August 25, 20204 yr 7 hours ago, KJP said: It's hurt the Aloft hotel which is the subject of Fitch's loans of concern. I mentioned that in an article last spring and that it hasn't been a strong performer before the pandemic. But if what @YABO713 experienced is common (see the prior page of this thread), then at least some of the restaurants are doing well. The article I just posted in the hotels and conventions thread focuses on New York, but I'm sure will apply here in Cleveland as well... ?
August 25, 20204 yr 12 hours ago, Larry1962 said: The Cleveland - Cuyahoga County Port Authority provided approximately $ 110 Million Dollars of financing for the $ 250 Million Dollar first phase of the Flats East Bank development. And so they own that property as collateral until the lease bonds are paid off. Right, so why are taxes being assessed to a publicly owned parcel/structure?
August 25, 20204 yr 1 hour ago, PoshSteve said: Right, so why are taxes being assessed to a publicly owned parcel/structure? My understanding would be that the port authority does not "own" the property but does have a lien on it.
September 9, 20204 yr Author I figured they'd want to get them enclosed before winter and then work inside during winter, right? "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
September 26, 20204 yr On 9/9/2020 at 2:38 PM, urbanetics_ said: Aaand more progress! A little different perspective for this update! I never realized how much these new buildings stand out / can be seen from the Superior Viaduct.
September 29, 20204 yr the last two shots look like its getting a little bit netherlandsy waterfront around there
October 8, 20204 yr Some interesting updates on Wolstein’s Flats East Bank developments were shared via this afternoon’s DCA “Downtown Living” webinar. In particular, Wolstein stated that he hopes to break ground soon on the next building, the mixed-use micro-apartment/office/retail building (now sans cinema and with a refreshed and better design, IMO). FWD will also operate a country music bar / nightclub in one of the new restaurants currently u see construction. There are also updated massings and renderings for the whole FEB development. Wolstein sounds pretty bullish about developing downtown and adding residential units - all in all, very interesting, and I’m glad to hear he still has a strong vision for this neighborhood and hopes to continue on with the next phase sooner than later! Edited October 8, 20204 yr by urbanetics_
October 8, 20204 yr ^Whoa ?.. now that is the type of density I like to see. Good to see Wolstein is still working to make the future phases a reality.
October 8, 20204 yr 10 minutes ago, urbanetics_ said: Some interesting updates on Wolstein’s Flats East Bank developments were shared via this afternoon’s DCA “Downtown Living” webinar. In particular, Wolstein stated that he hopes to break ground soon on the next building, the mixed-use micro-apartment/office/retail building (now sans cinema and with a refreshed and better design, IMO). FWD will also operate a country music bar / nightclub in one of the new restaurants currently u see construction. There are also updated massings and renderings for the whole FEB development. Wolstein sounds pretty bullish about developing downtown and adding residential units - all in all, very interesting, and I’m glad to hear he still has a strong vision for this neighborhood and hopes to continue on with the next phase sooner than later! Did his presentation address the accessibility issues that plague the East Bank?
October 8, 20204 yr I have to imagine that FWD and Margaritaville are in those renderings primarily as a nicety. I bet by the time those apt towers that are shown are built, they will be on the chopping block for a couple more.
October 8, 20204 yr Very nice. We will see though. I am disappointed though by the loss of a theater. The loss of Tower City Cinemas leaves a void in the market downtown, and the original proposal was for one line Silverspot in Pinecrest (full service restaurant in the theaters), which has been extremely popular. I think those types of full service boutique theaters are going to be the future in the industry after covid. Perhaps this will open the door to one in Playhouse Square in the future.
October 8, 20204 yr This is great to hear. I really hope Scott can pull it off. KJP already made my day by posting in another thread that there are 2 propective tenants sniffing around Nucleus. So like Nucleus this would would be Iteration 3 or 4 for phase 3B. And now a glimpse into phase 4. Wow maybe Bob Stark & Scott Wolstein are related OR maybe they should partner together and do a project together . He He He - Just kidding
October 8, 20204 yr 11 minutes ago, PoshSteve said: Very nice. We will see though. I am disappointed though by the loss of a theater. The loss of Tower City Cinemas leaves a void in the market downtown, and the original proposal was for one line Silverspot in Pinecrest (full service restaurant in the theaters), which has been extremely popular. I think those types of full service boutique theaters are going to be the future in the industry after covid. Perhaps this will open the door to one in Playhouse Square in the future. it's not the same, but they are supposed to start doing cult movies at the Masonic Temple.
October 8, 20204 yr 3 hours ago, X said: I have to imagine that FWD and Margaritaville are in those renderings primarily as a nicety. I bet by the time those apt towers that are shown are built, they will be on the chopping block for a couple more. I hope not
October 9, 20204 yr In the presentation they labeled the riverfront restaurants currently under construction as Phase 3A. Next up on the list they have is 3B which would include ~1800 apartment units, coworking/office space, townhomes, and a bunch more retail, all for an approx cost of $550 million. I know it'll likely end up being broken up into more phases, but that would be absolutely insane to see all under development at once.
October 9, 20204 yr 1 hour ago, tykaps said: In the presentation they labeled the riverfront restaurants currently under construction as Phase 3A. Next up on the list they have is 3B which would include ~1800 apartment units, coworking/office space, townhomes, and a bunch more retail, all for an approx cost of $550 million. I know it'll likely end up being broken up into more phases, but that would be absolutely insane to see all under development at once. Yes That would be insane. I am just hoping the original phase 3b - Kennect Cleveland gets built. Is Kennect still in the picture?
October 9, 20204 yr Author 7 hours ago, simplythis said: Yes That would be insane. I am just hoping the original phase 3b - Kennect Cleveland gets built. Is Kennect still in the picture? Yes. I'll have an article about it today. "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
October 9, 20204 yr Anyone know who owns the plot north of the RR tracks and within the loop of the Waterfront Line? Does it have any proposed uses since Eaton?
October 9, 20204 yr Author 41 minutes ago, urb-a-saurus said: Anyone know who owns the plot north of the RR tracks and within the loop of the Waterfront Line? Does it have any proposed uses since Eaton? Port authority "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
October 9, 20204 yr Author FRIDAY, OCTOBER 9, 2020 Flats East Bank to begin massive expansion in early 2021 Developer Scott Wolstein announced that he plans a tentative "early 2021" groundbreaking for an 11-story mixed-use building on Flats East Bank. But future phases could bring the total as many as a half-dozen residential towers with thousands of residential units in the downtown waterfront district. The next phase of development, which Wolstein as CEO of the Wolstein Group has been pursuing with Chicago-based Akara Partners, is a building featuring apartments along West 11th Street between Main Avenue and Front Street called Kenect Cleveland. Kenect is Akara's brand of development products. MORE: https://neo-trans.blogspot.com/2020/10/flats-east-bank-to-begin-massive-new.html Edited October 9, 20204 yr by KJP "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
October 9, 20204 yr KJP will the latest 3b iteration change substantially or minimally because the theater is no longer in the picture?
October 9, 20204 yr Author 3 minutes ago, simplythis said: KJP will the latest 3b iteration change substantially or minimally because the theater is no longer in the picture? Appears to be minimal. The building appears to be one story shorter and the northern flank of the development appears to be less imposing. "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
October 9, 20204 yr Weirdly enough, I think now would actually have been a good time to build a theater. So many are closing, but one would think theater demand should be back up to pre-pandemic levels in a couple years so the surviving ones should be a bit better off. But anyway, it's amazing this is going forward. Love the micro apartments too. Let's pack 'em in there until we have the second biggest downtown population in the midwest.
October 9, 20204 yr Great news @KJP! The overall site plan would be great if it's fully realized. At this point I'm just hoping for the Kenect phase to be built- which would be a great addition. And... "Wolstein reportedly is involved in the embryonic stages of another downtown Cleveland mixed-use tower, this time in the Warehouse District near the site of the planned Sherwin-Williams headquarters. In contrast to the Flats East Bank development's next phases, he refused to comment on the tower."
October 9, 20204 yr 11 minutes ago, LlamaLawyer said: Weirdly enough, I think now would actually have been a good time to build a theater. So many are closing, but one would think theater demand should be back up to pre-pandemic levels in a couple years so the surviving ones should be a bit better off. But anyway, it's amazing this is going forward. Love the micro apartments too. Let's pack 'em in there until we have the second biggest downtown population in the midwest. Anyone know what the full list is? I can't find a single source but I think Chicago, Minneapolis, and Indy are all ahead of us currently. Couldn't find a source for Chicago, but google says ~50k and ~30k for Minny/Indy.
October 9, 20204 yr ^If we can build an average of 1500-2000 units per year, we'll be past 30k in no time. And looking at other metros, the amount of folks who live downtown is more than 1% of the folks who live in their region. If Cleveland/Akron/Canton is still at 3.5 Million, the region may still be able to gain 10,000 or more downtown. Our downtown is sorely missing for-sale units. I'm hoping that the next 10,000 includes more for-sale units than we've gotten in the past. Edited October 9, 20204 yr by Oldmanladyluck
October 9, 20204 yr 51 minutes ago, LlamaLawyer said: Weirdly enough, I think now would actually have been a good time to build a theater. So many are closing, but one would think theater demand should be back up to pre-pandemic levels in a couple years so the surviving ones should be a bit better off. But anyway, it's amazing this is going forward. Love the micro apartments too. Let's pack 'em in there until we have the second biggest downtown population in the midwest. As more features that are associated with the suburbs, such as a movie theatre, are easily accessible downtown, the desirability of living there will just continue to increase. I know movie theatres have been brutally affected by the current health crisis, but I firmly believe there will be a post-Covid time when movie going returns. Perhaps seating design can improve to produce a safer, more sanitary experience without debilitating cost increases - but the main point is that the livability of the downtown core is something we can reimagine and work to improve. Hopefully, new units for sale will become available in attractive settings that are yet to be built. I feel like there’s a new generation that sees the potential of downtown Cleveland to be a fantastic place to call home. When you look at relative costs of living and the availability of world class culture, dining and entertainment, Cleveland has a somewhat unique portfolio to offer.
October 9, 20204 yr KJP - you mentioned in another thread ( random developments ) earlier this week that a Undisclosed developer that builds 30 story building is looking to build a commercial bldg. You would not disclose who it is other than SHW Spin-off And Today - And... "Wolstein reportedly is involved in the embryonic stages of another downtown Cleveland mixed-use tower, this time in the Warehouse District near the site of the planned Sherwin-Williams headquarters. In contrast to the Flats East Bank development's next phases, he refused to comment on the tower." Is the Undisclosed developer Scott Wolstein?
October 9, 20204 yr 24 minutes ago, roman totale XVII said: This is new, right?? Where is this in FEB?
October 9, 20204 yr 49 minutes ago, roman totale XVII said: This is new, right?? Would this be WKNR? I think they are still broadcasting out of their location at the Galleria that they moved to ~15 years ago. Just found this on a marketing companies website: https://goodkarmabrands.com/cleveland-contest/espn-clevelands-new-home-contest-presented-by-union-home-mortgage/ "ESPN Cleveland is moving! Before we move in to our new home we have to clean out our old one! Take a walk down memory lane with us as we clean out The Galleria, a place we’ve called home for over a decade! We are giving fans the chance to take home unique items from our space. ... The ESPN Cleveland move to our new home is presented by Union Home Mortgage."
October 9, 20204 yr not sure of the setup in the galleria.... but it seems like you should be able to see the studio through the windows.... if so, I like it....
October 10, 20204 yr 35 minutes ago, Frmr CLEder said: ^ A sports radio station or a sports bar, similar to the former ESPN Zones? Sports radio station. Not retail.
October 10, 20204 yr I don’t know what it is, but watching people talk to a microphone has a weird magnetic attraction to it...the WGN studio in Chicago always draws a crowd. I’d say/hope this will have a similar effect.
October 10, 20204 yr Interesting! I actually like this, a different use of space instead of just another bar or restaurant. Adds a little uniqueness to the area.
October 10, 20204 yr 2 hours ago, mrclifton88 said: Interesting! I actually like this, a different use of space instead of just another bar or restaurant. Adds a little uniqueness to the area. I LOVE IT. Its real “big city”. I wish the rest of our local media was more creative with their locations and location designs
October 28, 20204 yr Sorry to link to my twitter, but low on space in here (need to wipe out some high res photos from a while back). Either way, FEB is really coming together. Edited October 28, 20204 yr by GISguy
October 29, 20204 yr ^ Love seeing the line of voters in front of the BOE, exercising their right to vote! Edited October 29, 20204 yr by Frmr CLEder
October 29, 20204 yr On 10/9/2020 at 3:37 PM, Oldmanladyluck said: ^If we can build an average of 1500-2000 units per year, we'll be past 30k in no time. Hate to be Debbie Downer here, but ... One of the civic organizations (GCP?) has said the downtown absorbtion rate is 500 units a year. The spurt of deliveries lately is why occupancy has fallen into the 80's. There is probably more than 500 well advanced in the pipeline now. Adding a bunch more units should probably wait a year or two, unless a big pop in downtown employment occurs. Remember: It's the Year of the Snake
October 29, 20204 yr ^Well yes- we've had The Lumen, May Company, The Bacon ( 🙂 ) CAC, etc. all come online at around the same time. Then there's the The Avenue (under construction), the Huntington Building, and the new apartment building across the street on Euclid which will be under construction soon. For a market Cleveland's size, that's a large number of units to absorb. However, developers have pretty much used up most of the conversions from office to apartments. We'll be seeing more new builds of apartments (and hopefully condos) in the future. I don't think getting to 30,000 will take long for downtown.
October 29, 20204 yr 23 minutes ago, Dougal said: Hate to be Debbie Downer here, but ... One of the civic organizations (GCP?) has said the downtown absorbtion rate is 500 units a year. The spurt of deliveries lately is why occupancy has fallen into the 80's. There is probably more than 500 well advanced in the pipeline now. Adding a bunch more units should probably wait a year or two, unless a big pop in downtown employment occurs. Probably more like 2000 units under construction or breaking ground in the near future if you count neighborhoods like Ohio City, Detroit/Shoreway, Tremont, Little Italy,, Larchmere and University Circle since they attract the same demographic as downtown and compete for those renters. Probably should throw in the nearly 300 units at Top of the Hill as well since it right on the border with Cleveland and again probably attracts a similar type of renter that might consider downtown.
October 29, 20204 yr 36 minutes ago, Dougal said: Hate to be Debbie Downer here, but ... One of the civic organizations (GCP?) has said the downtown absorbtion rate is 500 units a year. The spurt of deliveries lately is why occupancy has fallen into the 80's. There is probably more than 500 well advanced in the pipeline now. Adding a bunch more units should probably wait a year or two, unless a big pop in downtown employment occurs. The more people who live downtown, the better living in downtown becomes. Which, in turn, attracts even more people to live downtown. This is a VERY positive feedback loop for what is far and away the fastest growing neighborhood in northeast Ohio. And considering that the percentage of people in the metro region who live in downtown Cleveland is still FAR lower than most metro areas, there is plenty of local population to continue to feed this downtown growth trend. When is the last time I-71 turned a profit?
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