That punch bowl space is giant. A better use of it would be some much -needed retail to make it a true neighborhood. A bunch of smaller restaurants, a coffee shop, a juice shop, a few stores, a drug store, laundromat, etc.

Edited June 10, 20205 yr by Pugu

11 minutes ago, Pugu said:

That space is giant. A better use of it would be some much -needed retail to make it a true neighborhood. A bunch of smaller restaurants, a coffee shop, a juice shop, a few stores, a drug store, laundromat, etc.

Prime space on the river should not be used for convenience retail.   It sorely needed in the Flats (although the question from an economic standpoint is there enough density to support it at this point) but makes more sense in the Phase 3b building.

Edited June 10, 20205 yr by Htsguy

Just now, Htsguy said:

Prime space on the river should not be used for convenience retail.   It sorely needed in the Flats (although the question from an economic standpoint is there enough density at this point) but make more sense in the Phase 3b building.

On the river side of the building yes, but this faces the opposite way towards w11th. That entire street has been nothing more than a glorified valet/rideshare staging area.

 

4 minutes ago, Htsguy said:

Prime space on the river should not be used for convenience retail.   It sorely needed in the Flats (although the question from an economic standpoint is there enough density at this point) but make more sense in the Phase 3b building.

 

As  long as its somewhere.  but on the other point the punch bowl space is giant and should be broken up if not for a similar use. it would be very difficult for a single bar or restaurant to fill that space---it would be, what 800 chairs in a restaurant?  Maybe it could be an event space for live music--im not that familiar with its layout as I was only there once.

1 hour ago, downtownjoe said:

https://www.cleveland.com/entertainment/2020/03/future-of-punch-bowl-social-up-in-the-air-after-cracker-barrel-pulls-investment.html

 

Their concept was pretty much the antithesis of "social distancing", and the tendency towards the latter is likely to continue for quite some time.

More important than that is the addition of more residents.  Continuing to add more and more restaurants is fine but seems unsustainable without an increase in actual population in the area.  I'm sure the demand for smaller more affordable units such as proposed in the "Kenect" building is high... does anyone know how long that is going to be delayed??

Edited June 10, 20205 yr by mrclifton88

3 hours ago, Pugu said:

 

 

... but on the other point the punch bowl space is giant and should be broken up if not for a similar use. it would be very difficult for a single bar or restaurant to fill that space---it would be, what 800 chairs in a restaurant?   

Maybe something like a Hofbrauhaus would be good there.   I always thought Hofbrauhaus should have selected the Flats instead of Playhouse Square for their Cleveland location.

Edited June 10, 20205 yr by skiwest

1 hour ago, skiwest said:

Maybe something like a Hofbrauhaus would be good there.   I always thought Hofbrauhaus should have selected the Flats instead of Playhouse Square for their Cleveland location.

 

 

my bro has been there a few times, he likes it, but that is exactly what he said.

4 hours ago, mrclifton88 said:

More important than that is the addition of more residents.  Continuing to add more and more restaurants is fine but seems unsustainable without an increase in actual population in the area.  I'm sure the demand for smaller more affordable units such as proposed in the "Kenect" building is high... does anyone know how long that is going to be delayed??

Yeah, 400 people in only one building isn’t gonna attract any amenity based retail, especially being cut off from the rest of downtown. I’ll always hate what the Wolsteins and the City did to the east bank. But that’s whatever. Hope to see more residential density, and a parking garage. 

 

Side note. Love the scale of the new buildings. MUCH larger than I envisioned. 

Edited June 10, 20205 yr by marty15

10 hours ago, mrclifton88 said:

More important than that is the addition of more residents.  Continuing to add more and more restaurants is fine but seems unsustainable without an increase in actual population in the area.  I'm sure the demand for smaller more affordable units such as proposed in the "Kenect" building is high... does anyone know how long that is going to be delayed??

Agree 100%.  Let's keep building a completely unique residential neighborhood.  That is sustainable.  You can't force the retail and restaurants, they will follow as the neighborhood prospers. 

Edited June 11, 20205 yr by CleveFan

FWIW (not sure where it is currently) but MGK was supposed to open a coffee shop in the Archer Buildling (27 Club) which isn't exactly in the FEB complex but still, coffee is nearby. My only wish with all of this river development (and SHW moving) is boardwalk/public access throughout the entire east bank (maybe past Gateway?). Cleveland Planning/Council should require public ROW's/easements in any river developments going forward...

Edited June 13, 20205 yr by GISguy

15 hours ago, CleveFan said:

Agree 100%.  Let's keep building a completely unique residential neighborhood.  That is sustainable.  You can't force the retail and restaurants, they will follow as the neighborhood prospers. 

 

It must be both, simultaneously. Having local restaurants and coffee shops and neighborhoody things MAKES a place desirable as a place to live. THAT will drive more residents, which then will drive more retail. 

 

I wouldn't mind living next to the Cuyahoga River. But I have absolutely no interest in living in FEB Phase 2 apartments as there's no neighborhood amenities. I would only live in any place that had at least a few things I could walk to (other than fancy restaurants). And I'm sure there are hundreds of thousands who are like me. Build up a cool place and people will want to live there. Now its like a weekend/party place, not a residential neighborhood. Both efforts (residential growth and cool and supporting retail) must be done together.

^ yeah true both at the same time is best.

 

the thing about the restaurant etc structures getting built first is, don’t think of them as that. they are just spaces. they can be reconfigured to anything the new neighborhood needs later when more people are living there. it needs to be what it is now because customers are going to come there from elsewhere. but i would not expect it all to stay mainly restaurants/bars after residential fills in. 

 

at least you would hope and expect what is being built now is very open, flexible modern design inside, so it can be easily reconfigured as needed. are there any interior schematics available?

While I am pleased with phase 3A filling in the gap between Alley Cat and FWD, I wish the concept was a bit more on a contemporary style. I would have loved to have seen something similar to the Pine Pavilion located on Fire Island.  It reminds me of the surrounding bridge structures in The Flats

On 5/3/2019 at 5:58 AM, MyPhoneDead said:

Flats East Bank project moving forward with design approval of riverfront restaurants, bars

CLEVELAND, Ohio – A proposal for new riverfront restaurants and bars in the Flats will head to City Planning Commission on Friday after winning final approval, and praise, from a city design-review committee Thursday.

The latest phase of the Flats East Bank development will add two buildings with four different restaurant, bar and nightclub concepts on a chunk of land abutting the Cuyahoga River. The development site sits between Alley Cat Oyster Bar and FWD Day and Nightclub.

After a design-review committee sent the proposal back to the drawing board last month, HSB Architects returned with a plan that earned a commendation from the committee for the design evolution and how it matches the Flats’ aesthetic. The reworked design features corrugated metal facades in three hues.

https://www.cleveland.com/business/2019/05/flats-east-bank-project-moving-forward-with-design-approval-of-riverfront-restaurants-bars.html

 

Not sure where I stand on him picking this over condos though. Unless the entire condominium would have included no retail. Then this is the better move.

Does anyone know when we  moved on from the Fish Shack approval into this current iteration

I liked the very original renderings of these better than the current look- though there was an iteration in between that was worse. I’m hoping it’ll be a case where these look nicer in person than in a rendering. 

7 hours ago, dave2017 said:

While I am pleased with phase 3A filling in the gap between Alley Cat and FWD, I wish the concept was a bit more on a contemporary style. I would have loved to have seen something similar to the Pine Pavilion located on Fire Island.  It reminds me of the surrounding bridge structures in The Flats

 

That looks fantastic. If only Wolstein had the money and desire for something that creative. Here's what phase 3 will look like, since It's been a while since these were posted.

 

 

 

 

That design doesn’t say “restaurants and bars” - to me - at first glance, I thought maybe they were townhouses - the design shared by @dave2017 in Fire Island is much more attractive IMHO.  Oh well - it’s development-maybe it will look much better than its rendering. 

Edited June 12, 20205 yr by CleveFan

I still love this design. Pays homage to the industrial past in a "non-disney" way. To the untrained eye, someone me even mistake it for adaptive reuse (at least the river side of the buildings)

As I recall, those are all "garage doors" along the boardwalk which can be opened when the weather is suitable.

I like the design. The riverfront/boardwalk energey will be great. Now we just need to build up the west bank more and extend the boardwalk more.

14 hours ago, dave2017 said:

While I am pleased with phase 3A filling in the gap between Alley Cat and FWD, I wish the concept was a bit more on a contemporary style. I would have loved to have seen something similar to the Pine Pavilion located on Fire Island.  It reminds me of the surrounding bridge structures in The Flats

Very nice architectually, but unless it has changed since I last took the ferry over, Fire Island-Cherry Grove/The Pines caters to an entirely different clientele vs FEB.

The current design does have somewhat of an "industrial" feel to it, that does make it compatible with the Flats.

Edited June 13, 20205 yr by Frmr CLEder

Whoa! Seeing these things in person really puts into scale how large this development is. It totally changes the look and feel of this end of the boardwalk!!

Edited June 12, 20205 yr by urbanetics_

thx for reposting the renders.

 

are there any floor plans or anything someone can post?  they should be available. 

 

i am not sure how durable that is, but i like the looks of all of it.

 

and i love the outdoor terraces on the buildings and the open waterfront space possibilities.

 

the sides that face opposite the riverfront are a very nice mix too.

 

i would say mission accomplished for this from the armchair observer standpoint, so good for them!

We’ll have a decently developed east bank riverfront all the way up Old River Rd. Minus one parking lot. Just need to build up behind. And for @kjp to feed us more West Bank news ?

3 hours ago, marty15 said:

We’ll have a decently developed east bank riverfront all the way up Old River Rd. Minus one parking lot. Just need to build up behind. And for @kjp to feed us more West Bank news ?

 

I thought I had a big story about the West Bank earlier this week but it was a false alarm. Glad I didn't pull the tease alarm here!

Totally random and I’ll probably get more thumbs down shockingly but are there any plans to relight up the bridges? 

I  wish they would re light them. I know there was a plan to do so a few years ago but prob budget problems 

11 hours ago, PAZUZU said:

Totally random and I’ll probably get more thumbs down shockingly but are there any plans to relight up the bridges? 

Seriously. I don’t know why this would be difficult or expensive. All the infrastructure/wiring etc., should still be in place.

Plus LED makes the cost of keeping the lights on very inexpensive. Come on Cleveland. Lighting the bridges is a big bang for very little bucks.

18 hours ago, marty15 said:

We’ll have a decently developed east bank riverfront all the way up Old River Rd. Minus one parking lot. Just need to build up behind. And for @kjp to feed us more West Bank news ?

At least north of Main Ave bridge. South is still the old east bank.

Another perspective farther down the river to really show off the massive scale of this new phase.

I never noticed they are built to be in-line with Alley Cat's first and second story heights.  Or at least it looks like it from here.

2 hours ago, mrclifton88 said:

I never noticed they are built to be in-line with Alley Cat's first and second story heights.  Or at least it looks like it from here.

They'll definitely be taller. Considering they have three stories and pointed roofs.

The river looks so clean and inviting. Can't underestimate the turnaround of the river has on this area

13 hours ago, HGRHS said:

The river looks so clean and inviting. Can't underestimate the turnaround of the river has on this area

UO Group Swim! lol I kid.

On 6/10/2020 at 12:42 PM, mrclifton88 said:

More important than that is the addition of more residents.  Continuing to add more and more restaurants is fine but seems unsustainable without an increase in actual population in the area.  I'm sure the demand for smaller more affordable units such as proposed in the "Kenect" building is high... does anyone know how long that is going to be delayed??

 

In a gloom-and-doom opinion piece in today's WSJ on the future of the urban boom of the last ten years, the author said people felt almost trapped when quarantined in tiny apartments. It seemed like the most reasonable assertion in the whole article, but the author didn't offer any data.  Still, I get the "trapped" feeling.  Wolstein may be rethinking his Kennect micro-apartment plan.

 

The unjustifiably gloomy article:

https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-coming-urban-exodus-11592435672?mod=opinion_featst_pos1

 

 

25 minutes ago, Dougal said:

 

In a gloom-and-doom opinion piece in today's WSJ on the future of the urban boom of the last ten years, the author said people felt almost trapped when quarantined in tiny apartments. It seemed like the most reasonable assertion in the whole article, but the author didn't offer any data.  Still, I get the "trapped" feeling.  Wolstein may be rethinking his Kennect micro-apartment plan.

 

The unjustifiably gloomy article:

https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-coming-urban-exodus-11592435672?mod=opinion_featst_pos1

 

 

 

I can see a minor exodus from NYC as work-at-home has taught employers and employees they don't need to pay higher wages and rents to live in the city.  But I don't think Cleveland will see much change other than by rank and file who live in Brecksville, Brunswick, Avon Lake, etc and have been fighting against commuting downtown for any reason for decades.  

31 minutes ago, Dougal said:

 

In a gloom-and-doom opinion piece in today's WSJ on the future of the urban boom of the last ten years, the author said people felt almost trapped when quarantined in tiny apartments. It seemed like the most reasonable assertion in the whole article, but the author didn't offer any data.  Still, I get the "trapped" feeling.  Wolstein may be rethinking his Kennect micro-apartment plan.

 

The unjustifiably gloomy article:

https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-coming-urban-exodus-11592435672?mod=opinion_featst_pos1

 

 

 

I honestly don't get the appeal of microapartments unless they're located directly next to effective public transit, green space, a university, or a lively urban core where you want to spend all of your down time. Not that Cleveland can't get there, but I don't see the Flats or Warehouse District becoming that type of space until at least Settlers Landing or Irishtown Bend are complete. This concept always felt a little off to me.

Edited June 18, 20204 yr by ASP1984

I've seen no evidence that microapartments are on the way out. In fact, if some redmediation issues can get worked out in the next couple of weeks, you'll hear of a rather large micro-apartments project.

9 minutes ago, KJP said:

I've seen no evidence that microapartments are on the way out. In fact, if some redmediation issues can get worked out in the next couple of weeks, you'll hear of a rather large micro-apartments project.

I agree! Most people I know who were in tiny apartments did things like move back in with their parents for a while (if they were single) or spend a couple of weeks with their parents or siblings to get out of it all. I think this will only be a problem if we have more shutdowns. One isn’t enough to derail micro apartments like Kinect (IMO). 

21 hours ago, urbanetics_ said:

Another perspective farther down the river to really show off the massive scale of this new phase.

 

Probably really late to the game on this one, but when did they paint the shoreway bridge?

18 minutes ago, MissinOhio said:

 

Probably really late to the game on this one, but when did they paint the shoreway bridge?

 

I may be wrong on this, I don't think there's been a major renovation since the 1990's.  

19 hours ago, ASPhotoman said:

They'll definitely be taller. Considering they have three stories and pointed roofs.

 For reference / comparison based on current construction.

1 hour ago, Cleburger said:

 

I may be wrong on this, I don't think there's been a major renovation since the 1990's.  

 

It just looks like a darker blue.  I like it.

2 hours ago, MissinOhio said:

 

Probably really late to the game on this one, but when did they paint the shoreway bridge?

I believe a couple years ago they did that. Well more like 5 to 6 years ago it was repainted. Large tarps covered the sections they were working on.

Main Avenue bridge repainting and renovation was completed in 2018. It’s pretty fresh paint.

View of the new builds from the top of FEB apartment building last night. 

Looks like Punch Bowl Social isn't closing after all.  This article says its reopening on July 13:

 

https://fox8.com/news/coronavirus/punch-bowl-social-reopening-july-13-in-the-flats/

Can’t remember if this was discussed as part of FEB or WHD...I’ll put it here though since technically this space is more part of the Flats.

 

Good to see this project still moving along! Although I wonder how the whole club aspect of it will be, if anything for now, given the current situation. Tough time for this type of concept to be opening, but hopefully they can adapt and make something work in the meantime!