Am I understanding this correctly?  185 Micro Apartments and NO 2 bedroom units. Hmmm. https://www.news5cleveland.com/news/local-news/cleveland-metro/new-flats-east-bank-development-is-designed-to-attract-millennials

Am I understanding this correctly?  185 Micro Apartments and NO 2 bedroom units. Hmmm. https://www.news5cleveland.com/news/local-news/cleveland-metro/new-flats-east-bank-development-is-designed-to-attract-millennials

 

From the linked News5 article:

 

"the development will feature 309 apartments, 60 percent of them will be 350 square foot studios, 5 percent convertible studios, 25 percent one bedroom units and 10 percent three bedroom units."

 

 

So it seems like there should be 30 three bedroom units.

 

It does seem a bit strange that there are studios, convertible studios, one bedroom units and then 3 bedroom units.  Seems like at least some 2 bedroom units would have made sense??

If what people have been saying on here is true, there is a glut of two bedroom units downtown. The Standard has such a lower occupancy rate compared to other buildings since it went heavy on two bedrooms. Studio and one bedrooms are more affordable and in high demand, and I don't think there are many options around at all for three bedrooms.

If what people have been saying on here is true, there is a glut of two bedroom units downtown. The Standard has such a lower occupancy rate compared to other buildings since it went heavy on two bedrooms. Studio and one bedrooms are more affordable and in high demand, and I don't think there are many options around at all for three bedrooms.

 

According to Properties Magazine the Standard Building has 281 units of which 60% are 1br.  So, that's 167 1br and 114 2br. According to the leasing site there are about 100 1br available and 32 2br available. That's makes 1 br occupancy about 43% and 2br occupancy 72%.

 

Data sources:

http://digital.propertiesmag.com/publication/?i=503886&p=&pn=#{%22issue_id%22:503886,%22page%22:0}

https://www.thestandardcle.com/

 

My feeling is that Kennect has badly overestimated the demand for micro-apartments in a part of Cleveland that doesn't attract many student residents. (Another reason to extend the Waterfront Line to CSU?)

If what people have been saying on here is true, there is a glut of two bedroom units downtown. The Standard has such a lower occupancy rate compared to other buildings since it went heavy on two bedrooms. Studio and one bedrooms are more affordable and in high demand, and I don't think there are many options around at all for three bedrooms.

 

According to Properties Magazine the Standard Building has 281 units of which 60% are 1br.  So, that's 167 1br and 114 2br. According to the leasing site there are about 100 1br available and 32 2br available. That's makes 1 br occupancy about 43% and 2br occupancy 72%.

 

Data sources:

http://digital.propertiesmag.com/publication/?i=503886&p=&pn=#{%22issue_id%22:503886,%22page%22:0}

https://www.thestandardcle.com/

 

My feeling is that Kennect has badly overestimated the demand for micro-apartments in a part of Cleveland that doesn't attract many student residents. (Another reason to extend the Waterfront Line to CSU?)

 

2 bedrooms are generally more affordable than a 1 bedroom. 1 person in a 1200$ apartment or 2 in a 1600$ apartment? Also, as a graduate student at Cleveland State I live near E. 4th and know quite a few other grad students who live further away from campus. The Warehouse District is fun, so I know a lot of people who want to live close to the bars. I think if there were more affordable options than an 1800$ 1 bedroom in the flats more students would live there. I also know a lot of students live in Lakewood or Cleveland Heights because it’s more affordable. I don’t think the flats is a terribly long commute, especially since you can walk up the hill and catch the E/C Line until 11. If a 400 square foot apartment had a walk in closet and was under 1000$ I’d be all for that. My loft “1 bedroom” is 600 sq ft at just over 800$.

I always see a lot of young adults on the 55, long before it was called the Cleveland State Line, since it runs from Lakewood to CSU. And I see quite a few young adults with moving vans every late-August/Labor Day moving into the neighborhood. This year it seemed like less, however.

I always see a lot of young adults on the 55, long before it was called the Cleveland State Line, since it runs from Lakewood to CSU. And I see quite a few young adults with moving vans every late-August/Labor Day moving into the neighborhood. This year it seemed like less, however.

 

Are you seeing less people moving into the lakewood neighborhood area or the cleveland state neighborhood area?

Responded in the housing market thread....

I always see a lot of young adults on the 55, long before it was called the Cleveland State Line, since it runs from Lakewood to CSU. And I see quite a few young adults with moving vans every late-August/Labor Day moving into the neighborhood. This year it seemed like less, however.

 

Are you seeing less people moving into the lakewood neighborhood area or the cleveland state neighborhood area?

 

I think that he’s saying less in Lakewood, which makes sense. Cleveland State has been working tirelessly to become a more traditional campus in the sense that more people live within or very nearby to campus. They no longer want to be a commuter school. They were really smart to let private developers provide student housing. The more projects we see like The Edge, I think, less students will want to live in places like Lakewood. I think that downtown is small enough too that if any truly affordable housing project arises that appeals to millennials will get CSU students. My next move is to find an apartment in the warehouse district next summer. I’d totally live in FEB P3 if they were open now.

Yes, but you didn't need to guess. I responded in the appropriate thread.

Truck mounted drill rig doing soil borings in the parking lot right now outside Punch Bowl Social...  right about the same area where foundations might go for a new building....

^ possibly environmental assessment?

Just now, freefourur said:

^ possibly environmental assessment?

all the environmental work was done a decade ago when the initial sitework for the development was done

I seem to recall that engineering data has a shelf life of about 10 years. So they may be re-verifying the data.

I think before they said once the summer season wrapped up they would begin on Phase 3.  So- now?

I thought their target was December -- which means it will be later than that.

 

Nice to see some progress on the next phase, even if it's the smaller buildings.

Like the concepts, especially the night clubs.

 

I don't know why but I was under the impression that the Phase 3 apartment building would be breaking ground soon, but it appears that at this point it is not even close to being fully financed.  I am getting to the point where  I wish a developer would not even announce a project unless financing is secured (although I guess  then we would not have much to discuss).

I actually like the style of the new buildings. It’s something different compared to the rest of the development. His comments about condos are interesting... does he mean that’s coming in a later phase ?

Some developers definitely like to get all their financing in place before announcing anything. Other developers like to announce a building project in order to attract financing. The former MO saves observers like us the disappointment from the more "risky" latter approach. Risky for us, that is. It's amazing how unemotional some developers can be. They don't seem to care if a project happens or doesn't happen as long as they don't spend too much if any money on the conceptual phase.

25 minutes ago, Htsguy said:

Like the concepts, especially the night clubs.

 

I don't know why but I was under the impression that the Phase 3 apartment building would be breaking ground soon, but it appears that at this point it is not even close to being fully financed.  I am getting to the point where  I wish a developer would not even announce a project unless financing is secured (although I guess  then we would not have much to discuss).

 

Hampton House looks like it could change the "atmosphere" of the area. And not in a good way, to me.

In what way? It doesn’t seem that much different than coastal taco to me?

^Hampton Social is pretty cool. I've been to a couple in Chicago

Wonder if this will help free up some resources for phase 3?

 

Cleveland Office Tower Receives $100M Refi

Located in the waterfront district of the city, the 23-story Ernst & Young Office Tower features 465,000 square feet of leasable space.

https://www-cpexecutive-com.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/www.cpexecutive.com/post/amp/cleveland-office-tower-receives-100m-refi/

I was surprised by the 80% LTV... I thought it would have been in the 60% range. 

Moved parking posts to the parking thread.

 

 

The Downtowner podcast Episode 09: The Rise and Fall and Rise of The Flats

Not much new information regarding FEB but an entertaining episode with Joe Cimperman & Scott Wolstein as guests.

Are there any updates on FEB Phase 3? Is this thing actually happening? When was the estimated time the project was supposed to start?

1 minute ago, CLE_Millennial said:

Are there any updates on FEB Phase 3? Is this thing actually happening? When was the estimated time the project was supposed to start?

Mentioned in the article of my previous post:
"Phase 3, which Wolstein hopes to start in earnest this year, will continue to turn the place into a neighborhood, with the addition of more apartments, office space and a movie theater."

I hope the Phase 3 delay is just enough to re-think all the blank wall space in the theater design.  No building in 2019 has to be a huge windowless bunker, not even a movie theater.   

On 12/18/2018 at 10:00 AM, jfristik said:

I was surprised by the 80% LTV... I thought it would have been in the 60% range. 

 

Building is filled with almost all Class A corporate entities, signed to long term leases.  I think it's about 90% occupied.  Of the 10% or so that is vacant, a portion is held for expansion rights of larger tenants like Tucker Ellis.   It's also the only "new" office tower in Cleveland and doesn't have a bunch of deferred maintenance like so many other buildings do

Bad News. https://www.wkyc.com/article/news/local/cleveland/rascal-flatts-withdraws-from-restaurant-project-questions-remain-on-whats-next-for-cleveland-spot/95-bc7f77b3-9901-4816-97ce-eeda675f62b3

2 minutes ago, simplythis said:

Bad News. 

 

News, at least. 

 

The take-offs of Hard Rock Cafe or Margaritaville haven't seemed to have luck locally... (thinking of Alice Cooper's restaurant on 9th, Toby Keith, now Rascal Flatts...)   I sensed Flats East Bank was attempting to be a little higher-end, so these cheesy theme franchises felt a little out-of-place to begin with.  Looking forward to what's next...

Quote

According to Ohio Secretary of State business registration filings, the company behind the restaurant chain was Nevada-based RF Restaurants, LLC. Documents showed that the authorized agent, or manager of the company, was Tawny L. Costa, who according to The Arizona Republic, is the girlfriend of an Arizona businessman named Frank Capri.

 

Capri was the head of a failed chain of restaurants branded by another country music star, Toby Keith. The newspaper's investigation sought to uncover the reasons behind the sudden failure of more than a dozen Toby Keith's I Love This Bar and Grill restaurants in several states, including a location that was planned in the East Bank of the Flats. 

 

Same owners as Toby Keith's? No wonder it never happened.

46 minutes ago, outjet said:

 

News, at least. 

 

The take-offs of Hard Rock Cafe or Margaritaville haven't seemed to have luck locally... (thinking of Alice Cooper's restaurant on 9th, Toby Keith, now Rascal Flatts...)   I sensed Flats East Bank was attempting to be a little higher-end, so these cheesy theme franchises felt a little out-of-place to begin with.  Looking forward to what's next...

 

Those types of chains are struggling all over the country. The Margaritaville in the Cincinnati casino was tragic, and thankfully closed a year or so ago. Oddly enough, I remember eating at Alice Cooper's restaurant the first time my family visited Cleveland as a kid, and I thought it was awesome. This was in the late 90s or early 2000s, though, so prime years for those themed, celebrity driven mega restaurants. 

2 hours ago, simplythis said:

Bad News. https://www.wkyc.com/article/news/local/cleveland/rascal-flatts-withdraws-from-restaurant-project-questions-remain-on-whats-next-for-cleveland-spot/95-bc7f77b3-9901-4816-97ce-eeda675f62b3

 

Was that place going to have country music? If so, thank God it didn't happen. Its not bad news--its good news!

This is an area that I wish had traditional shopping retail, to populate the area during the day time. 

Interesting. The Renaissance Center on Euclid at East 14th (originally built and still owned by Wolstein) is the subject of two recent actions. The first was on Dec. 28, 2018, involving domestic/amended restated articles of incorporation of Renaissance Center Corp., a partnership that continues to include Scott Wolstein.

 

The other is this: 

Berkadia closes $33 million loan for downtown Cleveland office building

https://www.rejournals.com/berkadia-closes-$33-million-loan-for-downtown-cleveland-office-building-20190114

 

For what purpose did Wolstein et al just raise $33 million in capital? Flats East Bank phase 3, perhaps? 

 

EDIT: the articles of incorporation for Renaissance Center Corp. were heavily amended. They no longer require at least two independent directors to manage the partnership and instead requires only one. The amendments, however, give greater authority to the shareholders of the corporation. Also, a reference to the corporation being "organized solely for the purpose of acting as a general partner of the partnership (that owns the property)" was changed -- the portion in parenthesis was removed. However, this portion was added: that the corporation "has not and will not own any subsidiary, or make any investment in, any person other than its investment in the Partnership." So while it sounds like Wolstein sold some of his 750 shares in the Renaissance Center Corp. (and took out a $33 million loan on the property), it doesn't sound like the funds (especially the mortgage) can be used for property other than that which is owned by Renaissance Center Corp. That company owns six parcels, all of them along East 14th between Euclid/Huron and Prospect. Then again, who took out the mortgage??

__________

 

EDIT2

Answer.... Wolstein (dba Renaissance Center) was released from his old open-ended $22 million mortgage on the Renaissance Center from Deutsche Bank (with pass-through securities from Royal Bank of Scotland and Wells Fargo) -- recorded on Jan. 2. No dollar amount was shown as paid for the releases. It was the same day the new, $33.2 million open-ended mortgage was recorded. But his new mortgage (from the Bank of America and prepared by a law firm in Miami) was closed Dec. 28, 2018 -- the same day his new articles of incorporation were filed with the Secretary of State. It's interesting that the mortgage is open-ended -- as if he might need more revenue to cover potential cost-overruns from a major new construction project.

Edited January 16, 20196 yr by KJP

^I have no inside info, but this seems like a pretty normal cash-out refinancing. The owner entity will just take the loan proceeds that were in excess of the payoff amount for the old mortgage and any reserves the new lender requires and distribute them to the partners.  Pretty typical way for investors to pull money out when market conditions will support higher debt. Without knowing the waterfall in the partnership agreement for capital events like this, impossible to know how much of the cash out is actually going to Wolstein vs other limited partners.

Possibly. And I'd be inclined to go all-in that this was a simple cash out if Wolstein wasn't trying to amass a $150 million capital stack to move forward with Flats phase 3. The fact that Wolstein simultaneously amended the articles for his company owning the property that was leveraged for a huge new mortgage just seemed awfully coincidental. We shall see.

 

Edit: If Renaissance Center isn't part of Wolstein's financing for Flats3, I was wondering what other significant assets owned by Wolstein could be tapped. Then, I remembered the Ernst & Young tower was refinanced only a month ago. Maybe this is the equity he will tap?... https://rebusinessonline.com/berkadia-arranges-100m-refinancing-for-ernst-young-office-building-in-downtown-cleveland/

Edited January 17, 20196 yr by KJP

On 1/16/2019 at 11:05 AM, MyPhoneDead said:

This is an area that I wish had traditional shopping retail, to populate the area during the day time. 

They should replicate what Akron did with the Northside Market - space for popup retail all under one roof. It would help build foot-traffic and retail demand, and would sure as hell go further than any number of the lame one-and-done restaurant concepts that litter this city like dead cicada shells. The restaurant market here is way over-saturated. Yes there have been wins, but the local development community needs to be more creative in this respect.

Edited January 18, 20196 yr by ASP1984

Not sure pop ups are creative or economically worthwhile for new construction.

"For God's sakes, Lemon. We'd all like to flee to the Cleve and club-hop down at the Flats and have lunch with Little Richard, but we fight those urges because we have responsibilities."

 

Restaurants rotate in and out of there on a yearly basis. Its all the Flats East Bank is. Not sure how leasing to perennially failing restaurants is somehow a better business strategy then making the effort to diversify your retail base. When Phase 3 brings more people and density, I'm sure the residents will love having a spa, nail salon, high end movie theater... and Margaritaville. Its practically New York.

 

Not talking new construction solely for the idea - just find a way to mix it in. The Northside Marketplace houses 40 tenants in a mixed format with other uses. It can be done.

Edited January 17, 20196 yr by ASP1984

Walked by Coastal Taco today and it is closed!  The place looks like it's being completely remodeled.  Anyone know anything about what might be going in its place?  I've always thought the FEB should have started with many more apartments as opposed to focusing so much on bars and restaurants. There's just not enough mouths to feed down there.  Perhaps they should have gone with a general food hall and built more apartments to actually create a self-sustaining neighborhood.  There is just so much entertainment competition downtown now that the flats has to contend with.  It's not the 1980's anymore.  

 

I hope whatever is going in doesn't, in classic Cleveland fashion, open up right after the summer.  It did look like they were making decent progress however.  

It’s just being remodeled. It’s opening back up in the spring. It didn’t close! 

On 2/2/2019 at 3:51 PM, NYC Boomerang said:

Walked by Coastal Taco today and it is closed!  The place looks like it's being completely remodeled.  Anyone know anything about what might be going in its place?  I've always thought the FEB should have started with many more apartments as opposed to focusing so much on bars and restaurants. There's just not enough mouths to feed down there.  Perhaps they should have gone with a general food hall and built more apartments to actually create a self-sustaining neighborhood.  There is just so much entertainment competition downtown now that the flats has to contend with.  It's not the 1980's anymore.  

 

I hope whatever is going in doesn't, in classic Cleveland fashion, open up right after the summer.  It did look like they were making decent progress however.  

 

I think there are not enough mouths to feed down there Monday-Thursday because if you don't live down there, or near there, you're probably not going there after work. That could change when they build phase three, and when we can get some more apartment conversions down that way. One thought is if the city started to convert its parking lot, garage facility (The Muny Lot) into a parking garage below, apartments above mixed use facility. With the Waterfront line there you'd get a lot of additional activity in those off peak times.

On 1/16/2019 at 9:56 PM, ASP1984 said:

They should replicate what Akron did with the Northside Market - space for popup retail all under one roof. It would help build foot-traffic and retail demand, and would sure as hell go further than any number of the lame one-and-done restaurant concepts that litter this city like dead cicada shells. The restaurant market here is way over-saturated. Yes there have been wins, but the local development community needs to be more creative in this respect.

 

What was the market reception to the shipping container retailers in the Warehouse District?
How often do you visit the Northside Marketplace? It's a concept that I really hoped would take off and be filled on all days of the week. That doesn't seem to be the case currently though.

5 hours ago, Mov2Ohio said:

 

I think there are not enough mouths to feed down there Monday-Thursday because if you don't live down there, or near there, you're probably not going there after work. That could change when they build phase three, and when we can get some more apartment conversions down that way. One thought is if the city started to convert its parking lot, garage facility (The Muny Lot) into a parking garage below, apartments above mixed use facility. With the Waterfront line there you'd get a lot of additional activity in those off peak times.

I agree - there’s got to be a neighborhood to sustain the restaurants and businesses that depend on a daily business - not just a weekend or event business - till we have more population down there, businesses will keep coming and not lasting. 

On 2/4/2019 at 2:14 PM, CleveFan said:

I agree - there’s got to be a neighborhood to sustain the restaurants and businesses that depend on a daily business - not just a weekend or event business - till we have more population down there, businesses will keep coming and not lasting. 

 

Correct. And they will continue to be only bars and restaurants. As more people locate to this neighborhood and those adjacent, you should see a tenant mix, similar to what you see in most strip centers/neighborhood retail centers throughout the area/country. Those with a pet store, barbershop, apparel retailer, drug store, hardware store, tailor, etc. Businesses that will thrive off that captive population's needs. Remember when the CVS on Euclid and 9th used to close at like 6 and was not open at all on the weekends? Now it stays open until 10pm and is open weekends, all because of the increased population up and down Euclid.