Music Box cam (rockthelake)

15 minutes ago, freethink said:

Music Box cam (rockthelake)

Judging by the gulls, looks like a freighter just went through lol

despite the pic quality lol, that site is really coming along and looking great. 

The scale is a lot larger than I envisioned. It has a surprisingly good presence from the water also. Now let’s fill that massive void between there and Aloft.

These have QUITE the impressive pedestrian presence along the boardwalk. I absolutely love it.

 

The zero setback, abundance of windows/balconies/rooftops, and dense yet human scale architecture will create a very lively and engaging northern segment of the boardwalk.

Thinking back to warmer days...ok this was yesterday from the webcam. I had to wait for the paddlers to hit the right spot :)

Worth following this, especially if we want to see Phase 3 happen. I know Wolstein says the TIF extension doesn't correlate to the development of later phases, but if this project and Wolstein's access to capital becomes more liquid because of the TIF extension, it has to help the development of later phases....

 

 

 

 

We have got to vote in more competent leaders!

 

I heard that the new phase may be open by May - is that true?? 

Columbus is the last place that needs to be providing TIFs. An ever growing city and region needs tax incentives for development along the freeways? lol ok

14 hours ago, AsDustinFoxWouldSay said:

. . . TIFs. An ever growing city and region . . .

 

Sometimes it happens in that order. Which is why this Flats East Bank TIF is so exciting if we want to live in a growing city without moving.

Crain's has a great story on FEB 60 year TIF. https://www.crainscleveland.com/real-estate/cleveland-city-council-approves-rare-60-year-tif-deal-flats-east-bank

34 minutes ago, simplythis said:

Crain's has a great story on FEB 60 year TIF. https://www.crainscleveland.com/real-estate/cleveland-city-council-approves-rare-60-year-tif-deal-flats-east-bank

Cannot view the article so if it answers this question.....somewhat confused by all of this.  Was this action taken simply to prevent the developer from defaulting on its original loans for the first part of the project or will this action in some way help jump start future phases (or at least phase 3b)?

12 minutes ago, Htsguy said:

Cannot view the article so if it answers this question.....somewhat confused by all of this.  Was this action taken simply to prevent the developer from defaulting on its original loans for the first part of the project or will this action in some way help jump start future phases (or at least phase 3b)?

 

Both. Here's a paraphrase and a quote from the article.....

 

David Ebersole, the city's economic development director, told council members that the only alternative to a TIF extension would be taking legal action against the developer. That approach would forestall additional development and imperil a high-profile project that served as a proving ground for Cleveland's ability to remake its waterfront.

"If we don't do this, the next phases will never occur." --Councilman Tony Brancatelli
 

A building permit is listed for the Phase 3 buildings now under construction. 800k for 6700 sq ft on three levels. HSB is the architect.

 

Jade Asian Fusion
New interior build-out in an existing cold-dark shell building for a new 3 story restaurant. Scope to include all new partitions, MEP systems, kitchen equipment and finishes. No exterior work to the building shell.

Great pics!! 

 

^ for another thing i see it seems to look exactly like they said it would. thats not always the case.

On 12/29/2020 at 3:15 PM, urbanetics_ said:

Great pics!! 

 

Does anybody remember what restaurants/venues were gonna be in these things 

Nope.  Why don't you look back through the last few pages here and find that for us? 😉

On 12/29/2020 at 3:15 PM, urbanetics_ said:

Great pics!! 

 

 

I love how they maintain the public walkway, our riverfront isn't quite the same as Pittsburgh's but (for the most part) they do a good job of embracing the waterfront. I've said it before but every property on the river should have a public easement/ROW, imagine not having to hop up to the road and be able to ride from here up (and past) Merwin's Warf. I know the Towpath coming together is helping with this but no reason why we can't have two trails near each other :)

10 hours ago, GISguy said:

 

I love how they maintain the public walkway, our riverfront isn't quite the same as Pittsburgh's but (for the most part) they do a good job of embracing the waterfront. I've said it before but every property on the river should have a public easement/ROW, imagine not having to hop up to the road and be able to ride from here up (and past) Merwin's Warf. I know the Towpath coming together is helping with this but no reason why we can't have two trails near each other :)

 

I posted this before, but...

 

 

These new riverfront buildings really have an impressive presence along the boardwalk despite their height. It looks a lot more dense and imposing in pictures than in the renders. Still, seems hard to get a proper continuous waterfront boardwalk without cooperation (or incentives) for business/landowners. But you'd think people would want foot traffic 🙄

^I agree, I always feel like the water facing side of the buildings have such a unique look that is pretty much hidden unless you have a boat.

 

I've heard Wolstein's son is working on opening a wine bar in the new phase - but haven't been able to confirm

On 12/31/2020 at 3:30 PM, infrafreak said:

 

I posted this before, but...

 

 

These new riverfront buildings really have an impressive presence along the boardwalk despite their height. It looks a lot more dense and imposing in pictures than in the renders. Still, seems hard to get a proper continuous waterfront boardwalk without cooperation (or incentives) for business/landowners. But you'd think people would want foot traffic 🙄

 

For that section the public access "boardwalk" could simply go along the front of these buildings. Somewhere on this site, or maybe lost to crashes is a very amateurish photoshop attempt at how that would work.  

 

Cannot read the article.  Is that version three?

I for one hope it looks different. That design is about as generic as it gets. You're competing with other residential units in the urban core. A great location is not enough. An exciting design coupled with a great street presence could help ensure a full building. 

6 minutes ago, Sapper Daddy said:

 

 

4 minutes ago, Htsguy said:

Cannot read the article.  Is that version three?

I don’t know what revision number it is, but I thought this is probably the most relevant part of the article:

 

“Wolstein and Akara unveiled preliminary plans for the building, called Kenect Cleveland, in mid-2018. At that time, the designs showed a 12-story tower largely filled with micro-units — most of them 350-square-foot studios — with a movie theater and ground-floor retail.

Since then, the developers have scrapped the theater. And they're sketching out more traditional apartments, with studios that might range from 500 to 600 square feet, for example, and one-bedroom units around 700 square feet.

The revised building is likely to be shorter, Wolstein said, and will include about 20,000 square feet of restaurants, entertainment venues and, perhaps, neighborhood-focused retail such as a salon or spa.”

 

Interesting that Crain's didn't post any of the new renderings of Phase 3B. NEOtrans did -- three months ago!!

https://neo-trans.blogspot.com/2020/10/flats-east-bank-to-begin-massive-new.html

 

 

It does look like the design has changed a bit (again) since the ones you posted, though.

13 minutes ago, cadmen said:

I for one hope it looks different. That design is about as generic as it gets. You're competing with other residential units in the urban core. A great location is not enough. An exciting design coupled with a great street presence could help ensure a full building. 

This is Cleveland.  Bland and boring is usually all we get.

Edited January 7, 20214 yr by skiwest

7 minutes ago, X said:

It does look like the design has changed a bit (again) since the ones you posted, though.

 

What pictures are you looking at? If you're referring to the one posted by SapperDaddy, that's an old image.

1 minute ago, KJP said:

 

What pictures are you looking at? If you're referring to the one posted by SapperDaddy, that's an old image.

That’s good news, I much prefer the design posted in the NEOTrans article.  Shame on me for thinking Akara would have updated images on their website 😂

Ah, so yours are the most recent known renderings, then?

Any idea why they are not pursuing the TMUD?  Since they are shorter than 15 stories they don't qualify and this seems like a great project to pursue for the new tax credit.

26 minutes ago, X said:

Ah, so yours are the most recent known renderings, then?

 

Yes

 

19 minutes ago, cle_guy90 said:

Any idea why they are not pursuing the TMUD?  Since they are shorter than 15 stories they don't qualify and this seems like a great project to pursue for the new tax credit.

 

The additional buildings north of Front Street probably will seek the TMUD. Based on the mass renderings, they are at least 15 stories tall and probably measuring more than 350,000 square feet if connected to each other.

Viewing the rendering in @KJP blog post...I wish they could jazz up the building doorways in some manner.  Right now they look like the entrance to a medical building in Beachwood.

Just now, Htsguy said:

Viewing the rendering in @KJP blog post...I wish they could jazz up the building doorways in some manner.  Right now they look like the entrance to a medical building in Beachwood.

 

To be fair, the renderings are just glorified massings. I wouldn't try to learn anything from them except the scale of what Akara/Wolstein have in mind.

Wish we could get “the later phase” first - as of the last “massing” we got - that looked more substantial and more exciting. I think the move to slightly larger studios, as opposed to micro apartments will work better for Cleveland, particularly in a world that’s now been rocked by a pandemic. That’s particularly if rental costs are kept reasonable.  I also hope the eventual details show a slightly more edgy design mindset, perhaps more in the direction of City Club.  I think the Flats wants to be playful. 

I'm kinda bummed the theaters got knocked out of the plans. I know the industry is in the dumps right now, but I think by time this opens, it will have bounced back with unmet demand based on the numbers closing down now. Add in that Tower City Theaters is closing too and you have an entirely unserved and growing market here. Maybe we will see a Playhouse Square theater in a second Lumen a few years down the road.

2 hours ago, PoshSteve said:

I'm kinda bummed the theaters got knocked out of the plans. I know the industry is in the dumps right now, but I think by time this opens, it will have bounced back with unmet demand based on the numbers closing down now. Add in that Tower City Theaters is closing too and you have an entirely unserved and growing market here. Maybe we will see a Playhouse Square theater in a second Lumen a few years down the road.

 

That's the location where it makes most sense to have movie theaters imho. Getting in/out of the FEB still seems chaotic and time consuming venture for most people. 

I'm not sure of the future of movie theaters. Studios may decide to just continue to release movies directly to streaming services even when the pandemic ends. Who knows how this shakes out.

4 hours ago, freefourur said:

I'm not sure of the future of movie theaters. Studios may decide to just continue to release movies directly to streaming services even when the pandemic ends. Who knows how this shakes out.

 

When I interviewed Wolstein for my Flats East Bank article in October, he dismissed movie theaters as a going concern for the foreseeable future.

11 hours ago, freefourur said:

I'm not sure of the future of movie theaters. Studios may decide to just continue to release movies directly to streaming services even when the pandemic ends. Who knows how this shakes out.

It would be interesting to see a play on a mini Drive-In theater in the Flats. In Miami, empty urban lots are being turned into smaller screen, mini-urban Drive-In theaters that accomodate about 25-50 vehicles, including outdoor seating areas.

Edited January 8, 20214 yr by Frmr CLEder

On 1/8/2021 at 7:38 AM, Frmr CLEder said:

It would be interesting to see a play on a mini Drive-In theater in the Flats. In Miami, empty urban lots are being turned into smaller screen, mini-urban Drive-In theaters that accomodate about 25-50 vehicles, including outdoor seating areas.

I have to disagree with this idea. Especially for the flats. Reserving parking lots for some nighttime movies seems to me to contradict density, street interaction and walkable areas.

I would propose having the  movie nights at Edgewater Beach. This way people could walk, bike, use public transit or drive if they prefer. Similar to the Thursday Edgewater party in the park with the bands And food trucks.

^ So you do without downtown movie theaters.

 

There's plenty of vacant lots in FWB, that could be used year round, not just the summer months. No developer will be willing to invest in indoor theaters until this pandemic is under control, if ever. COVID-19, is the first of what will inevitably be many zoonotic pandemics to come.

 

I know, reality can suck, but it is reality and sooner or later you have to face the facts.

Edited January 30, 20214 yr by Frmr CLEder

FEB would a great spot for an alamo drafthouse/living room theaters type offering IMO. I think your typical AMCs/Regals now are largely best suited to the suburbs though.

4 hours ago, snakebite said:

FEB would a great spot for an alamo drafthouse/living room theaters type offering IMO. I think your typical AMCs/Regals now are largely best suited to the suburbs though.

 

Agreed - that's basically what had been proposed. Not your standard Regal/AMC, but one of the boutique chain theaters like Silverspot at Pinecrest. After the pandemic demand for theaters won't be zero, though I'm sure it will be reduced. These types of full service theater/restaurants are where that reduced demand is going to go, and I think its short sighted that FEB is going to be passing it up.

^ i read fauci said theaters could be ok by this fall hopefully.