the history and smaller scale of the buildings. Still, hoping for the best in the future. It is really cool to see the new development going on, even if I'm fairly certain it will never again be my "go to" place to hang out.

 

I certainly miss the old Flats too, ... a lot.  It was wild, crazy and fun... But in hindsight, which is 20-20 of course, I see the structural flaws which led to its  downfall and, in some ways, am glad to see this new version try and correct it.  I will say I concur in that it seems some thought could have, and probably should have, been made toward maintaining the scale and, at least, the facades of the older buildings that were wiped out in the Wolstein/Fishman development.  But many of those old clubs were literally just converted warehouses with minimal improvement.  That led to their charm but, on the other hand, lent a seediness that made many of them easy to destroy.  Also, Old River Road  south of the Bridge (and outside the Fairmount footprint, does maintain the scale and Victorian feel of the old Flats: buildings like Samsel's hardware, the former Arhaus furniture & Watermark restaurant. 

 

Yes, many people are decrying the "sanitized" nature of the new Flats.  And we also know that the totally non-residential nature of the old Flats, along with the minimalist warehouse conversions (not to mention the many chain restaurants there) lent a fly-by-night aspect.  It also meant that, when it wasn't Friday or Saturday evening (esp during the summer), the area was almost totally dead.  And right now, I'll take a bit of sanitation in the hip/trendy areas I choose to visit.  OK, so I'm a bit older (and certainly more curmudgeonly) than most UO posters -- not ancient like MTS, but older... Sadly, I think we've seen (and are still seeing) what happens to hip-trendy Cleveland neighborhoods that have a bunch of bars and, esp, that have live, esp rock, bands.  The Flats wasn't just buzzing with life, it was rowdy, drunken (with many young people staggering around, throwing up, collapsing on the pavement and passed out).  And I witnessed too many fights, sometimes woman-on-woman, than I care to remember.

 

Of course we're seeing this same behavior on W. 6th and, surprisingly, I've seen a little bit of it in Market Square/Ohio City on weekend nights.  In downtown in particular, I both hear and read people, even some of the 20-30 crowd say they prefer the more sedate though lively E. 4th vs. W. 6th (aka the "New Flats").  Ironically, the upscale FEB and its restaurant and clubs may morph into being the "old" Warehouse District; the one where folks escaped to avoid the Flats' craziness.

 

 

 

You primeval fossil!

Update from WKYC

http://www.wkyc.com/story/news/local/cuyahoga-county/2014/08/12/flats-phase-two/13964813/

Update from WKYC

http://www.wkyc.com/story/news/local/cuyahoga-county/2014/08/12/flats-phase-two/13964813/

 

"The height will double in a couple of months"

Update from WKYC

http://www.wkyc.com/story/news/local/cuyahoga-county/2014/08/12/flats-phase-two/13964813/

 

"The height will double in a couple of months"

 

..."and a Super Bowl before that" umm, that's not how it works. sports, throw that ball!

Once Phase 2 opens, I predict that some of the bar traffic will shift away from West 25th to hang out at the Flats.

Michelle J. McFee ‏mjarboe[/member]  5m

Apartment construction at Flats East Bank project in downtown #CLE. View from E&Y Tower roof deck. Bonus: freighter!

Once Phase 2 opens, I predict that some of the bar traffic will shift away from West 25th to hang out at the Flats.

 

I hope not.  I hope even more people come downtown to experience the Flats again while some hang out in Ohio City -- and hopefully many folks will do both places.  This is a huge metro area and we clearly have enough people to support both entertainment districts and I want both of them to succeed (W.25th obviously already is) ... Why rob Peter to Pay Paul?

I believe they both will do well.  Ohio City caters to a different urban audience while the Flats will cater to a more suburban crowd.  The venues and design of the flats are very Crocker Park like for a purpose.

I also think they both will do well, but you really think W 25th caters to a more urban crowd?

^ that's not my personal experience. Tons of people from the suburbs go to West 25th. I could see the flats drawing a slightly older crowd, but I don't see this as urban vs suburban. I think both will draw a lot of the same crowd. The flats of course should draw some old timers though who are curious about the new flats.

I'm personally most excited about the dueling pianos bar and boardwalk. This area has the potential to be special again. Hopefully demand stays high and more mid-rises are built as well as Old River Rd properties filling in.

Once Phase 2 opens, I predict that some of the bar traffic will shift away from West 25th to hang out at the Flats.

 

Why?  Why can't both prosper?  Similar things were said when East 4th came online, did people stop patronizing business in WHD?  When the casino opened did it suck people off the streets of E4th and the WHD?  if I recall, the changes helped downtown as a whole.

 

As I've often said on this forum, why is it that people feel/think we cannot have more than one happening area or if one area improves/recreates itself, that other nearby areas will be hurt.  Of course new people and people who like to explore their city will visit these new venues, but I don't foresee a radical shift in patronage or $$$.

I believe they both will do well.  Ohio City caters to a different urban audience while the Flats will cater to a more suburban crowd.  The venues and design of the flats are very Crocker Park like for a purpose.

I disagree.  I think there is a good mix of both.  The build-out may be slightly suburban, those living their want an urban experience.

 

For the first few months this area will be like a new toy.

I'm personally most excited about the dueling pianos bar and boardwalk. This area has the potential to be special again. Hopefully demand stays high and more mid-rises are built as well as Old River Rd properties filling in.

 

Once Phase 2 opens, I predict that some of the bar traffic will shift away from West 25th to hang out at the Flats.

 

Why?  Why can't both prosper?  Similar things were said when East 4th came online, did people stop patronizing business in WHD?  When the casino opened did it suck people off the streets of E4th and the WHD?  if I recall, the changes helped downtown as a whole.

 

As I've often said on this forum, why is it that people feel/think we cannot have more than one happening area or if one area improves/recreates itself, that other nearby areas will be hurt.  Of course new people and people who like to explore their city will visit these new venues, but I don't foresee a radical shift in patronage or $$$.

 

 

Of course both can prosper!  Yes, there will be some shift of existing patrons and yes there will also be new patrons who are drawn to check out both areas.

I'm personally most excited about the dueling pianos bar and boardwalk. This area has the potential to be special again. Hopefully demand stays high and more mid-rises are built as well as Old River Rd properties filling in.

 

[/img]

Ha! I've only been once in New Orleans and it was a blast....although we were drunk. Nothing else gets me excited with the mix that's been announced.

I'm personally most excited about the dueling pianos bar and boardwalk. This area has the potential to be special again. Hopefully demand stays high and more mid-rises are built as well as Old River Rd properties filling in.

 

[/img]

Ha! I've only been once in New Orleans and it was a blast....although we were drunk. Nothing else gets me excited with the mix that's been announced.

 

Note to self keep jjames0408[/member] away from paino bars and Karaoke nights!  Damn gays!  LOL