June 30, 20186 yr Author Already posted https://www.urbanohio.com/forum/index.php/topic,1823.msg923754.html#msg923754 "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
June 30, 20186 yr ^ ok you dont see any resemblance or err, kenection at all between the three of them shown above and i dont see any differences. If it saves them money, then why not?
June 30, 20186 yr I hope they've done their research on the size/demand of the units. I get they want to keep the price down and, sure millennial's tend to live OUTSIDE their apts. but that square footage seems cramped to me. The community space should be really hoppin' though. My biggest complaint is the design looks very generic, especially the theater component. The original look was bright, inviting and you could feel the energy. This theater looks a little like public housing - pretty dreary. As for the tower, well it's better but not by much. Seems like we are forced to choose between lackluster design or nothing at all. Since those are the rules here in CLE I'll have to take the lackluster vs. nothing. Sigh.
June 30, 20186 yr Author Not just Cleveland has lackluster design. Have you seen the crap that gets built in Toronto? Sure, it's massive in vertical scale and in the number of buildings, so that makes it impressive to me. But a lot of it still butt-ugly, IMHO. And I'd take it here in a heartbeat. "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
June 30, 20186 yr To me the best thing about the project is the added density. Plus, if the theater is high end hopefully that will add a different reason to draw outsiders besides just eating and drinking. So that's a good thing. I just wish it looked better.
June 30, 20186 yr Sounds like this theatre is close to the same style as SILVERSPOT that opened at Pinecrest this month.
June 30, 20186 yr Sounds like this theatre is close to the same style as SILVERSPOT that opened at Pinecrest this month. The IPic I’ve been to has two types of seating. The recliners a la AMC theatres and then group couches with blankets and pillows you can use which also have table service. Kind of weird imo and the screens were definitely on the small side. Not saying that’s for sure going to be replicated here but it would have been sweet if he could have gotten an Alamo Drafthouse to commit. Those theatres are high end and uniformly excellent.
July 11, 20186 yr Author Scenes of the the larger of two sites for the $150 million third phase of Flats East Bank, as well as the Waterfront Line extension of the Blue/Green (Van Aken/Shaker) which opened 22 years ago yesterday. The light-rail line should get a much-needed boost from more development alongside it. "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
July 11, 20186 yr ^ Are you a little concerned that the WF Line isn't really featured at all in any of the renderings?
July 11, 20186 yr Author ^ Are you a little concerned that the WF Line isn't really featured at all in any of the renderings? Disappointed, yes. I would be "concerned" if they proposed building it ON the Waterfront Line ROW. "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
July 11, 20186 yr I dunno, at least "light rail line" was labeled on the maps. The rendering from the corner of Main and W. 10th also showed the line and that's the only angle we've seen that would have "featured" it. Theybwould have done well to properly label the station as being catty-corner to the property though.
July 11, 20186 yr I dunno, at least "light rail line" was labeled on the maps. The rendering from the corner of Main and W. 10th also showed the line and that's the only angle we've seen that would have "featured" it. Theybwould have done well to properly label the station as being catty-corner to the property though. I'd rather not see the line buried along windowless buildings. But I'm guessing with residential and the theater they are going to choose blank windowless walls along the rail line.
July 17, 20186 yr Was wondering what you guys thought about a pedestrian bridge crossing from the east to west bank of the flats. One would think this would be beneficial. Has such an idea ever came across any of you guys? Thanks!
July 17, 20186 yr Was wondering what you guys thought about a pedestrian bridge crossing from the east to west bank of the flats. One would think this would be beneficial. Has such an idea ever came across any of you guys? Thanks! I think the Water Taxi covers that nicely - I went by there this weekend and there seemed to be consistent crowds of people crossing.
July 24, 20186 yr https://www.clevelandjewishnews.com/features/business/wolstein-group-pushes-ahead-next-phase-of-flats-east-bank/article_e191ad64-8f47-11e8-9f8b-2b30f1334d19.html If all goes well, Wolstein hopes to continue to develop the Flats East Bank space. “We’re only at the halfway point of this project,” he said. “If the demand continues, and I think it will, we could build upwards for 2000 units on the site and create a real city within a city. That is remarkable.”
July 24, 20186 yr https://www.clevelandjewishnews.com/features/business/wolstein-group-pushes-ahead-next-phase-of-flats-east-bank/article_e191ad64-8f47-11e8-9f8b-2b30f1334d19.html If all goes well, Wolstein hopes to continue to develop the Flats East Bank space. “We’re only at the halfway point of this project,” he said. “If the demand continues, and I think it will, we could build upwards for 2000 units on the site and create a real city within a city. That is remarkable.” 2000 More units! Better figure out a better traffic plan or truly integrate the water front line into the next phases.
July 24, 20186 yr That rendering is hideous.... It looks like the old Bond Court I don't know...I kinda like it.
July 24, 20186 yr https://www.clevelandjewishnews.com/features/business/wolstein-group-pushes-ahead-next-phase-of-flats-east-bank/article_e191ad64-8f47-11e8-9f8b-2b30f1334d19.html If all goes well, Wolstein hopes to continue to develop the Flats East Bank space. “We’re only at the halfway point of this project,” he said. “If the demand continues, and I think it will, we could build upwards for 2000 units on the site and create a real city within a city. That is remarkable.” 2000 More units! Better figure out a better traffic plan or truly integrate the water front line into the next phases. Traffic plan? What's that? Haha. Wolstein really hit on something in the article though. Downtown CLE needs to do much much more to be considered a "kid-friendly" place. There has to be something more than bars and restaurants around FEB. Anyhow, I'm cautiously optimistic that he'll be able to attract those young families that we have seen bolting for Solon or Westlake.
July 24, 20186 yr Sounds like decent employee housing for the servers and bartenders in the flats. They will save money on not having a car since you can live, work, and play right downtown. The waterline might get some use from this.
July 24, 20186 yr Author Does Wolstein mean 2,000 more or 2,000 total? With what is built and planned, FEB would be at about 550 units (240 second phase, 309 third phase). At 2,000 total, imagine quadrupling that. If he means 2,000 more, imagine quintupling it. He could realistically put 2-4 more buildings down there, and possibly a few more at/inside the Waterfront Loop where the port stores shipping containers now. Here's some graphics I've saved over the past 20 years or so.... Flats East Bank siteplan1 by Ken Prendergast, on Flickr Flats East Bank site plan c2016 by Ken Prendergast, on Flickr Flats_East_Bank_Master_Plan1 by Ken Prendergast, on Flickr Flats_East_Bank_Master_Plan2 by Ken Prendergast, on Flickr Flats_East_Bank_Master_Plan3 by Ken Prendergast, on Flickr DFAS - Defense Finance Accounting Services center DFASofficebldg by Ken Prendergast, on Flickr FlatsWolsteinAerial by Ken Prendergast, on Flickr FlatsWolsteinSitePlan by Ken Prendergast, on Flickr flatswolsteinsiteplanadds by Ken Prendergast, on Flickr LighthouseLanding by Ken Prendergast, on Flickr LighthouseSitePlan by Ken Prendergast, on Flickr LighthouseLandUse by Ken Prendergast, on Flickr A photo of mine from 2006, looking westerly along Front Street from near West 9th... LighthouseLandingSite1 by Ken Prendergast, on Flickr While Lighthouse Landing was an attempt by Vic Shaia in 2006 to get more money from the city (which was undertaking eminent domain for FEB) for his parking lot, Shaia at least made a plausible attempt with his renderings. What Kassouf attempted at that same time to try and get more money from the city didn't even involve any effort or creativity, which is par for the course. This is what Kassouf "proposed".... Kassoufcondos1 by Ken Prendergast, on Flickr Kassoufcondos2 by Ken Prendergast, on Flickr Kassoufcondos3 by Ken Prendergast, on Flickr And sorry I don't have better rendering of the proposed World Trade Center. It was a cool plan back in the late-1990s.... World Trade Center by Ken Prendergast, on Flickr "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
July 25, 20186 yr He could put more than 2-4 buildings in the FEB project footprint. He still has almost everything north of Front St.- and FWD won't last long once those parking lots are filled. He still has the lot on the other side of the Main Ave. Bridge, too. And once he's done with all those, he could start replacing the little 1 and 2 story buildings like Margaritaville or whatever is in the Flipside building today with something more substantial, if the demand is still strong.
July 25, 20186 yr Author I suppose. "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
July 25, 20186 yr how the heck are they going to manage parking during construction? the surface lots are basically full most days and overflowing the rest. Taking even half the lot away is going to cause some chaos. Should have built another parking structure on the north lot before they did that last apartment building. Something that could've had office or residential built atop it
July 25, 20186 yr This is just speculation, but I'd imagine if they are starting construction this fall they will try to target having the new parking structure operational before the busy summer season next year. I'd imagine they are timing it seasonally for that exact reason.
July 25, 20186 yr I mean, there are mountains of parking fairly close to FEB even without those lots, like the pit just up the hill. I get that many Clevelanders wouldn't consider that convenient, but that's pretty much why we can't have nice things in this town.
July 25, 20186 yr I mean, there are mountains of parking fairly close to FEB even without those lots, like the pit just up the hill. I get that many Clevelanders wouldn't consider that convenient, but that's pretty much why we can't have nice things in this town. Very true. Nothing grinds my gears more than hearing Clevelanders complain about f****** parking. REALLY!?!?!
July 25, 20186 yr Couple pics from the rooftop of the current Flats East apartment building taken yesterday... some views will change soon with the additional units added:
July 26, 20186 yr I mean, there are mountains of parking fairly close to FEB even without those lots, like the pit just up the hill. I get that many Clevelanders wouldn't consider that convenient, but that's pretty much why we can't have nice things in this town. Very true. Nothing grinds my gears more than hearing Clevelanders complain about f****** parking. REALLY!?!?! I walk all the time and that "pit" parking is much farther than you think. And it's mostly full as it stands now. There really isn't as much parking nearby as you might think.
July 26, 20186 yr I mean, there are mountains of parking fairly close to FEB even without those lots, like the pit just up the hill. I get that many Clevelanders wouldn't consider that convenient, but that's pretty much why we can't have nice things in this town. Very true. Nothing grinds my gears more than hearing Clevelanders complain about f****** parking. REALLY!?!?! I walk all the time and that "pit" parking is much farther than you think. And it's mostly full as it stands now. There really isn't as much parking nearby as you might think. Understood, but I don't think anyone under the age of 40 looks at FEB and goes "I'm not going because I can't park and it takes forever to get out." Rather, they say "it takes forever to get out and I can't park, so I'll take a Lyft."
July 26, 20186 yr Author I know it gets maxed out on weekend evenings, prompting people to park on the West Bank and take the water taxi over. Mittal sponsors free rides on it. Wonder if Mittal could sponsor running the Waterfront Line for free after 7 p.m. until midnight or 1 a.m., so people could park at the Muny Lot and take it over? I mean, the thing uses steel rails, steel wheels, steel hardware, etc. Why not? "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
July 26, 20186 yr I know it gets maxed out on weekend evenings, prompting people to park on the West Bank and take the water taxi over. Mittal sponsors free rides on it. Wonder if Mittal could sponsor running the Waterfront Line for free after 7 p.m. until midnight or 1 a.m., so people could park at the Muny Lot and take it over? I mean, the thing uses steel rails, steel wheels, steel hardware, etc. Why not? I park at work, take the trolley, and leave the car sometimes (usually can't cut myself off enough to drive home :|)
July 26, 20186 yr I know it gets maxed out on weekend evenings, prompting people to park on the West Bank and take the water taxi over. Mittal sponsors free rides on it. Wonder if Mittal could sponsor running the Waterfront Line for free after 7 p.m. until midnight or 1 a.m., so people could park at the Muny Lot and take it over? I mean, the thing uses steel rails, steel wheels, steel hardware, etc. Why not? Late night food trucks in the muny lot. Bam!
July 26, 20186 yr Author Leads to development of the muny lot! Organic development at its finest. "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
August 2, 20186 yr First look: True Cocktails and Bites to bring restaurant-club hybrid to Cleveland Flats https://www.cleveland.com/entertainment/index.ssf/2018/08/first_look_true_cocktails_and.html#incart_m-rpt-2
August 10, 20186 yr Moving quickly... 2. Project: DF2018-038: Kenect Cleveland * The construction of a new multistory mixed use development (Retail, Parking & Apartments) on a current surface parking lot. Project Address: Flats East Bank | Main Ave. & 11th St. Project Representative: David Earnhart, Akara Partners http://planning.city.cleveland.oh.us/designreview/drcagenda/2018/08172018/DRAC_AGENDA_Pres-fastweb.pdf
August 10, 20186 yr Moving quickly... 2. Project: DF2018-038: Kenect Cleveland * The construction of a new multistory mixed use development (Retail, Parking & Apartments) on a current surface parking lot. Project Address: Flats East Bank | Main Ave. & 11th St. Project Representative: David Earnhart, Akara Partners http://planning.city.cleveland.oh.us/designreview/drcagenda/2018/08172018/DRAC_AGENDA_Pres-fastweb.pdf Awesome, that's a detailed presentation. The elevations show a floor-to-floor height of 9'8". What would that make the finished ceiling height -- 8' ?
August 10, 20186 yr Does a theater have to be a mostly-windowless box? I'll assume the practical answer is yes.
August 10, 20186 yr So the image from the June article is the proposed design of the project? Or is it going to be more along the lines of this? Obviously, the above is more developed and what is on the Design Review Agenda. Awesome, that's a detailed presentation. The elevations show a floor-to-floor height of 9'8". What would that make the finished ceiling height -- 8' ? I'd guess they will leave most of the floor-to-floor open to capture as much height in the units as possible and place ceilings/soffits/chases only to conceal MEP. Similar to the Phase II units that I have seen from the outside looking in. Does a theater have to be a mostly-windowless box? I'll assume the practical answer is yes. Seems like a good assumption. :P Going off the images from the Design Review Agenda: I like the inset strip of posters but maybe they could be split apart into individual squares to break up the mass of the mostly-windowless box a bit more and provide a better relation in scale to the retail. Half of the Aloft people are going to be staring at a pretty massive brick wall and mechanical screen though. Haha. Some brickwork that emulates the patterning of the retail could help. Something like Mecanoo's Bruce C. Bolling Municipal Building brickwork. But these are opinions and everyone has those.
August 10, 20186 yr The lack of windows is starting to bother me. As for the theater they should be able to make the hallways, cafe space and common areas toward the outside of the "box." That way these could be actual window views for patrons.
August 10, 20186 yr The lack of windows is starting to bother me. As for the theater they should be able to make the hallways, cafe space and common areas toward the outside of the "box." That way these could be actual window views for patrons. No windows wouldn't bother me if there was like an HD sort of screen on the outside.
August 10, 20186 yr Does a theater have to be a mostly-windowless box? I'll assume the practical answer is yes. You could wrap the windowless box of the theater, with restaurant/bar/ticket areas and other retail similar to how some parking garages are wrapped with retail to hide the ugliness. So yes it's possible. Think about the theaters at Tower city. You can't even see them from the exterior of the complex and the main entrance is buffered from the exterior by the beginning of the walkway to Gateway and all its windows.
August 10, 20186 yr Does a theater have to be a mostly-windowless box? I'll assume the practical answer is yes. You could wrap the windowless box of the theater, with restaurant/bar/ticket areas and other retail similar to how some parking garages are wrapped with retail to hide the ugliness. So yes it's possible. Think about the theaters at Tower city. You can't even see them from the exterior of the complex and the main entrance is buffered from the exterior by the beginning of the walkway to Gateway and all its windows. I think our waterfront district deserves this.
August 30, 20186 yr Phase III moving along quickly.. DOWNTOWN | FLATS DESIGN REVIEW DF2018-038 - Kenect Cleveland: Seeking Final Approval Project Address: Flats East Bank | Main Ave. & 11th Street Project Representative: David Earnhart, Akara Partners http://planning.city.cleveland.oh.us/designreview/drcagenda/2018/09072018/index.php#myGallery
September 4, 20186 yr Channel 8 Story. https://fox8.com/2018/09/04/next-phase-of-flats-east-bank-development-includes-restaurants-retail-movie-theater/
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